One thing the Church of God has never run short on is an endless stream of windbags who think their prophetic and doctrinal positions are the only correct version possible. Ever bound to the legalistic laws that Christ overturned and made unnecessary for New Covenant followers, these angry little guys spout out endless streams of doctrinal errors and utterly silly predictions.
The Chief Pharisee, James Malm, is not happy that the United Church of God is ignoring his blather on the calendar issues that he thinks is important, which it is not. How dare they ignore him! How can they ignore such a zealous COG prophet who spends endless hours a day parked at his kitchen table cranking out silly articles, booklets and narrating "fireside" chats?
15 Jan- UCG- For the record I did write Mario as head of the Doctrinal Committee who was teaching contrary to doctrine, not just once but twice before posting the UCG Calendar Chaos and Fraudulent Calendar Papers article. Then I wrote him a note to announce the publication. At no time did he have the common courtesy to even reply. This article has now been read well over 600 and approaching 700 times and is having an affect across the big three.It is truly laughable if Malm thinks his blithering nonsense is having a huge impact across the three "big" COG's. They could care less about his bastardization of the law and his requirements.
Maybe the following video can help the Chief Pharisee find a new wife and influence UCG into listening to him...or anyone else, for that matter.
" Ever bound to the legalistic laws that Christ overturned and made unnecessary for New Covenant followers,..."
ReplyDeleteand just what would those laws be?
That's well asked, Anonymous 4:47 AM. "What would those laws be?" I don't see where He did away with what most believe He did away with. Unless, "For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished" (Matthew 5:18) and "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill"(Matthew 5:17) mean something different than what they state. In this world of upside down, I suppose people can twist them to say what they want them to say.
Delete:>(
Isn't Malm the guy giving everyone advice on how to finger women?
ReplyDeleteNo fan of Malm, but he ain't wrong about UCG's calendar mess. The calendar issue is maybe the biggest example of the inanity of Armstrongism.
ReplyDeleteSo,you follow a more authentic calendar??
DeleteThere is no calendar. Bible says to use sun and the moon.
DeleteThe Jews were given the calendar and the days to observe. Still ineffect .
DeleteControl is based on need. If you are the one with "need" , then you are going to be controlled and also dismissed by the object of desire.
ReplyDeleteWorks in business too. You need to understand that the client needs your product or service, MORE than you need to have them as a client. Otherwise, you will tend to underprice your product, or over promise service.
Transactionally, we all need an ADULT - ADULT relationship in all areas of our life. COGS have tended to view the brethren as "them needing us" and transactionally as an ADULT - CHILD relationship.
Yes we need Adult to Adult, not Adult to child communication. The I'm OK you're not OK type of relationship and preaching has got to go. Control produces passivity and anxiety. Controlling people means you have no love for them.
DeleteThe whole calendar thing is a big waste of time
ReplyDeleteBecause you say so? Without telling time you can't keep the Sabbath. Which god says was a law broke y Israel and was one of the reasons Israel was sent into captivity.
Delete
ReplyDeleteAnonymous at 10:46 AM said...“No fan of Malm, but he ain't wrong about UCG's calendar mess. The calendar issue is maybe the biggest example of the inanity of Armstrongism.”
James Malm's calendar confusion is one of his favorite inane confusions.
UCG has ignored Bible-based objections by some of its own members. So why should it treat James Malm any differently?
ReplyDeleteI have never understood what the big deal about the calendar is, really.
ReplyDeletePeople can see the sun go down on the sixth day of the week, and begin the seventh day of rest.
There are groups all over the world now observing the very first crescent moon when it appears, usually just west of the Int'l dateline.
I have been observing the crescent moon to start our months since around 2002. It's simple. The only real issue to hammer out is when the first month actually begins based on several factors, like the ripeness of the barley and the roads are able to be used. Not rocket science. Better than using dicked up pagan postponements, and the Hillel II calculated calendar which did not come into effect until about 359AD.
PS: I have ZERO idea what Malm teaches. I never heard of the guy until I found Banned about two years ago. I'm a long-time EX member of the WCG and various other split-offs, with a little bit of AC time under my belt, sadly.
Imagine if some of us who write here took offense that none of the ACOG leaders paid any attention to us. Actually, most of us probably expect them not to, because that's the way they are, and it's what they do.
ReplyDeleteWhat gives a man such hyper-ego? I've been saying for years that all of these prophets and apostles, and other "leaders" have absolutely no sense of embarrassment. Somewhere along the way, they have lost the capacity for that. What they are doing is equivalent to a musician setting up a concert, and then not being able to play a single note correctly for the paltry few who would come to listen to them perform. No, wait, it would be even worse, like expecting virtuoso musicians to come to listen and appreciate all of the wrong notes, and to sign up for lessons!
What's true is that if these self-important dudes were special, talented, or touched by God, at the very least they would be successful! Then, the positive energy would flow. But it never does, in spite of the continuance of their own delusions. To paraphrase John, time should have actually told them what they really need to know about their so-called ministries.
BB
5:31,
ReplyDeleteThe Law taught animal sacrifices, do you do that? the Law taught women to separate from their families each month during their period. The Law taught living under temporary structures of tree limbs and boughs during the Feast. Do you do any of that? if not, can you claim being a lawkeeper? No.
9:52pm So, since it's so simple then everyone should abide by your calendar then? Actually your stance is exactly why there are arguments on the calendar. If everyone would just keep the calendar that they are convicted of, and allow others to do the same, without condemnation, then maybe the arguments will cease.
ReplyDeleteBefore anyone tells me that there is no calendar I'll say this, if ee're told to do something on the fourteenth day of the first moon, then the fifteenth through seven days. If we're told to count fifty days. If we're told todo something on the first, the tenth and the fifteenth days of the seventh month, then there damn well is a calendar in the bible. Just no specifics on when it begins.
Before anyone tells me that there is no calendar I'll say this, if ee're told to do something on the fourteenth day of the first moon, then the fifteenth through seven days. If we're told to count fifty days. If we're told todo something on the first, the tenth and the fifteenth days of the seventh month, then there damn well is a calendar in the bible. Just no specifics on when it begins.
ReplyDeleteJanuary 17, 2020 at 6:36 AM
You kinda made my point. I can see the sun and moon with my own eyes, as well as other people can half way around the planet.
7:23am No, I didn't make your point because your point was clearly that anyone using the Hillel is wrong, my point was for you to keep the days as you conclude and allow another to keep the days as he concludes, without judgement.
ReplyDeleteYour comment about dicked up pagan postponements is far from the point! Nor can you prove that they're pagan or dicked up (whatever you mean by that, might as well just say it, fucked up).
Anonymous said...
ReplyDelete7:23am No, I didn't make your point because your point was clearly that anyone using the Hillel is wrong, my point was for you to keep the days as you conclude and allow another to keep the days as he concludes, without judgement.
Your comment about dicked up pagan postponements is far from the point! Nor can you prove that they're pagan or dicked up (whatever you mean by that, might as well just say it, fucked up).
January 17, 2020 at 9:13 AM
Actually you very much made my point.
No one can tell what you mean from your inane babbling. Either there is a proper way of tracking time (calendar) or there is not. It seemed to work fine from Moses, up to the time of the Messiah, and all the way to 359AD. If you don't think changing times and laws is pagan, well so be it.
And I can tell by your tone from your response that you really have no idea what the postponements actually are. Do you know how many postponements exist and when they are applied? I do.
Plus, I don't give a flying flip what others do. I am not here to judge anyone. My comments were directed towards the article about Malm, not you.
Man, I just shot a deer to last us a week before we move to other hunting areas. Then I saw hordes of immigrants with huge friendly horned animals moving into our abode. They have strange tools and look like they are building houses in order to stay. How stupid, as snow shows up some time in the year every time the elders prophecy.
ReplyDeleteI saw they were burying dead people under stones while pointing sticks at the fireball sky God, moving the stones until they were satisfied. They seemed very exact in their pointing and not easily satisfied with the allignments of the stones.
Let's pray the sun Sky fireball god will rise tomorrow and chase them away with its burning rays.
If they stay I may have to move myself to my distant cousins in Kirabati and Tonga. I heard the "stick people" find it too far to find the islands in the midst of time.
Nck
4:18pm Also, how do you know that God didn't tell Moses that when he saw the seventh crescent moon, if it fell on the first day or the fourth day or the sixth day of the week to wait one day before calling the seventh month? You don't!
ReplyDeleteYou don't know if this was a tradition handed down from Moses or not!
As for the other postponements, since they weren't able to tell if the New Moon (conjunction) occurred at noon or in the middle of the night I highly doubt that they were used in the beginning, but how do you know that God didn't give the Jews the authority to make such rules? You don't.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending the Hillel II calendar or the postponements, I'm just saying what authority do you have to establish a calendar for anyone other than yourself, and how do you know that you are cotrect? Again, you don't!
I've often said that the Karaite caendar is most likely the closest to the calendar that God gave Moses, but we have no way of knowing.
You say that you don't judge others yet you're quick to say that anyone who follows the Hillel II calendar are using a pagan dicked up calendar. That is judging whether you want to admit it or not.
Anon Jan 17 @5:52am said: The Law taught animal sacrifices, do you do that? the Law taught women to separate from their families each month during their period. The Law taught living under temporary structures of tree limbs and boughs during the Feast. Do you do any of that? if not, can you claim being a lawkeeper? No.
ReplyDeleteLev 17:10-11 If anyone of the house of Israel or of the aliens who reside among them eats any blood, I will set my face against that person who eats blood, and will cut that person off from the people. For the life of the flesh is in the blood; and I have given it to you for making atonement for your lives on the altar; for, as life, it is the blood that makes atonement.
The above passage states that the sacrifice is done only on the altar, in the Temple. No Temple, no sacrifice.
Lev 15 lists bodily discharges that make one ritually unclean. No Temple, no ritually unclean.
Lev 23:42 You shall dwell in booths for seven days. All who are native Israelites shall dwell in booths,
The 'native Israelites' is translated from Hebrew 'ezrach' meaning native. Other translations have native-born. It's up to the person how to interpret this. No one would want those who live in booths to judge others who do not. Those who do not should also not judge those who do.
Anon Jan 18 @6:17am said, Also, how do you know that God didn't tell Moses that when he saw the seventh crescent moon, if it fell on the first day or the fourth day or the sixth day of the week to wait one day before calling the seventh month? You don't!
ReplyDeleteYou don't know if this was a tradition handed down from Moses or not!
Unlikely. If it is a tradition handed down from Moses, would you know of any historical record the postponement was used in the 1st or 2nd Temple times?
Here is a portion of Midrash regarding Rosh Hashanah (Tanakh never calls it as such. The name used is Yom Teruah/Day of Shouting/Blast). The orthodox Jews believe Adam was created on Rosh Hashanah. Genesis tells us Adam was created on the sixth day. They do not have postponements yet when they wrote this midrash.
Midrash Vayikra Rabbah 29:1
… It comes out that you say on Rosh Hashanah (the first of Tishrei in the first year) in the first hour, [man's creation] rose in thought; in the second, [God] consulted with the angels; in the third,…
Here is an example of two groups deciding the sighting of the new moon. The priests were controlled by the Sadducees. The court was by the Pharisees.
Mishnah Tractate Rosh Hashanah
If a father and a son have seen the new moon, they should both go [to Jerusalem], not that they can join together as witnesses but so that if one of them is disqualified the other may join with another witness. Rabbi Shimon says that a father and son and all relatives are eligible to testify to the appearance of the new moon. Rabbi Yose said: it happened once that Tobias the doctor saw the new moon in Jerusalem along with his son and his freed slave. The priests accepted his evidence and that of his son and disqualified his slave. But when they appeared before the court they accepted his evidence and that of his slave and disqualified his son.
5:52,
ReplyDeleteYou don't know what I do. The point isn't about what "I" am doing. The point was, " Ever bound to the legalistic laws that Christ overturned and made unnecessary for New Covenant followers,..."
'and just what would those laws be?'
We do the best we can without a current temple and while in diaspora. Don't mention to some in a COG that circumcision is good for an 8 day old boy or you might be sorely attacked and love goes right out the door. There is a hatred of law. Thus , a hatred of what God said.
Jesus fulfilled the laws. He told his followers to keep his commandments, and gave two of them, love for God and love for fellow man. And then, Armstrong comes up with this theory that Jesus was the God of the Old Testament, making the leap that Jesus was the author of Levitical law, so it's still in force except of course the parts that HWA said were done away. "Done away" isn't the correct term. "Fulfilled" is.
ReplyDeleteI suppose that the Karaitey Kid (above) isn't the only one with a favorite calendar. But, the point is holy time is a very specific place in time. Just like holy ground. The priest was to die if he entered the Holy of Holies on the wrong day. Guessing doesn't cut it.
12:36am In case you didn't get the memo there is no Aaronic High Priest anymore, nor a physical temple, so your point is ridiculous!
ReplyDeleteAnon 10:29am,
ReplyDeleteI'm sure Anon 12:36am got the memo before he posted his comment. His point was the Law is not done away. Check Eze 37:24. The first part of Eze 37 is the Valley of Dry Bones.
Hos 3:4-5 For the children of Israel shall abide many days without king or prince, without sacrifice or sacred pillar, without ephod or teraphim. Afterward the children of Israel shall return and seek YHVH their God and David their king. They shall fear YHVH and His goodness in the latter days.
The Jews know that for 'many days' the Davidic king, sacrificial system and role of High Priest (ephod, Lev 8:6-8) would be suspended until the complete restoration in the Messianic Age. Are the Jews in a perpetual state of sin because there is no sacrificial system? Hos 14:2 states they will offer sacrifices (Heb parim, literally young bull or steer) of their lips, i.e., repentance and prayer (cf 1 Ki 8:46-50; Ps 51:15-17; 1 Sam 15:22; Isa 66:1-2; Mic 6:6-8). Read Lev 1:1-6:7 to see what sins are only covered by sacrifices. Lev 6:1-7 list a handful of sins that can be forgiven by self-confession and restitution. Num 15:27-31 state there is NO sacrifice for presumptuous or intentional sin! Read the entire Ezekiel 18 to see what YHVH requires.
Eze 37:15-17 Again the word of YHVH came to me, saying, “As for you, son of man, take a stick for yourself and write on it: ‘For Judah and for the children of Israel, his companions.’ Then take another stick and write on it, ‘For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel, his companions.’ Then join them one to another for yourself into one stick, and they will become one in your hand.
Eze 37:21-22 “Then say to them, ‘Thus says Adonai YHVH: “Surely I will take the children of Israel from among the nations, wherever they have gone, and will gather them from every side and bring them into their own land; and I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king over them all; they shall no longer be two nations, nor shall they ever be divided into two kingdoms again.
Eze 37:24 “David My servant shall be king over them, and they shall all have one shepherd; they shall also walk in My judgments and observe My statutes, and do them.
Eze 37:28 The nations also will know that I, YHVH, sanctify Israel, when My sanctuary is in their midst forevermore.” ’ ”
Eze 43:18-19 And He said to me, “Son of man, thus says Adonai YHVH: ‘These are the ordinances for the altar on the day when it is made, for sacrificing burnt offerings on it, and for sprinkling blood on it. You shall give a young bull for a sin offering to the priests, the Levites, who are of the seed of Zadok, who approach Me to minister to Me,’ says the Adonai YHVH.
My point was that being in sync with God's ordained holy time is the only way in which man can be fully pleasing to God in keeping the rituals. If God's going to kill one of his priests for entering the inner sanctum on the wrong day, but won't kill him for not going in at all, then the eternal lesson or principle involved should only be obvious, temple, priesthood, or not. I did not deliberately intend for my point to go over your head as some sort of trap or something. No hostility was intended at all, yet you responded like a splinter group minister. Tessa is right! Adult to adult.
ReplyDelete4:30pm, so... You're in sync with "God's ordained holy time" while those who use the "dicked up" Hillel II calendar should be killed for getting it wrong, or for not consulting you. What arrogance!
ReplyDeletePerhaps you should go back and re-read all the posts to find out who is acting like the child! You're the one implying that you know which calendar is God's, not I.
Here I thought that God looks on the heart. It's a good thing we have you to correct us. Now which calendar is not the "dicked up" one?
"Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteAnon 10:29am,
I'm sure Anon 12:36am got the memo before he posted his comment. His point was the Law is not done away."
Really? I guess Paul didn't know what he was talking about in Galatians 3. Sorry but the Mt. Sinai covenant was most certainly done away!
"I suppose that the Karaitey Kid (above) isn't the only one with a favorite calendar."
ReplyDeleteNo hostility intended? Sure!
"Not rocket science. Better than using dicked up pagan postponements, and the Hillel II calculated calendar"
ReplyDeleteAgain, no, no hostility intended. You just wanted to show us that you have the correct calendar and the rest are just "dicked up"!
Anon 5:45am said, Really? I guess Paul didn't know what he was talking about in Galatians 3. Sorry but the Mt. Sinai covenant was most certainly done away!
ReplyDeleteJer 31:33-34, "But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says YHVH: I will put My TORAH in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know YHVH,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says YHVH." (cf Eze 11:19-21)
Deu 12:32-13:5a, “Whatever I command you, be careful to observe it; you shall not add to it nor take away from it. … But that prophet or that dreamer of dreams shall be put to death, because he has spoken in order to turn you away from YHVH your God, …
What Paul said in Gal 3:6, just as Abraham “believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”
What Tanakh said
Gen 15:4-6, And behold, the word of YHVH came to him, saying, “This one shall not be your heir, but one who will come from your own body shall be your heir.” Then He brought him outside and said, “Look now toward heaven, and count the stars if you are able to number them." And He said to him, “So shall your descendants (Heb zera, H2233) be.” And he [Abram] believed (Heb amin) in YHVH, and He accounted it to him for righteousness (Heb tzedakah).
Gen 26:4-5(NASB), I will multiply your descendants (Heb zera, H2233) as the stars of heaven, and will give your descendants (Heb zera, H2233) all these lands; and by your descendants (Heb zera, H2233) all the nations of the earth shall be blessed; because Abraham obeyed Me and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes and My TORAH.”
Paul was prooftexting by quoting Gen 15:6 and omitting Gen 26:4-5. Is it enough to have a confession of faith and do nothing? The following 3 passages tell us what righteousness involves (All 3 are action-oriented).
Deu 6:25, Then it will be righteousness (Heb tzedakah) for us, if we are careful to observe all these commandments before YHVH our God, as He has commanded us.’ (cf Gen 18:19)
Deu 24:13, You shall in any case return the pledge to him again when the sun goes down, that he may sleep in his own garment and bless you; and it shall be righteousness to you before YHVH your God. (see also Lev 19:18)
Ps 106:30-31, Then Phinehas stood up and intervened, And the plague was stopped. And that was accounted to him for righteousness To all generations forevermore.
Hab 2:4b, But the just/righteous (Heb tzadik) shall live by his faith (Heb emunah, root word is aman).
Note that I've used NASB above in Gen 26:4-5 because other translations, such as NKJV, suddenly use 'seed' for the Hebrew zera in the phrase 'by your zera all nations shall be blessed' to make it appear christological. The Hebrew zera appears 3 times in Gen 26:4. See also how the Hebrew zera is used in Gen 13:16 (thy seed/offspring/descendants as the dust …), Gen 16:10 (I will multiply your seed/offspring/descendants exceedingly …), Gen 17:19 (with his seed/offspring/descendants after him). Now, what did Paul say in Gal 3:16?
4:52pm
ReplyDeleteGal 3:19 - Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come...
Notice the word "till" that means the law (Mt. Sinai covenant in this context) will cease once the Seed (Jesus) comes.
Don't assume that I'm saying that the Sabbath ends, nor any of God's other laws and commands, I believe that they've been in existence since the Garden of Eden. I'm saying the old Mt. Sinai covenant, which was added because of transgressions, ended when Jesus came.
BTW, I said nothing about Gal. 3:16, I merely said Gal. 3 but I was obviously referring to Gal. 3:19. Till the Seed should come. Till means the Mt. Sinai covenant terminates when the Seed comes.
If you want to keep the Mt. Sinai covenant then I hope you go to Jerusalem for the Feasts. Especially if you're male.
Deu 16:16 - Three times in a year shall all thy males appear before the LORD thy God in the place which he shall choose;
4:52pm Also, Abraham in Gen. 26:5 was not keeping the Mt. Sinai covenant. God's law and the Mt. Sinai covenant are two different things. The Mt. Sinai covenant ended about 2,000 years ago.
ReplyDeleteMaybe you didn't get that memo. ;-)
Anon 4:29am and 4:35am,
ReplyDeleteThis is what you wrote on January 20, 2020 at 5:45 AM:
"Anonymous said...
Anon 10:29am,
I'm sure Anon 12:36am got the memo before he posted his comment. His point was the Law is not done away
Really? I guess Paul didn't know what he was talking about in Galatians 3. Sorry but the Mt. Sinai covenant was most certainly done away!
The 'memo' thing is started by someone (you?) who wrote on January 19, 2020 at 10:29 AM:
12:36am In case you didn't get the memo there is no Aaronic High Priest anymore, nor a physical temple, so your point is ridiculous!
As you can see, the 'memo' thing was about there's no more Aaronic HP and physical temple, not the Sinai covenant. That's why I responded by quoting Hos 3:4-5 where it's prophesied these would be suspended until the Messianic Age. Also, the focus was about the Law not done away. That's what Gal 3 is trying to teach. I addressed it in my opening quote of Jer 31:33-34 where it says the Torah will be written on the hearts in the New Covenant. But I also addressed the issue with 'seed' in the last paragraph. These are sufficient to deal with Gal 3:19. Paul was teaching something that is contradictory to Scriptures, Tanakh. One has to prove that the Law is done away using Tanakh, not the words of Paul. He was attempting to do that by distorting Tanakh.
Also, regarding your Deu 16:16 quote on going to Jerusalem. I've said in a previous comment 'no Temple, no sacrifice' and 'no Temple, no ritually unclean'. Why do you need to go to Jerusalem? Not all Jews go there during the 3 chags. Does this mean the Sinai covenant is no longer existing?
Sinai Covenant: Ex 19:3-9, … "Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant, then you shall be a special treasure to Me above all people; for all the earth is Mine. And you shall be to Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation."…
New Covenant: Jer 31:31, “Behold, the days are coming, says YHVH, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah"
Who are the parties to both covenants? YHVH and the children of Israel (aka house of Israel and house of Judah). The phrase 'new covenant' is from the Hebrew 'brit chadashah', the only place where this is used. Chadashah is from 'chadash', meaning new, where 'chodesh' is also from. Chodesh is translated 'month' in Ex 12:2 and 'new moon' in 1 Sam 20:5. In biblical calendar, each month begins with a new moon (crescent moon). Do we have a 'new' moon every new moon? New moon can also be referred as renewed moon. The New Covenant can also be called 'Renewed Covenant'. Do one renew a vow with a different party? The New Covenant is an expansion of the existing Covenant.
cont...
ReplyDeleteYes, Israelites 'broke' the covenant: Jer 31:32, "not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke (Heb parar, H6565), though I was a husband to them," says YHVH.
Broke/parar is also used in Gen 17:14. An uncircumcised child is cut off and considered to have 'broken' the covenant. Does this mean the child is forever cut off and 'breaking' the covenant, even after he gets circumcised? In Lev 26:15, not performing the commandments is the same as breaking the covenant. Succeeding verses describe increasing punishment until Israelites repent.
Compare Jer 31:32 with Heb 8:9, not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord.
Jer 31:32 has ba'alti, meaning husband or master. Heb 8:9 has the Greek emelesa, meaning disregard.
Is it possible for YHVH to disregard Israel?
Jer 31:35-36, Thus says YHVH, who gives the sun for a light by day, the ordinances of the moon and the stars for a light by night, who disturbs the sea, and its waves roar (YHVH of hosts is His name): “If those ordinances depart from before Me", says YHVH, "Then the seed of Israel shall also cease from being a nation before Me forever.”
Jer 31:37, Thus says YHVH: “If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done", says YHVH.
What if Israel continues in its sins?
Lev 26:14-17, If Israel disobeys God …
Lev 26:18-20, After all the above and Israel still sins, God will punish them 7 times more
Lev 26:21-22 If Israel still sins, God will bring 7 times more plagues
Lev 26:23-26 And if Israel continues sinning, God will punish them 7 times
Lev 26:27-39 After all these and Israel still sins, God will chastise them 7 times
Lev 26:40-43 BUT IF they confess … God will remember His covenant …
Lev 26:44-45 … Yet for all that, when they are in the land of their enemies, I will not cast them away, nor shall I abhor them, to utterly destroy them and BREAK (Heb parar) My COVENANT WITH THEM; for I am YHVH their God. But for their sake I will remember the covenant of their ancestors, whom I brought out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the nations, that I might be their God: I am YHVH.’ ”
Did God divorce Israel?
Jeremiah 3:8, 1 Jeremiah uses a parable or metaphor to liken Israel’s sins to an adulterous woman who was put away by her husband. Since Deuteronomy 24:1-4 forbids the husband from taking back his ex-wife who had married another, it seems impossible for Israel to be restored as God’s spiritual wife. What is impossible for man is possible for God. Repeatedly in this chapter and elsewhere, God pleads with Israel to return to him - Jeremiah 3:1, 7, 12, 14, 22. Five times in chapter 3 alone!
11:06 AM
ReplyDeleteDid God divorce Israel?
Jeremiah 3:8, 1 Jeremiah uses a parable or metaphor to liken Israel’s sins to an adulterous woman who was put away by her husband. Since Deuteronomy 24:1-4 forbids the husband from taking back his ex-wife who had married another, it seems impossible for Israel to be restored as God’s spiritual wife. What is impossible for man is possible for God. Repeatedly in this chapter and elsewhere, God pleads with Israel to return to him - Jeremiah 3:1, 7, 12, 14, 22. Five times in chapter 3 alone!
Personally I adhere to a minority view of divorce and remarriage i.e. As a Christian I believe that divorce and remarriage is sin. I don't believe if I was married and later got a divorce that I am free to remarry. I believe the Christian Bible, particularly the NT, teaches marriage is for life "until death do us part." Thus, separation is allowed, but divorce and remarriage is not. So not until I die or my ex-spouse dies are either of us free to remarry "in the Lord." This means any marriage or sexual relationship that is entered in by either of us after our divorce is also in essence adultery. So according to my understanding, therefore, God seeking his first wife, Israel, to return to Him, despite her multiple adulterous relationships, is actually a principle hinted at in these OT verses and upheld in the NT.
11:30pm I'm not going to read all your garbage because you're obviously a Paul hater. Paul was not teaching against God's law in Gal. 3 he was teaching against the Old Mt. Sinai covenant.
ReplyDeleteThe covenant of Jer. 31 is not a continuation of the Mt. Sinai covenant, it's a continuation of the everlasting covenant. The everlasting covenant began before the foundation of the world when Christ was in effect crucified. The Promise covenant was a continuation of the everlasting covenant. But guess what? Because of Israel's transgressions, God had to make a side agreement, a side covenant, which the addition of was only to last until Christ came. That is what's Gal. 3 is all about and you are quite confused about Gal. 3!
Nowhere have I ever said that God's law ended, nor did Paul ever say that. It's sad that people like you who misunderstand the bible try to teach others, when you're the one needing the teaching. Much like Psalm 119 ministries. They haven't a clue about the law and the covenants yet so many look to them as teachers. Sad!
I've been a Sabbath and Feast keeper for over 50 years and will remain so until the day I die. Not because any covenant requires it of me, but because God requires it of me. Others will disagree, that's fine, but I sure dob't need you teaching me something that you obviously don't understand if you think Jer. 31 is a renewal of the Mt. Sinai covenant.
11:30 In case you didn't get the memo God did die, on the stake almost 2,000 years ago! Nullifying his marriage to Israel.
ReplyDelete8:23 AM said... “11:30 In case you didn't get the memo God did die, on the stake almost 2,000 years ago! Nullifying his marriage to Israel.”
DeleteSo is God the Father or Jesus, God’s Son, the husband of Israel? If the Father then does this mean God the Father is still married to Israel since it was the Son who died on the cross? If the Son then does this mean the Son entered in the marriage covenant with Israel in the OT as God? Also, what does this make the Church the Bride of Christ or the Body of Christ? If the Bride then how does God (Father or Son—which?) remarry Israel who was the Bride in the OT? If the Body then do we collectively as Christians remarry Israel in the millennium? These are just some questions I don’t have the answers to so am asking for anyone who can shed some light and clarity.
Well, I went ahead and read most of your garbage but I want to point out that once you said: "Paul was teaching something that is contradictory to Scriptures," you lost all credibility.
ReplyDeleteIf Paul taught against the Old Testament then you might as well throw out the entire bible because none of it has any credibility then.
I agree that New means a renewal, but your problem is that you think it means a renewal of the Mt. Sinai covenant when in reality it means a renewal of the Everlasting covenant, which the Promise covenant was a renewal or continuation of, and which the New Covenant in Jesus' blood is a continuation of.
Your misunderstanding is which covenant is being renewed. It is the Promise covenant that God made with Abraham, which was a continuation of the Everlasting covenant, which is the only covenant that promises salvation. The Mt. Sinai covenant was added because of transgressions til Jesus came and died for our salvation.
BTW It wasn't the Mt. Sinai covenant that made God a husband to Israel, it was the covenant of Promise which did that.
ReplyDeleteAnon 8:20am/8:23am/9:08am/9:17am,
ReplyDeleteIt was not 11:30pm who made those comments. Mine were 11:06am. For succeeding comments, I would appreciate if you can cite Tanakh verses to prove your assertions.
Anon said, Paul was not teaching against God's law in Gal. 3 he was teaching against the Old Mt. Sinai covenant.
Mt 5:17, “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law (Greek nomos, G3551) or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill."
Paul was using the Greek nomos in Gal 3 (e.g. Gal 3:2). The same word translated 'Law' in Mt 5:17. Almost all translations of Gal 3:2 render it 'law'. Why did Paul use nomos instead of diatheke if his intended meaning was the Sinai covenant? He used diatheke in Gal 3:15. The same word used in Heb 8 for covenant. Why did he write in v19 'law was added because of sin' instead of 'covenant was added because of sin'? Why did he write in v24 'law was tutor' instead of 'covenant was tutor'? In Rom 7:7, he stated he would have not known what sin was had it not been for the law? Based on this, how was the Sinai covenant, and not the law, a tutor and added because of sin? In v25, after faith comes, no one is under the tutor (covenant?/law? done away). Also, where in Tanakh does it say that the purpose of the Torah, or if you insist covenant, is to lead us to the messiah?
I can only conclude Paul really meant Law/Torah which he's saying was added in the Sinai covenant.
What's the attitude of Paul towards the law? Gal 3:2-3. For him, faith trumps law. Read my previous comment regarding Gal 3:6.
Gal 3:10, For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in ALL (Gk pas, all or every) things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.”
Deu 27:26 (NRSV), “Cursed be anyone who does not UPHOLD (Heb yaqim, to arise or stand up or stand) the words of this TORAH by observing them.”
The curse is not on people who fail to observe ALL of the commandments but on those who do not 'uphold' the commandments. One who doesn't accept the legitimacy or binding nature of the Torah. Others say it's impossible to keep Torah but why did God promise blessings to those who keep the Torah?
Gal 3:11 no one is justified (Gk dikaioo, declare righteous. YLT has righteous) by the law.
Deu 6:25, Then it will be righteousness (Heb tzedakah) for us, if we are careful to observe all these commandments before YHVH our God, as He has commanded us.’ (cf Gen 18:19)
Gal 3:16 I've touched on this above. Tanakh uses the Hebrew zera for seed/offspring/descendants. The plural of zera is zra'im which is not used in Tanakh for descendants. The cross references given by biblehub are Gen 12:7, 17:7 and 22:18. You can click the links to see how different translations render zera. The seed is not a descendant, but descendants.
cont...
ReplyDeleteAnon said, BTW It wasn't the Mt. Sinai covenant that made God a husband to Israel, it was the covenant of Promise which did that.
Do you know the Tanakh verse that describes God as husband prior to Sinai? I found these - Isa 54:5; Jer 3:20, 31:32; Eze 16:32; Hos 2:2, 7, 16; Joel 1:8. All after the Sinai covenant.
Anon said, I agree that New means a renewal, but your problem is that you think it means a renewal of the Mt. Sinai covenant when in reality it means a renewal of the Everlasting covenant, which the Promise covenant was a renewal or continuation of, and which the New Covenant in Jesus' blood is a continuation of.
What is the time setting of the New Covenant?
Jer 31:33-34 (ESV), For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares YHVH: I will put my torah within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people. AND no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know YHVH,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares YHVH. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”
Verse 34 starts with a Hebrew prefix vav signifying a conjunction. Aside from the Torah being written on the hearts, the New Covenant is described as a time when there would be no need to teach anyone about YHVH (Zech 8:23, 14:9; Isa 66:23, 45:23; Zep 3:9; Eze 38:23). How many people are still going around preaching? This period is still in the future, in the Messianic Age. Again, who are the other parties that YHVH is making this covenant with? Jer 31:31 says the house of Israel and house of Judah.
Eze 11:17-20, Therefore say, ‘Thus says Adonai YHVH: “I will gather you from the peoples, assemble you from the countries where you have been scattered, and I will give you the land of Israel.” ’ And they will go there, and they will take away all its detestable things and all its abominations from there. Then I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within them, and take the stony heart out of their flesh, and give them a heart of flesh, that they may walk in My statutes and keep My judgments and do them; and they shall be My people, and I will be their God.
Notice the similarities between Eze 11:17-20 and Jer 31:31-34. The covenant made at Sinai is ageless and is never to be superseded. It may be renewed and reinvigorated but never superseded by a new covenant that is the antithesis of the Mosaic Law.
Jer 32:37-42, Behold, I will gather them out of all countries where I have driven them in My anger, in My fury, and in great wrath; I will bring them back to this place, and I will cause them to dwell safely. They shall be My people, and I will be their God; then I will give them one heart and one way, that they may fear Me forever, for the good of them and their children after them. And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from doing them good; but I will put My fear in their hearts so that they will not depart from Me. Yes, I will rejoice over them to do them good, and I will assuredly plant them in this land, with all My heart and with all My soul.’
“For thus says YHVH: Just as I have brought all this great calamity on this people, so I will bring on them all the good that I have promised them."
Anon said, In case you didn't get the memo God did die, on the stake almost 2,000 years ago! Nullifying his marriage to Israel.
Can you provide Tanakh verses to support what you said?
What happened to Jesus' foreskin after his circumcision? Did it ascend to heaven, or did it decompose as with any human piece of flesh?
10:56pm Wow! You are so confused!
ReplyDelete10:56pm What does Immanuel mean? I might have missed that memo!
ReplyDeleteAre you saying that all people with the name Immanuel are gods? Even the late actress? Google theophory.
ReplyDeleteWho called the child Immanuel in Isa 7:14? How about in Mt 1:22-23? Here's what The Oxford Companion to the Bible has to say about the virgin birth.
I'm still waiting for you to give Tanakh verses to support your claims ...
"I'm still waiting for you to give Tanakh verses to support your claims"
ReplyDeleteI'm still waiting for you to educate yourself on the law and covenants!
Anon Jan31 @4:32am,
ReplyDeleteI'm the one the 8:23am comment was replying to. To understand where I'm coming from … I'm no longer part of ACOG and Christianity. Tanakh is the only scriptures/canon for me. I regard both NT and oral law as writings that need to be compared with or measured against Tanakh. You can click the highlighted texts below which would take you to online interlinears or Strong's.
To answer your questions: YHVH, God the Father, 'married' the children of Israel. YHVH is still the husband of Israel. YHVH is the only Elohim in Tanakh.
Ex 20:2-3, "I am YHVH your Elohim, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other elohim before Me" (Heb panaya, literally 'My face').
Ex 3:15, Moreover God said to Moses, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel: ‘YHVH, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you. This is My name forever, and this is My memorial to all generations.’"
According to Strong's concordance, the tetragrammaton, YHVH, appears 6828 times (6220 in H3068 + 608 in H3069). On average, that's about 6 to 7 entries per OT page. This shows the importance of the name of YHVH.
The Sinai covenant is between YHVH and the children of Israel.
Ex 19:7-8, So Moses came and called for the elders of the people, and laid before them all these words which YHVH commanded him. Then all the people answered together and said, “All that YHVH has spoken we will do.” So Moses brought back the words of the people to YHVH.
YHVH's relationship to Israel is both as a father and as a husband. He is a father to those who are born in the faith and a husband to those who joined the faith.
Jer 31:7-9b, For thus says YHVH: "… For I am a Father to Israel, and Ephraim is My firstborn." (cf Isa 64:8)
Ex 4:22, "Then you shall say to Pharaoh, ‘Thus says YHVH: “Israel is My son, My firstborn." (cf Deu 14:1)
Jer 3:14a, “Return, O backsliding children,” says YHVH; “for I am married to you. …"
Hos 2:16-17, “And it shall be, in that day,” says YHVH, “That you will call Me ‘My Husband,’ (Heb ishi) and no longer call Me ‘My Master,’ (Heb baali) For I will take from her mouth the names of the Baals, and they shall be remembered by their name no more.