Below is from the latest COE report of United Church of God. With all the important things they could be focused upon as a church and even as ministers, this is where they place some their focus. Apparently some ministers are sending in papers that have a negative or off-putting "tone" to them. And, many of the ministers have an off-putting tone to their voice when they speak. Instead of being agents of grace and mercy they come across far too often as authoritative little jerks that turn off UCG members.
Keep it up boys! After 25 years you have this to celeberate on how awsome UCG is above all other COG's! Woo Hoo!Tone Chart Update and Discussion—Dan DowdThe discussion of the media department’s tone and voice chart was another follow-up discussion. Dan Dowd led the discussion picking up where Rex Sexton left off in the May meetings.Darris McNeely had invited Dan Dowd to meet with the media department about this topic at the home office on July 8, which he did. The tone and voice chart goes back to 2008 with a desire to have a consistent approach across all our preaching efforts because we no longer have one personality like Mr. Armstrong.Tone is the manner the voice is heard and how we present the material. Voice refers to the person using it with everyone having a different personality.Mr. McNeely was introduced to explain the voice and tone chart. He read the tone and voice chart and mentioned that it describes how we come across to those through the message going out. He explained that content is separate from tone and voice. Voice has many different components from loving and caring to authoritative at times which depends on the topic.Mr. Dowd mentioned one of the comments from the media department, that our publications are not primarily for our members.Peter Eddington explained we take a “milk to meat” approach. The Beyond Today (BT) is often the first introduction to the Church and the United News (UN) has additional, deeper doctrinal material. Then, many of our booklets go into greater doctrinal depth, more of the “meat” of the gospel. And this has been our historical approach.Chairman Ward mentioned the main reason this topic was brought up to the Council level was because some long-standing ministers have had their articles turned down because of their tone but they were not told why. The articles were for the UN where more meaty doctrinal articles are to be sent. Dr. Ward asked who decides whether articles are accepted or not.Peter Eddington said the UN content team is Vic Kubik, Darris McNeely, Peter Eddington, Justin Palm and the editor of the publication, Ariana Del Signore. There is a variety of reasons certain articles may not be published. We are trying to introduce the gospel message to the world. Every issue of the UN has a content meeting and sometimes judgment calls need to be made regarding what can be included. Sometimes there is simply not enough space in an issue to fit the articles that were submitted.Mr. McNeely said the articles go through doctrinal review and the doctrinal review team for the UN is David Mills, Rex Sexton, Tony Wasilkoff, Jerold Aust, Gerald Seelig, Darris McNeely, Peter Eddington and Vic Kubik who are seasoned ministers.Dr. Ward asked for improved communication when articles are not accepted.Ariana Del Signore, the new associate editor of the UN, said she would communicate who reviewed the article if they are not accepted.Scott Ashley said some articles sent in have good ideas, but they aren’t written well or are untimely for what is needed for certain issues.Mario Seiglie mentioned that anyone who writes knows that not everything will be used. He encouraged writers to not take it personally and to keep submitting articles.Jorge de Campos said that the feedback he has received for our publications is very good. Those producing them are doing an outstanding job. He encouraged anyone who has concerns to apply Matthew 18 instead of raising issues directly to the Council. He complimented the administration for what they are doing.Dr. Ward reminded everyone the issue is how to communicate back to the ministry when an article is not accepted. If an article is not accepted because of tone then the ministry should have a copy of the tone and voice chart, so they know why.Mr. Ashley said writer’s guidelines could be given to the ministry and writers. It can be passed along and posted online.Mr. McNeely recommended also posting a link for writers to a 50-minute writer’s class about tone and voice given by Scott Ashley.Mr. Dowd concluded by mentioning good communication back and forth will go a long way in helping resolve future situations. He also suggested distributing the tone and voice chart to all writers and this was agreed upon.
"Peter Eddington explained we take a “milk to meat” approach."
ReplyDeleteMore like skim milk to 2%
On one hand, you’d think that any church movement existing for over 75 years would have finally figured out that the tone with which teachings are expressed has a direct relationship with whether or not they are received and embraced. But, this is after all Armstrongism, a sad, sad environment in which it was always believed that the primary role of the ministry is to take a crap on the members, with the onus being on the members to maintain a proper attitude. Minister says “Shit!” Member comes sliding in on a shovel and says “What color, sir?”
ReplyDeleteBB
How revealing that long-time ministers are having articles rejected!
ReplyDeleteCan't help wondering if they're trying to "lay down the law," but that's considered too politically incorrect or "lacking in love" these days.
ReplyDeleteAll together, brethren....
Behold, the day will come
The day of a sermonette
He shall bring all members in that day
to a solemn snoring snooze
He shall watch his voice and his tone for sure
In the very midst of them
For the days of jowls shaky-shaking
is decades behind all of them
In that great day of speech
Twill be neither yell nor crescendo
But at even time they shall be calm
Just one personality
They shall even go there
from year to year
and shall preach them to a snooze
There shall be one speech at United
Till they all go and drink some boooooze
Behooold the day will come
when all pastors shall obey
they shall cease from yelling day and night
of all their au-thor-i-tayyyy
They shall even go there from year to year
and shall preach them to a snooze
there shall be one voice and one tone
and a belch after all that boooooooozeeee
HWA was a salesman. God wasn't talking talking to him. Nor was he a scholar. He was just a guy who knew how to sell whatever crap. And that's what he did. Then he came up with his own crap to sell.
ReplyDeleteEven though he never attended a college, he started one to train more salespeople to sell his crap.
The material HWA developed for his church and his college was rather a small and impoverished set of ideas, some of which were wishful thinking, and the rest were flat out wrong. It's such a small set of ideas that you can hear it all just by going to church once a week for about a year. After that it just starts to repeat. Over and over and over.
And this is UCG's legacy. It's a bunch of HWA's salesman who are still peddling the same old obsolete crap. They're not coming up with anything new. That's not what salesman typically do. Year-in-year-out, they just rehash the same antiquated material. It's all they've got! Some of it is wishful thinking, and the rest is flat out wrong.
If you've been a member for at least a year, you can quit. You've already heard it all. There's not going to be anything new after that. But I'd recommend you quit sooner. Why waste your time with all those lies and fantasies?
They can't come up with "anything new" because they don't grow in knowledge themselves. HWA said that he had THE TRUTH. So, you can't go elsewhere to grow any further. After all, you wouldn't be welcomed if you learned MORE than the master.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous said...
ReplyDeleteThey can't come up with "anything new" because they don't grow in knowledge themselves. HWA said that he had THE TRUTH. So, you can't go elsewhere to grow any further. After all, you wouldn't be welcomed if you learned MORE than the master.
ASB Comment: I have not followed the teaching of United Church of God neither have I visited any of the churches, so I cannot agree or disagree with any comments here. I do know some of the older members from the past who seem to be contented. I am not sure what those here would expect to be acceptable changes. ASB
Can someone identify the men in this photo? I recognize Wasselkoff and Dean. That's it.
ReplyDeleteIs there not a grave danger here that in adhering to a tone and voice chart the speakers and writers lose their true selves. And therefore Gods holy spirit working in humans has to adhere to this chart as well?
ReplyDeleteWhat if the devil influences the voice and tone chart ?
What a mess.
"writer's guidelines" "tone and voice"
ReplyDeleteHWA wrote that he rejected Herman Hoeh's first article because it wasn't written in "the Plain Truth style".
Perhaps that is why the introductions to Dr Hoeh's theses (the Compendium I and II) read like the intro to a classic PT article rather than a scholarly dissertation.
'Milk to meat approach.' The meat part are the three tithes, being lorded over by your minister, and forgetting about the free moral agency thingy.
ReplyDeleteI wonder why people aren't joining?
"Each man should give as he is able...We think 30% is about right"
ReplyDelete$tay home from church. $ave 20%😊
I'm convinced that SHT is Connie, and "she" has been a man all along. I had brought that up once before, that "her" posts read like they were written by a man....
ReplyDeleteAs I read the "Tone Chart Update and Discussion—Dan Dowd" discussion post, I kept thinking this splinter Armstrong Church of God (along with others) violate a couple important tenets of "classic Armstrongism" taught during the Radio/Worldwide Church of God glory years (sort of like classic Coke). They are:
ReplyDelete1) God "calls" the elect. God could use a donkey, if necessary, to call his elect.
Comment: Tone and voice charts are irrelevant to God's calling. However, it is very necessary for a corporate business church to further its own "work of man" in order to perpetuate itself to justify their existence and continue collecting tithe and offerings from the tithe slave sheep.
2) Herbert Armstrong repeatedly stated that the mission of the Philadelphia era Church of God was to preach the gospel to all nations (Matt. 24:14) before the Great Tribulation. As an aside, not to be confused with Gerald Flurry's Splinter group, I personally heard Mr. Armstrong in person address the Church as "Greetings Philadelphia Church of God" when he got to the podium.
Comment: Matthew 24:14 reads, "And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come". At the end of his life, Mr. Armstrong declared the gospel of the kingdom had reached the entire world. Of course, we can debate that, but that is what he taught. If true believers believe what Mr. Armstrong taught, then no need to worry about tone and voice charts because "...and then the end will come." It's going to happen - the world has been warned - so no need to do a "work of man" wasting resources trying to bring in new converts from a world that God is not calling now. My definition of poverty is "when much resources produce little results". What are the fruits of this Untied Church of God after 25 years?
While claiming to adhere to "the faith once delivered" through Mr. Armstrong, the United Church of God splinter along with others violate basic tenets of Armstrongism as taught by Mr. Armstrong when he was alive.
Richard
Quote of the day - "You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles?" Matthew 7:16
"We will finish the Work and it will all be over in 3-5 years!" I listened to this for 25 years.Today, the churches of God are less effective...no, make that, "completely unknown" and the upcoming generation is proving to be more straight-laced than the walking dead generation running the churches presently. New people are an absolute anomaly. With a ministry with essentially no "go-to's" and a laity that don't want them visiting their homes uninvited, even church headquarters are asking what it is a minister does to deserve a salary? Every issue of church news announces, on average, 3 births and 12 deaths. Time to withhold financial support and see if that creates "ears that hear."
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDelete6:53 -
ReplyDeleteI can state CATEGORICALLY and TRUTHFULLY that I am not Connie. I have never been Connie, and you are absolutely wrong. If you wish to remain convinced otherwise, have fun with that. I, along with some others, have absolutely no idea who Connie was, or is.
You did, however, make me laugh with that assertion. Thanks for the grin on this Sunday afternoon. I'm sure Gary got a chuckle on this hilarity approving this post as well.
Looks like a bunch of crusty old white men... Where's Jelly?
ReplyDeleteGlenn, I can ID the Council members. From left to right:
ReplyDeleteJorge de Campos, Darris McNeely (he's on TV), Tony Wasilkoff, Dan Dowd, Len Martin, Scott Ashley, Aaron Dean, Mario Sieglie, Rainer Salomaa, Randy Stiver, Robert Dick and Dr. Donald Ward (chair).
From COE.UCG.org
UCG has been wildly successful with their original and primary goal - full employment for former WCG ministers.
ReplyDeleteAny other apparent goals are window dressing to make it appear to the gullible that they have a biblical agenda of some sort.
If you were that concerned about tone and messaging why would you have someone like Rex Sexton speaking in your organization in the first place. Of all the off-putting COG personalities I ever personally encountered few individuals were repelling than that guy.
ReplyDeleteWhy would the names of the COE members be important? They don't surf or ride motorcycles, and would most likely walk out of a good movie or rock concert.🤮
ReplyDeleteBB
If they are so concerned about "tone" then pray tell me why so many of the top leaders and certain ministers are so condescending in their tone of voice to us? We are treated like idiot sheep who don't understand anything their lofty positions give them the authority over.
ReplyDeleteThey are now in the process of defining grace to us. Anyone with half a brain can read Galatians and know very quickly that the church does not practice grace or teach it.
All of this and more are contributing to the fact we don't attend church much that anymore. We stay home or take the kids out to the park, zoo or the beach. I would rather they enjoy God's creation than have to sit for an hour-and-a-half listening to some arrogant jerk off tell us how dumb we are.
"If they are so concerned about "tone" then pray tell me why so many of the top leaders and certain ministers are so condescending in their tone of voice to us? We are treated like idiot sheep who don't understand anything their lofty positions give them the authority over."
ReplyDeleteThe only way they can ensure they get paid is if they promote the lie that they have authority over you. They do not. Since many of them have proven themselves as not meeting the criteria of New Testament ministers as defined by scripture, they lose any "authority" they ever had (as if they had it in the first place, but that's another story). They literally bite the hand that feeds them to ensure the hand keeps feeding them!
Nobody should EVER have to sit for an hour and a half listening to some "arrogant jerk off" telling you how dumb you are. Thankfully, 2:09, you have spoken with your feet. I only hope you aren't still speaking with your pocketbook. These men have made a living promoting their "doctrines" while using scripture to justify their taking of money to support themselves and preach some sort of a gospel on the side. Enough is enough, i hope more people wake up and do the right thing as you have done. I know your children are the better for it in so many ways.
The reason that the COE members are important is because they are Popes in their church culture. So it's Pope Jorge de Campos, Pope Darris McNeely, Pope Tony
ReplyDeleteWasilkoff etc. Christ said "follow me" 23 times in the NT, but in these ACOGs, it's always follow your church popes.
I've been reading WWCG church literature since the mid 1960s, yet I never came across a article pointing out that a Christian is one who follows Christ directly as part of their baptism vow, and that Christ leads every member directly. Instead these ministers have usurped Christ's role by making themselves popes and little popes.
Why is there 12 members of the UCG board of directors? That is less then 600 members per board member. Why not cut back to 7 or at least 10? Most of these men look like they are well over 60.There are 2 or 3 that look like they might be in their 50's. Seems strange to me that a church that is supposed to have more of a bottom-up structure has so much of an emphasis put on the board of directors ruling over it.
ReplyDelete2:09 PM said, "[W]e don't attend church much that anymore. We stay home or take the kids out to the park, zoo or the beach. I would rather they enjoy God's creation than have to sit for an hour-and-a-half listening to some arrogant jerk off tell us how dumb we are."
ReplyDeleteAnd Byker Bob 1:26 PM pointed out about COE members: "They don't surf or ride motorcycles, and would most likely walk out of a good movie or rock concert."
Yes, it has always puzzled me that COG (and other fundamentalist groups) ignore the principle that actions speak louder than words when it comes to paying attention to what their god tells them. By his fruits you shall know him. If the universe was created on purpose, cientists who try to develop a coherent description of the universe at all scales from the submicroscopic to the cosmic are illuminating that creation and its creator much more fully than apologists trying to stitch together a collection of haphazardly preserved scraps of ancient texts into a coherent message. And people who enjoy the natural world and heartfelt expressions of human joy are worshipping in a truer sense than those enduring lectures about the distorted history and anthropology of British Israelism or the droning hymns of Dwight Armstrong.
6:53 said, "I'm convinced that SHT is Connie, and "she" has been a man all along. I had brought that up once before, that "her" posts read like they were written by a man...."
ReplyDeleteTo 6:53, I'm actually thinking that Tonto is Connie as "He" appeared right around the same time Connie stopped posting on this blog.
ReplyDeleteUCG: Another Example Of Why It Is Such An Inconsequential Little COG
As the disunited UCG continues to split and splinter it will become even more little and inconsequential.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous on September 2, 2019 at 5:32 PM said...“To 6:53, I'm actually thinking that Tonto is Connie as 'He' appeared right around the same time Connie stopped posting on this blog.”
Tonto appears to be Connie's husband. The original photo supposedly of “Connie” was probably from Tonto's porno collection. Connie later claimed to look something like Doris Day (that is, about a hundred years old). Tonto and Connie do not want to admit that the COG(7D) is small and dead.
The pope and little popes comparision is unfair. UCG is political and they are more like Senators than popes.
ReplyDeleteUCG and their voice and tone chart shows how the Church of God movement has become a brand. Like Coco-Cola. An organisational brand.
Was the church ever to be a brand?
There has been a chain of characters that have posted a mixture of humor, commentary and incisive analyses, while holding to general COG doctrines, and having had not entirely positive experiences with UCG. If you think back further, Joe Moeller disappeared at about the time Connie burst on the scene, and had the same literary style and chains of thought as the Connie and Tonto characters. There was an identifiable person who posted under his own name, very similar thoughts and expressions to Joe, Connie, and Tonto, several years back. There have always been cyber characters on ACOG dissident sites simply because of various cultic aspects of Armstrongism.
ReplyDeleteSome people either do not want to be identified, come here strictly for the knowledge which is not presented elsewhere, or participate for entertainment purposes. So long as they are friendly and amusing, I don’t worry about them.
BB
@ Byker Bob,
ReplyDeleteI'm not familiar with Joe Moeller, he must have been before I started checking this blog, but I will agree that Connie disappeared around the same time that Tonto appeared. and I would have to agree with you Bob that their style is very similar especially on a recent post where Tonto started off in the comment section with Connie's usual "Sing Along" response. As you stated, as long as they are friendly and amusing, what's the harm, I do get a kick out of their responses to many of the posts on this blog.
LIke Elizabeth Warren, I have a genetic that is diverse.
ReplyDeleteI am indeed very distant cousins to Joe Moeller, and Connie. At least something like 15th cousins twice removed.
Of course , I can say that about everyone who posts on here as well! LOL!
In responce to an opinion above, the Church of God Seventh Day is FAR from dead, and can boast of some 200k members worldwide.