In August 1928 he writes his grandparents,
“...it's not disobedience to not keep the Sabbath. The Sabbath is not necessary for salvation.”
In September 1928, Herbert Armstrong's article "The Sabbath, a Perpetual Covenant, was published in "The Bible Advocate".
submitted by SHT
This is Misleadinng. I can't find it that he said that. Bunch of Liars.
ReplyDeleteWCG was a scumbag-led cult, but GCI is just as bad if not worse. Little Joey neglected to change the two worst features of WCG, the autocratic leadership and the easy willingness to lie to the members. Because of this, he created a useless church that serves no one other than his buddies. There are thousands of healthier church options than GCI.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous said...
ReplyDelete"This is Misleadinng. I can't find it that he said that. Bunch of Liars."
Oh ye of little understanding.
MB
It is interesting to note, that within just a year of coming into the COG 7th Day, HWA was already thrusting himself to the "front of the class" and writing for the churches publication and already promoting his own viewpoints onto the church.
ReplyDeleteInstead of just being patient, learning more, and settling in, he quickly became a climber and self promoter. He was going to "teach" and lead, COG 7 Day ministers, some with 50 years of experience, as a young 35 year old "whipper snapper". Within just 5 more years he was starting his own church.
Of course anyone in the WCG who would have been that audacious that quickly would have been tossed out on his ear by HWA!
HWA, should have called his church the ISLAM (submission) Church of God. HWA certainly was NEVER going to submit himself or humble himself to anyone.
Herbert's thesis here is highly speculative and his logic is far from rock solid, but that's all right, because he continues a long Christian tradition - starting with the founding NT writers - of mining the Septuagint for "new truth".
ReplyDeleteAnd why not: the Septuagint is not copyrighted; anyone is welcome to it (not that it bothered Herbert when it came to plundering copyrighted material either, for that matter!)
Anonymous 10:42 P'
ReplyDeleteI think you are missing the point. In August 1928 HWA allegedly writes his grandparents that Sabbath keeping not necessary for Salvation. In September 1928 The Bible Advocate publishes an article by HWA (probably written around the same time as the letter to his grandparents) stating the Sabbath as a perpetual covenant God and Israel (spiritual Israel in NT). HWA's "double mindedness" on the Sabbath question is being exposed.
For me, though, my question would be "how do we know the HWA letter to his Grandparents is authentic"? Had the same question when I viewed the Dan Rogers clip which this comparison to HWA's Bible Advocate article originated from.
Richard
10:42 PM
ReplyDeleteNot once have I ever published anything that could be considered a "Lie". Though this was documented thoroughly exactly one post below this one, this is from Dan Rogers - who explains the quote that you call "misleading". Just because YOU cannot find it does not mean IT does not exist.
https://youtu.be/dafCEgmZScw
A side note:
There is a rather pathetic phenomenon among Armstrongites when challenged with contrary viewpoints - no matter how well sourced and proven that they are - of name calling (at the least). This juvenile behavior is a defense mechanism. It would behoove Armstrongites to show that they can handle the genuine truth of Herbert Armstrong, who he was, and what he was about. It is a sign of maturity to do so without resorting to such pithy immaturity.
You people are sick! God's servant would never make such a statement.Mr. Armstrng would never let Satan influence him like that.
ReplyDeleteAnon 5:39 PM is halfway on the road to recovery when he writes:
ReplyDeleteGod's servant would never make such a statement. Mr. Armstrong would never let Satan influence him like that.
Because Anon 5:39 PM recognizes the first sentence to be true, he will in time see the flaw in his second sentence.
5:39
ReplyDeleteOk, here's the deal. You so sure about Herbert Armstrong? Find out for yourself. These are not made up fictional anecdotes. When you are ready to wake up, smell the coffee, and face the truth, we'll be here. In the meantime, just saying "Mr. Armstrong would never let" is nothing more than denial of the facts. If you choose to live in denial, that is absolutely your right and choice.
Best wishes.
Anonymous said... "You people are sick! God's servant would never make such a statement.Mr. Armstrng would never let Satan influence him like that."
ReplyDeleteAnd you're completely wrong. HWA was not "God's servant." HWA was a fallible sinner who deluded himself into thinking he was God's endtime apostle and prophet and his son GTA and himself were going to fulfill the role of the 2 Witnesses, when he (and his son) was nothing of the sort; and his WCG was the "true Church of God" when it was a cult like the Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses and even the RCC trumpeting it's doctrines as "the Truth" and its organization alone as "the one and only true Church." Wake up and look around you! It's not 1975 anymore. HWA is dead! GTA is dead! His WCG is gone! And out of its demise spewed forth more cults! Satan has influenced men and groups of men since the beginning of history. Why would you think HWA and the WCG were any different?! Because he told you so? Because you wanted it to be so? Well you were wrong. You were mistaken. You now have to wake up to this TRUTH and move on with your life. Open your Bible and study it without the broken lens of HWA and you'll see a lot of what he proclaimed was truth was half-truths at best and outright lies at worst. Focus on Jesus for He is the Truth, the Way and the Life. Not HWA or anyone else. And "the Truth will set you free."
Anon 5:39 PM,
ReplyDeleteWhat if what HWA wrote in August 1928,(
“...it's not disobedience to not keep the Sabbath. The Sabbath is not necessary for salvation.”), were somehow true?
Virtually all humanity of this present evil world, Eph 2:2, does not observe that 7th day Sabbath, and God does not impose His law on this world...good news!
2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
And the Sabbath necessary for salvation? No!
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Huh? Say again!
:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Isn't that good news too?
And for those who, perhaps (to use a word Bob Theil uses too often) self-righteously, think they perfectly observe the 7th day every week...how many times on each Sabbath have you broken the "spirit of the law" at least once during 1440 minutes?
And if we want to know what was going on in HWA's mind, just go look into a mirror.
What might we find there? Shades of Roman's 7:17, 30-21; James 4:5, I John 3:8, Jer 10:23, 17:9, and yes, 2 Timothy 2:26 shows evidence of Satan "successfully" exercising his will in our lives, and in God's Church 2 Thess 2:3 for the past approximately 2,000 years, etc.
How do we know? We see the "fruit" of the vile, perverse, evil spirit...of this world.
So, why do people want to continue to hate, blame, judge one another? John 8:44, and verses above, help for any who wish to look!
But, who even wants to look into any mirror...unless it is angled away from SELF?
And time will tell...
JOHN
Anon 10:14 PM makes a common mistake when he writes:
ReplyDeleteHWA was a fallible sinner who deluded himself into thinking he was God's endtime apostle and prophet and his son GTA and himself were going to fulfill the role of the 2 Witnesses
In fact, HWA deluded himself into thinking that he and his son Dick were going to play the role of the Two Witnesses. He had no such delusions about the hard-drinking and sexually promiscuous GTA... at least not until Alton Billingsley's careless driving got Dick killed. With Dick gone, HWA had to make a choice, either to close up shop or else to shoehorn GTA into a role he could not possibly fulfill. With his decision to push GTA into Dick's former role, it's hard to believe that HWA didn't realize that he was running a con, but we don't need to see inside HWA's head to know that what he wrought was not of God.
HWA was so ignorant. If the sabbath is a perpetual covenant and to be kept forever because of that, then so is circumcision.
ReplyDeleteGen 17:13 - He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.
The exact same Hebrew word is used here as everlasting rather than perpetual.
Before anyone says that circumcision is spiritually of the heart you had better think since most protestants believe they spiritually rest in Christ as their sabbath.
One perpetual/everlasting covenant can't be spiritual and the other absolutely not.
Kevin
Exactly, Kevin. And along the same lines as Christ being our Rest, we know Christ is our Sacrifice. But, I don't recall a scripture that explicitly says to stop performing sacrifices. Would this mean we should still be performing sacrifices? After all, you can gain a deeper understanding of sacrifice and propitiation by performing a sacrifice.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous 6:09 said... “In fact, HWA deluded himself into thinking that he and his son Dick were going to play the role of the Two Witnesses. He had no such delusions about the hard-drinking and sexually promiscuous GTA... at least not until Alton Billingsley's careless driving got Dick killed. With Dick gone, HWA had to make a choice, either to close up shop or else to shoehorn GTA into a role he could not possibly fulfill. With his decision to push GTA into Dick's former role, it's hard to believe that HWA didn't realize that he was running a con, but we don't need to see inside HWA's head to know that what he wrought was not of God.”
ReplyDeleteMakes sense what you wrote. I can’t recall reading HWA presumed he and his son Dick were going to fulfil the 2 Witnesses. But, I do remember reading a few times he and GTA were supposedly going to be the 2 Witnesses.
For instance, Robert Gerringer 1975 Letter to Charles Hunting wrote: “Although God has personally given Mr. Herbert W. Armstrong no commission, he nevertheless feels that virtually every commission God has ever given is his. Mr. Herbert W. Armstrong either thinks he is, or is to do the job given to: Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, the "watchman," the "inkhorn," the one who "cries aloud and spares not," Elijah to come, a type of John the Baptist, either Joshua or Zerubbabel, one of the two witnesses, an apostle, a "messenger" one who "prepares the way," Hosea, Malachi, Moses (anyone who disdains Mr. Herbert W. Armstrong's authority or position is immediately compared to Korah), Daniel, Joel, Amos, etc., etc., etc. And, of course, he primarily feels he is to fulfill Matt. 24:14 -- see Rev. 14:6 for the most likely individual to take care of that job.”
http://www.exitsupportnetwork.com/resrch/wcg/gerring2.htmhttp://www.exitsupportnetwork.com/resrch/wcg/gerring2.htm
Also on The Painful Truth’s Herbert W. Armstrong's 209 False Prophecies site it’s noted:
“47) through 1960's/70's until 1978 in coworkers letters: he & GTA will be two witnesses Zerubbabel and Joshua”
https://hwarmstrong.com/prophet-1.htm
Sorry, John.
ReplyDeleteYou say that "And if we want to know what was going on in HWA's mind, just go look into a mirror."
What? I looked into scholar's books- many many of them that have observed this phenomenon, and it became clear that HWA was a cult leader, like so many others.
Also, a false prophet, which the Bible has specified penalties for being one. However, I've argued enough with armstrongites, so I'm certain you've developed reasons why HWA isn't a false prophet (and many other horrid things that he is).
Anon, June 26, 2019 at 11:09 AM, wrote: "...Sorry, John.
ReplyDeleteYou say that "And if we want to know what was going on in HWA's mind, just go look into a mirror."
What? I looked into scholar's books- many many of them that have observed this phenomenon, and it became clear that HWA was a cult leader, like so many others.
Also, a false prophet, which the Bible has specified penalties for being one. However, I've argued enough with armstrongites, so I'm certain you've developed reasons why HWA isn't a false prophet (and many other horrid things that he is)…"
******
Anon 11:09, I was not referring to scholar's books, or to prophets, but to scriptures showing what affects all of our minds to one degree or another:
Namely, Roman's 7:17, 30-21; James 4:5, I John 3:8, Jer 10:23, 17:9, and yes, 2 Timothy 2:26 shows evidence of Satan "successfully" exercising his will in our lives, and in God's Church 2 Thess 2:3 for the past approximately 2,000 years, etc.
John