Here's Gerald Waterhouse on the World Religions in 1981. He'd flip a cow pie if he saw that Armstrongism became the same thing.
“Seems like some people got so much of this world's religion, they think this world and all of its dividing religions is right, and if you don't agree, you just go out and start your own. So Martin Luther disagrees with Catholics, and he went out then others disagree with them, others disagree with them, and finally you got about 600 different protestants. And they all think this is right. You know... if you dont agree go out and start your own religion,and that's God's religion, If God were to accept that, he'd be a weak, weak … fish! Some people think God is so weak that you can come down here and coin your own religion and shove it down God's throat and he's gonna swallow it! God is the one that decides how we worship Him and no one decides that except God Almighty and he is revealing that through His apostle toward the World Tomorrow. Mr. Armstrong - no one else knows how to worship God of Himself … but God does and he's leading through Christ to build a team as the pioneers to teach the whole world, here's the way you worship God. And God will have no other way, I'll guarantee you. And then if anyone says I wont worship that way, God says, I won't force you, I'll just burn you up. God's gonna win the argument, no one's gonna argue with God and win. He says if you dont wanna worship me the way I want you too, fine! You don't have to, but won't be around. See no one's gonna argue God into their own religion. See if God were to agree with all these different... How many pieces would God have to divide Himself into? Give a part in the Baptist, Methodist, Presbyterian, four square, three square, half a square, Anglican, dutch reform, German reform, Chez unformed, unreformed, latter day saints, early day saints, middle age saints, dead saints, live saints, no saints. How could God divide himself if they have different days? And they worship every day, and this day, and that day? The simple solution is He makes everyone conform to Him and He has one family all speaking the same thing! This world is so absolutely confused! Then some who have been in the Church they go back out and get just as confused. One minister who was a Church of Christ minister for quite a number of years jumped the track went out and he went back as a Church of Christ minister and his wife's teaching Sunday School, doesn't that sound sweet? May sound sweet but sweet will burn in the Lake of Fire, I'll guarantee you." February 7, 1981, San Angelo, Texas found by SHT
How many Church of God's will the church continue to divide into? Which piece is right? We are already at around 500+ splinter groups through the last 7+ decades. Every single one of them doing what they think is right. The Church of God is so absolutely confused.
So much for that "team" being led to be teachers in the world tomorrow. Instead, we have a bunch of self-appointed narcissistic liars who have turned into little Hitlers that are wreaking havoc in the church, by leading people astray with their blasphemous lies.
I am always shocked when I hear stories about WCG back in the day or hear insane quotes from back in the day. I wonder how any of you fell for that kind of cult nonsense. I came in the 90's when the whacky stuff was not said anymore but there was no internet yet to research what it was I was getting into.
ReplyDeleteHello Stoned Stephen. Don't be shocked. Just try and show your 1990 pictures of your haircut, shoes and clothes to your daughters.
ReplyDeleteThey might just vomit or pass out on what was "fashionable" or fitting at the time.
It is impossible to really explain slavery, the viking raids or any history for that matter without completely understanding the historic circumstances.
So if Waterhouse might sound insane today he sure would have sounded compelling to a generation that had left the established churches he railed against behind in the 1950's and sixties as most of those churches lost 50 percent of their membership in percentages in the USA.
As a matter of fact most Europeans look at Americans as insane for believing in a God anyway.
So here you have a simple try at answering your question.
I expect you to study further on the rise of cults since the 1960's peaking a decade later, unchurching, the baby boom generation, the Cold War and imminent destruction of the world fear re the doomsday clock, the club of Rome, societal upheaval, vietnam, race riots, killing of presidents and candidates, armstrongism providing a father for the fatherless etc etc etc etc
So please don't say stupid things like how "other could fall for that nonsense in the past".
You might get deported in the future for having owned a fossil fueled car or shot for enjoying the occasional piece of meat at the barbeque or having more than one kid altogether.
How could you have fallen for those earth destroyers habits in the past?
Then you will kneel in shame before the earth resquing squad and admit that you just did what others did too that what you did like the right to owning a car was fairly common belief or habit "in the past" and that you had missed the information against earth destroying habits on the internet, or at least chose to ignore it.
Then your grandchildren will initiate the stoning (since no trees are alive by that time)
PS: In our case the cold war ended, thus the need for an apocalyptic creed
Nck
First of all, SSS, some of us didn’t have a choice to “fall” for it. We were dragged away from relative normalcy by our parents who for whatever reason went off the deep end. I watched mine transition from nurturing, likeable individuals who were fun to be around into savage monsters at home, and smiley right attitude types in front of the brethren and ministers. I tried applying the Armstrongism I was taught until it became ridiculous and untenable, all coming to a head in 1975. The parental units never woke back up. They died “in the faith”, no doubt still expecting the end right up until their own end. They could have made many more constructive choices that would have had a salubrious effect on us kids. I can only guess what mental processes led them to the Armstrong cult.
ReplyDeleteWe recently witnessed a video interview of a young man who had grown up in the later incarnation of the church and splinters. The church may have purged itself of saying wacky stuff by then, but this guy had gone through every bit the hell that those of us who had grown up in the ‘50s and ‘60s did. He certainly had his recovery work cut out for him, just as we had before him.
BB
BB. I should have worded that better. Sounds condescending.
DeleteThere's no way around having all these different churches, and that applies to every religion. Even the Hindus and Muslims are highly fragmented. During Christ's millennium rule, there will still be personal differences. There will be outward conformity, but beneath the veneer, people will have their own ideas. There is no way around this since at the end of the day, every person is a free moral agent. This is mentioned in the parable of the talents. Every person makes their own choices, lives with the consequences, and is accordingly judged by God. This must also be the case in the angelic realm.
ReplyDeleteI started attending church at home by myself. Unfortunately, I had a church split, and it was very painful to me in many ways!
ReplyDeleteI understand the gist of this post, that Waterhouse was describing what is now all the splinters today. What stood out to me about what he said in this quote was how he kept saying “God can’t...”. How if we don’t tow the line, phht, we’re burnt up.
ReplyDeleteHow clueless he was about the nature of God. Waterhouse was one of the worst of the “evangelists”. He had no clue about love or mercy or any of the FRUITS of the Spirit as demonstrated by this quote. It was always all about obedience to armstrongism.
So now the splinter leaders follow armstrongism; “obey me or burn up”.
Sick.
BB Said : First of all, SSS, some of us didn’t have a choice to “fall” for it. We were dragged away from relative normalcy by our parents who for whatever reason went off the deep end. I watched mine transition from nurturing, likeable individuals who were fun to be around into savage monsters at home, and smiley right attitude types in front of the brethren and ministers.
ReplyDeleteASB Comment: My life was extremely different than BB's. My parents were members of religious group that were strict in living by the bible in many ways that was different from the cultures of the day, but they were not savage monsters. My wife and I committed to living by the bible in 1958 and are still in that category. We were associated with the WWCOG at that time and left in 2000. While there were many things in the organization that were corruptive and destructive there were also a experiences that are positive and enjoyable learning experiences. This is true of every persons life whether they are bible believers or not. ASB
ReplyDelete"How many Church of God's will the church continue to divide into? Which piece is right?"
I don't think that they divided because the leader of the new group thought that he was more right in his theology. I think that they divide because the new leader wants to be the boss. It isn't about right or wrong as much as it is probably about power, who is in charge. Did Meredith really think that the reason he started a new group was because his theology was so much purer than someone else's? Wasn't he always interested in position, title, power, etc.? Were all of these divisions just for the sake of purity of doctrine or was it more about the possession of power? When HWA was dying, how many VPs all thought that they were the rightful successor to him? I think a lot of them wanted the corner office, the GII, the title and the prestige of the position . . . and, of course, the power.
How many Church of God's will the church continue to divide into? Which piece is right?
ReplyDeleteThese are interesting questions. Really this would not be a problem if we did not try to limit God to one organization. This is especially true when look at the present world view. One thing that needs to be focused on is the person defined as Jesus the Christ. Another is the God referred to in all of the biblical stories. We need to recognize that every individual attracted to the Christian faith will have different views of the way of life should be. It has been pointed out that the way is narrow, but does that mean everyone takes the same path?. Realistically any goal that a person wants to achieve must be focused on the goal, but the way to achieve it depends on the starting point and the determination we have to achieve it.
When I committed my life to living by the bible everything was and is viewed from that perspective. This was true in my business and my activity in WWCOG and today. My comments here are not intended to cause conflict or confusion. They are to let people realize that people can be on their narrow way and contented if their goal is fulfilling God's purpose for human life. ASB
Gerald Waterhouse had the same lording position as the Catholic Church. There's a well read and spoken popular Catholic speaker on YouTube called Bishop Baron. According to one of his videos, the Pope is like a referee in a football game, and has the final say on theology. According to him, this solves the division problem that plagues the Protestants. Which ignores that the bible condemns lording it over members faith. The value of watching Bishop Baron is that he is explicit about what his church believes.
ReplyDeleteThe ACOG share many of the same Catholic beliefs, but rather teach them under the table by implying them.
And Gerald Waterhouse spent the last few years of his life in.... a splinter. In UCG.
ReplyDeleteHis words are sad. Yet accurate.