It always seems like the Living Church of God members are the ones getting talked down to with these weekly messages. It is always LCG members who need to be doing something in order to impress God. There never seems to be any accountability on what the leadership of the church should be doing
Will we see Gerald Weston and the ministry setting goals on how to be better leaders in the church who minister graciously and love unconditionally? Will they become followers of Jesus or still be pillars of the law? What changes to the ministers and leaders need to make to improve their relationship with God and membership? What will they do to improve their spiritual health?
Let the leadership of the LCG set the example and set goals as an example for the brethren. Be the example, for once.
Goals for the Coming Year: Solomon advised in the book of Proverbs, “Ponder the path of your feet, and let all your ways be established. Do not turn to the right or the left; remove your foot from evil” (Proverbs 4:26–27). As we return from the Feast, inspired by the sermons and fellowship, it is a good time to think about setting goals for the coming year. What changes would you like to make, or do you need to make, to improve your relationship with God or your family or other individuals? What can you do to improve your physical or spiritual health? What can you do to serve God and others more effectively? How can you prepare now for the Kingdom of God? The Apostle Paul urged Christians to “walk circumspectly [carefully, diligently]” and make the most of the time at your disposal (Ephesians 5:15–16). The Apostle Peter exhorted his audience to “grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ” (2 Peter 3:18). What books can you read, what classes can you take, what topics can you study in the Bible, and what experiences can you arrange that will help you and your family grow and prepare for the Kingdom of God? Set some worthwhile goals for the coming year so that you can grow to be a truly profitable servant of God.
Have a profitable Sabbath,
Douglas S. Winnail
Winnail exhorted his people to grow in grace and knowledge!
ReplyDeleteThat is the perfect goal for the sheep and the ministry!
LCG has finally attempted to address the subjects of Justification and Grace in an article by Dexter Wakefied: https://www.lcg.org/lcn/2020/september-october/you-can-take-it-you
In a way this article is fantastic – because it correctly defines salvation by grace - not law! That's HUGE - and may be the beginning of the end of LCG!
However, the article does contain several theological failures. For example, it places more emphasis on works, with no shout out to the work of Savior Jesus. Weirdly, as the title proclaims, the article is mainly about building character to take into the Kingdom, with zero direct scriptural support. Also, the author falsely claims that "so-called Christians" confuse the concept of justification with salvation.
The people of LCG can grow in grace and knowledge by studying justification and grace - now that your ministry has finally brought these subjects into your church.
Question why, after all these years they are now talking about grace and knowledge. Can they be the experts on these topics - when they are so new to what other churches know to be essential concepts? Read what other Christians have to say about Justification and Grace.
Since, LCG finally admits that Salvation is by grace - all the people need to spend their time, make their goals centered on learning all they can about the neglected Biblical realities of Justification and Grace. If you care about salvation, you will want to know all you can about Justification and Grace. It won't take much learning before you know more than your ministry does!
I think that Winnails advice is sound, however, it should start with the ministry themselves doing those suggestions for themselves.
ReplyDeleteWinnail wrote:
"What books can you read, what classes can you take, what topics can you study in the Bible, and what experiences can you arrange that will help you and your family grow and prepare for the Kingdom of God? Set some worthwhile goals for the coming year so that you can grow to be a truly profitable servant of God."
Basic leadership 101 is that you must eat the same food as the troops, and pull harder than anyone else! It seems to me that most COG ministers are stuck in some kind of "Groundhog's Day" holding pattern, and are not embracing creative change, or habit, or personal development. Rare is the exception.
This is the ACOG ministry
ReplyDeleteWe have decided to repent and not abuse and lord it over our members. We have resolved to be thoughtful and respectful of members rights.
Yes, you ARE day dreaming. This IS a joke. Ha, ha, ha. Ha, ha, ha.
Do I have to spew hate in order for my comment to get approved on here? Even if I was an athiest and had no religious affiliation, I'd still be appalled at this site, and how this is a miserable way to live. IF these groups are so corrupt and evil, as many claim, it seems illogical that so many people would spend so much of their life's time obsessing over their inner workings and be involved in such endless gossip. My advice: believe what you wish, you will stand before God and answer for yourself alone, but do yourself a favor and stay off this site. At least you wont have to submerge yourself in such misery. I guess I should take my own advice and make this the only and last comment I'll make on here. I hope you all find grace and forgiveness in the sight of God.
ReplyDelete"Have a profitable $abbath"
ReplyDeleteIt is profitable if you are a $nake in the mini$try.
"you will stand before God and answer for yourself alone"
ReplyDeleteThanks for the warning Herb. Now crawl back in your grave.
I think the COGs and WCG always taught salvation was by grace, but works determined your reward.
ReplyDeleteThus the emphasis was primarily on works, and you could still lose salvation.
I think most religions require some level of goodness - but what is good can sometimes include slaughter.
If LCG is reversing their doctrine by saying salvation is a result of grace, not keeping the law, then members don't need to worry about having salvation withheld from them if they don't tithe to the LCG.
ReplyDelete"I guess I should take my own advice and make this the only and last comment I'II make on here."
ReplyDeleteYes, yes. Great advice.
1053AM You suggest we leave the site because of “hateful” content
ReplyDeletePerhaps we should “hate”
1. Banning of interracial marriage (unless the colors are close enough to eachother)
2. Divorce and Remarriage doctrines (which stretch if it’s a certain minister {profitable Sabbath})
3. Pride of being “Phillidelphians”
4. Shunning family or fellow brethren who isn’t part of your COG
If you want us to leave, you first. We’ll be sure to follow you as you and your ministers have followed Christ.
If LCG is reversing their doctrine by saying salvation is a result of grace, not keeping the law, then members don't need to worry about having salvation withheld from them if they don't tithe to the LCG.
ReplyDeleteYou don't understand. LCG teaches what HWA taught. Salvation is a free gift of grace. You cannot earn it.
However, just as you can throw away any free gift, you can throw away your free gift of salvation by failing to use it to produce works commensurate with the gift.
Set goals now (I guess), after the Feast. Because if you do it January 1, those will be "resolutions" and they'll be wrong.
ReplyDeleteAnon, October 19, 2020 at 6:06 PM, wrote:
ReplyDelete******
"...However, just as you can throw away any free gift, you can throw away your free gift of salvation by failing to use it to produce works commensurate with the gift."
******
Anon, You illustrate your belief in earning salvation by your works, b/c when you say that one "can throw away any free gift," then you must believe that it is you who are doing something to prevent that "free gift" from being thrown away.
Of course, that is exactly what Doug Winnail also believes: earning salvation by works of SELF, as if one could somehow impress God. Doug cites Solomon, Paul, Peter, and his own thoughts with so much focus on "you" and "your:" salvation is solely up to what "you" do/does.
Doug concluded with saying: "...what experiences can you arrange that will help you and your family grow and prepare for the Kingdom of God? Set some worthwhile goals for the coming year so that you can grow to be a truly profitable servant of God."
Salvation is via grace, and if that were true, then what would Jesus Christ say about the Kingdom of God and setting goals?
Matthew 6:33 "But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you."
And Jesus Christ was not talking about some Mickey Mouse Millennium of 1,000 years of Jesus reigning on earth and beginning that reign very soon...and then failing after 1,000 years after Satan is loosed from some pit and then goes out to deceive the entire world, all four corners of the earth, again. But what about them goals? What might Jesus Christ say about those goals, goals for the future, goals for even "the morrow?" Here it is:
"Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day [is] the evil thereof." Matthew 6:34
Are Jesus' words as written there really true? Yes, and we may, unlike Doug Winnail, express that confidence just as the Apostle Paul told us: "Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform [it] until the day of Jesus Christ:" Phil 1:6
How confident are we in what God does by His Spirit, through His Son? Doug never tells us, but ime will tell...
John
John
ReplyDeleteThen how do explain the existence of demons? Why will God destroy them if He can clean them up Himself?
PS, Phil 1:6 means that God will always do His part, just like a teacher in a classroom. But a teacher cannot do the students part.
I am sorry, I did not realize that HWA or any of the COGs ever acknowledged the existence of grace or taught that salvation had anything to do with grace.
ReplyDeleteHowever, just as the COGs have a Jesus who is not a sufficient savior, their grace is not biblical grace, if it is conditional upon works.
COG grace is not grace if grace evaporates unless some undisclosed amount of works gives it the power of salvation.
Galatians 3:11 Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because “the righteous will live by faith.”
Yes, righteousness is required for salvation!
However, your own righteousness could never earn your salvation.
Justification, the term Wakefield mangled in his article, means being made righteous because of the righteousness of Jesus. Romans 5:18 Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
So people of the COGs, set a goal of learning about biblical grace and justification - prove whether your COG understands these terms.
Your church is not teaching, from the Bible, much about these terms. If you care about salvation, you will learn all there is to know grace and justification.
The COGS worship a cruel God who offers a free gift of salvation and then yanks it back if you don't work hard enough of for it. I can't find that God in my Bible.
ReplyDeleteJohn,
ReplyDeleteInteresting thoughts on John 6:33-34. It sounds like the Kingdom of God is to be sought and gained each day as we come before His throne, the Lord frames it within the day and not looking toward tomorrow for it. Some may claim that He's ONLY talking about not thinking about tomorrow's troubles. But, the framework doesn't support that as much as daily sustenance and proclaiming God's lordship each day. Jesus is our Lord and King right now for those that choose to follow Him. Thanks for the post.
10:53,
ReplyDeleteIt seems you lack empathy and understanding; many comment here because they have family and friends deceived within these cults. That creates its own pain and sadness, not the website. These websites have helped people leave the cults and come to a fuller understanding of Christ's sacrifice and Lordship. Because the COGs are the basis for this site, it can't always be pretty. Theil Flurry Pack Doug Jimmy Vik etc. have bad effects, don't blame the website.
8.16 AM
ReplyDeleteExactly. 10.53 is shooting the messengers. He/she is like banana republic dictators who jail and murder dissidents.
Anon, October 19, 2020 at 10:21 PM, asked: "...Then how do explain the existence of demons? Why will God destroy them if He can clean them up Himself?..."
ReplyDelete******
Anon, the book/chapters of such as Exodus, 1 Samuel, 2 Samuel, and 2 Chronicles of the Old Testament have a number of references to how evil spirits have been used to accomplish various purposes. The New Testament also gives illustrations of what they do.
But, there are no verses indicating God cleaning up any demons. Satan and his angels, referred to as "goats," were to exist, but it is only for a temporary period of time:
"Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:" Matthew 25:41
They must be destroyed. Peter tells us that the evil angels are as natural brute beasts, "...made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;" 2 Peter 2:12
Again, they are not going to be cleaned up by God, but will eventually be destroyed.
Time will tell...
John
John
ReplyDeleteMy point is that if God can clean up humans, then why not demons? Surely He loves them as well. One point I believe that HWA had right was saying that the bible is like a manual, similar to a washing machine manual. Meaning that the ultimate reality is the creation rather than people's interpretation of the bible. There is no evidence of God cleaning people up. People do not experience it personally, neither do they observe it in any around them. There is zero evidence of such a phenomena. Yet people keep religiously repeating by means of scripture juggling. that it exists.
Only we can clean ourselves up. No one else. Not even God.
Time need not tell. Open your eyes to the world around you!
Hey Anonymous of October 21, 2020 at 4:44 PM,
ReplyDeleteYour COG theology on humanity's reliance on being self-cleaning is faulty.
Christianity is all about being saved by a perfect Savior.
Justification is humans being made perfectly righteous because of the perfect righteousness of Jesus atoning and covering us.
COG theology is fatally deficient for not understanding or preaching about justification, redemption, grace, and the role of the Savior in saving.
Anon, October 21, 2020 at 4:44 PM, said:
ReplyDelete******
My point is that if God can clean up humans, then why not demons? Surely He loves them as well...Only we can clean ourselves up. No one else. Not even God..."
How did you clean yourself? Help us, if you have done such a thing!
And those demons? Are they buddies of yours? Do you think they ought to be cleaned up, saved? What will Satan and his buddies, those demons, do when they exit some pit after 1,000 years?
Sorry, but it isn't God's will to clean those vile, evil, things up. And where do you read where God "loves them" demons "as well?"
Good news is that it is God's will to save all humanity:
"Then shall the King say unto them [[symbolized as sheep]] on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:" Matthew 25:34
And that's been God's will, and Jesus told us so, from the foundation of the world. God does it; you don't. Did God change His mind?
Good news is that it is God's will to Satan and his angels:
"Then shall he say also unto them [[symbolized as goats]] on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:" Matthew 25:41
And that's been God's will, and Jesus told us so.
What does it all boil down to?
:46 "And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal."
And that destruction [[2 Peter 2:12 cited in a previous post above]] of Satan and his angels will be everlasting; they will never ever return.
And speaking of goats, do you not recall the following hint in Leviticus 16?
:21 And Aaron shall lay both his hands upon the head of the live goat, and confess over him all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions in all their sins, putting them upon the head of the goat, and shall send [him] away by the hand of a fit man into the wilderness:
:22 And the goat shall bear upon him all their iniquities unto a land not inhabited: and he shall let go the goat in the wilderness.
No destruction there, but it represented a 1,000 year "pit stop:" still alive, but not for long. Eventually, the following verse showing total destruction, leaving nothing behind, will also be fulfilled:
:27 And the bullock [for] the sin offering, and the goat [for] the sin offering, whose blood was brought in to make atonement in the holy [place], shall [one] carry forth without the camp; and they shall burn in the fire their skins, and their flesh, and their dung.
Now, if you think that is God's way of loving demons and cleaning up demons, then you are welcome to believe anything you want, but
Time will tell...
John
John
ReplyDeleteThere were several psychopaths in my congregation. These too have demonic minds. They too are "vile, evil things." Why would a loving God will that the demons be destroyed but not the humans. That God doesn't love all His created spirit beings, including those who chose to become demons, is an insult to God's character.
"How did (do) you clean yourself up?"
That's a topic in itself, but for starters, prayer and bible study are tools of growth, as is meditating on God's laws Psalm 1:2.
That humans can grow is self evident. Humans work hard and acquire all manner of skills. That you ignore the obvious is denial on your part. Or do you believe that eg, musicians and sportsmen didn't put out effort to develop their skills?
To Oct 22, 12:53, you don't know your Bible well enough. Mt 25:41 reveals that the demons' final judgment has been finalized. The lake of fire was prepared for them because they have continued to sin over a very long period of time. In essence they have gone past the point of turning back. Their character has been set.
ReplyDeleteThe fact of the matter is that God has set a time limit and judgment for everyone, humans and angels, and if there is no progress towards faith in and obedience toward God within the judging period the end result is death. That is the decree of the Lord. They will not let an angry, rebellious, sorrowful and unbelieving soul continue in eternal misery. "The soul that sinneth, it shall die" (Ezek 18:4,20)
Also, your answer that your "clean-up" is done by yourself proves how ignorant you are of the redeeming, cleansing and saving work of Jesus Christ. That's why The Father sent Him. Otherwise you would die in your sins forever, regardless of what self-help methods you use.
Anon, asked/commented with saying: "...Why would a loving God will that the demons be destroyed but not the humans. That God doesn't love all His created spirit beings, including those who chose to become demons, is an insult to God's character..."
ReplyDelete******
Jesus loves humans. Simply read John 3:16-17 should demonstrate that fact; however,
Jesus didn't, for example, love Satan [[including his demons]] directing the lives of religious leaders, any leaders, b/c He spoke to them saying this:
"Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it." John 8:44
Jesus spoke to them things driving the Pharisees and such like, saying:
Matthew 23:33 "[Ye] serpents, [ye] generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and [some] of them ye shall kill and crucify; and [some] of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute [them] from city to city:
35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation."
Jesus knew who to blame for sins (I John 3:8). None of those Pharisees were alive back in Abel's day or in Zacharias' day, but Satan and his buddies, those other demons, were. They, the entire generation, of them are only here temporarily, but time will really tell.
For example, what is ahead for Satan?
"All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never [shalt] thou [be] any more." Ezekiel 28:19
Time will tell...
John