More craziness from the Philadelphia Church of God. It is all about control.
A couple years after my wife died my two sons and I signed up to attend the PCG “family weekend” in GA.
I got permission from my local minister to go and was told to contact the local event coordinator.
I emailed the man, he sent a list of instructions for the campout weekend. I was told to bring a few dozen extra cookies. I had just lost 160 pounds and had lots of health problems so I said that perhaps there would be a more healthy snack I could bring. A couple days later I got a call from my local minister, Aaron Eagle. He got on me for making the remark about cookies not being a healthy snack.
This is what had to happen for me to get that call:
The event coordinator contacted his local minister about my comment.
The local minister had to contact the regional director (Craig Winters) of the southeast.
The regional director of the southeast had to contact the regional director (Cal Culpepper) of the northeast.
The regional director of the northeast had to contact my local minister (Aaron Eagle).
My local minister contacted me about the comment.
WOW, all that over cookies. (On Facebook and Exit Support Network)
Aaron Eagle was kicked out of PCG when he complained about how abusive Cal Culpepper was to members. PCG officials then went on to convince Aarons's wife to divorce him and take their children from him. She was given residence on the cult compound for doing so and is a teacher in their children'ss indoctrination school.
ReplyDeleteHow did she manage to get full custody? Or did he just not fight her?
DeleteAnon 11:08 AM omitted some of the facts. The comment should have read:
ReplyDeleteAfter abusing PCG members for several years, Aaron Eagle was kicked out of PCG when he complained about how abusive Cal Culpepper was to members.
Eagle perpetuated the PCG's culture of abuse, then got offended when he received some of what he and his fellow ministers routinely dished out to PCG members. Are we supposed to feel sorry for the man for losing contact with his children? Eagle himself separated his share of families as part of his iron rule as a PCG minister, so it's only fitting that he finally received for himself what he dished out to others.
Why aren't I surprised about micro managing extending to cookies? Even in Herbs day, every petty decision made by members was scrutinized by the ministers. It's schoolyard bully morality projected into the bible, and is why God is NOT blessing these churches.
ReplyDeleteIt's as if the ACOGs leaders believe that God's laws don't exist, and they can make whatever rules tickles their fancy.
Sounds like STALAG 13 on HOGANS HEROES was ran more efficiently by Klink and Schultz than PCG is! (and a lot more humorously!)
ReplyDeleteWow. Imagine the chaos that would have been caused had you refused to bring a watermelon!
ReplyDeleteTonto: perhaps the way to survive in the pcog is to be like Schultz, ‘ I know nothing’.
ReplyDeleteSee no evil, hear no evil and speak no evil.
Sounds just like that beacon of freedom called North Korea,lol.
ran more efficiently by Klink and Schultz
ReplyDeleteCOGleaders may have an answer for everything, but they know no-thingk!
In Armstrongism, there is no situation or subject matter too small that can't be blown COMPLETELY out of proportion. And be punished by lake of fire eternal damnation to boot!
ReplyDeleteRichard
Translation: Bring your own sweet bread before you board the pcg train heading for Auschwitz.
ReplyDeleteIt is important to remember how theologically involved Splinterists are with the topic of food. What you should eat and not eat is defined in the OT. In addition to that there is a great WCG Talmud that condemns this and that - for instance, sugar. And so Splinterists directly connect what humans consume to sin. The model goes like this. People who eat too much wicked sugar commit the illusory "physical sin." And physical sin will kill you. Although it does not hold the same status as spiritual sin. HWA explained that he would sometimes eat unclean food at various events but it was a non-issue because it was "only" physical sin. His body would just have to get over it.
ReplyDeleteBut you can see how a zealous Armstrongist could get very upset over the topic of food. Implying that cookies are a physical sin would be great effrontery to someone who believed otherwise and held the rank of minister. Splinterist ministers are supposed to know all about what foods should be eaten, why health problems occur and may even correct the medical knowledge of doctors. At least, that is what I witnessed in olden days. Challenging this naturopathic knowledge is a brazen assault on the core of authority in Splinterdom.
For those of us who are now or used to be Armstrongists, this is old hat - a well understood phenomenon - escalation is required. It's not just a tempest in a teapot. It goes to the core theology of Armstrongism. Maybe you have forgotten.
******* Click on my icon for Disclaimer
I knew Aaron Eagle from AC times as he was known as the man who shook more hands than Mr Tkach himself.
ReplyDeleteI agree with NEO 7:53 about core topic, only PCG has warped any topic in a topic about obedience/submission to the ministry.
HWA did NEVER say AT VARIOUS EVENTS, although in the early years he had given prevalence over eating "unclean" over having been "in your face religionist", since he had repented of that but it was quite understandable since during his early conversion period he had been eating unclean for his entire life so far...... quite a difference from NEO's framing.
nck
NCK
ReplyDeleteI am not quite sure what you are trying to say. But I heard HWA talk about attending a banquet during the time that he was "ambassador without portfolio" to foreign nations. They were serving two entrées to guests, alternating the entrées. One was clean and the other was unclean. He was served an unclean entrée. He said rather than create an issue, he just ate it. How's that framing?
******* Click on icon for Disclaimer
Hi NEO
ReplyDeleteJune 2 is correct. (on one of his first trips when they didn't yet have the 10 page protocol list for apostolic visits)
"At various events"...... is framing."
But I agree with the central point about" food" being an expression of repression.
Especially the girls and wives being trained as "cakemakers" and home economics.
Nck
Nck
ReplyDelete"At various events" is reportage. I cannot recall the exact words - not only HWA's words but the words of others - I recall one minister discussing this same topic. It has been too long ago. But my impression was that this encounter with unclean food occurred more than once. My clear understanding, however, was the HWA did not regard this as a fault in any way and was prepared to do it again if need be.
HWA was probably not as much of a Pharisee as his minions made him out to be. My guess is that the minions processed this information by making this unclean repast a heroic sacrifice for the cause. It had that cachet. I know it did not seem to ruffle any feathers among the people that were in my environment at AC/BS.
Once again, we are seriously hampered by not having on record all that Armstrongists leaders said. For instance, I have looked in vain through HWA archives online for HWA's disdainful statement about how God did not really need church members to do the work. God could raise up children of Abraham from the stones. This in a logically inconsistent attempt to get the dashed expendables to send in more money. A novel application of scripture - a kind of angry, deriding Midrash. The only place I can find a similar though less harsh usage is in online Splinterist material but it is not attributed to HWA there.
******* Click on my icon for Disclaimer
Some WCG congregations were known for their collection of healthy food Pharisees. We were once warned of one congregation that were real zealots.
ReplyDeleteThe only thing I heard in my area was after we rented a hall where Pot Luck was okay (clean enough to eat in, and apparently okay with the owner). The "health foodies" (rather than the minister) made a point on what was acceptable and what was not for our Pot Luck contribution.
Once when in desperation over lack of food a group of us were sent to get KFC - this was prior to the "Pot Luck food rules".
Another food fuss was with a fundraiser, the popular item being little cakes that had a high measure of sugar and fat. There was some members who were "high pressure salesmen", and that offended a few - high sugar... high fat... and you're cornering us into buying them on the Sabbath... no thanks...
NEO 6:56
ReplyDeleteYes that "raising up stones to do the work" is in one of the hundreds of HWA sermons online......... followed by "I hope it isn't necessary, I expect it not be necessary. Sure HWA was a master orator and knew all convincing tricks of the trade before marketing and commu nication were sciences or professions even.
I agree with you completely that HWA was not hslf the zealot the racist redneck southern ministers of wcg who dictated the theology made hwa out to be.
Add to that the opening of the British college in the sixties introducing into Atmstrongist theology the class system and racism etc thst quaker Armstrong fid not have in his original "american brand" of christianity.
Nck
Nck
DeleteAs usual, you seem to be whitewashing HWA. He was in the driver's seat of the church. He had the opportunity to address your redneck theology or British class system attitudes. I do not recall him ever challenging these problems in church publications or his sermons. Your Herb was no saint.
Nck has spread more lies about Herbert Armstrong than Armstrong did about himself. The idolatry of HWA is sickening.
ReplyDeleteHa ha! love this comment Anonymous 2:08. Nck is well known to be his own worst enemy.
Delete1:57
ReplyDeleteEveru sermon and every written article by HWA, especially the earlier ones display a different kind of interpretation than the many abuses as reported and enforced through local ministry.
Its really funny to see that the dissident blogs often call hwa a hypocrite or even hold the church people to a certain standard because hwa did not preach what some or perhaps even many suffered.
If NEO doesnt even know the differences in the Field, how would a blind man travelling 300 days per year shielded from contacts know about local theories preached in okeebenokee illinois.
Nck
It wasn't the fact he didn't know whilst flying seven miles up. He didn't care to know. He never had the heart of a Pastor, as many others don't.
DeleteAs supreme leader, pope, apostle, pastor general, or whatever lofty title you want to give Herbie, he was 100% accountable for the abuses of his ministers who were ordained in his name. Before you get your self-righteous ego bruised in a snit, ministers were ordained in HWA's name. The church aways taught that they were a direct line if succession down through the ages from 1st century Christianity. Herbert received that ordination...supposedly...and as a direct result every single minister in the COG was ordained through him. Thats why so many of the splinter cult leaders claim their right to do what they are doing. HWA knew what a sick fuck Rod Meredith was and slapped him on the wrist a couple times and then let him back in to abuse people even more. The abuse was in Pasadena just like it was in the field churches.
ReplyDelete6:25
ReplyDeleteMy point. HWA only took to the hierarchical some 20 years into his ministry. After AC and the British campus opened.
Where does it say "an apostle or any lofty title" is accountable for the behavior of his minions? Or that ministers were appointed in the name of HWA?
It seems you are one of those legalist, pharisee dissidents "I spoke about, who hold up a measure of corporate political religion, like any abuser tyrant, that is non existant from the bible which was engraved" as the foundation of knowledge"!
You do not seem to understand that even the existance of hwa's ministry is a sign of liberal american democratic values, that were battled when Europe shut the pirate radio stations down and have people adhere to traditional religion rather than "break away" or self cooked ideas in the American tradition.
Nck
Nck
DeleteConsider Herbs sins of omission. Where were rights in any of his writings or speeches? Did he ever mention assertiveness? Did he ever mention "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" or similar? No! Instead it was non stop obey, yield, surrender, submit, implying that the ministers even have the right to "possess" members if warrantied. Prior to his death his mantra was "government is everything." It's what you would expect from a commie rather than a believer in the bill of rights.
You demean yourself by coming to this blog and behaving like one of Herbs 'useful idiots.'
PS, has anyone ever heard sermons, sermonettes mentioning the bill of rights and where they are mentioned in the bible? Of course not since in Armstrong-land only the ministers have rights. The members have no rights what so ever. It's psycho-bully morality with a thick layer of lipstick.
Bricket Wood was actually perceived by Herbert, Loma and heir apparent son as AC European camp. Britain was never first choice nck.
Delete3:07
ReplyDeleteGood points all!
I agree. I never let myself be bullied by or submitted to men. If in doubt I looked at HWAs example. It was known he had a doctor, so I never had a problem with that. I in fact looked up why he got that doctor honoris juris and made a lifetime study out of constitutional law even into law school. Indeed government is everything if you like me hsmave experienced nations without any in total anarchy. Perhaps you read about it but never saw the corpses floating in the rivers.
At SEP camp the pursuit of happiness was taught.
I agree though. WCG must have been hell for those with parents lacking basic common sense and morality. This was heavily implied rather than actively taught.
I fondly think about that philipino former marine at camp in scotland. He said I have prepared something for you guys that will help you through life as I know not all of you will remain in the Church. Well dang he was right.
Nck
Nonsense
Delete12:54
DeleteThe only way to establish tbe legitimacy of your claim is to reveal what church areas from what affiliations you are acquainted with over what period of time. Otherwise your just a parrot or one trick/word pony!
Nck
The church morality was heavily implied by the way ministers lorded it over the members. In personal disputes, the ministers typically sided with the guilt party since God's laws were, and still are viewed as cruel and unjust. The church paid lip service to the ten commandments, gave Kenneth Copeland moral mush sermons, and conveyed its true beliefs by the way they meddled in members lives. That many left such a church is to be expected.
DeleteIt was very dishonest of the church to blame Joe Tkach for the natural negative consequences.