Joel Hilliker has an article up for the youth of PCG concerning Pentecost. He says this:
5. With this re-creation, was God doing something quite different? Genesis 1:26-27.
This time, God was re-creating Himself. God made man in His own image and likeness because He wanted more God beings who could exhibit His own righteous character in His Family. He wanted children who could be trusted with that same universe-creating power of the Holy Spirit, never to misuse it—who could expand the joy of His God Family life throughout the universe.To complete such a mighty job requires the mighty power of God!However, power in the wrong hands corrupts. Thus, right use of absolute power requires absolute righteousness! Mankind needed the same character that God Himself has.
6. With this in mind, how did God create man? Genesis 2:7.
God made man mortal. He knew we would have to be put through a training period before we could be trusted with eternal life and supernatural power. This way, if a person chose to rebel, God could just allow him to die and return to the dust of the ground.But make no mistake: God wanted man to become a full-fledged God being! He wanted to give His children all the power He possesses! That is why He created man.
This obsession by some COG leaders to become gods is weird. They look gleefully forward to a time when they can wield their power unencumbered by the laws of society around them. They look forward to whipping into shape the "pagan" world they think will be in charge of. Stoning disobedient children would please them to no end. Imagine their glee in "training" Catholics to do their bidding, or Buddhists or Muslims. The trials of the so-called tribulation will be minor compared to this.
There is no end to the silliness of Armstrongism.
I guess the serpent/Devil didn't plan very well. Shouldn't he have tempted Adam and Eve to eat first of the tree of life, so God couldn't kill them and prevent them from eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil?
ReplyDeleteFrom the post: "But make no mistake: God wanted man to become a full-fledged God being! He wanted to give His children all the power He possesses! That is why He created man."
ReplyDeleteThis is what it states in the Septuagint - the Bible in use among the Hebrews at the time of Christ:
"Be ye my witnesses, and I too am a witness, saith the Lord God (Yahweh), and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know, and believe, and understand that I am he: before me there was no other God (El), and after me there shall be none. I am God (Yahweh); and beside me there is no Saviour." (Isaiah 43:10-11)
We also have from the KJV:
"Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel, and his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts; I am the First and I am the Last; besides me there is no God." (Isaiah 44:6)
The theotic outcome for man is further limited in 2 Peter. Man is only to be a partaker (koinōnos) in the divine nature not a full and essential replica of God.
"Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature . . ." (2 Peter 1:4)
The mistake that HWA visited upon the WCG and Splinterdom is that he misunderstood a phrase in genesis. If you can get an article where HWA explains this, you can watch the error happen. He makes the following phrases mean the same thing when they do not:
Phrase 1: "after their kind"
Phrase 2: "in our image, after our likeness"
The first phrase refers to animals breeding within their speciation. The second refers to the Imago Dei - or how man has some analogous characteristics of God. If God had wanted these concepts to be the same, he would have used the same language in both applications. It is my personal theory that the Armstrongist interpretation that man will be "god as god is god" has led to the diminishment of God in the WCG and its offshoots. Armstrongist do not see God as omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent. They see God as a super human - and it is therefore feasible to them that we might all become exactly like this super human.
Sorry to have written so much. But I do hate to see statements like that published. It is a calumny against God, although I believe it is stated as a matter of simple misunderstanding.
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Anon, May 16, 2021 at 12:34 PM, said:
ReplyDelete"...I guess the serpent/Devil didn't plan very well. Shouldn't he have tempted Adam and Eve to eat first of the tree of life, so God couldn't kill them and prevent them from eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil?..."
******
I suspect that Adam and Eve had eaten of the Tree of Life. Why not? There was no prohibition on doing so. Adam lived long...probably from eating its fruit:
Genesis 5:5 “And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.”
Adam will live again, so time will tell...
John
Say what you like, man is to become God as God is. So says God in the Bible. He is the Word, Truth and Life. Only HWA published this truth worldwide. Satan and carnal man hate this precious truth. If you dismiss this truth , it is like, "How can a foetus can become human as human is?". "After its kind" is the key. How I love the truth. What makes you think when we become God, we will be merciless? We will be perfect just as human Christ was made made perfect through suffering. Is Jesus Christ merciless now?
ReplyDeleteI am simple minded because the truth is simple. Hence, the "simplicity in Christ" applies in this case nicely for me.
God giving resurrected mankind "the same universe creating power" is ridiculous. How many universes are needed? God will not hand on a plate abilities acquired over perhaps trillions of years to others. If people want advanced knowledge and skills, they go to university and similar. They strive for years and decades maturing their skills. For instance, it takes 20,000 hours of practice to acquire orchestra Level music skills. That's the way the world works. The "workman is worthy of his wages" thingy. The church's position parallels a drug pusher who expects thousands of dollars per day for little effort. It's the drug lord dream projected into the bible.
ReplyDeleteMy bible says the bride of Christ will "only" be priests and kings. These extravagant rewards by the ACOGs is pure marketing. They tell this lie in the hope that members will tolerate being eaten alive by their power crazed ministers for the sake of this illusionary reward.
Anonymous (7:51) you wrote "...man is to become God as God is. So says God in the Bible."
ReplyDeleteI don't you're as simple as you think. You have probably heard from the pulpit that you couldn't understand things on your own. So, in reply to your statement "So says God in the Bible", I think you can understand these three words: No He doesn't.
Somebody who did not know what they were talking about told you the malarkey about becoming "god as good is god" and you believed it because you trusted them. It's called "drinking the kool-aid." I bet you can understand that expression. Instead of saying "how I love the truth" you may as well be saying "how I love the kool-aid."
You tell me where it says that you will become "god as god is god" in the Bible and I will explain to you how you have been fed a blatant misinterpretation.
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7.51 PM
ReplyDeleteDear Mr Simple Minded. I have this lovely bridge I want to sell you. It's going really cheap. This is on top of the other bridges that you have bought from your ACOG ministers.
Err, I will also throw in, free of charge, the Eiffel Tower.
Normalized_Eigenvalue_Orthogonal at 8.44PM,
ReplyDeleteI am Anon 7:51
'You tell me where it says that you will become "god as god is god" in the Bible and I will explain to you how you have been fed a blatant misinterpretation.'
Of course there is no direct quote "god as god is god". However, it is implied. Examples: Ps 82:6, John 10:34, Gen 1:27, John 3:3-6 and 1John 3:2.
God reveals this to HWA through his Bible Study. This is signature Armstrongism which is truly unique. Not that he was the only one who knew this precious truth. He proclaimed it worldwide through PT, GN, broadcast. No one else did.
Anonymous (7:31)
ReplyDeleteThe scriptures you cite refer to the fact that we are privileged to be partakers (not full possessors) of the divine nature like John wrote. This is portrayed as sonship or being the offspring of God. Ps 82:6 states this explicitly, "I say, “You are gods, children of the Most High, all of you." These scriptures are tempered by Isaiah 44:6 and 2 Peter 1:4 that I cited above. The angels are also referred to as the "sons of god" but Armstrongists do not hype the idea that angels are "god as god is god."
The term "god as god is god" has a very specific meaning. It means that we will be like god in his essence. The first obvious contradiction to this proposition is that god is uncreated and we are created. And the Armstrongist idea that god is recreating himself logically fails because a being who has always existed cannot create another being who has always existed.
The eternality of god is not the only property that can be analyzed in this way. Uncreated beings are different from created beings and this has been treated extensively in theology and the patristics. It is a unique property of Armstrongism that god is characterized as a created being making the apotheosis in essence of humankind feasible but, alas, exegetically flawed.
God did not reveal this flawed idea to HWA through his Bible Study. HWA came up with this himself because it contradicts Isaiah 44:6 and 2 Peter 1:4. There is a well established understanding that has existed for centuries that describes the actual connection between god an man that is referred to in the Eastern Orthodox religion as Theosis and in Western Christianity as Deification or Divinization. HWA apparently never visited these doctrines before writing up his malformed and hyperbolic version.
I don't mean to be unduly polemical but the Christian movement proclaimed the truth of this theosis while HWA proclaimed a unique, as you correctly pointed out, message of "god as god is god" that most Christians would consider to be blasphemous.
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Remember HWA's question, "Why does God exist?" and his answer "To reproduce Himself". When I was in WCG this didn't sound as ridiculous (to me) as it does now. According to Darwin, creatures exist to reproduce themselves, and the ability to do so is the "Darwinian Fitness Factor". Asking one's DFF was a hoot in biology class.
ReplyDeleteThere are enough verses (Eph 1:5, 3:20, Gal 4:5, etc.) to show we would become adopted children. We will be "God" in the sense that we will be His adopted "sons", just as Jesus was a Jew because Joseph adopted him (that's why Joseph's genealogy is listed).
HWA's idea was that the Holy Spirit "impregnates" the "spirit in man" and if there is no "miscarriage" we become "a born-again God". Or something like that.
I expect disagreement with what I wrote will follow.
Someday I will hold a rod of iron. With that rod I will force unbelievers to believe. I will force the disobedient to obey. If people do not believe or obey, I will chastise them with my rod of iron. I will knock their legs out from under them. I will beat them on the buttocks and the back. I will pull their beard, if they have one. If need be, I will smash in their head or even kill them. Then I will bring them back to life and tell them to try again. Try to believe. Try to obey. And if they cannot I will rinse and repeat the process, just as I will with my snow-white hair. Ultimately, I will force people to be happy. They will have no choice. Be happy or die. Permanently.
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately, your description is the secret wet dream of the ministers and many church members. Which is why God allows Christians to be persecuted, and has historically allowed them to be imprisoned. This mistreatment educates Christians to abhor such behavior and treasure natural right. Which is why John the Baptist should have accepted his prison sentence rather than complain to Christ. God granted him his request by letting him be beheaded.
DeleteFollowing up on NEO's rebuttal to Anon 7:51
ReplyDelete"So says God in the Bible"
Congregation: Show us where!
Pastor: Uhhh... No! (Homer Simpson: In the back somewhere.)
On Gerald Flurry's KOD programs, he would throw in some dogma that was needed to support what he was talking about, adding "And you can prove that, get our booklet..."
If 7:51, 11:09, Flurry, Pack, HWA, and all other stupid COG leaders and ministers will be in the Kingdom, then I'd rather not be in it. The world is shit enough as it is because they're here now. I'd rather be dead for eternity than be with these morons forever. That's worse than hell.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous (11:09)
ReplyDeleteI think your argument is overwrought. It draws on human governments that seek to mold, using violence if need be, behavior based on political goals that serve not the individual but the leadership elite. Since the well being of leadership/aristocracy and the plebian class can be at sharp odds, we then have the world of Big Brother of 1984.
You have applied this concept to Christianity and it is not a good fit. It may fit well the Armstrongist vision of "The World Tomorrow." I am not sure what they are preaching about this nowadays. And it is important to separate the two. The Christian belief is based on the idea of The Good. I have capitalized this because it is a kind of fundamental, a priori Goodness inherent to humans and recognized by humans. It is present in us because of how God created us. We all seek it naturally.
If Adolf Hitler thought that good meant exterminating all Jews, it was that he in some malformed way thought that would be Good for him. It is not that the seeking behavior is wrong or the desire for a better life is wrong but that Adolf's understanding of what is really Good as a goal is wrong. Humans with a modicum of normality do not have to be beaten to understand that it is Good to be kind, for instance. Some humans are psychopathic and have to be healed before they can understand that what they are seeking is The Good.
Your lampoon is based on the presence of conflict engendered by humans seeking spurious goals that harm others. Yet, God wants people to have The Good and people want The Good so there is no conflict here when men are in their right minds - some people have to be rehabilitate. This agreement between God and the humanity he created implies that all men may be saved - it just takes men being freed through the knowledge of the truth.
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Funny 11:09
ReplyDelete