It is hard to believe that it has been 35 years since Herbert died.
No one, and I mean no one, could have imagined the swirling cesspool
of splinter groups that have evolved since his death.
He would be shocked beyond belief at what is the present-day Church of God.
Psychotic despots and charlatans have brainwashed followers
into believing their blasphemies.
The ground is littered with broken marriages, broken families,
suicides, horrific child abuse, rapists, stalkers, and even murderers.
Every single one of today's COG leaders are certified liars and false prophets.
EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM!
Am I missing something here? Wasn’t Herbert under investigation from the FBI or CIA at one point? And wasn’t his ‘worldwide church’ officially listed as a cult at one point? And wasn’t Herbert in court at one point?
ReplyDeleteHow is it possible that HWA was never stopped? If he would’ve been stopped, we wouldn’t have this trail of destructive splinter cults nowadays.
It is a profitable franchise.
ReplyDeletePlus it appeals to the sociopaths - get your own group of worshipful followers.
HWA and his AC trained ministers put their trust in oppressive cult 'morality.' Most cults fall apart once their junior-god/god leader dies.
ReplyDeleteBy contrast, a good church teaches it's members biblical principles and lets its members live their own lives.
HWA's real legacy is a tragic one, littered by destruction he caused to families raised in Worldwide, it's offshoots & even his own children including Ted. Going to foreign leaders, showering them with $$$ & gifts, then vaguely mentioning " some unseen hand from someplace" is not preaching the gospel like Paul, Peter or the other "Real" apostles did.
ReplyDeleteAnd let us not forget the STEUBEN CRYSTAL glass Thousands of dollars for glass apples
DeleteHWA "Not bad huh Loma? We're going to be rich!"
ReplyDeleteLoma: "I should have never told you that dream. I told you to call it 'The Present Truth' so we'd have some wiggle room."
Every single one of today's COG leaders are certified liars and false prophets.
ReplyDeleteReally? Where did they get this certification? Can just anyone get one? Is it free, or do you need to pay for it?
"Every single one of today's COG leaders are certified liars and false prophets.
ReplyDeleteEVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM!"
do you know them all?
yeah, I thought not....
you tread into dangerous territory.....
What are you talking about Dave? Are you jealous again that you didn’t get mentioned as ‘the one true prophet’?
DeleteI believe the WCG always was what it is today. It is just that HWA is no longer around to ride herd on Armstrongists. A coyote barks at night and stampedes happen. Another way of saying this is that Armstrongism carries the seeds of its own destruction. It has all been a train wreck in slow motion. Three metaphors is probably enough.
ReplyDeleteI don't think HWA would be surprised at this turn of events. I remember him one time saying that his great fear was that after he died the church would tear apart. He probably stated why he thought that but I don't remember now. I probably didn't pay attention. This happened back in the days when I was a solid apocalyptic Millerite. No doubt I thought his concern was needless - Christ would soon be here.
No matter what your feelings one way or another, he was a man that could bring you to blow the dust off your bible just to prove him wrong. The problem that many people had with him he was right about most of the time. You can say what you want but he was a man that went forth to preach a different gospel than the baloney from most protestant churches. He had his faults and some were grievous, but he who is with out sin pick up the first stone.
ReplyDeleteHahahahahaha!
DeleteYeah I grew up in his church and went to Imperial school and actually met him when I was a kid. Looking back he was a fallible man who made mistakes. But anyone can see that God used him in a powerful way and revealed secrets that no other man knew. He was without a doubt the last prophet God sent to warn Israel.
DeleteAnon at 6:49 AM, the man was a sick,perverted it. I may not be without sin, but I'll be happy to pick up and throw the first, second, and last stone!
DeleteThis coming month also marks the birthday of Garner Ted Armstrong, who would be NINETY ONE on Feb. 9th!
ReplyDeleteI find that interesting as we always viewed him as the "young, fresh, , handsome charismatic, up and coming" leader back in WCG days.
Even the Tedster would be a marginalized , elderly , old man with marginal modern relevance in todays world if he were still alive, (he died way back in 2003, pushing 18 years ago itself.
The WCG "glory era" as some view it, is long gone and fading away. Anyone under the age of 55 has no real memories of either Ted or HWA. What is left is a bunch of wannabes , who imagine themselves as some kind of "passing of the mantle of Armstrongism" leader.
Im reminded of the old "Humpty Dumpty" nursery rhyme...
Herbert and Ted sat on a wall,
Herbert and Ted had a great fall;
All the king's horses and all the king's men
Couldn't put Herbert and Ted together again.
Obsessing over the past Tonto. So 50 year old's from WCG have no memory of Ted. Very funny.
DeleteGrowing up in the church as a child I remember thinking GTA was the coolest guy on the planet.
DeleteAre you sure about that chill. Many kids i knew disliked Ted as he was actually quite harsh on kids.
Delete5.59 AM
ReplyDeleteName one ACOG that is not run along abusive cult lines? It cannot exist since the mother church treated rights as taboo.
It's you who's treading dangerous territory by whitewashing evil.
That applies to you as well 6.49 AM. HWAs "gospel" was the tribulation, with Christ swept under the rug. The issue isn't his personal faults but rather demanding that his members hand over their lives to his lording ministers. For such a monstrous evil I would without hesitation throw the first stone, err, make that a bolder. You're dreaming if you think that he will be in the kingdom.
6:49,
ReplyDeleteRepentance certainly provides cleansing of the sinner. But, grievous sins do not accompany a closeness with God that provides new truths or the working of the Holy Spirit. It is disingenuous to frame criticism of hwa as simply condemnation; it is based on the claims of being the spiritual link between Christ and His people while preaching “new truths” during the extended times of the grievous sins. Forgiveness is available for hwa, but inspiration during a corrupted ministry is not.
Anonymous said that Herbert Armstrong was right most of the time. Not sure your talking about the same man we are. I think you need to do more reading and research!!
ReplyDeleteThirty five years is a long time. If Herbert Armstrong's death has any meaning to those in the movement this far in time I don't know.
ReplyDeleteNine years ago while I was in the RCG, I was asked by a group of people of when I thought Jesus Christ might return. My answer was; if Herbert Armstrong was the true end time apostle and Elijah then it is obvious that the greater COGs are meandering along in the wilderness and won't reach the Kingdom until 2026, which would be 40 years from the time of HWA's death. As I told this group, 40 years is a long time for the chance of death to happen and there is historical words written that indicate there were a lot of carcasses (bodies) strewn about in the wilderness during that time.
If Herbert Armstrong was the voice that cried out in the midst of religious confusion to define the only way to happiness and success, then where is that happiness and success and kingdom in a religious context?
Herbert Armstrong's parting salvo was a three year continuum on the choice of choosing either life or knowledge, with that knowledge having an evil component to it. Thirty five years to grow in the grace and knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ and how is everyone doing in that quest?
With the river Jordan still far in the distance in both time and miles and the trail more hazardous than ever and a deep forest of confusion ever present, we could ask Herbert if clinging to one man and relying on him to define happiness and success and the only way into the Kingdom is a constructive process to choose? For after all, where our carcass ends up depends upon rightly answering that question.
6:49 said "You can say what you want but he was a man that went forth to preach a different gospel than the baloney from most protestant churches"
ReplyDeleteThat might be somewhat true if one feels The Jewish Christian Church is the only right one but the baloney you feel comes from most Protestant Churches comes from the Gentile version under the NT Apostle Paul.
No matter what your feelings one way or another, he was a man that could bring you to blow the dust off your bible just to prove him wrong. The problem that many people had with him he was right about most of the time. You can say what you want but he was a man that went forth to preach a different gospel than the baloney from most protestant churches. He had his faults and some were grievous, but he who is with out sin pick up the first stone.
ReplyDeleteFunny, you could say the same about David Koresh. But none of the HWA-worshippers will admit that Koresh was "right about most of the time" with just a few grievous faults. And none of the Koresh-worshippers will admit that HWA was right about most of the time with just a few grievous faults.
Here's a thought for both the HWA fans and the Koresh fans. Your hero is a lot more like the other guy than you are willing to admit. The truth is, BOTH had faults that were disqualifying, not just grievous. Trying to extract the good from either of them would be like requesting culinary tips from Jeffrey Dahmer.
In a way, Herbert Armstrong's legacy is a very mixed bag. As a man, the evidence (his autobiography, writings and accounts of those who knew him) suggests an opinionated, self-centered, authoritarian, insecure and amoral individual who was incapable of maintaining/sustaining meaningful relationships with many people. From the perspective of material success (notoriety, power, wealth, etc.), I suppose one could say that his accomplishments were impressive - especially when one considers the educational/intellectual and financial deficits of his background. We must, however, also judge him by his moral, theological and spiritual failures which were by almost any objective standard profound.
ReplyDeleteNevertheless, I'm afraid the overall evaluation of Armstrong's legacy must be judged to be very negative in nature, because his failures in the moral/spiritual/theological realm proved to be so very hurtful to so many people. We must never forget that his teachings and pronouncements warped/perverted sexual attitudes; destroyed marriages and families; negatively impacted personal career choices, educational opportunities, health and finances; and promoted racist, misogynistic and other anti-social attitudes among his followers. Finally, although Armstrong did influence Christians to take a closer look at the Bible and the Jewish roots of their faith, he also made a significant contribution to very negative attitudes towards Traditional Christianity and undermined the Christian focus on the founder of the faith and the grace and forgiveness that we have obtained through him.
649 Please tell me what doctrines were wrong in the old WCG? The one big one that was used like a big stick was government .When you had little or no love in implementing it that did create much abuse of power over peoples lives.
ReplyDeleteAnyone who assumes the title of "Pastor General," which is simply another way of calling yourself Chief Shepherd isn't just trying to point people to Jesus Christ. He is presuming a title and description reserved only for Jesus Christ. That in a nutshell is what was wrong with HWA's approach to governance within his own corporate church, and why we still see the effects of this unbalanced and presumptive approach rippling through many of the present day COGs who elevate the memory of this man to the point of idolatry, and use that romanticized and elevated status to justify their own legitimacy or their own authoritarian approach toward others.
ReplyDeleteIn some cases, some of these men have taken that approach to new levels, and have become completely delusional or even dangerous to their own followers. Recent threads about Dave Pack and Bob Thiel come to mind.
So, to those who would ask the question of what doctrines were wrong in the old WCG, the chief among them would be the presumptive and idolatrous position their leader assumed over the brethren, which has led to a completely messed up view of Biblical leadership and what it is and isn't, the misuse of presumed power by those who claim religious authority over others, and abuse of people who are supposed to be viewed as valued and fellow members of the body of Christ, rather than serfs and peasants to be lorded over, manipulated, and controlled.
Concerned Sister
I always wondered if HWA actually believed what he preached was truth or if he knew it was just a load of bull shit.
ReplyDeleteAsk yourself this question: did HWA practice what he preached?
DeleteThere’s the answer to your question if he believed what he preached!
I always wondered if HWA actually believed what he preached was truth or if he knew it was just a load of bull shit.
ReplyDeleteHe ate coffee and donuts on the Day of Atonement. Does that sound like a true believer?
Chill@January 16, 2021 at 1:49 PM and Anon 6:49AM
ReplyDeleteWell said. The man may have many faults but the doctrines he preached are faultless. God used him whether you like it or not. God is the Judge, not you or me.
Faultless doctrines?! You should read up and look up a few things.
DeleteAll HWA did was plucking random doctrines from several religions: Mormon, Jehovahs witnesses, 7th day baptism etc and throwing them on one big pile to be preached as ‘truths’.
If you have the guts for it Anon 6:58, read up on those religions and come back here and tell us what you recognized.
HWA didn’t ‘preach’ anything apart from ‘The Gospel of Money’.
"faultless" Seriously????? If his doctrines were faultless and just like original Christianity why has it been such a failure and destroyed so many lives? Almost every single splinter group out there has revised and changed the doctrines and teachings of HWA.
ReplyDelete(For me, FWIW) Twenty-one (3x7) ‘things’ HWA got wrong:
ReplyDeleteJesus Christ and the Saints will be on the earth during the Millennium
No human will be given any government office during the Millennium
Ezekiel’s vision of the dry bones refers to the Great White Throne Judgment
Last Great Day to be a hundred year period of the Great White Throne Judgment
Judgment has not come to this world (based in 1 Peter 3:18)
David of Ezekiel 34 and 37 refers to the literal David resurrected
House of Israel never means Jews
Crucifixion was on a Wednesday
Resurrection was on a Sabbath
Between the evenings is at the beginning of the day
Sunday is the third day from Thursday
Sabbaths in Matthew 28:1 refers to two sabbaths
First Day of Unleavened Bread is a sabbath
The little horn of Daniel 7 is the papacy/RCC
The papacy completely dominated all the horns to follow
The RCC is the image of the beast
The false prophet is the Antichrist/man of sin
The deadly wound of Rev 13:3 was inflicted by the barbarians in AD 476
The wound was healed by Justinian in AD 554
Elohim is a uniplural word
The preincarnate Jesus Christ was Melchizedek
HWA drinking and eating something on the day of atonement due to advanced age is debatable.
ReplyDeleteBtw, a group that controls how it's members dress is a trait of a totalistic church culture.
The man may have many faults but the doctrines he preached are faultless.
ReplyDeleteGo back and read the Plain Truth issues he published in 1934, then up through the end of WWII.
It is no accident that he left Oregon and started fresh in Pasadena after the war ended. He needed to find new marks who wouldn't know what he had taught for the previous 15 years. But at least those Pasadena recruits were innocent. Today, with the Internet, if you call the man's doctrines faultless then you are either willfully ignorant or hopelessly brainwashed.
Simply refer to his (HWA)'s most common saying, "don't believe me, believe your bibles!" Prove ALL things. Period.
ReplyDelete