Herbert Armstrong's Tangled Web of Corrupt Leaders

Wednesday, October 7, 2020

Does the Church of God Version of the Feast of Tabernacles Picture the Millennium?



The Feast of Tabernacles 
Does NOT 
Picture the Millennium!


In Pagan Holidays – or God’s Holy Days – Which? Herbert Armstrong wrote about the symbolism of the Feast of Tabernacles: “This festival is the picture of the Millennium!” Unfortunately, when Armstrong decided that Christians were obligated to observe the festivals outlined in the Pentateuch for the Israelites, he was not careful to follow scriptural hints regarding the deeper spiritual implications/meanings of the days. Since his death, a great many folks have challenged his understandings about the symbolism involved in some of the other holy days. Even so, Armstrong’s teachings about the meaning of the FOT still enjoy widespread acceptance within the Armstrong Churches of God culture.

The problem with Mr. Armstrong’s understanding of this feast was his slavish devotion to the notion that they pictured a progression of events within God’s plans for humankind. Hence, although he recognized the significance of the spring and fall harvests relative to these festivals, he failed to integrate that understanding with other scriptures related to both the symbolic meanings of certain rituals and the events themselves. “How can that be?” his devoted followers will demand.

In the booklet referenced at the beginning of this post, Armstrong wrote: “To portray His plan, God took the yearly material harvest seasons in ancient Israel as the picture of the spiritual harvest of souls. In the Holy Land there are two annual harvests. The first is the spring grain harvest. Second comes the main harvest. Notice that the Festival of Tabernacles is to be held ‘at the year's end’ (Ex. 34:22). In this verse the Festival of Tabernacles or Booths is specifically called the ‘feast of ingathering.’ The harvest year ended at the beginning of autumn. Just as Pentecost pictures the early harvest — this church age, so the Festival of Ingatherings or Tabernacles pictures the fall harvest — the great harvest of souls in the Millennium!”

The problem with this teaching is that it doesn’t agree with what is revealed about the timing of this great harvest of souls which is elaborated on in the book of Revelation! In the twentieth chapter of that book, we read: “And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.” – Revelation 20:4-5 Notice here that the first resurrection is clearly associated with the millennium. Continuing, we read: “And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison…And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.” – Revelation 20:7-13 Hence, we can clearly see that this great harvest of souls takes place AFTER the millennium, and AFTER Satan and his minions have been dealt with once and for all!


Moreover, Herbert Armstrong completely ignored the profound symbolism surrounding this festival which is recorded in the oft quoted twenty-third chapter of Leviticus, and which is further elaborated on quite extensively in the New Testament! I know that these arguments will have zero impact on the folks who have willingly swallowed the Armstrong Kool-Aid, but it is my hope that serious students of the Bible who are willing to take a second look might be persuaded by what is clearly revealed in Scripture regarding the symbolism of this festival.

In the book of Leviticus, we read: “Remember that this seven-day festival to the Lord – the Festival of Shelters – begins on the fifteenth day of the month, after you have harvested all the produce of the land…On the first day gather branches from magnificent trees – palm fronds, boughs from leafy trees, and willows that grow by the streams…For seven days you must live outside in little shelters. All native-born Israelites must live in shelters. This will remind each new generation of Israelites that I made their ancestors live in shelters when I rescued them from the land of Egypt. I am the Lord your God.’” (Leviticus 23:39-43, New Living Translation –here and throughout the rest of this article, unless otherwise noted)

Scripture indicates that the Israelites were told to live in temporary shelters each year for eight days so that they would not forget that they had lived in tents after leaving Egypt and before reaching the Promised Land. In the book of Hebrews, we read: “It was by faith that Abraham obeyed when God called him to LEAVE HOME (emphasis mine here and throughout) and go to another land that God would give him as his inheritance. He went without knowing where he was going. And even when he reached the land God promised him, HE LIVED THERE BY FAITH – for he was like a foreigner living in tents. And so did Isaac and Jacob, who inherited the same promise. Abraham was confidently looking forward to a city with eternal foundations, a city designed and built by God.” (Hebrews 11:8-10) In short, Abraham and his descendants were looking forward to a better and more permanent home.

A little further, we read: “All these people died still believing what God had promised them. They did not receive what was promised, but they saw it all from a distance and welcomed it. THEY AGREED THAT THEY WERE FOREIGNERS AND NOMADS HERE ON EARTH. Obviously, people who say such things are looking forward to a country they can call their own. If they had longed for the country they came from, they could have gone back. But they were looking for a better place, a heavenly homeland. That is why God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared a city for them.” (Hebrews 11:13-16) Do we begin to see the connection to our own circumstances as Christians?

Like the Israelites of old, God has called us out of Egypt (this sinful society) and has led us out into the wilderness. (John 6:44) We are different and peculiar compared to the people around us. (I Peter 2:9) Like the Israelites, we are heirs of the promises made to Abraham. (Galatians 3:29) Finally, we are also like the Israelites in the sense that we too are looking for a Promised Land (the Kingdom of God). Like the patriarchs of old, we are truly strangers and pilgrims on the earth as it now exists – the one deceived and influenced by Satan the devil.




There is, however, another meaning to this symbolism that is less general and more personal. Although it is unpleasant to contemplate, each one of us has an appointment with death. (Hebrews 9:27) Somewhere in the back of our minds, all of us understand that this life that we are currently enjoying is temporary – it will not last forever (we are subject to time and chance). Paul once told the saints at Corinth, “that our physical bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. These dying bodies cannot inherit what will last forever.” (I Corinthians 15:50) He went on to tell them that “our dying bodies must be transformed into bodies that will never die; our mortal bodies must be transformed into immortal bodies.” (I Corinthians 15:53)

Sometime later, Paul wrote another letter to the Corinthians. He told them that the light of Christ was shining in their hearts, but he described that treasure as residing in fragile clay jars. (II Corinthians 4:7) He talked about how Christians must face many trials and perils because of their association with Jesus Christ, but that this had resulted in them having the hope of eternal life. (II Corinthians 4:8-15) He continued: “That is why we never give up. Though our bodies are dying, our spirits are being renewed every day. For our present troubles are small AND WON’T LAST VERY LONG. Yet they produce for us a glory that vastly outweighs them and will last forever! So we don’t look at the troubles we can see now; rather, we fix our gaze on things that cannot be seen. For the things we see now will soon be gone, but the things we cannot see will last forever.” (II Corinthians 4:16-18)

In other words, Paul understood that Christians are currently living in temporary shelters (human bodies), and that they are looking forward to the time when they will be living in a permanent home (spiritual bodies). In his second letter to the saints at Corinth, we read: “For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven: If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked. For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.” (II Corinthians 5:1-4, KJV)

Peter also understood this concept. In addressing the saints toward the close of his ministry, he wanted to remind them about the truths which he had previously conveyed to them. He wrote: “Yea, I think it meet, as long as I am in this tabernacle, to stir you up by putting you in remembrance; knowing that shortly I must put off this my tabernacle, even as our Lord Jesus Christ hath shewed me.” (II Peter 1:13-14, KJV) Peter understood that this life is not permanent, and that he was going to die. He also knew that his present body could not inherit the Kingdom of God, and that he would have to shed that body and receive a new one in the resurrection.

As strangers and pilgrims in this world, Christians are looking to exchange a temporary home for a more permanent one (one that God has provided for us). Hence, for us, this is an important component of the symbolism of this Old Testament Festival.

And, finally, perhaps the most important component of this symbolism has to do with our relationship with Christ and Almighty God – the fact that Christ tabernacled with us in the past and will do so again someday with the Father! We read in the Gospel According to John that the “Word was made flesh and dwelt <tabernacled> among us.” – John 1:14, KJV Then, at the conclusion of all things, we are told in the book of Revelation: “And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.” - Revelation 21:1-3 I don’t know about you, but I think that this symbolism beats Armstrong’s teachings on the subject by a mile!

Lonnie Hendrix

21 comments:

  1. Lonnie Hendrix writes:

    The Feast of Tabernacles Does NOT Picture the Millennium!

    This is something I can agree with. But.

    “The two Sabbaths may picture the Millennium and the Eternal Rest” (William Macdonald, Believer's Bible Commentary).

    [The above sentence should read “the two Shabbatons may picture”; shabbatons are not as holy as shabbats].

    There is some tension in what is presented below, similar to comparing Lev 23:42-43 with Num 1:52-53.

    Lev 23:42 Ye shall dwell in booths [shukkah] seven days; all that are Israelites born shall dwell in booths:
    Lev 23:43 That your generations may know that I made the children of Israel to dwell in booths [shukkah], when I brought them out of the land of Egypt:

    Nu 1:52 The Israelites are to set up their tents [chanah] by divisions, each man in his own camp under his own standard.
    Nu 1:53 The Levites, however, are to set up their tents [chanah] around the tabernacle of the Testimony... (NIV).

    Defining the eternal rest or state:

    Rev 22:5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

    "Day extends indefinitely without interruption because darkness never comes" (Robert Mounce, Revelation, NICNT, p.397) - one ‘great’ day.

    It is suggested that the Last Great Day pictures the goal/realization of God's plan.

    Ex 25:8 And let them make me a sanctuary; that I may dwell among them
    Lev 26:11 And I will set my tabernacle among you:...
    Lev 26:12 And I will walk among you, and will be your God, and ye shall be my people.

    So I would suggest that the First Day of the Feast of Tabernacles may picture the Millennium and the Eighth day may picture the Eternal State.

    Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

    Because of God’s holiness he could not dwell with human beings for everyone would end up as burnt offerings so to speak. Only His “help meet” Jesus Christ could interact with human beings for Him. This was a concession considering Jesus Christ’s holiness is deadly as well (Ex 33:20).

    When there is no more death and uncleanness on the earth there is no more need for temporary dwellings such as the Mosaic Tabernacle and the Solomonic Temples that Christ had a dwelling presence in and the Ezekielian Temple which Christ will also have dwelling presence in while still in heaven.

    The temporary and limited dwelling in earthly structures looked forward to a future reality.

    Isa 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth:
    Isa 65:18 for, behold, I create Jerusalem...

    Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth..
    Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem

    "In light of the whole Scripture, it appears that the Millennium is like a “firstfruits” of the eternal state. The Millennium will be like a preview of the eternal messianic kingdom that will be revealed fully in the eternal state. Therefore, because the two are alike in nature, they share distinct similarities. Yet because they are both different revealed time periods, they would likewise reflect some dissimilarities” (Ralph p.945).

    One dissimilarity is that during the Millennium God and Jesus Christ will be in heaven; while in the eternal state they will both be on the earth.

    continued next post

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  2. One combined similarity and dissimilarity (works better in colour):

    Jn 7:37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst [dipsao], let him come unto me, and drink.
    Jn 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living [zao] water.

    Rev 7:17 For the Lamb ... and shall lead them unto living fountains [pege] of waters...

    Rev 21:6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst [dipsao] of the fountain [pege] of the water of life [zoe] freely.

    Rev 22:17b Come. And let him that is athirst [dipsao] come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

    “The “I” of v6c makes it clear that God is the one who makes living water freely available to the thirsty, whereas in Rev 7:17 it is the Lamb who leads people to the fountains of living water. The same combinations of motif (the invitation to the thirsty to come and drink [freely]; the well of living water) also occurs in Rev 22:17, John 7:37-38, and Odes Sol. 30:1-2...

    “The combination of the invitation to drink (without cost) and the mention of living waters links these four passages and suggests a traditional formulation in three versions: (1) Rev 21:6 and 22:17 are similar versions of the same tradition and are relatively close to Isa 55:1. (2) Ode Sol. 30:1-2 omits the “without cost, freely motif and reverse the two motives found in Rev 21:6 and 22:17. (3) John 7:37-38, which also omits the “without cost, freely” motif, contains the two motives found in Rev 21:6 and 22:17 in the proper order...” (David E. Aune, Revelation 17-22, WBC, pp.1127-28).

    What then does the six non-holy days picture? Perhaps a judgment period to mirror the time from Adam to the future return of Christ, but in reverse order?

    As an aside:

    Isa 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth:
    Isa 65:18 for, behold, I create Jerusalem...

    Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth..
    Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem

    In verse 65:17 God says he will create a new heaven and earth, then in 65:18 he says he creates Jerusalem.

    In 21:1 John saw a new heaven and earth and in 21:2 he saw a new Jerusalem.

    Without going into detail, but informed by a little ANE cosmology - from microcosm to macrocosm - what was actually created in Genesis 1 was Eden with its garden.

    Da 2:35b and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.

    and like the stone above, Eden was to spread out and fill the whole world.

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  3. Before someone points out my mistake with Numbers 1:52-53, where I fooled myself with the translation, this Scripture perhaps should have been used:

    Nu 24:5 How goodly are thy tents [’ohel], O Jacob, and thy tabernacles [miskan], O Israel].

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  4. eh, there are multiple meaning to events/teachings all through the bible...one doesn't negate the other.

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  5. I could never understand how a feast of 7 days could represent a 1000 year period. As they taught me in Math, 7 into 1000 doesn't go!
    I believe Ron Dart believed that living in booths, or temporary accommodation, represents our sojourning on this earth, so that the 7 days of Taberanacles actually represent the 7000 years of God's plan. In that case, only the 7th day of Tabernacles would then represent the millenium, although even this would still be temporary. The 8th day would then represent the final, and permanent part of the plan of God, when there would be no more human beings in exoistence, but only spirit beings in the family of God..

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  6. If Rosh Hashanah memorialized the blowing of trumpets (which were used to summon the people to assembly, movement and war - see Numbers 10:1-10) and Yom Kippur portrays the people's reconciliation with God by means of a blood sacrifice and the removal of their sins, then it would kinda make sense that Tabernacles would symbolize the temporary nature of humankind's current habitations and the great harvest of souls - where the vast majority of all of the folks who have ever lived will be summoned forth to receive salvation or eternal death in the Great White Throne Judgment (In other words, receive a permanent home - no more wandering in the wilderness).

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  7. If the FOT doesn't represent the millennium, I would have got that feedback from God, God does communicate to His children. So as far as I'm concerned, the ACOGs have that right.

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  8. The truth is that the ancient Hebrew holy days where predated by similar days kept by civilizations that observed holy days around the spring and fall harvest periods. These days where barrowed from earlier civilizations and where not ordained by God.

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  9. What happened to being an Church of God International member for years. Clearly did not know what got taught in CGI during the Feast of Tabernacles.

    What other basics do you not know? Because you have never been in CGI. Now that's the truth. You are a liar and can only glean the gossip.

    Truth will out.

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  10. The Feast of Tabernacles does not picture the thousand years in Revelation 20.

    Where in scripture do we find any mention of seven days equaling 1000 years?

    We don't!

    However, we have two verses (Psalm 90:4 and II Peter 3:8) that say 1000 years is as a day to God.

    The great day in John 7 was the last day of the Feast of Tabernacles (Christ was giving the spiritual meaning of the water ceremony of that day), not the 8th Day.

    Therefore, logic points to the 7th day of the Feast of Tabernacles being the time referred to in Revelation 20.

    We have no explicit explantation of the 8th Day, but it seems to logically point to something new (the 8th day in our calendar week, which is Sunday is the beginning of a new week).

    It, therefore, seems plausible that the 8th Day correlates to Revelation 21 & 22.

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  11. Some ideas become so entrenched that those affected by them no longer consider their etiology. The development of the Armstrongist meaning of the FOT in historical context happened something like this:

    1. The meaning of the FOT is clearly stated in the OT. It is an agricultural festival that also hearkens back to the exodus and coming into the promised land. This is the plain truth Biblical explanation of the FOT.

    2. Christ updated the symbols for the Passover but did not modify the FOT. It stands just as it did in the Torah. (The question of the replacement of the OT by the NT is relevant here but I will put that aside. The point can be made without it.)

    3. In the Twentieth Century, the Armstrongists developed a theory, later to become dogma, that the FOT symbolized the Millennium. They (Armstrong? Hoeh?) took it upon themselves without any established authority to abrogate the OT meaning of the FOT left in place by Christ and ascribe to it a new meaning drawn from their custom eschatology. And at the same time they changed the details of its observation. The most alarming aspect of their alteration to the FOT was that it was made a requirement for salvation. Hence, they embarked on Jesus Plus heresy. I am not sure how this decision was accredited or if there was any attempt to accredit it.

    4. In the last analysis, the symbolism of the FOT as the Millennium rests upon the authority that someone (probably HWA) assumed to "change times and laws." Modern day Armstrongists need to explore the foundations of that authority rather than blithely continuing down the same, certainly erroneous, path. Keeping the FOT however they want is not an issue that anyone cars about. It is just a denominational distinctive. The fact that they made it a requirement for salvation absolutely is an issue.

    Note: Hank Hanegraaff cited research (his book "The Apocalypse Code") that indicates that the term 1,000 years in Revelation was just an expression that meant "a long time." It was like saying a "gazillion years" nowadays. I tend to think that it really means 1,000 years but it is worthwhile to be aware of this alternate meaning.


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  12. https://www.saultstar.com/news/local-news/major-conference-at-local-hotel-meets-provincial-guidelines-aph

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  13. This is how the PCG is keeping their feast in Canada
    https://www.saultstar.com/news/local-news/major-conference-at-local-hotel-meets-provincial-guidelines-aph

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  14. Anonymous 10/9 @ 1:56,

    Since you are too lazy to do your own research (I supplied the info sometime back to verify my affiliation with CGI), I will give you the actually links to do so! Not that this will penetrate your extreme prejudice, but I don't want to leave your assertions about me go unchallenged and infect other folks with your doubts about my veracity. Here are the links:

    Notice my article on page 4: https://static1.squarespace.com/static/50438d1dc4aa994481346f77/t/50b2ba9ae4b054abacd84bfc/1353890458559/IN_vol_30_no1.pdf

    Notice my article on page 8:
    https://static1.squarespace.com/static/50438d1dc4aa994481346f77/t/50b2bad9e4b054abacd84dfd/1353890521845/IN_vol_30_no2.pdf

    Notice my article on the front page:
    https://static1.squarespace.com/static/50438d1dc4aa994481346f77/t/50b2bbc1e4b0c512afb2b497/1353890753079/IN_vol_30_no4.pdf

    Notice my article on the front page:
    https://static1.squarespace.com/static/50438d1dc4aa994481346f77/t/50b2bc50e4b05036d3afcdee/1353890896723/IN_vol_31_no1.pdf

    Notice my article on page 6:
    https://static1.squarespace.com/static/50438d1dc4aa994481346f77/t/50b2be0ae4b05036d3afd08a/1353891338958/IN_vol_31_no3.pdf

    Sorry, this will require a little copy and paste technique, but this should be enough to establish my former connection to CGI.

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  15. Well said Lonnie/Miller and 5:14.

    I find it tragic that Armstrongists censor all alternative views and only accept what HWA and his henchmen proclaim as “truth” even though it was their once open-mindedness to alternative views that would’ve led to them giving HWA’s teachings a fair hearing. This obstinate refusal to look at the flip side and what others believe about the same topic and why they may disagree with Armstrongist dogma and to engage in respectful debate to prove who is correct is a sure and sad sign of cultism.

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  16. What a tangled web you weave, when you practise to deceive Miller Jones/Lonnie.

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  17. Anonymous 10/10 @ 5:03,

    What???? I have supplied EVIDENCE on many occasions that my assertions about my former affiliations with WCG, CGI, 7th Day Baptists and COG7th Day are valid. If you have EVIDENCE which contradicts my assertions, BRING IT ON! Let's see it. I have NOTHING to hide. I have clearly and plainly presented who I am, from whence I came and what I believe. I'm not the one here posting as "Anonymous"!

    You're the one who has been hitting at me from the shadows and offering NOTHING to back up your criticisms. Gary has provided this forum for people to present their experiences and opinions within/about Armstrongism. If you find fault or disagree with someone's perspective, then by all means present your arguments against the points he/she has made. Shouting "YOU'RE WRONG!" or "YOU'RE A DECEIVER!" from the sidelines may be personally satisfying, but it doesn't do much for the rest of us.

    Lonnie

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  18. "Scripture indicates that the Israelites were told to live in temporary shelters each year for eight days"



    Really? Eight days? Here I thought it said seven. Proof that Lonnie hasn't a clue!

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  19. Your "proof" that I haven't got a clue is a rather simplistic rendering of a complex scripture. I will quote what you only reference. In the twenty-third chapter of Leviticus, we read:
    And the Lord said to Moses, “Give the following instructions to the people of Israel. Begin celebrating the Festival of Shelters on the fifteenth day of the appointed month—five days after the Day of Atonement. This festival to the Lord will last for seven days. On the first day of the festival you must proclaim an official day for holy assembly, when you do no ordinary work. For seven days you must present special gifts to the Lord. The eighth day is another holy day on which you present your special gifts to the Lord. This will be a solemn occasion, and no ordinary work may be done that day. (“These are the Lord’s appointed festivals. Celebrate them each year as official days for holy assembly by presenting special gifts to the Lord—burnt offerings, grain offerings, sacrifices, and liquid offerings—each on its proper day. These festivals must be observed in addition to the Lord’s regular Sabbath days, and the offerings are in addition to your personal gifts, the offerings you give to fulfill your vows, and the voluntary offerings you present to the Lord.) “Remember that this seven-day festival to the Lord—the Festival of Shelters—begins on the fifteenth day of the appointed month, after you have harvested all the produce of the land. The first day and the eighth day of the festival will be days of complete rest. On the first day gather branches from magnificent trees—palm fronds, boughs from leafy trees, and willows that grow by the streams. Then celebrate with joy before the Lord your God for seven days. You must observe this festival to the Lord for seven days every year. This is a permanent law for you, and it must be observed in the appointed month[m] from generation to generation. For seven days you must live outside in little shelters. All native-born Israelites must live in shelters. This will remind each new generation of Israelites that I made their ancestors live in shelters when I rescued them from the land of Egypt. I am the Lord your God.” Leviticus 23:33-43
    Does the festival last for seven days or eight? The "Last Great Day" seems to be both included and excluded within the context. You may wish to consult some commentaries (or even some of Herbie's own remarks) on the subject. Are you suggesting that we opt for the exclusion of the EIGHTH day? OR Did you just feel obligated to respond to my challenge to offer some proof of my deceptiveness? Either way, forgive me for suggesting this seems a little thin! Got anything else?

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  20. 1:46 PM

    Seriously??!! You think that Lonnie’s minor textual error in stating 8 days instead of 7 days means he has no clue about what he writes??!! Did you scrutinize HWA’s writings and all the ACOG literature in the same way you’ve gone over Lonnie’s post with a fine tooth comb??!! Did you come to the same conclusion that HWA and his ACOGs “hasn’t a clue” either I wonder??!!

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