The boys in Charlotte are scrambling to keep their members in line and that necessary money stream coming in. It seems that the Sheldon Monson fiasco is having a huge impact upon LCG as members flock to Monson and his webcast. Many in LCG are now switching feast sites in order to attend Monson's site.
The mask fiasco that Weston created has now led LCG to draw up 3 "study guides" for the few remaining faithful to examine as they try to recover from the "present distress" the church is now going through.
We have seen a lot of COG's do a lot of stupid things over the years, but this one makes LCG look absolutely ridiculous.
It's like watching a high school girl get all pissy when her boyfriend dumps her for someone better.
The longer COG's exist the more immature they act.
Church Administration
Online Study Resources for Brethren
During this difficult period of the COVID-19 pandemic, the Church is faced with the challenge of making decisions about services and our weekly and Festival practices. As always, Church leadership looks to the inspiration of Jesus Christ and the laws and statutes of God to guide these decisions, not to mention a “multitude of counsel,” which has included the Council of Elders, Feast of Tabernacles Site Coordinators, and numerous field ministers. And the Church Headquarters leadership frequently revisits these decisions, looking for opportunities to move past this “present distress” and back to the normal services we all love.
As we move through this unprecedented time together, we want to make all brethren aware of study resources that may be helpful in light of the issues the Church is facing today.
The following study guides are available on the lcg.org website, by clicking on the “Bible Study” link:
1. Study Topic: Singing, Masks, Livestreaming, and Faith, by Mr. Wallace Smith:
https://www.lcg.org/bible-studies/study-topic-singing-masks-livestreaming-and-f faith
2. Study Topic: Does Psalm 81 contain a commandment for singing?, by Mr. Dexter Wakefield:
https://www.lcg.org/bible-studies/study-topic-does-psalm-81-contain-commandment-singing
3. Study Topic: Masks and Singing—Is one forbidden at Sabbath Services while the other is commanded?, by Mr. Peter Nathan:
https://www.lcg.org/bible-studies/study-topic-masks-and-singing-one-forbidden-sabbath-services-while-other-commanded
“multitude of counsel,”
ReplyDeleteWell, nobody asked me!
Asking 100 yellow pencils the same question is not a multitude of counsel. A multitude of parrots, lemmings, or yes-men gets you nowhere. You need to listen to someone with different facts than the usual lies you are told.
I recommend wearing a gas mask just to make a mockery of the whole damn thing.
ReplyDeleteLol
DeleteI wonder if this will lead to an exodus of the most popular ministers when they see how easy it is to set up your own group.
ReplyDeleteThey could even start a cooperative to show how easy it is to get along.
Would LCG let you into their services if you showed up wearing a Guy Fawkes mask like the folks at Anonymous protests?
ReplyDeleteProbably not but I don't know?
DeleteThose "study papers" aren't very good. They mostly rely on unfounded assumptions and Winnail-like stretching of the meaning of Bible verses. Monson is full of crap, but if this is the best LCG can do in response they are in trouble. At least Walrus Smith argues his points logically and is somewhat persuasive as a result. The other two, however, smack of arbitrary and entitled ministerial authority from men who earn their living as yes-men and are used to members obeying them "Because I said so."
ReplyDeleteIf they would just let every assembly make their own decision on how to run their services, they could be responsive to local conditions and needs and save themselves a lot of hassle. Plus they wouldn't have to twist a scripture about all speaking the same thing.
ReplyDeleteI recommend wearing a gas mask just to make a mockery of the whole damn thing.
ReplyDeleteWearing a Halloween mask would be more dramatic. I suggest Darth Maul.
I have come to the conclusion that a COG actually cannot survive without occasional "drama and controversy", and that this is used as a kind of "narcotic stimulant" to rouse up their membership.
ReplyDeleteHWA was a master at the use of drama. Without such nonsense on a regular basis, the membership would become bored and staid with the steady same old diet that has been preached and done over the last 60 years. Rather than being creative and innovative to engage the faithful, they rely on this kind of cannibalistic and incestuous in fighting for "shots in the arm".
I am no fan of the Living Church of God (or any of the other Armstrong COG splinters). However, criticism of them for trying to be responsible during a pandemic seems ludicrous to me. I remember back at the beginning of this thing how many of us criticized these folks for not responding to Covid-19. It is ESTABLISHED, scientific FACT that the virus is easily spread through public gatherings. It is also an ESTABLISHED FACT that wearing masks reduces the spread of the virus. The only folks who seem to have a problem with basic, common sense public health standards are the lemmings who follow the Great Orange One.
ReplyDeleteIt’s funny how when you’re in (the cult) men like Winnail and Weston seem so big. But then once you’ve been out for a while and read their stuff or listen to them “preach” their smallest, insecurity and wild egos become so transparent that you almost (almost) feel sorry for them. What a waste of a life.
ReplyDeleteMiller Jones writes: "The only folks who seem to have a problem with basic, common sense public health standards are the lemmings who follow the Great Orange One."
ReplyDeleteNo, there are those on the left as well who refuse to obey the government.
Your comment about Trumps has nothing to do with masks. This comment tells me that you have a confirmation bias against Trump. Playing politics here can be dangerous for your credibility.
If they would just let every assembly make their own decision...
ReplyDeleteAn old WCG friend told me that a minister read a whole list of new rules from Pasadena, and the following week he read the same list, then "now there is no rule".
I remember a ministerial dress code to be enforced, and the minister mentioned another minister he knew in the tropics (it may have been Fiji) who for comfort dressed more like the local congregation.
Then the "Mr" rule for ministers and such was to be enforced - explained by a story of HWA's past. An Australian minister said he would check that with Pasadena first, as in Australia they aren't so formal.
Miller Jones
ReplyDeleteSome of the same scientists who initially claimed that mask wearing was unnecessary, then changed their minds. The science is not settled on mask wearing.
When people die, it's typically from more than one medical condition.
A new study shows that only about 9000 deaths in America can be attributed purely to COVID. In a typical flu season it's about 50,000. So a third of the economy, 40% of all businesses, have been shut down over 9000 deaths. More people have died from the increase in suicides. The usurping of citizens natural rights that politicians tried using the cover of climate change, they succeeded with COViD. Since totalitarianism favors the non winners, their fanboys will be found on Banned.
Anonymous 9/3 @ 10:09,
ReplyDeleteIt may have escaped your notice, but this whole controversy about wearing masks originated in the POLITICAL arena! I am an advocate for keeping politics and religion separate (as evidenced by many articles, sermons, posts and comments over many years). Unfortunately, there are a lot of religious folks (especially minister types) who do not recognize any distinction between the two. And, as long as we have folks who are willing to cross that line, they better put on their big boy pants and get ready to be challenged! My credibility rests on the entirety of my contributions over the years. As with most other folks who comment here, I suspect I have folks who regard my views as credible and others who regard them as incredible :) And, just in case there is any room for doubt, I am irrevocably opposed to Trump and Trumpism.
Big boy pants is mummy talk Jones.
DeleteYou have no credibility but do carry on acting.
Anonymous 9/3 @ 10:48,
ReplyDeleteHow quickly some of us forget! Mask wearing was initially discouraged in the United States because scientists and medical professionals were fearful that there wouldn't be enough masks for them! Moreover, that fear was justified by what happened over the next several months - have you forgotten the scramble to obtain PPE? We all should have been just a little bit suspicious when we saw all of those images in the media of millions of Asians wearing masks (if they weren't efficacious, then why were all of those folks wearing them?).
Trump and his followers always love to play with the statistics when the facts are against them. It is now clear that Trump and his cohorts have grossly mishandled this health crisis. We have known for a long time that people with pre-existing conditions are more susceptible to this virus. It is pretty disingenuous (convoluted logic) to say that those deaths should rightly be attributed to one of those underlying conditions instead of Covid.
Finally, I always find these protestations about the usurpations of our rights in this instance to be specious. Thomas Jefferson identified life itself as one of the three basic, God-given rights that humans have. Seems to me that trumps (pun intended) your right to party and go without a mask!
Lonnie Hendrix and credibility? Quite the oxymoron!
ReplyDeleteAs for Trump, at least he's banned baby killing as much as he's able to without an act of Congress or the Supreme court.
Biden and the Democrat party want to overturn the Hyde act. I
He may be orange but he's not Biden!
10:48am Are the 50,000 deaths from flu without comorbidities?
ReplyDeleteYou've got to compare apples to apples.
"And, just in case there is any room for doubt, I am irrevocably opposed to Trump and Trumpism."
ReplyDeleteWell of course you are! There was never any doubt!
"Seems to me that trumps (pun intended) your right to party and go without a mask!
ReplyDeleteSeptember 3, 2020 at 12:09 PM"
Tell that to Pelosi!
The problem Miller is that when they first said not to wear masks their reason was that they didn't help protect you from the virus. They didn't say it was to make sure there was enough masks for the first responders.
ReplyDeleteIt's easy to make things up after the fact.
All of the Great Orange Buffoon's bad behavior is justified by a few Judicial appointments and puny Executive Actions to undercut abortion? You and I may agree that abortion is morally wrong, but you need to read my latest post: "When does life begin?" If we are going to choose candidates based on "Christian" policy, then what do we do with the many other issues besides abortion (most of which Trump is on the wrong side)?
ReplyDelete"It's easy to make things up after the fact."
--It sure is!
10:15 AM has a point. We could make up a study paper on if wearing a suit jacket or neck tie are Biblical statutes and if so, where in Mosaic Law are they specifically mentioned as required dress in "appearing before God"? We could also extend the question to skirts/dresses for women, etc.
ReplyDeleteWhile we are at it, how about the order of liturgy used in most COG groups? Three hymns, prayer, sermonette, hymn, announcements/sermon, hymn, prayer. This basic order can be found in most COG groups today with minimal deviation. Where in Mosaic Law is this specific order outlined? Why three hymns and not four? Where does it list the sermonette or say that it can contain only three scriptures? How about a sermon? We can find instances of teaching, interacting with people, reading the law, or even what we call preaching but where does it specifically say that this was always done in sermon form, or that this order must be followed in every congregation at every Sabbath gathering?
It is interesting that many traditional Protestant churches follow a similar liturgy. They have singing or worship service, prayers, sermon, etc., which we recognize. Some differences might be a weekly offering, or a weekly or quarterly communion service. Some also have alter calls, etc. But singing, sermon, and prayer are present in most. Martin Luther's basic liturgy went like this... Singing, Prayer, Sermon, Admonition to the people, Lord's Supper, Singing, Post Communion prayer, Benedictions. (taken from Pagan Christianity by Viola/Barna) Variations of this liturgy can be found in many churches today, including the COGs. But this prescribed order cannot be found in the O.T. We see instances of people singing, praying, dancing, playing trumpets, tambourines, drums, etc., clapping, reading the scriptures, teaching,... but I can find no specific "Thou shalt ALWAYS" include all these things. To say that ANY of these things would be inappropriate in worship to God though, is just as bad as saying that ALL must always be present in worship to God, and jumps from one ditch to another. The closest thing that comes to an "order" of worship or how to conduct a meeting of the ekklesia in the New Testament might be found in 1Corinthians 14, and a reading of that gives a much different picture than what we in the COGs practice today. "What then shall we say, brothers and sisters? When you come together, each of you has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. Everything must be done so that the church may be built up." 1Corinthians 14:26 NIV and "For you can all prophesy in turn so that everyone may be instructed and encouraged." 1Corinthians 14:31 NIV
While it is unbalanced to categorize temporarily wearing masks or even lack of hymn singing in a religious gathering as a sin before God, in taking away the singing of hymns you have taken away the only part of the modern COG service that allows full congregational participation(people can sing with masks on). If hymn singing is not to be viewed as an absolute in Sabbath gatherings, then that opens up the question of the rest of the order of liturgy the COGs cling to. There is virtually no thinking outside the box or adaptation to what might be more effective in the teaching of the modern congregation. Why not set things up more like a classroom, with the teacher still instructing, but inviting a little more audience participation in the form of discussion or questions? Why not use things like a white board, or some other form of learning aid to help people focus? Why not at times have more open ended Bible discussions where a chosen topic is discussed and all are involved in finding the scriptures that pertain to that particular topic, thus teaching the people to find the information themselves rather than just spoon feeding them all the time. Formats such as these might work well in smaller congregations where the leaders still serve as guides, but don't monopolize the entire service.
Concerned Sister
Concerned Sister
DeleteWhilst it might be worthwhile looking into a proper study of why, what and how the present day Church of God services are constructed and implemented. It would achieve no change.
The reality is the churches of God in particular are far too splintered and war torn.
They are forever filled with the aftermath of political ministerial war. You can sense it a mile off. No one trust's anyone.
Which may sound like a excuse but the result of war is the congregations are far too spread out and filled with attendees outside of the same local area.
Thus not able to achieve much because the focus becomes about one cultural area verses another and what one does to earn a living.
Unless one is related to or a insider of a minister no ideas outside of the usual ministers crony set are heard.
Thus the Church of God is reduced to the mindset of the aged ministry. Thus nothing will happen.
The New Testament churches, which the splinter groups are supposed to be based upon, was based on local people meeting locally.
UNTIL the ministry take their controlling hands off the congregations NO REAL CHANGE will ever happen.
The congregations NOW are all about IF the minister likes the attendees or not.
Certainly no change inspired by God would be allowed.
Yes, I am blaming the Ministry. The buck has to stop somewhere and I say the ministry are to blame.
The only way to try and do anything is to avoid the ministry like the Covid 19 plague.
The ministry are very jealous of the least thing, no matter how small, which is also a reason nothing happens in COG world.
Many times have I not gone to services because I just didn't feel like dressing up. If I could have shown up in shorts I might have gone. If we can pray to God in our underwear, then claiming that we have to dress up to come before God is just b.s.
ReplyDeletePlus I will call no man Master/Mr.
Lonnie, who the hell is talking about justifying anyone? As for abortion, yes, that's the biggest issue in my opinion. I don't give a damn when you think life begins. Nor do I think that you're capable of determining what the right side of issues are!
ReplyDeleteMaybe Bob Thiel can prophesy for us how long it will be before Sheldon and his fellows discover that the Bible commands dancing in exactly the same way it commands singing? I would love to see the livestream of Sheldon's services after he restores the lost truth of dancing in worship before God!
ReplyDeleteTiming is everything. Why didn't LCG bring these out before Sheldon Monson left?
ReplyDeleteAnonymous 9/3 @ 3:08,
ReplyDeleteWHEN life begins is determinative to the question of abortion - our opinions (yours and mine) as to when that happens are only important to us and our personal morality. And thank you again for making plain that you are NO Christian! (By their fruits, you shall know them)
Gordon Feil said...
ReplyDeleteIf they would just let every assembly make their own decision on how to run their services, they could be responsive to local conditions and needs and save themselves a lot of hassle.
Of course they should do that, but that would gut the dictatorial authority that Rod Meredith established at the founding of LCG. UCG directed its local ministry to determine if and when they should assemble. That works, but Weston would never give up that power.
My understanding is that LCG has numerous Feast sites. Their are to be no more than 200 attendees at each one. Specific congregations have been assigned to them. It's doubtful that any "outsiders" will be allowed in.
ReplyDeleteLCG has a site in the state that I live. No other organization does. We won't attempt to go, because we will probably be accosted at the door, and subjected to intense scrutiny.
This is unlike COGWA, who are planning for over 1000 "happy feastgoers" at 2 of their U.S. sites. How many others will show up, who aren't registered? They may get turned away at the door.
@ 1:26 AM, despite their propaganda about small local sites, LCG just announced that their southern California site near Palm Springs is being transferred to Utah, 700 miles away. Members previously assigned to the southern California site are now assigned to attend in Utah. Monson must have taken away a huge part of LCG's membership in southern California, as it doesn't make sense for California brethren to cross several state lines and travel 700 miles to go to what LCG is promoting as their local site.
ReplyDeleteCOGWA seems to have had a better idea, securing venues that could hold many thousands of people and then using them with extreme social distancing in place, so brethren can make their own choices about visiting with friends or staying socially distanced and safe.
Anon 5:54
ReplyDelete"Monson must have taken away a huge part of LCG's membership in southern California, as it doesn't make sense for California brethren to cross several state lines and travel 700 miles…"
The site in California has been cancelled because Governor Newsom has shut down all large group gatherings. This is not due to a lack of members attending this site.
Tonto, you state that, "I have come to the conclusion that a COG actually cannot survive without occasional "drama and controversy", and that this is used as a kind of "narcotic stimulant" to rouse up their membership.' In all actuality, you are correct but please also acknowledge that this site would not exist if there was no "drama and controversy" either!!
ReplyDeleteIn the ACOG-land "drama and controversy" is a calculated distraction from the fact that these churches do not teach wisdom but rather keep the sheep dumbed down with Kenneth Copeland type sermons. One can listen to tens of thousands of such sermons, and still be morally confused. How can it be otherwise with Herbs "Two trees Church of God."
ReplyDelete"Their are to be no more than 200 attendees at each one."
ReplyDeleteROFLOL
@ 3:55 PM, wouldn't it make more sense to move the site to Nevada or Arizona than to Utah, out of consideration for the southern California members? Something odd is going on. Even in California they could have had services outdoors with no problem, and I'm sure there are hundreds of brethren who would have enjoyed meeting on a beach or in a national park. Instead, they're being sent to an indoor space in Utah. That doesn't make any sense, especially with Weston's comments about keeping services local.
ReplyDeleteLCG HQ does allow every pastor to make decisions based on local guidelines and mandates. In my area, face masks are optional because the state says they are optional at church services. Even at the U.S. Feast sites this year, depending on local requirements, face masks may or may not be mandatory. From this week's HQ update:
ReplyDeleteFace Coverings and Social Distancing: All attendees at United States Feast sites will be required, unless otherwise directed, to use face masks for the entire time while attending services or indoor Feast functions. (Exceptions: Face masks are not required while sitting at a table for the purposes of eating a meal.) And according to the CDC, “Masks should NOT be worn by children under the age of two years or anyone who has trouble breathing.” Face shields, while not as effective as face masks at preventing the spread of water particles through the air, are an appropriate alternative for those who have trouble breathing. Proper social distancing will be observed as well, for all worship services and activities.
Covid 19 has hastened events by 2 to 5 years. Church attendance will be diminished for a long time, even after the election has come and gone.
ReplyDeleteStreaming of sermons via Zoom or podcasts has made it easy to stay home. I think FOT attendance will take a big hit as it is still really hard to travel, and activities like eating out are still really hard.
Some parts of the country do not have independent congregations with is an alternative for some who do not want to attend the Big 3 (or 5.)
September 3, 11:28PM stated... "The reality is the churches of God in particular are far too splintered and war torn. They are forever filled with the aftermath of political ministerial war. You can sense it a mile off. No one trust's anyone"..."Thus the Church of God is reduced to the mindset of the aged ministry."
ReplyDeleteI recently heard someone make the observation on a television show I was watching that "Old entrenched interests don't like change." This is true, and those who represent the established religious system often don't like new ideas or proposed changes to established traditions, however small, because they see those changes as a threat to their own control and sense of what they have elevated in their own minds to be the only "correct" way to do things. Even if the evidence clearly shows that running in the rut of the established "traditions" isn't working. They aren't bringing in new people. They aren't causing physical or spiritual growth among the congregations, and they aren't creating a unity of the faith or a bond of peace among God's people.
Instead, the idolization of traditions and behind it the dead man who is credited with establishing those traditions has led to splintering, factions, distrust of others who would be brethren, and the equation of obedience and loyalty to God with obedience and loyalty to whichever established hierarchy happens to be promoting themselves as the one who maintains the purest "doctrine", the most "truth" or claims God is using them "above all others" to "more powerfully" preach the gospel. The truth is NONE of these splinter groups, big or small can legitimately or honestly make any of theses claims, because sooner or later they are all wrong about something in some area, because they are all imperfect men, and none has more right to lay claim to the loyalty of the sheep than another, and every corporate flag wars for the loyalty of the confused sheep.
The result is what we have today, which is a disjointed and scattered body of Christ, whose members have confused membership to an organization with membership within His body, and loyalty to that organization or "ministry", with loyalty to Him. And rather than doing their part to foster healing and unity within the body, those who claim to be official "ministers" of that body continue to sever, separate, and scatter the body with each new faction, led by men who each claim to be following Jesus Christ more perfectly than any others, but in the end are still holding up the memory of a dead man to bolster their own claim to control over and loyalty of the sheep.
Concerned Sister