Living Church of God members must still be struggling to be unified and friendly with each other. Its another lecture on working together and avoiding contentions and divisions.
Once again they get lectured about pride. Seriously? Take a look around the prideful and ambitious people in Charlotte who stab each other in the back in order to advance up.
Humility? In LCG? Seriously?
Keys to Working Together: One of the challenges of life is learning to work together with other people—in families, on the job, and in the Church. The Bible gives us instructions and examples to help us accomplish this vital task. Jesus built bridges with others by referring to His disciples as His “friends” and encouraging them to “love one another” (John 15:12–17). The Apostle Paul, who had his own challenges with this issue (Acts 15:36–41), learned that we must focus on the mission to be accomplished and not on each other’s opinions, ideas, actions, and faults. He referred to those who assisted as “my fellow workers” (Romans 16:3) and “fellow workers for the kingdom of God” (Colossians 4:11) and “workers together [co-workers] with Him” (2 Corinthians 6:1). Paul also urged believing Christians to “be perfectly joined together in the same mind” and to avoid contentions and divisions (1 Corinthians 1:10–13). Solomon reveals that pride and ambition are sources of contention (Proverbs 13:10), while Paul notes that humility, patience, and understanding are keys for working together (Romans 12:16–18). As disciples of Jesus Christ and followers of the Apostles, let’s strive to love one another and learn to work together humbly and peacefully as “fellow workers for the kingdom of God.”
Have a profitable Sabbath,
Douglas S. Winnail
My observation was that 'avoiding contentions and divisions' was used as a club against those who stood up for their rights at church.
ReplyDeleteIn my experience knowing Dr Doug Winnail, and he has a legit doctoral degree in the sciences, I always found him to be a gentle soul. Doug always seemed to want the peace in the church that proved so elusive under the Armstrong and Tkach scandals and reckless changes. This reflects, it seems to me, his own ongoing frustration with all the behind the scenes issues in LCG. It's not in his nature to thrive on conflict and drama as is the custom and seeming need of some. . Church should be the safe place and not the source of all misery and upheaval in one's life. Doug reflects this view in this plea for love, unity and all that the church should be.
ReplyDeleteOf course, it has always been this way or there would not be so many scriptures encouraging people to do all these positive things and quit being buttheads. It been division, controversy and who's in charge and let me think about if I like that or not from the beginning. The "True Church" broke down very quickly from inception as reflected in the NT.
Frankly, it is and always will be for any group to be of the same mind all speaking the same thing. Utterly humanly impossible. It usually reflects the frustration of the one encouraging or demanding it over not being listened to, believed and obeyed. Paul was good at demanding others think like he did. The concept of doing so because someone says so is contemptable
Dennis, this man with "a legit doctoral degree in the sciences" is a fervent teacher of BI, which tells us that he wasn't exactly paying attention in his classes. As for wanting peace, Doug created tension in LCG for many years with his passive-aggressive rebellion against Rod Meredith. Doug would back Rod into a corner and then leave Rod feeling forced to change one plan or another in order to create the appearance of unity. However, if a Regional Pastor tried to do the same, Doug demanded "peace" which meant "going along with Doug." It's no accident that Doug hasn't published the Parable of the Unforgiving Servant in his weekly message, at least not for a long time, if ever. Doug is a walking exemplar of "Do as I say, not as I do." He is actually one of the least "peaceful" men at LCG HQ, it's just that he is passive-aggressive, where others (e.g. the McNairs) are simply aggressive.
ReplyDeleteThe basic problem is that Armstrongism presents a totally unnecessary and unwarranted extra layer of authority over members, one that is absolute, but supposedly voluntarily accepted, sold and resold constantly as being "God's government on Earth". Your minister is your police officer, judge, and jury.
ReplyDeleteWhat members don't realize is that in reality, submissives actually have the control. "Their" authority only exists where you choose to accept it and allow them to get away with it. So, of course they are going to tout humility.
BB
BB
ReplyDeleteOnce a member becomes baptised, there is a massive power shift towards the minister. Most members need to attend church to be able to spiritually survive and prosper. Only the minority have the ability to go independent. With members salvation on this line, members lack the real choice of not accepting minister abuse. This is the ugly truth.
The splintering has helped in this regard, but has not eliminated the problem.
You only have the ministers to blame. They should be leading by example, and not listen to gossip about others or take sides. They should also treat everyone as equals and not have favorites. Especially on the NTBMO, they should invite the least of the members.
ReplyDeleteShame on them for letting this happen!
525 I would not dispute that. I knew Doug in college and in WCG ministry. These were my impressions at the time in that context. I know nothing of him in the LCG mode. Doug emailed me a few years back when he returned to Charlotte from being in charge of something overseas. He wanted to have lunch. I wrote back that I'd be pleased to see him again with all that has transpired since. I did not sense that Doug knew anything about my own conclusions drawn about WCG and Church/Bible in general and mentioned RCM might not be pleased. RCM returned an email I sent him when he was getting ill but thought I needed to repent etc. I did, or emailing him. Doug never got back to me.
ReplyDeleteI believe you
In the NT church I see each congregation under the leadership of multiple elders. AS long as there is a hierarchy there will be those who seek power and the money, perks and prestige that go with it. You want peace? Reorganize the church to the model of the NT. Apostle, prophets, evangelists, pastors are NOT ranks. They are different roles. One is not above others, they are standing side by side. This top down mentality, I think, is not Scriptural. IT brings out the worst in people.
ReplyDeleteMy first interaction with the WCG occurred when I was six years old. The suits came to my house and lectured my parents. My mom was told she was going to hell. Then the booklet "1975 in Prophecy" came out and my parents had the common sense to quit. Fast forward into the 80's and we got wrapped back up into the cult. I started in the WCG as an adult in 1986. I sat in RCM's Gospel class in Big Sandy in the late 80's. It was at that point I knew something was wrong with the WCG and I left AC. When everything went tits up with the WCG, I started (sadly) a GCG group in our home, which quickly grew into a "church" meeting site. This was one of the biggest mistakes of my life which I regret to this day and I will carry this until the day I die. From my actions, I still have innocent family members stuck in the LCG in Charlotte to this day. I could mention names here that everyone would recognize, including the Scarboroughs. (I do not know the Scarboroughs outside of Banned, but they know people I know).
ReplyDeleteI will always regret the day that I joined the GCG. I was the first in my State to do so. I left the GCG due to a confrontation with David Pack. I asked him one question about the calendar, and he said...."_____, this may not be the church for you." Myself and half of my family left that day.
LXX
jayrard said...
ReplyDeleteEspecially on the NTBMO, they should invite the least of the members.
**********
Actually they should do away with the man-made HWA tradition of NTBMO. The Bible is clear the NTBMO is Passover night not the holy eve of the 15th of FOUB.
LXX
ReplyDeleteThank you for your comments. I too have family members in an ACOG. You said one of the biggest mistakes you ever made was starting a RCG in your home. We all did what we thought was the right thing to do at the time. It is hard to unplug from the COG group think. I too sat in RCM’s bible classes. I preached what I had been taught for over 25 years. I never once preached a sermon I didn’t believe. There were a lot of good people—trying to live what they believed. Were there some not so good. I think so but it’s not for me to judge. LXX I think you did what you had to do. We all have to move on.
On another subject. This is my comment on another post by LXX. I am impressed by your aviation credentials. I was never a flight instructor. Sounds like you had some great flying jobs. My flight career was on the corporate side. I was fortunate to fly for a wealthy corporate businessman. One side benefit was practically an unlimited expense account. Got to eat in some of the nicest restaurants in the world. But like most good things it came to an end. I retired and now live a sedate life in Arizona.
I was pretty naive when I entered Ambassador College. I thought I was going to learn a better way to live my life. When I entered college I had three motor vehicles. An orange 53 Olds, with slicks and floor shift. A 55 2 door Chevy with floor shift, and a Royal Enfield motorcycle. Back home I had a 41 Willys and was building a fuel injected 401 Pontiac motor and B &M Hydro transmission for it. After dinner walking back to my dorm another classmate saw my orange Olds and commented, “what a gastly ugly car. Who would such a car. I never said a word that it was mine.
I think Byker Bob must have influenced me.
Later in life I rode a few motorcross bikes. I fell once on a track and landed on my ribs. I preached a sermon with my ribs taped up. Couldn’t lift mt left arm, but I managed. I was working the Rose Bowl Parade one year, I had gone hiking a few days earlier and had taken a pistol with me. I was loading rose parade supplies and remembered I had the pistol in the glove compartment. I took it out and was unloading it when I accidentally hit the hammer and it went off. Not very smart thing to do. I shot a hole through my left hand. Right through the palm. Drove myself to Huntington Hospital. In the emergency room they were going to give me a shot for the pain but I said no I had to work. It was about 10 pm. And I had to take supplies to the booths we were overseeing. So they poured a green antiseptic on a gauze and pushed it through the hole and taped it up.
Sorry about the long winded story. But when your 75, sitting on your patio and it is 78 degrees in Feb. not but else to do but tell a story. If you have not already skipped this I will continue.
Cont
Jim-AZ
Jim said,
ReplyDeleteAnyway after getting my hand taped, the police were waiting to talk to me. Anytime there is a gun shot victim, the hospital has to notify the police. I somehow convinced the police I was not a suspect in a crime I drove to a store and bought a pair of white work gloves. I only wore one on my left hand. I had not told anyone about my little mishap. I drove home and when I waked in the kitchen my wife said, what are you doing with that glove trying to look like Michael Jackson? And she grabbed the glove to pull it off. I almost went through the ceiling. Anyway after I calmed down I went back to work. I worked until about 8am till the parade started.
I was told that AC taught us how to live. Don’t know if my life has been typical or not.
Jim-AC
Influence? All I can say, Jim is that one thing you taught me about motorcycle etiquette, I've practiced my entire life. Came out of the dorm one night as you were about to go somewhere on your Enfield. Said Hi, as you were walking the bike out to the street and you explained that you always drifted it down the hill away from the dorms before firing it up, soas not to disturb anyone. If I'm making a beer run after say 10:00 PM, even today, I drift the bike down the block before firing it up. (You know. Loud pipes do save lives!)
ReplyDeleteActually! I think we had a lot of common interests with the hotrods and motorcycles, but since that was all considered to be carnal, we never really discussed them at length. Still, any time I could get my hands on a motorcycle at AC, I did.
Have you seen what the old Willys Americars are going for these days???
BB
Jim said
ReplyDeleteThanks for the comment. I wish could have spent some time together however, we would have gotten into trouble. I was a drag race fan. Before college I went to drag races all over So Cal. BB I don’t like to even think about how much one is worth today. I actually had two. One was a 4 door sedan that was in running condition. Had a 4 cyl. engine. I think my dad sold it to a junk yard. Maybe got 50.00.
Yes many things were considered carnal and vanity. I never lost my enjoyment of things most would consider evil or sinful.
One of the reasons I wrote what I did was to see how many self righteous COG people would consider these things wrong. I tried to follow the rules of AC. I took my “calling” serious. Before attending church and then being accepted to AC I smoked. I was 19, I smoked my last cigarette in Feb. 1964. At about 2am one morning I threw my last pack of cigarettes in the trash. I have never smoked anything since.
Even as a ministerial assistant, I built a 283 Chevy up to a 302, with high lift cam. That was my family car which I drove to church. When my daughter was was about 9 I bought her a Suzuki RM 50. I had a Honda Elsinore. Later I bought her a Honda CR 80. My wife had a Kawasaki KD 80. I had a Kawasaki KX 250. I took church kids out to the dessert and we all rode together. I went to some NASCAR races. I went to Atlanta, Rockingham, Martinsville, often with church members. I was never ashamed to let church members know I enjoyed these kinds of sporting events. I tried to set an example. One could enjoy riding or going to the Winter Nationals and still obey God.
Anyway BB glad you wrote and yes loud pipes save lives.
Jim-AZ
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteLXX
Thank you for your comments. I too have family members in an ACOG. You said one of the biggest mistakes you ever made was starting a RCG in your home
Hi Jim... It was a split off from Meredith, the GCG, not RCG. Pack came way after the GCG, which I started here because I sat in Meredith's Gospel class, which is a mistake I will carry with me for the rest of my life. Due to that decision I still have family trapped in the LCG.
I still fly, and mostly just teach new students which I enjoy.
When I was 17, I was riding my Honda to a party for a friend going away to college. It was dark and I was completely sober. I got hit head on by a drunk driver, and spent 14 days in the hospital flat on my back. My back was broken in several places along with my neck. Since I was so young and athletic, I was able to make a full recovery. The doctors were concerned about me being paralyzed. I don't ride motorcycles or road bikes any more.
LXX
"Actually they should do away with the man-made HWA tradition of NTBMO. The Bible is clear the NTBMO is Passover night not the holy eve of the 15th of FOUB.
ReplyDeleteFebruary 19, 2020 at 9:06 PM"
Actually the evening of the 15th is most definitely the NTBMO, it's the Passover being on the evening of the 14th that the WCG had wrong. The Passover lamb was killed in the afternoon of the 14th, the same time Jesus was crucified. Then it was eaten on the evening of the 15th which is the NTBMO.
5:25.....you've got him pegged! Couldn't have said it better. He is EXTREMLY passive aggressive with his back handed compliments and underhanded jabs. People tend to equate being soft spoken with humility...big mistake to do that!
ReplyDeleteRe NTBMO and Passover going by Christ’s own example I’d say it’s both on the night of the 14th since that was the night Christ and His disciples stayed awake late into the middle of the night. That was the night of much “observations” or “watchings” which even Christ instructed His disciples so ie to “watch” (Matthew 26:38, 40; Mark 14:34, 37-38). The following holy night He was already dead and buried. But, HWA/WCG and its offshoots have Armstrongists cooking up a multiple course fine meal on the holy night (because HWA decreed it so) and staying up till midnight on the wrong night.
ReplyDelete4:33 Christ on the evening that he was betrayed ate a meal with his disciples. Nowhere is it called the Passover. Earlier in that same day the disciples ask Christ where he would eat the Passover, and many assume the meal that night was the Passover but nowhere is that plainly stated. Jesus said that night that he had desired to eat the Passover with them, but he wouldn't eat it against n until it is fulfilled in the kingdom. He knew the Passover was the next night and that he wouldn't be alive to eat it. Why? Because he was the Passover which the lamb merely symbolized.
ReplyDeleteIf the time they killed the Passover was so critical that God would spell out exactly when to kill it "ben har arbayim" then it only makes sense that Christ had to die "ben har arbayim".
Let go of the assumptions that WCG taught and think about it.