Exposing the underbelly of Armstrongism in all of its wacky glory! Nothing you read here is made up. What you read here is the up to date face of Herbert W Armstrong's legacy. It's the gritty and dirty behind the scenes look at Armstrongism as you have never seen it before!
With all the new crazy self-appointed Chief Overseers, Apostles, Prophets, Pharisees, legalists, and outright liars leading various Churches of God today, it is important to hold these agents of deception accountable.
Herbert Armstrong's Tangled Web of Corrupt Leaders
To be a real Jew you must obey the Law. True circumcision is something that happens deep in your heart,not something done to your body. And besides, you should want praise from God and not from humans.
Anon 4:34pm - we better get stones in bulk so we can stone everyone breaking the Sabbath, committing adultery, etc. Are you wearing the required fringes on your garments? There are over 600 commands in the Torah - are you keeping them all? Do you even know more than a fraction of them?
Jesus appears to have been a Jewish Rabbi who preached to Jews only with very few exceptions, and preached a less stringent version of Judaism than the Pharisees.
Paul was also a Jewish Rabbi and preached that a Jew could stay a Jew and a Gentile could stay a Gentile while keeping the Jewish faith as modified by Jesus.
The Roman Catholics modified the religion still further by removing Judaism from it. WCG tried to put Judaism back into the religion without any real understanding of what Judaism is about.
To "believe in the Lord Jesus" you must do the things he said in both the Old Testament and New Testament.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The answer given the prison guard is as follows: "And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house" (Acts 16:31).
We're saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ. We're not saved by faith + works. You're making the mistake of equating faith with works.
And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house. And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway. And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them, and rejoiced, believing in God with all his house" (Acts 16:31-34).
Your comment's timestamp is the count. The '613 commandments' you referred to are NOT found in the Torah. The number is mentioned in the Talmud, part of what Rabbinic/Orthodox Jews (modern pharisees) call oral law or oral torah which other Jews like Karaites do not accept as scriptures.
WAS PAUL DIVINELY INSPIRED? WAS HE REALLY A PHARISEE OF PHARISEES?
Gal 3:16 (NKJV) Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as of many, but as of one, “And to your Seed,” who is Christ.
How the Torah uses the word 'seed' rather than the word 'seeds'.
Gen 13:15-16 (KJV) For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever. And I will make thy seed as the dust of the earth: so that if a man can number the dust of the earth, then shall thy seed also be numbered.
Gen 13:15-16 (NKJV) for all the land which you see I give to you and your descendants forever. And I will make your descendants as the dust of the earth; so that if a man could number the dust of the earth, then your descendants also could be numbered.
The seed refers to Abraham's descendants as how the NKJV translated seed. This is just one of Paul's numerous lies and distortion of the word of God!
For other instances of 'seed' in Tanakh - Gen 15:5-6; 16:10; 17:19; 18:18; 22:17; 2 Kings 11:1; 2 Chron 20:7. Compare the KJV with other translations like NKJV.
To be saved.... But Jesus said "you should have done those things without having left the others undone."
Jesus will turn those away from the kingdom that practice lawlessness. You are decieiving yourself if you think the commandments of God are done away with.
This Protestant Antinomian theory is a bunch of rubbish concocted by sabbatarian Christians. Protestants do not teach lawlessness, in fact they warn about "cheap grace". Some of what we might call "lapsed" Protestants practice lawlessness, but that goes against what their churches teach. Same with Catholics. There are observant Catholics, and there are lapsed Catholics. Kind of like Armstrongites who watch TV on the sabbath, cheat on their tithes, wear unapproved hair styles, listen to rock, rap, and country western music, and blaspheme their apostles (that last one was a joke, so feel free to laugh as opposed to turning up your nose with a side to side headshake and withering self-righteous sneer).
ROM 11:26-27 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: “The Deliverer will come out of Zion, And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob; For this is My covenant with them, When I take away their sins.”
WHAT PAUL SHOULD HAVE SAID IF HE REALLY WAS A PHARISEE (AND NOT A LIAR):
ISA 59:20-21 “The Redeemer will come to Zion, And to those who turn from transgression in Jacob,” Says the Lord. “As for Me,” says the Lord, “this is My covenant with them: My Spirit who is upon you, and My words which I have put in your mouth, shall not depart from your mouth, nor from the mouth of your descendants, nor from the mouth of your descendants’ descendants,” says the Lord, “from this time and forevermore.”
Paul was misquoting Isaiah 59:20! He was twisting scriptures, God's word, by saying that the Messiah will take away Israel's sins! What is being conveyed in Isaiah is that the Messiah will come when Israel put aside their sins!
All this discussion on "covenants". As if any of you ever read or understands google and facebook's "user conditions" before submitting the data of your entire life, e-mail contents, blogposts and whereabouts to them. Reading this discussion so far it seems Paul would be hired as a corporate lawyer by them.
GAL 3:22-25 But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.
WHAT A REAL, HONEST PHARISEE WOULD HAVE TAUGHT ABOUT THE MESSIANIC AGE ...
EZE 37:24 “David My servant shall be king over them, and they shall all have one shepherd; they shall also walk in My judgments and observe My statutes, and do them.
According to Paul, once the messiah arrives, we would no longer be under the law. This is opposite of what is prophesied in the messianic age! The Torah will continue to be observed and obeyed!
GAL 4:21-31 Paul's parable is about Replacement Theology. He likens the Jews to the son of Hagar, the bondwoman, as he believes those under the Sinai covenant are under bondage. Didn't Paul know that Ishmael was not part of the Sinai covenant? The Christians are liken to the son of the free woman born according to spirit. In verse 29, he said that the Jews have been persecuting the Christians. What?
IS THE LAW DONE AWAY? ARE THOSE KEEPING THE LAW IN BONDAGE?
EZE 37:24 David My servant shall be king over them, and they shall all have one shepherd; they shall also walk in My judgments and observe My statutes, and do them.
DEU 10:12-13 “And now, Israel, what does the Lord your God require of you, but to fear the Lord your God, to walk in all His ways and to love Him, to serve the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul, and to keep the commandments of the Lord and His statutes which I command you today for your good?
JOSHUA 1:7-8 Only be strong and very courageous, that you may observe to do according to all the law which Moses My servant commanded you; do not turn from it to the right hand or to the left, that you may prosper wherever you go. This Book of the Law shall not depart from your mouth, but you shall meditate in it day and night, that you may observe to do according to all that is written in it. For then you will make your way prosperous, and then you will have good success.
PSALM 1:1-3 Blessed is the man Who walks not in the counsel of the ungodly, Nor stands in the path of sinners, Nor sits in the seat of the scornful; But his delight is in the law of the Lord, And in His law he meditates day and night. He shall be like a tree Planted by the rivers of water, That brings forth its fruit in its season, Whose leaf also shall not wither; And whatever he does shall prosper.
See also 1 Kings 2:3; Neh 9:13-14; Ecc 12:13; Isa 48:18; Ps 19:7-11
lists the 613 commandments in the Torah- directly from the first 5 books of the Bible. While not all scholars agree on what is included in the list- they are all in the Bible Do a search and you will find the list I found Remember there is a lot of fake “facts “ out there
11:10 It's refreshing to see someone else understands just how Paul twisted scripture to accommodate his views. As you seem to understand, If Paul was a Pharisee, he was like no Pharisee would ever have been. He did not read scripture like one nor argue as one. He tried, but failed often. On top of that he did not use the Hebrew to do it. He seems to have loved the Greek version.
In Acts 23 Paul says he was arrested for his belief in the resurrection. A ploy to divide the Pharisees who believed in one with the Saducees who did not. But the real reason was given in Acts 21. He lied to King Agrippa as well about his calling.
Many theologians feel that it was Paul who the Ephesians, in the letter to the Ephesians in Revelation , Jesus commended the church for exposing as a false Apostle.
Rev 2: "I know your works, your labor, your patience, and that you cannot bear those who are evil. And you have tested those who say they are apostles and are not, and have found them liars;"
Paul admitted that " You are aware that all who are in Asia turned away from me, among whom are Phygelus and Hermogenes." The Ephesian Church would be in Asia of the day. 2 Tim 1:15
The reason this topic is so convoluted and the cause of so many arguments over what Paul taught or meant is just these kinds of reasonings from Paul himself in his attempt to define his Gospel (Galatians 1) as apart from that of the Jerusalem Apostles, Peter, James and John. As I have said numerous times, the Book of James is a Rebuttal of Paul's Book of Romans which is why people today read both and see both arguments for law and grace and works and whatever as necessary or not.
I would suggest "Paul the Mythmaker" by Hyam Jaccoby for an introduction to "The Problem With Paul."
Paul lied to James about how he would bring Gentiles into the Church in Acts 15. He was told to teach not eating meat offered to idols etc and yet in I Corinthians he told the church differently and that "in all men, (James) there was not that (his) knowledge."
Christianity was fundamentally a Jewish sect back in the day. Jesus, the Messiah was to return soon. As it all grew long and not so, belief had to evolve and questions never before thought necessary to even ask had to be answered. From this evolution of thought on the meaning of Jesus we have all we see today from Funda-mental-isms to Catholocism and her wayward children. It is why, in part, WCG blew apart and a microcosm of the problems between Jewish Christianity and the Pauline Gentile version. HWA founded a modern Jewish version. JWT went with the gentile version that won the day over all in the last 2000 years. The chaos that followed was typical and predictable.
Basically management doesn't demand a hockey coach dismantle the rink and now put up hoops and teach Basketball. Especially when the hockey coach or player doesn't like basketball and didn't sign up to play it. :) Paul did the very same thing to Peter, James and John and demanded it of his gentile followers.
10:07 You gotta call me or we have to have lunch! You got it! Email me for number. "Paul-Making the Old Testament Mean What It Never Meant" :) "Matthew" was also an expert at this theological skill.
However too, there are many excellent studies and books available on the conflict between Paul and the Jewish Jerusalem Apostles. Paul the Mythmaker got me thinking outside the box of Paul/James and WCG years ago and was a place to start. Others have well taken up the challenge of Paul. Lillian Freudmann's "Anti Semitism and the New Testament" is a tour de force on Paul and how he used the Old Testament scriptures, or misused them, to construct his Gospel views of Jesus. She does so in agonizing detail and is a great study. The book is paperback, rare and very expensive. Chewie the Shi Tzu got ahold of my copy back in the day and I simply bandaged it back up as it is a keeper! :)
Do any of the books go into why the books in the Bible were selected The COGs teach that Peter put them together and then finalized them and added his writings This conflicts with Paul being at odds with the original apostles
What I wrote - "The '613 commandments' you referred to are NOT found in the Torah. The number is mentioned in the Talmud,..."
The point is where does it says you have to keep 613 commandments? Does the Torah lists 613 commandments? Different rabbis in different times would list the 613 and they are not all the same.
Let's take Lev 19:18b "but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the Lord.". One can count that as two - 'love yourself' and 'love your neighbor'. How about feeding the hungry? Isn't this part of loving your neighbor as yourself? How about the Sabbath? At least two - 'do not work on the Sabbath' and 'rest on the Sabbath'. Do we really want to count the commandments and be in danger of becoming engrossed in counting brownie points?
If one would attempt to count, he may come up with a different number. One of the explanations for the 613 number is Gen 32:4 where Jacob said 'I have dwelt with Laban'. The word 'dwelt' comes from the Hebrew 'garti' whose numerical value (Gematria) totals 613 = 3(gimmel) + 200(resh) + 400(tav) + 10(yod). The rabbis interpreted this verse as Jacob saying he kept all 613 of the Torah commandments while with Laban and before he came back to the promised land. Check Lev 18:18 :).
The law keeping of the pharisees is the benchmark for Christians (Mt 5:20). When it comes to the Torah, the Pharisees are the experts. That's according to Paul and why he kept on pretending and claiming to be a pharisee.
8:36, Wasn't it Constantine who decided which books were to be put in the cannon, along with whomever was with him at the time? Different cultures included different books than others, such as the Ethiopians. Some wanted this book included and others said no, they don't want that one because it isn't important enough. If the Bible doesn't have all the books, then in my view, it isn't complete, one does not have all the information. What else should have been included and wasn't, what is the rest of the story?
No, it wasn't Constantine ... according to Bart Ehrman. He said this in his discussion 'The Truth About the Da Vinci Code' at University of North Carolina Asheville.
Here's the video of that discussion (topic regarding Constantine starts at 18:18 mark) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ml5H7CET-LM
"Things Paul actually said":
ReplyDeleteTo be a real Jew you must obey the Law.
True circumcision is something that happens deep in your heart,not something done to your body. And besides, you should want praise from God and not from humans.
Contemporary English Bible
To "believe in the Lord Jesus" you must do the things he said in both the Old Testament and New Testament.
ReplyDeleteAnon 4:34pm - we better get stones in bulk so we can stone everyone breaking the Sabbath, committing adultery, etc.
ReplyDeleteAre you wearing the required fringes on your garments?
There are over 600 commands in the Torah - are you keeping them all? Do you even know more than a fraction of them?
Jesus appears to have been a Jewish Rabbi who preached to Jews only with very few exceptions, and preached a less stringent version of Judaism than the Pharisees.
ReplyDeletePaul was also a Jewish Rabbi and preached that a Jew could stay a Jew and a Gentile could stay a Gentile while keeping the Jewish faith as modified by Jesus.
The Roman Catholics modified the religion still further by removing Judaism from it.
WCG tried to put Judaism back into the religion without any real understanding of what Judaism is about.
Anonymous November 4, 2019 at 4:34 PM said:
ReplyDeleteTo "believe in the Lord Jesus" you must do the things he said in both the Old Testament and New Testament.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The answer given the prison guard is as follows: "And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house" (Acts 16:31).
We're saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ. We're not saved by faith + works. You're making the mistake of equating faith with works.
And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house. And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway. And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them, and rejoiced, believing in God with all his house" (Acts 16:31-34).
TLA 6:13pm
ReplyDeleteYour comment's timestamp is the count. The '613 commandments' you referred to are NOT found in the Torah. The number is mentioned in the Talmud, part of what Rabbinic/Orthodox Jews (modern pharisees) call oral law or oral torah which other Jews like Karaites do not accept as scriptures.
WAS PAUL DIVINELY INSPIRED? WAS HE REALLY A PHARISEE OF PHARISEES?
ReplyDeleteGal 3:16 (NKJV) Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as of many, but as of one, “And to your Seed,” who is Christ.
How the Torah uses the word 'seed' rather than the word 'seeds'.
Gen 13:15-16 (KJV) For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever. And I will make thy seed as the dust of the earth: so that if a man can number the dust of the earth, then shall thy seed also be numbered.
Gen 13:15-16 (NKJV) for all the land which you see I give to you and your descendants forever. And I will make your descendants as the dust of the earth; so that if a man could number the dust of the earth, then your descendants also could be numbered.
The seed refers to Abraham's descendants as how the NKJV translated seed. This is just one of Paul's numerous lies and distortion of the word of God!
For other instances of 'seed' in Tanakh - Gen 15:5-6; 16:10; 17:19; 18:18; 22:17; 2 Kings 11:1; 2 Chron 20:7. Compare the KJV with other translations like NKJV.
ReplyDeleteTo be saved.... But Jesus said "you should have done those things without having left the others undone."
ReplyDeleteJesus will turn those away from the kingdom that practice lawlessness. You are decieiving yourself if you think the commandments of God are done away with.
This Protestant Antinomian theory is a bunch of rubbish concocted by sabbatarian Christians. Protestants do not teach lawlessness, in fact they warn about "cheap grace". Some of what we might call "lapsed" Protestants practice lawlessness, but that goes against what their churches teach. Same with Catholics. There are observant Catholics, and there are lapsed Catholics. Kind of like Armstrongites who watch TV on the sabbath, cheat on their tithes, wear unapproved hair styles, listen to rock, rap, and country western music, and blaspheme their apostles (that last one was a joke, so feel free to laugh as opposed to turning up your nose with a side to side headshake and withering self-righteous sneer).
ReplyDeleteBB
WHAT PAUL SAID:
ReplyDeleteROM 11:26-27 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:
“The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”
WHAT PAUL SHOULD HAVE SAID IF HE REALLY WAS A PHARISEE (AND NOT A LIAR):
ISA 59:20-21 “The Redeemer will come to Zion,
And to those who turn from transgression in Jacob,”
Says the Lord. “As for Me,” says the Lord, “this is My covenant with them: My Spirit who is upon you, and My words which I have put in your mouth, shall not depart from your mouth, nor from the mouth of your descendants, nor from the mouth of your descendants’ descendants,” says the Lord, “from this time and forevermore.”
Paul was misquoting Isaiah 59:20! He was twisting scriptures, God's word, by saying that the Messiah will take away Israel's sins! What is being conveyed in Isaiah is that the Messiah will come when Israel put aside their sins!
All this discussion on "covenants".
ReplyDeleteAs if any of you ever read or understands google and facebook's "user conditions" before submitting the data of your entire life, e-mail contents, blogposts and whereabouts to them. Reading this discussion so far it seems Paul would be hired as a corporate lawyer by them.
nck
WHAT PAUL SAID ...
ReplyDeleteGAL 3:22-25 But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.
WHAT A REAL, HONEST PHARISEE WOULD HAVE TAUGHT ABOUT THE MESSIANIC AGE ...
EZE 37:24 “David My servant shall be king over them, and they shall all have one shepherd; they shall also walk in My judgments and observe My statutes, and do them.
According to Paul, once the messiah arrives, we would no longer be under the law. This is opposite of what is prophesied in the messianic age! The Torah will continue to be observed and obeyed!
WHAT PAUL SAID ...
ReplyDeleteGAL 4:21-31
Paul's parable is about Replacement Theology. He likens the Jews to the son of Hagar, the bondwoman, as he believes those under the Sinai covenant are under bondage. Didn't Paul know that Ishmael was not part of the Sinai covenant? The Christians are liken to the son of the free woman born according to spirit. In verse 29, he said that the Jews have been persecuting the Christians. What?
IS THE LAW DONE AWAY? ARE THOSE KEEPING THE LAW IN BONDAGE?
EZE 37:24 David My servant shall be king over them, and they shall all have one shepherd; they shall also walk in My judgments and observe My statutes, and do them.
DEU 10:12-13 “And now, Israel, what does the Lord your God require of you, but to fear the Lord your God, to walk in all His ways and to love Him, to serve the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul, and to keep the commandments of the Lord and His statutes which I command you today for your good?
JOSHUA 1:7-8 Only be strong and very courageous, that you may observe to do according to all the law which Moses My servant commanded you; do not turn from it to the right hand or to the left, that you may prosper wherever you go. This Book of the Law shall not depart from your mouth, but you shall meditate in it day and night, that you may observe to do according to all that is written in it. For then you will make your way prosperous, and then you will have good success.
PSALM 1:1-3 Blessed is the man
Who walks not in the counsel of the ungodly,
Nor stands in the path of sinners,
Nor sits in the seat of the scornful;
But his delight is in the law of the Lord,
And in His law he meditates day and night.
He shall be like a tree
Planted by the rivers of water,
That brings forth its fruit in its season,
Whose leaf also shall not wither;
And whatever he does shall prosper.
See also 1 Kings 2:3; Neh 9:13-14; Ecc 12:13; Isa 48:18; Ps 19:7-11
lists the 613 commandments in the Torah- directly from the first 5 books of the Bible.
ReplyDeleteWhile not all scholars agree on what is included in the list- they are all in the Bible
Do a search and you will find the list I found
Remember there is a lot of fake “facts “ out there
Thanks very interesting blog!
ReplyDelete11:10 It's refreshing to see someone else understands just how Paul twisted scripture to accommodate his views. As you seem to understand, If Paul was a Pharisee, he was like no Pharisee would ever have been. He did not read scripture like one nor argue as one. He tried, but failed often. On top of that he did not use the Hebrew to do it. He seems to have loved the Greek version.
ReplyDeleteIn Acts 23 Paul says he was arrested for his belief in the resurrection. A ploy to divide the Pharisees who believed in one with the Saducees who did not. But the real reason was given in Acts 21. He lied to King Agrippa as well about his calling.
Many theologians feel that it was Paul who the Ephesians, in the letter to the Ephesians in Revelation , Jesus commended the church for exposing as a false Apostle.
Rev 2: "I know your works, your labor, your patience, and that you cannot bear those who are evil. And you have tested those who say they are apostles and are not, and have found them liars;"
Paul admitted that " You are aware that all who are in Asia turned away from me, among whom are Phygelus and Hermogenes." The Ephesian Church would be in Asia of the day. 2 Tim 1:15
The reason this topic is so convoluted and the cause of so many arguments over what Paul taught or meant is just these kinds of reasonings from Paul himself in his attempt to define his Gospel (Galatians 1) as apart from that of the Jerusalem Apostles, Peter, James and John. As I have said numerous times, the Book of James is a Rebuttal of Paul's Book of Romans which is why people today read both and see both arguments for law and grace and works and whatever as necessary or not.
I would suggest "Paul the Mythmaker" by Hyam Jaccoby for an introduction to "The Problem With Paul."
con't
ReplyDeletePaul lied to James about how he would bring Gentiles into the Church in Acts 15. He was told to teach not eating meat offered to idols etc and yet in I Corinthians he told the church differently and that "in all men, (James) there was not that (his) knowledge."
Christianity was fundamentally a Jewish sect back in the day. Jesus, the Messiah was to return soon. As it all grew long and not so, belief had to evolve and questions never before thought necessary to even ask had to be answered. From this evolution of thought on the meaning of Jesus we have all we see today from Funda-mental-isms to Catholocism and her wayward children. It is why, in part, WCG blew apart and a microcosm of the problems between Jewish Christianity and the Pauline Gentile version. HWA founded a modern Jewish version. JWT went with the gentile version that won the day over all in the last 2000 years. The chaos that followed was typical and predictable.
Basically management doesn't demand a hockey coach dismantle the rink and now put up hoops and teach Basketball. Especially when the hockey coach or player doesn't like basketball and didn't sign up to play it. :) Paul did the very same thing to Peter, James and John and demanded it of his gentile followers.
10:07 You gotta call me or we have to have lunch! You got it! Email me for number. "Paul-Making the Old Testament Mean What It Never Meant" :) "Matthew" was also an expert at this theological skill.
ReplyDeleteeh...Paul is easy to misrepresent....it's been happening since biblical days.
ReplyDeletehe clearly taught the Church to obey God's instructions, as recorded in the scriptures.
However too, there are many excellent studies and books available on the conflict between Paul and the Jewish Jerusalem Apostles. Paul the Mythmaker got me thinking outside the box of Paul/James and WCG years ago and was a place to start. Others have well taken up the challenge of Paul. Lillian Freudmann's "Anti Semitism and the New Testament" is a tour de force on Paul and how he used the Old Testament scriptures, or misused them, to construct his Gospel views of Jesus. She does so in agonizing detail and is a great study. The book is paperback, rare and very expensive. Chewie the Shi Tzu got ahold of my copy back in the day and I simply bandaged it back up as it is a keeper! :)
ReplyDeleteIt is interesting to read about the differences between the apostles.
ReplyDeleteOf course the big elephant in the room is that the Jews produced 3 or 4 historical Messiah's around the birth of the one we now call Christ.
Nck
Do any of the books go into why the books in the Bible were selected
ReplyDeleteThe COGs teach that Peter put them together and then finalized them and added his writings
This conflicts with Paul being at odds with the original apostles
No doubt because 2 Peter refers to Paul's letters as if people study those messages in a collection already by such an early date.
DeleteWhat I wrote - "The '613 commandments' you referred to are NOT found in the Torah. The number is mentioned in the Talmud,..."
ReplyDeleteThe point is where does it says you have to keep 613 commandments? Does the Torah lists 613 commandments? Different rabbis in different times would list the 613 and they are not all the same.
Let's take Lev 19:18b "but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the Lord.". One can count that as two - 'love yourself' and 'love your neighbor'. How about feeding the hungry? Isn't this part of loving your neighbor as yourself? How about the Sabbath? At least two - 'do not work on the Sabbath' and 'rest on the Sabbath'. Do we really want to count the commandments and be in danger of becoming engrossed in counting brownie points?
If one would attempt to count, he may come up with a different number. One of the explanations for the 613 number is Gen 32:4 where Jacob said 'I have dwelt with Laban'. The word 'dwelt' comes from the Hebrew 'garti' whose numerical value (Gematria) totals 613 = 3(gimmel) + 200(resh) + 400(tav) + 10(yod). The rabbis interpreted this verse as Jacob saying he kept all 613 of the Torah commandments while with Laban and before he came back to the promised land. Check Lev 18:18 :).
The law keeping of the pharisees is the benchmark for Christians (Mt 5:20). When it comes to the Torah, the Pharisees are the experts. That's according to Paul and why he kept on pretending and claiming to be a pharisee.
8:36, Wasn't it Constantine who decided which books were to be put in the cannon, along with whomever was with him at the time? Different cultures included different books than others, such as the Ethiopians. Some wanted this book included and others said no, they don't want that one because it isn't important enough. If the Bible doesn't have all the books, then in my view, it isn't complete, one does not have all the information. What else should have been included and wasn't, what is the rest of the story?
ReplyDeleteAnon 8:14
ReplyDeleteNo, it wasn't Constantine ... according to Bart Ehrman. He said this in his discussion 'The Truth About the Da Vinci Code' at University of North Carolina Asheville.
Here's the video of that discussion (topic regarding Constantine starts at 18:18 mark)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ml5H7CET-LM