From a reader:
I know that this year's Feast in RCG has gotten a lot of press on this blog (due to all the leaked sermons) as it should. If anything, it highlights how crazy the prophetic teachings (and other teachings) are in RCG, so that's a good thing. Perhaps it can stimulate some of those who are there to wake up to the insanity.
However, for those who don't know, this is the same exact thing that happened last year. There were multiple streamed/distributed messages from the "Pastor General" all covering Christ's supposed return by the end of the Feast. This is literally a repeat of what happened last year. When Christ failed to materialized on the LGD, then Dave proclaimed he would come throughout November. With a new date Every...Single...Saturday... Then when that didn't happen, he claimed Christ would come in the Christmas season and on and on. So we are still going here. It is insane but honestly not a lot more insane than last year. We all bought it up to a point but hey, there is no better time to leave...it's just so obviously wrong.
In order to stay with Dave's group, you either need to be a hireling or invent a new portion of HWA's theology to allow for false prophecies. From talking to members there, it is clear there is a mix of both.
Perhaps after the Feast, the membership could review the following RCG article. I will provide a few helpful quotes for those who don't want to read it.
"These events clearly did not happen. Based on number and size of failures, Nostradamus is a particularly poor prophet. Among false prophets, he falls into extra false.
Now ask: Could the God of the Bible inspire prophecies that did not come to pass? What about even one? No. If so, He becomes a liar. Read what He says: “...I am God, and there is none like Me, declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all My pleasure” (Isa. 46:9-10).
Only God can declare the future. And Hebrews 6:18 says it is impossible for Him to lie. His Word is certain. What He foretells—God does not predict—will come to pass. Even one failed prophecy means one was not sent by God."
"Remember, most of Nostradamus’ prophecies failed. And again, this could not occur with a prophet of God. Let’s see: “We [Christians] have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto you do well that you take heed, as unto a light that shines in a dark place...” (II Pet. 1:19). God’s prophecies are sure. They never miss. Not one! And they do shed light in dark places.
Here is God’s command regarding prophets: “And if you [ask] in your heart, How shall we know the word which the Lord has not spoken? [God’s answer] When a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord has not spoken, but the prophet has spoken it presumptuously: you shall not be afraid of him” (Deut. 18:21-22). This states that men can presume to speak for God. This is very serious to God. It should also be serious to you. You must know if God sent a man—or if the man sent himself."
With so much of his time preaching on speculative prophecy, he is missing the opportunity to preach useful sermons from the Bible. There are so many issues he could be talking about that would be more helpful than his nonsense. Who would you benefit from listening to more: a homeless schizophrenic spouting word salads and delusions or a person who is offering practical help in everyday living? It's not only what he preaches, it what he fails to preach that is an issue.
ReplyDeleteDave doesn't even rise to the level of Nostradamus. He's more of a Nostradumbass.
ReplyDeleteThe reason why he (I will not write his name) is active and influential is because he has a congregation. No congregation, no leader. But why does his congregation stick with him? Why don't they all just yawn and not show up next Saturday? This is supply and demand. Capitalist market theory as applied to the cult industry. The congregants have a need and he services that need. That is the real dynamic. And it reduces the whole prophecy shtick to liturgy. Predicting Christ is going to come in the next few days is almost a ceremony, a form of iterative worship. The liturgy of prophecy rides along with the supply and demand curve, perhaps, is governed by it.
ReplyDeleteAnother point is that because it is ceremony it is a kind of abstraction to these people. They don't believe that anything is really going to happen logistically. But they are nevertheless in the moment - they go through the liturgical motions - they hear and respond to the clarion call to worship services centered on predictive prophecy. In some Christian churches, the congregation will say aloud "He is risen!" on Easter morning. The Apocalyptic Millerites, when it seems appropriate, will say "He is coming!"
To those of us on the outside, the whole scenario seems to be a redux of The Great Disappointment of 1844 with William Miller scratching his head and wondering what happened. But to Apocalyptic Millerites it is a liturgical formality that substitutes for the real thing - like collecting bread crumbs and discarding them rather than really undergoing a transformation of heart.
@NEO
Delete“Why don't they all just yawn and not show up next Saturday?”
A lot don’t show up next Saturday, especially the ones keeping the Sabbath at home. They pretend to have listened to the sermon, go online to fill in the ‘congregation attendance’ and go out for a drink. Others don’t come to services because of some illness, usually something that is self diagnosed (there’s a lot of psychosomatic illnesses in the COG’s I have noticed).
But leaving? Really leaving? No, because what if it is true? And nobody wants to end up in the lake of fire right? It is that fear that keeps them there. And creatures like Dave feed on that.
If the COG members would free themselves from that fear..
After marginalizing all the apostles of the Bible for being wrong for a long time, I don’t think Dave will have any problem dispatching Nostradomus.
ReplyDeleteThis is though good information to post as it highlights how far Dave Pack has and will move away from his established normal into wild radical theology.
Back in 2015 when he was talking about himself as the one who starts the Great Tribulation and the time was imminent I was somewhat startled. Then in 2016 he took on the persona of Jesus Christ through scriptural craziness and I wasnt shocked as I had seen this story already with Charles Manson and his followers.
Charles Manson would portray himself as Jesus Christ often to his followers - Manson = son of man. When his prediction of the LA race riots would start Armageddon failed, he said he would start Armageddon via helter skelter.
Dangerous times ahead from Dave Pack? He is after all hell bent for the destruction of all of the splinters. Then there is all those future fiery ovens of his to burn up certain enemies. And as well the declaration that he and six of his fellows are going to kill 2.5 million Israeli Jews and multiple millions/billions with the edge of their swords.
This can all take place if he can get Jesus to return right now. With his theological interpretations actually introducing evil in many forms including the Man of Sin as a substitute for Jesus Christ - LOOK OUT RCG MEMBERSHIP, YOU MIGHT JUST HAVE RETURN UNTO YOU THAT WHICH YOU ARE NOT EXPECTING IN THE LEAST.
Non_Ecliptic_Orbit said..."it reduces the whole prophecy shtick to liturgy."
ReplyDeleteIt's still more honest than the Tkach-GCI business-model, fishing for retirees to hand over their estates to his shell of a "church".
Reminds me of Bob Thiel. Thiel is as big a failure as Nostrodamous and Dave Pack.
ReplyDelete