Exposing the underbelly of Armstrongism in all of its wacky glory! Nothing you read here is made up. What you read here is the up to date face of Herbert W Armstrong's legacy. It's the gritty and dirty behind the scenes look at Armstrongism as you have never seen it before!
With all the new crazy self-appointed Chief Overseers, Apostles, Prophets, Pharisees, legalists, and outright liars leading various Churches of God today, it is important to hold these agents of deception accountable.
Herbert Armstrong's Tangled Web of Corrupt Leaders
How to identify a really satanic imposter cult: It will have David Pack leading it and making up crazy new teachings as he goes along. The demon-possessed leader will rant and rave, and yell and spit, and lie and steal, and do it all in God's name to try to make Him look bad.
So it's conform to Dave's common doctrine by sending him all your money, or into the lake of fire you go.
He states that in a democracy the people decide. Well, what did they decide? In America, the States and federal government formed committees which created drafts which were debated and eventually accepted. In all cases they were based on England's 1688 bill of rights. These rights are an acknowledgment of natural human rights. Little wonder that Pack and other splinter leaders find this offensive. How dare the little people think that they have any rights. Only the big people ministers and their minion boot lickers have rights.
David C Pack is an arrogant, delusional and theologically dangerous fool who simply needs to be sent packing by those whose lives and children are being influenced by him. Those few perhaps who are compliant on the outside, yet not buying it on the inside need to stand up and speak up. Going along to get along is long past.
Nothing he says is remotely true and nothing he speculates about will ever come to pass. Dave Pack is not intelligent. He's not even clever. He's delusional. His view of scripture is self serving and corrupt, along with others reputed to be pillars.
Dave Pack will strut and play out his theological delusions on the stage of religion for a short time and then be gone. The consequences for those who couldn't see through his bullshit theology will be great and last much longer.
Dave Pack, Ron Weinland, Gerald Flurry, James Malm, Bob Thiel and a host of other COG "I work for no one" types are the poster children for everything wrong with an uneducated clergy and the self appointed religious leader in our culture
Fortunately Dave Pack is a very small bit player in the field of religion. You can spend a lot of time looking for someone who has ever even heard of him much less been drawn to his perverted theology.
His bold statements here on this audio and those most are never able to hear in private, no doubt, are insanity on display. Cosigning people to the Lake of Fire, no matter one's belief on whether that is a real thing or not, or that salvation is closed to them for not "believing in common" or his authority to tell them what they must believe or not believe, do or not do, is evil personified. He's a liar and a fool in religion.
Let's get this part out of the way:
"The word “Raca” is a term that means “stupid.” To use this term against someone would be degrading their abilities, their intelligence, their capacity. It would not be a judgment of their character or eternal destiny. There is nothing wrong with making accurate judgments regarding someone’s abilities. We may have to do this in determining who is best qualified to hold various positions etc., However there is something wrong with using that knowledge to verbally demean another. Thus, Christ is saying if you do this you will be dealt with by the local counsel or authority, for such behavior is immature and may need discipline.
In contrast the term “fool” is regarding the character. It is judging the secret intents of the heart. It is saying you are an evil person, a scoundrel, a villain in heart. The Bible says, “man looks on the outward appearance, but God looks on the heart.” To make such public statements about another, unless specifically commissioned by God, (Nathan confronting David), smacks of arrogance and self-righteousness, and anyone whose heart is arrogant and self-righteous is in danger of eternal loss..."
Pick one. I don't know Dave's "heart". But I do know religious and scientific ignorance when I hear it. Dave has all of that. I'll go with Raca for now.
If a pastor of any brand of Christianity is supposed to be a "helper of their joy", Dave Pack is not that.
In the end, Dave Pack, like all others, will die and leave not a few of his groupies saying "I wish I had not done that."
Had Dave accepted his commission to the Navel Academy as he likes to use as a great sacrifice on his part to be in "the Work", he probably would have recreated the role of Captain Bligh on some poor ship, been put in a lifeboat and pushed out to sea only to return and hang those who challenged him.
He disrupted every church he ever pastored in WCG and left the people in worse shape than he alleges to have found them. The current notables of the splinters are all men who did the same. They neither work with or for others but only for themselves and demand respect they do not deserve for qualities and a calling they do not have.
What did Dee Bunker hear and see in this little clip to think that the RCG has become a cult?
"If you reject salvation as I teach it, you will not receive it"! "If you don't believe/obey "Common", you go to the lake of fire - it's that simple"! If you don't believe what the true church teaches, that is heresy which is sin ...." "If you don't obey the truth, you obey unrighteousness and will incur wrath, tribulation and anguish"! "To a people that don't fear God, as many of God's people do and virtually all in the splinters do".
The WCG taught over and over again about how out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh. What does Mr. Pack speaketh? He speaks exactly to the content that he is the arbitrator of Christian salvation. Just by the the sentence alone of a person not receiving salvation because they reject what he teaches, he puts himself as the end or conclusion of salvation. Jesus Christ is no longer the intermediary between the Father and man with this type of teaching. To further the importance of himself in the minds of his believers and to validate his authority as the "judge" of salvation or not, Mr. Pack has titled himself as the Man Clothed In Linen, That Prophet, Joshua The High Priest and the Root Of Jesse among other titles that no no end.
Mr. Pack quotes Romans 2:8 in prosecuting his membership as obeying unrighteousness when they don't believe or obey him, forgetting that the WCG termed righteousness as obedience to the ten commandments period. That Mr. Pack thinks his members keeping of the Ten Commandments isn't good enough for righteousness tells a lot about his thinking. In a chapter about judgement, Mr. Pack chucks out the law from his members and replaces it with his interpretation of righteousness or his opinion of truth. Romans 2:14-15 aptly applies to Mr. Pack who being the ultimate Gentile is a law unto himself. The poor membership of the RCG who are considered justified before God (Rom. 2:13) are continually castigated, threatened and sentenced for not looking to and obeying the man David Pack himself.
It has been obvious now for many years that the RCG is in no way a continuation of the church of Herbert W. Armstrong. It is also obvious that for many years the RCG has been the idolatrous church of David C. Pack. It has also been obvious for many years the disdain of Jesus Christ that Mr. Pack has. The world thinks Jesus Christ is coming back as the glorious King of kings; Mr. Pack teaches he is coming back as a human son of man. The world thinks Jesus Christ is coming back to Zion with great fanfare; Mr. Pack teaches that he will quietly slip into Wadsworth, Ohio to usher in the Kingdom. The world thinks that Jesus Christ will sit in his temple; Mr. Pack taught that he would be mostly hidden in the back part of the temple for 3.5 years while the Man of Sin wrecks the world while sitting in the foremost part of the temple. The world thinks the coming Kingdom will be without end: Mr. Pack teaches no, Jesus Christ will go back into hiding for a number of years. The world believes that all enemies will be vanquished by Jesus Christ from his Kingdom; Dave Pack believes that he and his six buddies will be the vanquishers of the enemies with swords in their hands and fiery ovens worldwide.
All the evidence is there to label this organization a C U L T. Who will see it?
3.23 AM Dave Pack knows that he will not be in the kingdom. It's the reason why he's thrown caution to the wind. The same goes for many other ministers and members. I call them white flag Christians. They have surrendered trying to qualify for the kingdom. Very sad.
To WATT @ 8:41 AM, the only way I can make sense of Pack's pronouncements is that he must privately believe (or at least suspect) that HE is the returning Christ.
What About The Truth at 8:41 AM said...“To further the importance of himself in the minds of his believers and to validate his authority as the 'judge' of salvation or not, Mr. Pack has titled himself as the Man Clothed In Linen, That Prophet, Joshua The High Priest and the Root Of Jesse among other titles that no no end.”
Gerald Flurry came up with all sorts of titles for himself. David Pack is trying to keep up. It is just a little bit of unfriendly competition between the two major false prophets to see which one of them can be the worst.
What About The Truth at 8:41 AM said...“It has been obvious now for many years that the RCG is in no way a continuation of the church of Herbert W. Armstrong.”
The Restored Cash Grab (RCG) was a devilish Bait & Switch scam. It started off trying to attract HWA's former followers and their assets by promising to give them everything that HWA had taught at the time of his death in January 1986. After attracting some simple, sincere, naive, unsuspecting victims, the doctrinal changes suddenly snowballed totally out of control. Dave Pack had initially nitpicked about every teeny tiny little real or imagined fault with every other splinter group. Later, Dave said that anyone who did not agree with his own unbelievably massive doctrinal change whoppers was just “nitpicking.”
Anonymous at 6:20 PM said...“To WATT @ 8:41 AM, the only way I can make sense of Pack's pronouncements is that he must privately believe (or at least suspect) that HE is the returning Christ.”
The “Messiah” (in Hebrew) and the “Christ” (in Greek) both mean the “Anointed One” (in English) or the “King” (in plain English).
Dave Pack was recently running off at the mouth about how he is going to become the Messiah.
What About The Truth at 8:41 AM said...“The world thinks Jesus Christ is coming back to Zion with great fanfare; Mr. Pack teaches that he will quietly slip into Wadsworth, Ohio to usher in the Kingdom. The world thinks that Jesus Christ will sit in his temple; Mr. Pack taught that he would be mostly hidden in the back part of the temple for 3.5 years while the Man of Sin wrecks the world while sitting in the foremost part of the temple. ”
This might be a good time to read what Jesus said in Matthew 24:22-28.
“So if anyone tells you, 'There he is, out in the desert,' do not go out; or, 'Here he is, in the inner rooms,' do not believe it. For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man” (Matthew 24:26-27, NIV).
10.33 PM Most members of the former WWCG have been around for decades. By this time, most should have matured enough to go solo and be independent Christians. Especially with the internet and its wealth of information. Members of the bride of Christ are supposed to be strong, stand alone Christians.
I don't mean to be unkind, but by now, there's something wrong if members need to attend a church in order to spiritually survive.
FALSE RELIGION in America: The only place where a complete fraud like klepto-Dave Pack-of-lies can legally threaten to have you thrown into a fire and burned up if you do not give him everything you own.
FALSE RELIGION in America: The only place where a complete fraud like klepto-Dave Pack-of-lies can legally threaten to have you thrown into a fire and burned up if you do not give him everything you own.
"Holding on to the faith once delivered by HWA is not easy when complete apostates and vicious false prophets are everywhere."
Wouldn't holding on to the faith delivered by Jesus Christ be much better? HWA was as much a false prophet as Pack and Flurry.
Lest you think I've thrown it all out I assure you that I still keep the lesser commands of sabbath, feasts and clean/unclean which HWA stole from others.
ReplyDelete“Dave Pack: How to Identify a Cult”
How to identify a really satanic imposter cult: It will have David Pack leading it and making up crazy new teachings as he goes along. The demon-possessed leader will rant and rave, and yell and spit, and lie and steal, and do it all in God's name to try to make Him look bad.
So it's conform to Dave's common doctrine by sending him all your money, or into the lake of fire you go.
ReplyDeleteHe states that in a democracy the people decide. Well, what did they decide? In America, the States and federal government formed committees which created drafts which were debated and eventually accepted. In all cases they were based on England's 1688 bill of rights. These rights are an acknowledgment of natural human rights. Little wonder that Pack and other splinter leaders find this offensive. How dare the little people think that they have any rights. Only the big people ministers and their minion boot lickers have rights.
Pack is the most unrighteous person that I know of that is still living.
ReplyDeleteHow he can even think that he will be in the Kingdom of Yahweh, is beyond me.
Blind as a bat. His sins are piled high into heaven and his doom is racing on.
David C Pack is an arrogant, delusional and theologically dangerous fool who simply needs to be sent packing by those whose lives and children are being influenced by him. Those few perhaps who are compliant on the outside, yet not buying it on the inside need to stand up and speak up. Going along to get along is long past.
ReplyDeleteNothing he says is remotely true and nothing he speculates about will ever come to pass. Dave Pack is not intelligent. He's not even clever. He's delusional. His view of scripture is self serving and corrupt, along with others reputed to be pillars.
Dave Pack will strut and play out his theological delusions on the stage of religion for a short time and then be gone. The consequences for those who couldn't see through his bullshit theology will be great and last much longer.
Dave Pack, Ron Weinland, Gerald Flurry, James Malm, Bob Thiel and a host of other COG "I work for no one" types are the poster children for everything wrong with an uneducated clergy and the self appointed religious leader in our culture
Fortunately Dave Pack is a very small bit player in the field of religion. You can spend a lot of time looking for someone who has ever even heard of him much less been drawn to his perverted theology.
His bold statements here on this audio and those most are never able to hear in private, no doubt, are insanity on display. Cosigning people to the Lake of Fire, no matter one's belief on whether that is a real thing or not, or that salvation is closed to them for not "believing in common" or his authority to tell them what they must believe or not believe, do or not do, is evil personified. He's a liar and a fool in religion.
Let's get this part out of the way:
"The word “Raca” is a term that means “stupid.” To use this term against someone would be degrading their abilities, their intelligence, their capacity. It would not be a judgment of their character or eternal destiny. There is nothing wrong with making accurate judgments regarding someone’s abilities. We may have to do this in determining who is best qualified to hold various positions etc., However there is something wrong with using that knowledge to verbally demean another. Thus, Christ is saying if you do this you will be dealt with by the local counsel or authority, for such behavior is immature and may need discipline.
In contrast the term “fool” is regarding the character. It is judging the secret intents of the heart. It is saying you are an evil person, a scoundrel, a villain in heart. The Bible says, “man looks on the outward appearance, but God looks on the heart.” To make such public statements about another, unless specifically commissioned by God, (Nathan confronting David), smacks of arrogance and self-righteousness, and anyone whose heart is arrogant and self-righteous is in danger of eternal loss..."
Pick one. I don't know Dave's "heart". But I do know religious and scientific ignorance when I hear it. Dave has all of that. I'll go with Raca for now.
If a pastor of any brand of Christianity is supposed to be a "helper of their joy", Dave Pack is not that.
In the end, Dave Pack, like all others, will die and leave not a few of his groupies saying "I wish I had not done that."
Had Dave accepted his commission to the Navel Academy as he likes to use as a great sacrifice on his part to be in "the Work", he probably would have recreated the role of Captain Bligh on some poor ship, been put in a lifeboat and pushed out to sea only to return and hang those who challenged him.
ReplyDeleteHe disrupted every church he ever pastored in WCG and left the people in worse shape than he alleges to have found them. The current notables of the splinters are all men who did the same. They neither work with or for others but only for themselves and demand respect they do not deserve for qualities and a calling they do not have.
Dennis:
ReplyDeleteDavy Pack preaches "RACA CACA"
ReplyDeleteDennisCDiehl at 4:39 AM said...“I'll go with Raca for now.”
You need to update that.
Dave Pack is already way beyond merely Raca.
Yes! He’s a whiskey raca roller! (Sorry, Ronnie; just seems so appropriate!
DeleteBB
What did Dee Bunker hear and see in this little clip to think that the RCG has become a cult?
ReplyDelete"If you reject salvation as I teach it, you will not receive it"! "If you don't believe/obey "Common", you go to the lake of fire - it's that simple"! If you don't believe what the true church teaches, that is heresy which is sin ...." "If you don't obey the truth, you obey unrighteousness and will incur wrath, tribulation and anguish"! "To a people that don't fear God, as many of God's people do and virtually all in the splinters do".
The WCG taught over and over again about how out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh. What does Mr. Pack speaketh? He speaks exactly to the content that he is the arbitrator of Christian salvation. Just by the the sentence alone of a person not receiving salvation because they reject what he teaches, he puts himself as the end or conclusion of salvation. Jesus Christ is no longer the intermediary between the Father and man with this type of teaching. To further the importance of himself in the minds of his believers and to validate his authority as the "judge" of salvation or not, Mr. Pack has titled himself as the Man Clothed In Linen, That Prophet, Joshua The High Priest and the Root Of Jesse among other titles that no no end.
Mr. Pack quotes Romans 2:8 in prosecuting his membership as obeying unrighteousness when they don't believe or obey him, forgetting that the WCG termed righteousness as obedience to the ten commandments period. That Mr. Pack thinks his members keeping of the Ten Commandments isn't good enough for righteousness tells a lot about his thinking. In a chapter about judgement, Mr. Pack chucks out the law from his members and replaces it with his interpretation of righteousness or his opinion of truth. Romans 2:14-15 aptly applies to Mr. Pack who being the ultimate Gentile is a law unto himself. The poor membership of the RCG who are considered justified before God (Rom. 2:13) are continually castigated, threatened and sentenced for not looking to and obeying the man David Pack himself.
It has been obvious now for many years that the RCG is in no way a continuation of the church of Herbert W. Armstrong. It is also obvious that for many years the RCG has been the idolatrous church of David C. Pack. It has also been obvious for many years the disdain of Jesus Christ that Mr. Pack has. The world thinks Jesus Christ is coming back as the glorious King of kings; Mr. Pack teaches he is coming back as a human son of man. The world thinks Jesus Christ is coming back to Zion with great fanfare; Mr. Pack teaches that he will quietly slip into Wadsworth, Ohio to usher in the Kingdom. The world thinks that Jesus Christ will sit in his temple; Mr. Pack taught that he would be mostly hidden in the back part of the temple for 3.5 years while the Man of Sin wrecks the world while sitting in the foremost part of the temple. The world thinks the coming Kingdom will be without end: Mr. Pack teaches no, Jesus Christ will go back into hiding for a number of years. The world believes that all enemies will be vanquished by Jesus Christ from his Kingdom; Dave Pack believes that he and his six buddies will be the vanquishers of the enemies with swords in their hands and fiery ovens worldwide.
All the evidence is there to label this organization a C U L T. Who will see it?
3.23 AM
ReplyDeleteDave Pack knows that he will not be in the kingdom. It's the reason why he's thrown caution to the wind. The same goes for many other ministers and members. I call them white flag Christians. They have surrendered trying to qualify for the kingdom.
Very sad.
To WATT @ 8:41 AM, the only way I can make sense of Pack's pronouncements is that he must privately believe (or at least suspect) that HE is the returning Christ.
ReplyDelete“They’re coming to take me away, ha ha!” Napoleon XIII came up with that one, back in ‘65!
DeleteBB
ReplyDeleteWhat About The Truth at 8:41 AM said...“To further the importance of himself in the minds of his believers and to validate his authority as the 'judge' of salvation or not, Mr. Pack has titled himself as the Man Clothed In Linen, That Prophet, Joshua The High Priest and the Root Of Jesse among other titles that no no end.”
Gerald Flurry came up with all sorts of titles for himself. David Pack is trying to keep up. It is just a little bit of unfriendly competition between the two major false prophets to see which one of them can be the worst.
ReplyDeleteWhat About The Truth at 8:41 AM said...“It has been obvious now for many years that the RCG is in no way a continuation of the church of Herbert W. Armstrong.”
The Restored Cash Grab (RCG) was a devilish Bait & Switch scam. It started off trying to attract HWA's former followers and their assets by promising to give them everything that HWA had taught at the time of his death in January 1986. After attracting some simple, sincere, naive, unsuspecting victims, the doctrinal changes suddenly snowballed totally out of control. Dave Pack had initially nitpicked about every teeny tiny little real or imagined fault with every other splinter group. Later, Dave said that anyone who did not agree with his own unbelievably massive doctrinal change whoppers was just “nitpicking.”
ReplyDeleteAnonymous at 11:28 AM said...“I call them white flag Christians. They have surrendered trying to qualify for the kingdom. Very sad.”
Imagine those in the WCG who got hit with the Tkaches' Great Apostasy in 1995.
Imagine the thousands who then got deceived into going with Gerald Flurry's waiting PCG imposter cult trap.
Imagine the hundreds who escaped from the PCG trap but then went on to fall for David Pack's RCG scam cult.
Holding on to the faith once delivered by HWA is not easy when complete apostates and vicious false prophets are everywhere.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous at 6:20 PM said...“To WATT @ 8:41 AM, the only way I can make sense of Pack's pronouncements is that he must privately believe (or at least suspect) that HE is the returning Christ.”
The “Messiah” (in Hebrew) and the “Christ” (in Greek) both mean the “Anointed One” (in English) or the “King” (in plain English).
Dave Pack was recently running off at the mouth about how he is going to become the Messiah.
ReplyDeleteWhat About The Truth at 8:41 AM said...“The world thinks Jesus Christ is coming back to Zion with great fanfare; Mr. Pack teaches that he will quietly slip into Wadsworth, Ohio to usher in the Kingdom. The world thinks that Jesus Christ will sit in his temple; Mr. Pack taught that he would be mostly hidden in the back part of the temple for 3.5 years while the Man of Sin wrecks the world while sitting in the foremost part of the temple. ”
This might be a good time to read what Jesus said in Matthew 24:22-28.
“So if anyone tells you, 'There he is, out in the desert,' do not go out; or, 'Here he is, in the inner rooms,' do not believe it. For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man” (Matthew 24:26-27, NIV).
Should he now be called Pope Pack? Sounds like it to me.
ReplyDeleteMore like Pope Piel. He slices, dices and cuts Christianity until it is no longer recognizable.
DeleteBB
10.33 PM
ReplyDeleteMost members of the former WWCG have been around for decades. By this time, most should have matured enough to go solo and be independent Christians. Especially with the internet and its wealth of information. Members of the bride of Christ are supposed to be strong, stand alone Christians.
I don't mean to be unkind, but by now, there's something wrong if members need to attend a church in order to spiritually survive.
4.24 AM
ReplyDeleteAll HWA ministers behaved like popes.
Dave is just continuing the tradition.
ReplyDeleteFALSE RELIGION in America: The only place where a complete fraud like klepto-Dave Pack-of-lies can legally threaten to have you thrown into a fire and burned up if you do not give him everything you own.
ReplyDeleteFALSE RELIGION in America: The only place where a complete fraud like klepto-Dave Pack-of-lies can legally threaten to have you thrown into a fire and burned up if you do not give him everything you own.
"Holding on to the faith once delivered by HWA is not easy when complete apostates and vicious false prophets are everywhere."
ReplyDeleteWouldn't holding on to the faith delivered by Jesus Christ be much better? HWA was as much a false prophet as Pack and Flurry.
Lest you think I've thrown it all out I assure you that I still keep the lesser commands of sabbath, feasts and clean/unclean which HWA stole from others.
Kevin
8:28am A hearty AMEN!!!!!!
ReplyDeleteKevin