Christians are to flee during the Great Tribulation,
where might the place into the wilderness be?
"Are some of God’s people actually going to flee right before the tribulation?
According to Jesus, the answer is yes.
Jesus taught:
20 And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no nor ever shall be” (Matthew 24:20-21, NKJV throughout, unless otherwise indicated).
Let this be perfectly clear, there are two groups of God’s people mentioned in Revelation 12–one which goes to a place of safety and one which does not. It states:
14 But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent. 15 So the serpent spewed water out of his mouth like a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away by the flood. 16 But the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed up the flood which the dragon had spewed out of his mouth. 17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. (Revelation 12:14-17).
The above shows that the church (symbolized by a woman) will “fly into the wilderness to her place.” Being in heaven with Jesus is not the same as being in any wilderness–hence this is not some type of “rapture” as many Protestants believe in. Also notice that the church “is nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent.” Hence, this is how Jesus is intending to keep His Philadelphia Christians “from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world” (Revelation 3:10). This “hour of trial,” this “time and times and half a time” includes the period of the Great Tribulation and the Day of the Lord.
Notice also that since a flood of water is used to try to destroy the church, but is helped by the earth, that the church is NOT in heaven,..."
I only bring this up again as Bobus is bringing the topic of "Fleeing" up again. Like Dave Pack, Gerald Flurry and himself, the topic of "Fleeing" is probably one the most dangerous romps around the scriptures, taking them out of time and context and cobbling them into a teaching that will have dire consequences for anyone so inclined.
I'll briefly and again show you where the author of Revelation got his tall tale about what he "saw" in vision. He saw the night sky from which many tales in the Bible are put together. Night Flix we might say.
I would add Revelation 12
The Woman and the Dragon12 A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. 2 She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth. 3 Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads. 4 Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child the moment he was born. 5 She gave birth to a son, a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.”[a] And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne. 6 The woman fled into the wilderness to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days.
Simply put, the author saw Virgo the Virgin at this time of year (Pray that your flight be not in Winter) legs apart and about to deliver the morning Sun. Between her and sunrise is Ophiuchus (meaning "the Serpent Holder") and his huge serpent waiting to devour the child. Fortunately and right where the sun is rising, lies the Milky Way or Sea of Glass, or in this case "A mighty flood". Behind the Mighty Sea is Aquila the Eagle waiting to take the woman to safety as her baby is carried up into heaven safe and sound too. This would be the Sun itself, finally rising without incident and rising to the position of "Most High" or Noon.
What is to note, however, is that the literal view of Fleeing and making both Revelation and its sky story apply in our time and to the church literally are simply one of the most dangerous teachings or speculations put into the heads of church members.
The Book of Revelation is a failed first-century prophecy meant for those trapped in Jerusalem during the Roman siege of 70 AD so there's that too.
It is never going to happen literally, though you can go out this evening and see the tale above your head. Those who think they know and try to make it happen and those who go along with any "time to flee" are in for one hell of a dangerous mistake.
Just one guy's observation or rather "scoffing" to protect the innocent.
Bobus misspelled fleeCing.
ReplyDeleteWill accommodation type be based on a first-come basis, or will the handful of Anglo-Saxon members get hotels while the rest are to fend for themselves in the caves? Can we find accommodation ourselves, or will Bob handle bookings exclusively? Must we pay in advance? Is there a deadline? Can this be paid with Second Tithe? Do we have a choice of accommodation type? Can we change or swap if the rooms don't suit us? When we reach the site, must we register? Is there a registration fee? Can the fee be paid with Second Tithe? Will there be more than one Place of Safety site? Do we have a choice of sites? So many unanswered questions!
ReplyDeleteIs the woman the church? Could this refer to those who become believers during the tribulation, after the church has been raptured? If the church age began at Pentecost and ends with the rapture before or at the beginning of the Great Tribulation, then as the Gospel is preached to all the world, as a witness, those who come to faith might be the ones who flee into the wilderness. They can be believers, but not necessarily church members of the church was raptured before this takes place. Isn't it during the tribulation that the Gospel will be preached to all the world, then shall the end come? Did HWA get his chronology or sequence of events mixed up (surprise!)?
ReplyDeleteIt sounds like the "Place of Safety" may be the COG equivalent of Purgatory! Imagine being in a confined space listening to Bob for 3 and a half years!
ReplyDeleteThe Book of Revelation makes me a little uneasy. I have seen people wander into its perplexing terrain of symbolism never to come back again. The book was added to the end of the Bible by Luther not because it seemed like a summing up or a plan for the future and that was its chronological fit but because he was uncertain that it should even be in the canon at all. Eusebius included it in the canon based on a fifty-fifty belief on the part of Christian churches that it should be there. It almost didn't make it. Typically, Armstrongists would not trust an ancient historian like Eusebius who was aligned with the "pagan counterfeit of the True Church" for anything. But, apparently, because Eusebius' canon passed through the Protestant hands of a collection of King James translators of "Israelite" heritage it became suitably credentialed. (Armstrongism may be the only religion in history that has a racist underpinning for the validity of the Biblical canon).
ReplyDeleteWhat if we did not have the Book of Revelation? It would not affect, I believe, the mainstream Christian movement substantially. Sure, there would be some high-flown concepts missing but we could put those on hold for a while. They are not on the critical path to salvation. But its absence would cut the heart out of apocalyptic Millerism - it would become just a shell. For the apocalyptic Millerites one would think that the Bible was about 90 percent Book of Revelation with the other 10 percent being mostly OT and maybe a little Paul. Certainly not a lot about Jesus.
Another issue is that I am essentially a preterist. This is just about the opposite of being and Armstrongist. Armstrongists believe that almost all prophecy is future and I believe that almost all prophecy has already been played out. The church being protected in the wilderness is something that happened around 70 AD. And the type-antitype business is something that Millerites got avid about - dubiously.
That is my context for receiving florid assertions on The Place of Safety. I think apocalyptic Millerites would do well to recognize that excitement about the Parousia is a form of addiction. And the joy in Christianity lies in another, more serene direction.
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ReplyDeleteby Bart D. Ehrman.
Even if you choose not to believe the book, you will learn about the culture of the times - Jews and Greeks.
The problem with the COG culture is trying to shoehorn the Bible into the infallible word of God, and explaining away scriptures, like Paul only preaching Christ crucified, James rendering the final decision in Acts 15 instead of Peter, and many others.
Then why are you here N_E_O. No Herbert pun intended.
ReplyDeleteRemember some years ago, in a series of sermons David Pack micromanaged (with a few exceptions) every minute detail of the RCG's eventual exodus to the mythical "Place of Safety" in Petra.
ReplyDeleteOne part of the journey's itinerary was flying to Jerusalem, then fleeing to Petra. Of course Petra is in Jordan, and travel to Israel usually has tight controls. Why not fly to Amman? Dave didn't divulge details here.
In Luke in 21: when Jerusalem is surrounded by armies (making travel to Jerusalem even more difficult) those in Judea are to flee... So, my guess was Dave has everyone go to Jerusalem, okay, why? They're now in Judea, so they are instructed to flee. Go to Judea to flee Judea. No, I didn't think that really made sense either.
ReplyDeleteNEO 9:22 AM said:
"Another issue is that I am essentially a preterist. This is just about the opposite of being and Armstrongist. Armstrongists believe that almost all prophecy is future and I believe that almost all prophecy has already been played out. The church being protected in the wilderness is something that happened around 70 AD. And the type-antitype business is something that Millerites got avid about - dubiously".
Although I am far from a preterist NEO, my approach to prophecy is pretty much the same as my when I was heavily involved in sports. The game is played within the confines of the rules, and the play or action comes to you. Adjust, refigure, persevere and in the end you will know whether you win or lose.
I think the biggest problem in the Armstrong movement is an exuberant embracing of BI combined with a "wall to wall" replacement theology exegesis. The business of type/anti-type only helps to support those two.
Anyhow, you are not worrying about anything concerning prophecy because most of it has already been fulfilled, and I am not worrying about prophecy because it is going to happen whether I care or not. Two extremes possibly but with the same outlook - no worries.
Well, maybe just one worry. Looking at my clock, I only have 25 1/2 hours to live according to one COG leader.
ReplyDeleteHoss 5:21 PM said:
Remember some years ago, in a series of sermons David Pack micromanaged (with a few exceptions) every minute detail of the RCG's eventual exodus to the mythical "Place of Safety" in Petra.
One part of the journey's itinerary was flying to Jerusalem, then fleeing to Petra. Of course Petra is in Jordan, and travel to Israel usually has tight controls. Why not fly to Amman? Dave didn't divulge details here.
In Luke in 21: when Jerusalem is surrounded by armies (making travel to Jerusalem even more difficult) those in Judea are to flee... So, my guess was Dave has everyone go to Jerusalem, okay, why? They're now in Judea, so they are instructed to flee. Go to Judea to flee Judea. No, I didn't think that really made sense either.
You have a good memory Hoss.
Dave had this scenario micromanaged even more than this. The key starting point was attaining the 1335 day from Daniel. From there the church would be miraculously taken to Jerusalem on the wings of an eagle. The church then knowing that they flee Jerusalem on the 1290 day of Daniel, would of course see the abomination of desolation on that day and, well, flee. Dave said it was a little over 100 miles to Petra, so the church had to average 3+ miles a day to reach that destination on the 1260 day.
There is plenty more that Dave Pack added to this scenario, but Hoss, me and you need to be working on forgetting about it.
I have to go, I only have 25 hours and 6 minutes to live.
Anonymous (1:09)
ReplyDeleteEr, why should I not be here? You will have to expand on this for it to make sense to me.
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It's easy to reality check whether the tribulation as taught by the ACOGs is true or not by simply asking God.
ReplyDelete
ReplyDeleteAnonymous said...
Will accommodation type be based on a first-come basis, or will the handful of Anglo-Saxon members get hotels while the rest are to fend for themselves in the caves? Can we find accommodation ourselves, or will Bob handle bookings exclusively? Must we pay in advance? Is there a deadline? Can this be paid with Second Tithe? Do we have a choice of accommodation type? Can we change or swap if the rooms don't suit us? When we reach the site, must we register? Is there a registration fee? Can the fee be paid with Second Tithe? Will there be more than one Place of Safety site? Do we have a choice of sites? So many unanswered questions!
December 30, 2020 at 7:23 AM
Anonymous 7:23 AM you are worried about many things, but this one thing you need to know; Bob Theil will be personally purchasing and hanging everyone's curtains in the place of safety. That should greatly ease your concerns.
Anon 909 - Goodie. As another anon wrote, the POS will be the COG's purgatory.
ReplyDeleteI'll bet Bob hasn't worked out any of the basic details needed to accommodate anyone in such a desolate region. The best he can do is book hotels for his FOT sites.
Bob also claims that since he is the only one with "a sure word of prophecy" that only he will know when to flee. Will he announce it on his websites, or will this be a "members only" announcement? Of course we could all go now, beat the rush, and take the best spots now.