Sometimes we have to have frank talks about church pastors. The following is not meant to hurt anyone’s feelings. It is for the purpose of helping Christians understand the role of pastors.
AND… it’s to help pastors understand that – too many times – they can’t see themselves as they really are.
Recently, a pastor I know posted an article on Facebook that was filled with self-pity. This man had basically been run off by his congregation for being oppressive in his pastoring of that church. The brutal truth is that the brethren just didn’t want him anymore.
Apparently, he feels that church people expect too much from pastors. He claimed the following:
—Congregations feel the pastor must be perfect and can never make a mistake.
—Congregations expect a pastor to be available 24/7.
—Congregations expect a pastor to never get angry.
—Congregations expect the pastor to do all the work.
—Congregations expect the pastor to never miss church.
—Congregations expect the pastor to never take a vacation.
—Congregations expect the pastor to never get sick.
—Congregations expect the pastor to not drive a car that’s too nice.
He then quotes from I Thessalonians 5:12-13 which says:
"Beloved Brothers, honor your leaders in the work of the Lord. They work hard among you and give them spiritual guidance. Have a lot of respect and of all heart show them love for the work they perform. And live in peace with each other."
In his post, he puts much emphasis on the pastor being THE LEADER.
And therein lies the problem. In his post, he never uses the word “servant”! He doesn’t understand that a pastor’s primary role is to be a SERVANT.
Oh, I’m sure he THINKS he is a servant. He thinks that his service is to be the boss – el jefe – the one who tells everyone how the church is to be run.
That is NOT the job of the pastor!
We must face the fact that the body of Christ is NOT divided into two classes: ministers and laypersons. That’s an outdated Catholic concept. Christians living in the year 2020 know better. Or at least, they should know better.
When this man laments that church members don’t give pastors the proper respect as LEADERS, he forgets what Jesus told His disciples in Luke 22:25-26: Jesus said, "The kings of the Gentiles lord it over them; and those who exercise authority over them call themselves Benefactors. But you are not to be like that. Instead, the greatest among you should be like the youngest, and the one who rules like the one who serves.”
Granted, there are congregations that do not sufficiently appreciate their pastors. But there are also pastors who look down on their congregations as people who are inferior – children who need to be disciplined.
Like it or not, we must admit that we have many men serving as pastors who are NOT qualified to be ministers!!
I hope that the abusive pastors who are out there can come to grips with the concept that: “Yes, you are a leader in the church. But you are not THE leader. AND… your first job is to be a servant. Leadership is secondary (and even tertiary) in your ministry.”
Thank you for sharing.
Wes White
Wes White Wrote:
ReplyDeleteOh, I’m sure he THINKS he is a servant. He thinks that his service is to be the boss – EL JEFE – the one who tells everyone how the church is to be run.
That is NOT the job of the pastor!
MY RESPONSE:
"El Jefe" was a nickname applied to Fidel Castro during his despotic reign in Cuba. Yep, I have seen many "El Jefe" types in the ministry and many other arenas too. Interestingly, the name El Jefe is used as a cute name for many Mexican and Latino restaurants across the United States.
I could probably handle an EL JEFE minister , as long as I get to consume much Tequilla, salsa and chips during services and messages.
I look forward to the time when that pastor's name is revealed to be Pack, Flurry, or the name of any other oppressive Armstrongite minister, all run off by their congregations! Seriously, though, I doubt that the lesson being exposed here would ever even be pondered by such folk in their deepest introspective moments. They are too intoxicated on their own entitlement to envision it.
ReplyDeleteBB
I think Rod McNair of the (puke) LCG would qualify as an "El Jefe".
ReplyDeleteLXX
Wes,
ReplyDeleteI wrote a post about church leadership a few weeks back:
https://godcannotbecontained.blogspot.com/2020/01/god-and-church-government.html
The problem with many of these ministers is that they ignore Christ's statement about being servants to his people and assume that he really meant that they are supposed to be HIS servants. This allows them to believe that they are superior to their fellows - that their true allegiance is to Christ, not the people who BELONG to Christ. This thinking allows them to believe that they are entitled to respect as Christ's representatives here on earth. Yes, the reasoning is circular, but this is what they tell themselves to cover up the cognitive dissonance that their actions would otherwise engender.
Corny play on words, I know. But, the members of Armstrongism would actually have been better off with savant leadership than the entitled "my way or the highway" crap they got!
ReplyDeleteBB
el jefe (the boss). Really, Tonto? Tequila, chips and sauce? That is your summation of the Latino (sabbath keeping or otherwise) church? So typical of you UCG types. todos aquí saben quién eres Tonto (BL). Deja de esconderte.
ReplyDelete6:39pm Can't take a joke? Are you gonna call racism?
ReplyDeleteServant leadership LITERALLY doesn't mean anything. That is the same as same "slave king" or "maid president". It's jibberish.
ReplyDeleteThe ministers act according to the character that they had prior to becoming a Christian and a minister. That's the message of the parable of the sower. The ministers are mentally trapped by their school yard bully morality. I've seen this for years in my workplace. Difficult bosses don't change, and can't change. Theoretically they can, but they don't. Which is why the cities that Christ denounced, did not repent.
ReplyDelete@ 7:42 PM, "servant leadership" is when the wolf has a very convincing "sheep" outfit.
ReplyDeleteServant leadership? Twilight Zone fans should shudder at the concept.
ReplyDeleteTo Serve Man
"They work hard among you and give them spiritual guidance." None of them would be willing to accept spiritual guidance from anyone else, that's why they made themselves the boss.
ReplyDeleteApparently, he feels that church people expect too much from pastors. He claimed the following:
ReplyDelete—Congregations feel the pastor must be perfect and can never make a mistake.
—Congregations expect a pastor to be available 24/7.
—Congregations expect a pastor to never get angry.
—Congregations expect the pastor to do all the work.
—Congregations expect the pastor to never miss church.
—Congregations expect the pastor to never take a vacation.
—Congregations expect the pastor to never get sick.
—Congregations expect the pastor to not drive a car that’s too nice.
Well this is true, at least in my experience. The congregant demands forgiveness, patience, understanding, mercy, kindness and a host of other normal things that one would like to be treated with depending on the occasion, but it is not so with pastors for the most part. The NT holds pastors at a higher standard and nor all that reasonable in relation to reality.
Try all this out for size:
1 Tim. 3:1 "This is a faithful saying: If a man desires the position of a bishop, he desires a good work.
3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach;
3:3 not given to wine, not violent, not greedy for money, but gentle, not quarrelsome, not covetous;
3:4 one who rules his own house well, having his children in submission with all reverence
3:5 (for if a man does not know how to rule his own house, how will he take care of the church of God?);
3:6 not a novice, lest being puffed up with pride he fall into the same condemnation as the devil.
3:7 Moreover he must have a good testimony among those who are outside, lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
1:6 if a man is blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of dissipation or insubordination.
1:7 For a bishop must be blameless, as a steward of God, not self-willed, not quick-tempered, not given to wine, not violent, not greedy for money,
1:8 but hospitable, a lover of what is good, sober-minded, just, holy, self-controlled,
1:9 holding fast the faithful word as he has been taught, that he may be able, by sound doctrine, both to exhort and convict those who contradict."
That's all the ammo anyone needs to go after a man or woman in ministry who lives on the planet and human like anyone else. Those who try too hard to be all this end up, in my experience, coming across as self righteous, annoying and too good to be true which they are not generally as seems often the case.
Striving to "become ye therefore perfect (mature no matter) AS YOUR HEAVENLY FATHER IS PERFECT" is reaching a bit unrealistically high for the average human. It is why men and women in ministry wear masks. Members striving to be what is pretty much impossible all the time do as well.
You'll live longer, be more healthy and more content being yourself with a few tweeks along the way than living under the burdens of should and must be this or that which simply is not real either.
con't
… Servant Leadership is buzzword for doing things, and getting ministerial credit for actually doing things that most humans do anyway. Member chops wood for a widow=Thanks. Minister chops wood for member = OMG, what an incredible servant to the people. lol. At least in my experience.
ReplyDeleteI think we all know well how pastor types, sincerely so or not if that is possible, can be abusive. The man might think what members call abuse, he calls doing and being what the Bible requires him to be. Or he can be a butthead and would be a problem working at IBM as well. Can you imagine if Dave Pack had actually gone to Annapolis and gotten a command in the Navy? He'd recreate the character of Captain Bligh in Mutiny on the Bounty.
Having been put in the eventually proving to be the awkward and unreasonable position of being a pastor in WCG at least, the requirements of ministry, in print for all to see would make any man or woman or pastoral family a target for not making the grade.
And I repeat, there are abusive personalities in ministry just as in the current Presidency :) Snakes in suits aren't limited to just the world of business or politics.
And finally. Men with mental illnesses, personality disorders or just plain nuts, can hide much better in ministry than in other occupations. Their quirky behaviors, bossy nature or self centered views can seem like a kind of sincere righteousness or focused obedience with expectations of others to do the same with them and towards them.
ReplyDeleteThe Bible does demand the congregants respect the ministry. Even the newbees . Any minister can pull these out under any circumstance and fire back at congregants. Then begins the war!
Hebrew 13:17:
Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they are keeping watch over your souls, as those who will have to give an account.
Congregants are to follow them "as they follow Christ" Of course the man always thinks his ways are the ways of Christ worth following.
1 Thessalonians 5
We ask you, brothers, to respect those who labor among you and are over you in the Lord and admonish you, and to esteem them very highly in love because of their work. Be at peace among yourselves. And we urge you, brothers, admonish the idle, encourage the fainthearted, help the weak, be patient with them all.
1 Timothy 4:12
Let no one despise you for your youth, but set the believers an example in speech, in conduct, in love, in faith, in purity.
The key is not to think of oneself more highly than warranted and it is not warranted much in a real life.
And too, for me, the WCG ministry was boring. Too much road time, not enough living time. Going too far too often for YOU sports! Precious little intellectual stimulation in any direction because the church knew it all and studying outside the WCG box was dangerous, however productive, inspiring and enjoyable. Too much intolerance for too many things that were simply matters of opinion, do what you feel best. Too many canned table topics of the politically correct type or else. A basic income, for my family at least, not knowing there was a good ol' boy network at play. Too many scandals to keep up with and too much dissident mail every week in the box which sincere questions over could get you smacked down and lied to. WCG ministry was a miserable experience. There was precious little helping of my own joy and precious little to help with.
ReplyDeleteDave Albert told me personally during one our exhausting Refresher Programs that he never felt I belonged in the WCG ministry. That caught me off guard. He never shared with me why but perhaps I should have pressed him on that.
Free at last, free at last, thank ME hardly Almighty, I"m free at last! :)
I was rescued from being a deacon/elder by circumstance. I still attend with a COG but as soon as I had a role of "authority" people started to take me seriously, listen to my discussions and opinions more carefully.
ReplyDeleteThe same people that thought I was a twit now looked at me like I was respectable, just because I had even a low position of authority.
Thankfully following the bible made my unappealing to the authority, and I lost that position. I am very grateful to God for showing me the way.
But what I found was that humility and service from no position of authority at all causes no pressure from other men. Other than when we disagree with holy scripture.
And I found an understanding with the good leaders in the local COG. I appreciate the work they do even if it is misguided. I have hope for them.
Even here on this board, I have hope for so many people that are willing to discuss religion and disagreements. When we stop talking is when change ends.
Dennis, you baptized me in 1981. You were very loved by the people. I recall stories I heard about you from members. Good ones. I am still learning and trying to overcome. I'm so grateful for the truths I did learn during WWCG days, even though there were errors, just as I am grateful for what I learned from James Dobson, an evangelical, on child rearing. YHWH can teach us wherever we might be, until we realize the need to exit where we are or our filters are being bit too burdened, or find too many red flags popping up.
ReplyDeleteDD@7:07 ~ (free at last) Basically, the problem in a nutshell, was that whether one was a member or a minister, it was assumed that the church owned your soul! If somehow your actions and attitudes were not consistent with that confinement, then you did not belong, were never really converted, did not understand Jesus, etc.
ReplyDeleteBB
ANON AT 6:39 WROTE:
ReplyDeleteel jefe (the boss). Really, Tonto? Tequila, chips and sauce? That is your summation of the Latino (sabbath keeping or otherwise) church? So typical of you UCG types. todos aquí saben quién eres Tonto (BL). Deja de esconderte.
MY RESPONSE:
**Sure , if I have to put up with a cult leader, then I want Tequilla, chips and salsa at church (and during services!) . Whats wrong with that? I think thats a reasonable tradeoff.
**No, that is not my "summation" of the Latino church, or people, of whom I am very fond of both. What would make you think that? Heck, I even had a Mexican girlfriend in the day! I love Mexico and its people.
** UCG Types?? I solemnly affirm to you before God and man, that I am not a "member" of any church and actually detest the concept. Church membership concepts tend to force people into being "chattel" and human fuel for the hierarchy of such. I am not a member of the clergy , and just a poor attempt at being in the transcendent "Body of Christ" and the "priesthood of believers". I am not a member of the UCG, (although I have gone to their church in the past to visit people) , but also Indys, COG7th Day, COGWA, Seventh Day Baptists, and Seventh Day Adventists. I am not in anybodies "playpen" and answer fully and completely for myself, and am not an "apologist" for any organized religious group in the slightest.
** Your line written in Spanish translates "Everyone here knows who you are fool Tonto . Stop hiding"
Stop hiding? Who do you think I am? Im a nobody of any import, status or stature. I do not represent or advocate any church group or organization in any capacity.
However, I certainly dont want weirdos ,"half wits" and "quart lows" bothering me, my friends or family. Frankly, many people in the COG universe scare me a bit, and I think many are unstable and potentially dangerous. I have been stalked in a very real, dangerous and up close physical way (with threats) before because of posts (on another forum) , and obviously , this is disconcerting to a person to the max! I "conceal carry" to this very day for that reason. I actually had to notify police in that instance! I hope you can appreciate that.
However, for anyone who desires or has some kind of prurient interest , Im more than happy to respond to any inquiries and give you a discrete and private/privlidged phone call if requested, or answer any legitimate questions. Im sure you will find me quite unremarkable! Give me your email information and phone number by emailing here:
tontosixkiller@gmail.com
Lies all lies. The sadiest part is your lying to yourself.
DeleteBig yikes, Tonto!
ReplyDeleteThe worst thing that ever happened to me as a result of posting on dissident forums was that some barely literate types decided to take me to task for my views via email. Actually, I ended up turning them. After a few exchanges, they realized I wasn't the bad guy they thought. But on one forum, we did have a considerable number of discussions about our guns, and the kookaboos who might show up at our doors with a Bible in one hand, and their firearm in the other. I keep hollow points in my guns.
The problem is, stalkers usually don't have a heck of a lot of sense, and that's why they are dangerous. They won't take telling, and they keep on coming even in the face of superior force, police presence, or any other normally effective deterrent. Basically, something has gone wrong in their heads, and you can't reach them on a rational level. They are the people the ministers used to describe as "demon-possessed".
Stay safe! You make a lot of great comments here, and it'd be nice to have you around throughout the foreseeable future.
BB
Dennis says 'WCG ministry was a miserable experience.'
ReplyDeleteGolly, it must have been terrible being treated as a junior god by the members. Yep, being called mister, being treated with kids gloves and having ones opinions treated as words from Gods mouth. Boy, you really had it tough Dennis. You got me crying in my beer.
The link below is an excellent article about the history of the rise of the clergy system.
ReplyDeletehttps://truthforfree.com/html/article_pastor_viola.html
According to etymology online, the word pastor comes from the Latin pastorem and simply means shepherd. The root pa means to feed; tend, guard, protect.
1Peter 5:1-3 plainly states that elders are to shepherd God's flock that is "among you". Not "lording it over"... The Greek here is katakurieuo, meaning to bend down, or to exercise authority over, over power, master. To exercise decisive control (downward) as an owner with full jurisdiction; (passive) to be fully subjected to a master; to lord it over.(Information taken from biblehub.com, Strong's Greek 2634)
This isn't simply speaking of "abusive control" but the exercising of control or authority that would place others beneath you, as if you are a lord. The passage above implies that elders are to be among the flock, not elevated to some lofty position above the flock. They are to guide the flock by example. The word example here is the Greek tupos (Strong's 5179) meaning a figure, model, or type. In other words these people are to set the pattern of behavior for everyone else to copy. This wasn't ever supposed to be some office of rank and power where some people claim a higher social division than others. Instead this was supposed to be a function of example and mentorship. Do what I do. Imitate me, as I imitate Christ.(1Corinthians 11:1) Even Peter in the above passage addresses these other "elders" in terms of brotherhood. He didn't say "I Peter, God's Chief Apostle, tell you elders who are beneath me to exercise authority over those who are beneath you,limiting their activities and service within the body to being spectators and lapdogs, holding up those above them who are their ministers." Instead he simply addressed them as a "fellow elder".(1Peter 5:1)
As covered elsewhere these people are to be "gifts" to the body whose function is to equip everyone else for service(ministry), so that all might function according to their own gifts, building the body up.(Ephesians 4:11-16)
As mentioned in the thread above, some scriptures have been used by the pastorate to imply that we are required to pay them homage and give them our unlimited and blind obedience. Hebrews 13:17 at first glance would seem to imply that we "obey" those who lead us. However, the word rendered as obey in this passage is the Greek word peitho (Strong's 3982) which more accurately would mean to have confidence in or be persuaded by, implying the job of those who "lead" is to persuade, not to dictate.
We also don't see any examples in the New Testament of anyone declaring themselves a "chief" or "head" pastor, or elder. In other words, elders were to view each other as brethren, to be mutually cooperated with, entreated, and respected. The idea of a "bishop" or "pastor" ranking above other elders is not found in the Bible. That idea came along later. We do not see "Pastor Generals"(except Christ, 1Peter5:4) who outrank "Regional Pastors" who outrank "Local Pastors" who outrank "Local Elders" who outrank "deacons"(from the word diakonos, which is also rendered as "minister" or "servant"). It simply isn't there. The multi tiered hierarchy of WCG and so many other churches cannot be demonstrated Biblically. Instead we see that even the Apostle Paul addressed others as brothers and sisters (1Corinthians 14:26), fellow workers(Romans 16:3-4,21),and other familial terms. He tells Timothy to treat others within the body as family (1Timothy 5:1-2).
Concerned Sister
One advantage of going to AC was you grew up with the students who became ministers. They were just like the rest of us, but had the desire and whatever else was required to go into the ministry. There were a mix of personalities and characters.
ReplyDeleteIf your minister was one of the friendly and hospitable ones with a genuine interest in people, then you had a much more enjoyable environment than the ones who were cold and not people persons.
The titles thing is ridiculous - some ignored it and called them by their first names.
I either used their first name or no name at all.
My mind reading skills are zero, so I will take Dennis at his word that it was miserable for him.
I know I am very glad I did not go the ministry route.
If I remember from my AC days, certain qualities were looked for in a minister. Being converted, obedient, good speaker, either good looking or good personality, ability to grab a reasonable wife. Then being sent on the sermonette circuit as a ministrial assistant where hopefully the minister being assisted was not a psychopath.
ReplyDeleteIt didn't work out so well after the church fell apart and AC was closed down, then the standards for ministry were lowered. Almost anyone with the desire who had been to AC could ascend to the ministry, and even non-AC church members could join the ministry -- someone who had been a deacon for a while could be promoted to the ministry as long as they could speak English and hadn't offended anyone important.
Some of the local churches had to suffer with a non-to-smart ascended deacons who in the case of the church I attended, enjoyed the admiration of the membership so much that he left his old wife and found a new one almost young enough to be his grandchild. He formed a bond with her in counselling sessions. His old wife then remarried to a really nice church member who was so much better than her old husband.
The sadiest part is your lying to yourself.
ReplyDeleteSadiest? You must be a Beatles fan! John originally wrote Sexy Sadie with Maharishi Mahesh Yogi in mind, but it kind of works for old jowly Herbie as well:
Sexy Sadie what have you done
You made a fool of everyone, you made a fool of everyone
Sexy Sadie ooh what have you done
Sexy Sadie you broke the rules
You laid it down for all to see, you laid it down for all to see
Sexy Sadie oooh you broke the rules
One sunny day the world was waiting for a lover
She came along to turn on everyone
Sexy Sadie the greatest of them all
Sexy Sadie how did you know
The world was waiting just for you, the world was waiting just for you
Sexy Sadie oooh how did you know
Sexy Sadie you'll get yours yet
However big you think you are, however big you think you are
Sexy Sadie oooh you'll get yours yet
We gave her everything we owned just to sit at her table
Just a smile would lighten everything
Sexy Sadie she's the latest and the greatest of them all
She made a fool of everyone
Sexy Sadie
However big you think you are
Sexy Sadie
Anon 9:08
ReplyDeleteMock all you want.
A liar is still a liar. You do the work of the devil in the COG movement not Jesus Christ's. You lie to yourself and think it's funny to try and fool people on here.
I hope and pray someone, sometime has the courage to expose you once and for all. For all your bluster and arrogance remember if Garner Ted can fall, then so can you.
Tonto is the wife of a high ranking UCG leader and is here to destroy the faith of people in the church. I have your number woman!
ReplyDeleteFor all your bluster and arrogance remember if Garner Ted can fall, then so can you.
ReplyDeleteWhat a strange statement! Why not "If HWA can fail, so can you"? What does GTA have to do with any of this? Even Jesus Christ "could" have failed but, because of His will and His character, did not. No one has NOT failed except for Jesus Christ, and no one can NOT fail without Him!
Which explains the failure of Anon 11:19 AM.
Put your glasses on, fall is not fail.
DeleteWorried now.
People have had their fill of your arrogance.
For who the Lord calls your evil heart and evil doings means nothing to them.
How about put up or shut up, "Anonymous 11:43"? Show us your proof. Don't be surprised if you are not taken seriously unless the proof is compelling, though.
ReplyDeleteBB
I am not Anon 11:43. Nor do i have any clue who that is.
DeleteBut it will be obvious to people out there in certain parts of UCG who these are.
How many are wrapped up in this i do not know. But it is more than one.
DD @ 6:30 said: “Men with mental illnesses, personality disorders or just plain nuts, can hide much better in ministry than in other occupations. Their quirky behaviors, bossy nature or self centered views can seem like a kind of sincere righteousness or focused obedience with expectations of others to do the same with them and towards them.”
ReplyDeleteSo are you subconsciously referring to yourself here Dennis?
I am not anonymous above, and this is my first post here, but it is heavily rumored about and is privately known that Tonto is indeed a woman, and the goofy wife of one of the members of the central council of the UCG, and she is sanctioned by it.
ReplyDeleteThe idea is to have someone similar to what COGWA did a number of years ago with Abigail Cartwright, as a surrogate to create havoc and mischief, and to spread misinformation about other groups. Sort of like a psyops or disinformation campaign.
Perhaps UCG Brass believes it can be a sort of Russia, like what Russia did with the elections, with propoganda and hype. Desperate measures by a failing group, drowning while it cant tread water anymore.
Anon 3:52 AM, he's not doing it "subconsciously."
ReplyDeleteDennis has graciously shared openly with this blog his experience as a WCG pastor. Part of that experience included a week in a psych ward (OK, let's call it a "mental health care facility" to be kind) when he diagnosed his own severe depression and couldn't cope with the transition between his old NY pastorate and his new SC pastorate.
Unless you are a professional athlete, there is very little stigma associated with breaking a bone; you just do what you need to do to get healed. There is no stigma associated with catching the flu; you just quarantine yourself and wait for the illness to pass.
Unfortunately, mental breakdown and mental illness often carry a severe stigma. It took courage for Dennis to share his story so openly and honestly, and I think that by doing so he has helped many people, mostly people he doesn't know.
When a regular and popular screen named poster who has made valuable contributions here is accused of being a double agent from one of the ACOGs, what we need is some solid evidence, or proof of that. Speculation doesn't cut it.
ReplyDeleteOver the years we've seen so many ridiculous accusations made, and the people who make the accusations are frequently the mentally unstable or saboteurs themselves. Years ago, I was accused of being an entire forum by someone! A person literally believed that I had created all of the characters myself, and was carrying on all of the discussions amongst my supposed sock puppets to entrap people from the various splinters. Once, when I and a group of friends from another forum joined a new forum, the moderator accused me of being all three of us. Some of the people with a past history in Armstrongism have been left with serious mental issues, and are highly unstable.
So, I repeat my request. If anyone has solid evidence that Tonto is a highly placed UCG official or wife of an official, solid evidence is what is needed. Until then, so far as I'm concerned, Tonto has distinguished himself as an A-lister here.
BB
Re: BB. Solid evidence.
ReplyDeleteI did find a bra here.
Could be the neighbor doing some washing in the storm.............
OR........... Connie posting as Tonto.
The use of language I would characterize as female. Friendly tone. No swearing. Irrational when accused, rational when making a point. Inquisitive.
Nck
As someone whose identity and posts have likewise been the subject of speculation in times past, I agree with Byker Bob. Like Byker Bob, Tonto and others who have posted here, I originally assumed a screen name to protect myself and family members from complications and negative fallout. When I decided to come out of the closet, I felt that integrity and credibility demanded that I be clear about my identity. As a consequence, I have at various times revealed that I am Lonnie Hendrix, but folks have continued to speculate that I'm really someone else (or have assigned history and motives to me that do not exist in reality). There are many legitimate reasons for having a screen/pen name, but I continue to wonder why anyone has to be anonymous - it is confusing and leads to misunderstandings and smacks of cowardice. Tonto's original response was reasonable. Lacking tangible evidence to support the accusations made, the person who made them should cease and desist or have the decency to apologize!
ReplyDeleteAnon 6:38
ReplyDeleteFirst time poster. I would never call Tonto "goofy".
But Tonto under many names has been posting since 2007. Well before Abagail Cartwright appeared on the scene.
It's a disgrace and why if many know has it not been stopped.
Yeah I really don’t give a crap if Tonto is a man or woman or whether s/he is affiliated with UCG, LCG, COGWA, PCG, ABCDEFG, or the CIA! I enjoy his/her comments and perspective. So live and let live I say ;-)
ReplyDeleteSo you don't care if Tonto is making a fool of you. Spinning her UCG PR that others are saying she's actually been commissioned to do? Whilst she tells UCG members at Church as a UCG Pastors wife "of course I would never join Facebook"
DeleteOf course we all know about Nazi propaganda against the Jews but who cares if it's going on here hey.
Anon 3:15
DeleteSo you don't have a problem about being lied to?
Actually anon 12-02 mrs tonto actually does not tell the brethren at ucg that she won't join facebook, she just lies and says that she has no interest in facebook. Meanwhile, she is here as a lying agent of united to mess with our heads like some sheep in wolfs clothing. Hypocrite and bizarre, when she should be visiting the sick brethren and the infirmed instead of writing stuff here on behalf of her top brass handlers and husband to confuse people.
ReplyDeleteHer husband encourages her to stir stuff up on here to see how the brethren act in his congregation, then rakes them over the coals if they mention anything they heard here.
ReplyDeleteWhat are all these lies of Tonto? Not sure how Tonto is making a fool of anyone on this forum even if Tonto is a UCG minister's wife.
ReplyDeleteActually Anon 9:17 & 9:44 I've never read such rubbish.
ReplyDelete