Someone made a comment on here recently about how COG leaders have set themselves up as intermediaries between their members and the god they claim to follow.
Most of them, but not all, will bellow that they do no such thing, but in actuality they are.
All of them have made the claim that they are the one true church carrying on in the footsteps of Herbert Armstrong. As leaders of the one true church, they have deliberately maligned all other COG's and delegated them into lesser than status or actual Laodiceans.
They all claim exclusive knowledge through dreams, visions, nightmares, or whatever other entities they channel their "knowledge" that comes to them through.
Dave Pack has been preaching a 300+ sermon series on the visions and dreams he has that lead him to interpret scripture to prove his creature he calls "jesus" will be returning three times and that its imminent return is always days or weeks away. He bellows that no other church has this knowledge and no other church has access to God and his "christ" unless they are members of the Restored Church of God.
Bob Thiel does this by claiming his legitimacy through dreams and visions he claims he has had along with a couple other mentally unstable people in the Australasia regions of the world. Never have we seen a more pompous self-indulgent leader than we have in Bob. He has the exclusive doctrines and teachings that only he understands and repeats ad museum that only he has the right interpretations to scripture. His endless diatribes that all COG members need to recognize him and his work, and join in that work, in order to know the "correct" time to flee to Petra/Pella or some other hellhole he expects his followers to go to are beyond pale. No one knows the right time to flee except him. Therefore your salvation is dependant upon his interpretations, dreams, visions, and nightmares.
Gerald Flurry has set himself up as King of the Church of God because he has now in his possession a dirty old rock from the hills of Oregan that he claims his creature he calls "jesus" will return and sit upon. No other COG out there has this revealed knowledge and therefore are Laodiceans and are cut off from God. Only through Flurry can salvation be attained.
UCG, LCG, COGWA, CGI, and many of the other minor COG groups also claim that they are the only ones with the real truth. Most of them no longer state that publicly in order to appear more "loving" towards other COG members, but corner a diehard evangelist or minister and they will tell you that their group is the only COG doing the work and that they are the correct path to salvation.
COG members have been duped for so long by this kind of reasoning that they have turned into gullible sheep who sit there week after week believing that their leader is the right, correct, and one true leader of the end time COG, and because of that, their salvation is in his hands. Most will not admit that until you push them as to why they have not left for another group or left the COG entirely. They have been frightened into following a bunch of spiritual frauds that only care for the members as long as they give money.
COG members believe this because they have never heard that much about Jesus preached. Oh sure, they will talk about the veil in the temple being torn in half, and in the next breathe tell you that every damn law in the old covenant is still in force today, all except for the ones they conveniently don't want to follow and they always have an excuse as to why they don't. The new covenant is always shoved to the rear burner in order to promote the law and other nonessentials.
Ask most Christians today who their intermediary is and they will name Jesus and the work accomplished and finished on the cross. Most COG members cannot do that. They need the revelations from their leaders, their writings, and visions to tell them what to believe.
There is only one intermediary and it is NOT Bob Thiel, Dave Pack, Gerald Flurry, or ANY of the other COG leaders or corporations. Bob, Gerald, Dave, and the others are not necessary for anyone's salvation and no one will ever attain it through them. It is an impossibility.
When I left LCG it was around the time Bob Thiel thought he was Rod Meredith's muse. Bob acted like his shit did not stink around us all. That is the reason LCG members and ex-members refuse to follow this stinking pile of horse shit. He is no prophet or even a real COG leader. He is a certified liar and a false prophet deliberately working to deceive as many people as he can into believing his damnable lies. Shame on his 300 or so white COG members who followed him. They know deep down he is a liar and a fraud. His African followers are being conned by their overlords and evangelists that tell them what to think. It is sickening seeing them waste their lives on the teachings of such a degenerate false prophet.
ReplyDeleteI always have wondered what is the need down deep that these guys must have to claim such nonsense about themselves. Who deliberately looks for this kind of affirmation of their importance or perceived abilities? It's some kind of mental illness or personality disorder. Being mocked, scorned, criticized and challenged is going to be your lot if you do this and should come as no surprise or "persecution". It's like Homer Simpson once said evidently, "OK, I'm tired of you all holding me back. I'm going to clown school!"
ReplyDeleteClown School seems to be the current state of affairs in the COG.
ReplyDeleteExpect a sermon from Booby about this very soon!
ReplyDeleteWhy do COG leaders set themselves up as our intermediaries?
ReplyDeleteC O N T R O L.
Even Stalin would be proud of their cunning and deceitfulness and the fear they can install.
Human nature being as it is these individuals will always find an audience .
They set themselves up as intermediaries because they have been failures in the rest of their life. When people do not acknowledge them as great leaders they think they are they lash out on their own looking for that recognition. They need that validation they get from a few adoring followers while the rest of the COG laughs at them.
ReplyDeleteWhy is this entire post written from the angle of what the Ministry have long perceived about the members....
ReplyDelete"COG members have been duped for so long by this kind of reasoning that they have turned into gullible sheep who sit there week after week believing that their leader is ...."
Are you sure about that, author of this post?
Because this is not how it is amongst the boots on the ground membership. And I may add hasn't been for quite a few years.
To my knowledge, CGI has never claimed to be the only church. They've always said they are a part of the church, as are other groups. They even go so far as setting up co-0p sabbath services and feast sites with other organizations.
ReplyDeleteOf course CGI hasn't 5:35. Everyone who's had anything to do with the CGI branch knows that, but the writers on here clearly don't.
DeleteWhat does that tell you? Think about it. As ron dart used to teach think outside of the box.
The WWCG under Joe Tkach taught its members that they can attend any "Christian church" that they please, no matter its doctrines. This, like many of their other policies, was designed to destroy its members faith.
DeleteOops, I confused CGI with GCI.
DeleteAs NO2HWA suggested in his remarks, this pathology originates in their failure to acknowledge Jesus Christ as the ONLY intermediary necessary between man and God. An important corollary to this foundational flaw is their failure to acknowledge that the Holy Spirit works in and through EVERY Christian. They have erroneously imagined in the deceitfulness of their own hearts that the Holy Spirit's work on their brain is unique - that it has revealed "special" truths to them to dispense to the rest of us. It just doesn't work that way! Moreover, since they have fallen into these foundational traps, I think we are justified in wondering whether or not these individuals even have God's Holy Spirit!
ReplyDeleteAnon 843: Would you believe C O N T R O L ends up in K A O S?
ReplyDeleteSorry about that!
The "correct" time to flee
ReplyDeleteby Einnoc Otnot
Come with ME!
O Come with ME!
And you shall see
When WE must flee!
Then WE will flee
And WE shall be
Where WE will see
Fulfilment of MY prophecy!
[Maybe, maybe,
Yes, possibly,
MY mournful plea
Is just follow ME!]
And I thought we were supposed to follow Christ not these self appointed buffoons. As whacky as some of the cog leaders Are they any worse than the ones such as Cogwa that never say a word about prophecy. They are like letting the water boil their congregations slowly and never
ReplyDeletesay a word about what's coming. But were preaching love and Christian living which is great and should be done. There is no joy in mud Ville, where their is no holy spirit. The leadership's light has gone out. And why is that? Well the lamp needs oil and they have none.
When did Jesus decree 7:03 to sit in judgment of thousands of people? Gibly declaring an entire organisation as having no oil in their lamps. I shudder at 7:03 utterances.
DeleteThis is in no way an endorsement for COG leadership, past or present. But the ministry does have a responsibility (as do members) and will be held accountable, this I'm sure drives certain words said and actions taken. How they go about this is the issue, and what is in their heart and mind. But, the role itself cannot be simply dismissed.
ReplyDeleteHeb. 13:17 (NLT) Obey your spiritual leaders, and do what they say. Their work is to watch over your souls, and they are accountable to God. Give them reason to do this with joy and not with sorrow. That would certainly not be for your benefit.
Expositor’s Bible Commentary (Abridged Edition: New Testament)
17 The readers must obey their leaders. In v.7 the leaders were men who had died. Here, however, those alive and currently in positions of authority are meant. The reason for their submission is that the leaders “keep watch” (lit., “keep oneself awake”; GK 70). The imagery is of the leaders keeping awake at nights in their concern for their people. “Over you” translates “for your souls [GK 6034].” This word may be simply a periphrasis for “you,” but it seems preferable to see it as a reference to one’s spiritual life and spiritual well-being. The leaders are concerned for the deep needs of their people, not simply for what lies on the surface, because they must render “account.” The writer pleads with the readers to act in such a way that keeping watch will be a thing of joy for the leaders (cf. Php 2:16; 1Th 2:20; 3Jn 4). The alternative is for them to do it as “a burden” (lit., “with groaning”; GK 5100), which would be “of no advantage” for the readers.
Life Application New Testament Commentary
13:17 Members in the church have the responsibility to obey their spiritual leaders. While 13:7 referred to past leaders who had died, this verse refers to the present leaders in the various congregations. Wise and God-honoring leaders watch over the church and have the best in mind for their followers. These leaders are concerned for the deepest needs of those in their fellowship. These leaders also take on great responsibility to watch over the souls of those in their congregations. They are accountable to God. Because of this grave responsibility, cooperative followers can greatly ease the burden of leadership. Too many believers create problems and tension for their leaders through endless complaints and interpersonal conflicts. How welcome would cheerfulness, helpfulness, and loyalty be to your leaders!
Control is based on NEED.
ReplyDeleteThus, whether deliberate or not, so-called leaders in all areas of life, (business, political, social, school, religion, etc) subconsciously know this and create universes that diminish independence, and self reliance , and encourage the continuance of dysfunction or dependancy.
Rare is the person like John the Baptist, who said, "He must become greater and greater, and I must become less and less."
Create being a key word Tonto. Not inspired or led by God. No ideas or creative thought. Desiring to keep others lives in stupor. Marriage not allowed unless arranged. Herds of childless individuals that are easier to control. Jealous of the unknown possible. Spending endless hours on achieving nothing that means anything
DeleteThe blind leading the blind.
Armstrongists and Protestants do not have a priesthood. They instead recognize the High Priesthood of Christ as rendering a human priesthood superfluous. Armstrongist ministers and ministers from some of the more autocratic Christian denominations do maintain an iron grasp on Biblical, theological and creedal knowledge. (Sometimes I think the autocrats would really like to deny access to the Bible but they don't have the chutzpah ... yet.) Some denominations are more accommodating. You can hold Universalist beliefs, for instance, in the Methodist Church, Eastern Orthodox Church and the Disciples of Christ church without anyone giving you guff. And, of course, we all have our own "deep theology" anyway.
ReplyDeleteI believe Christ does mediate essential knowledge to the Christian church through its ministry. For instance, the Book of Revelation came from Christ via angel to John of Patmos and from there to the rest of the ekklesia. But knowledge is not solely owned by the ministry. Paul wrote:
"Wherefore I also . . . cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers; That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him . . ."
Paul did not pray that God would increase him personally in knowledge so he might mediate it then to the ekklesia - the priesthood of all believers. Instead, he prayed for direct enlightenment from God for each Christian. In the world of denominationalism this sounds like it surely must be anarchy. But that is a denial of the ministry of the Holy Spirit. And if Paul's words sound strange to you and stringent, centralized control of knowledge by the ministry and the denial of the personhood of the Holy Spirit and his ministry sound familiar, you just might be a Splinterist.
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My experience with such people is that they desire what everyone else wants. Things like power, status, recognition, wealth etc. Christ didn't condemn such desires. When Peter said that they had forsaken all to follow Him, he pointed out their present and future rewards for doing so. Christ didn't condemn some of His disciples for desiring the chief seat in the kingdom, but pointed out that the chief seat belongs to the chief giver. The bottom line is that people must earn what they desire.
ReplyDeleteThese ACOG leaders by contrast are trying to fulfil their desires through fraud. They are lying thieves.
7:43 So, who are and who appointed these leaders you are referring to? That is at least one question.
ReplyDeleteWhat are the who what and why of Hebrews? It was a letter specifically written to its audience. It was written to the Hebrews who were apparently tending toward unbelief in large part because of the Jews thereabout that did not accept Jesus as Messiah.
Were the leaders known by the author (maybe barnabas) of Hebrews? Probably. And, because the author of Hebrews knows the leaders and that they are teaching Jesus, then with confidence he can say that those having unbelief should listen and submit to the teaching of the leaders.
There are of course lessons we too should draw from this letter written to the Hebrews but it does not mean we are to listen to every Tom, Dick, and Harry that claims authority over us. It seems many in the book of Hebrews are new to the faith and are not firm in their faith. Thus they should submit to the spiritual leaders known by the author of Hebrews as teachers who can help their faith and look over them as their faith becomes firm.
"Thus they should submit to the spiritual leaders...?"
DeleteWhat exactly does that mean? Are you aware that ministers are not to lord it over members faith?
Are you a minister?
Definitely not a minister. Maybe should have been more careful with my last sentence. I am basically just saying that heb. 13:17 is specific. The writer of Hebrews knows the situation, knows the new converts, and knows the elders/leaders. The writer of Hebrews knowing the situation is giving practical instruction/advice. In a time of doubt for a new believer, an established Crhistian leader (known by the writer as wise) can give practical advice that a new believer would do well to accept.
DeleteThe rest of my post should make it clear that context matters. This is not supportive of the practices of the Cog ministers.
"Clown School"
ReplyDeleteCouldn't help it! Not just a school!
HWA just may have started "THE WORK" on Radio KAOS!
ReplyDelete
ReplyDeleteAnonymous at 5:35 AM said...“To my knowledge, CGI has never claimed to be the only church. They've always said they are a part of the church, as are other groups. They even go so far as setting up co-0p sabbath services and feast sites with other organizations.”
When Garner Ted Armstrong rebelled against his own father Herbert W. Armstrong, he got put out of the Worldwide Church of God.
GTA then went on to found his own little CGI rebel group, and later the even smaller ICG rebel group, to support his playboy lifestyle. These tiny little rebel groups were never part of the true WCG church. They were little rebel groups full of wicked people that wanted to destroy the true WCG church that they were no longer a part of.
The CGI and ICG have always wanted to fool people into thinking that they are true churches too, but they are not. They are little rebel groups that came out of the true WCG church and are no longer a part of it. They are just another way to waste your time, energy, and money.
Trying to associate with other tiny little rebel groups will not make any of these tiny little rebel groups true churches. Their deceitfulness is in vain and will fool only their own selves.
10:08
DeleteOnly small minded folk who languished in WCG far too long, until the dark era of 90's, come out with such predicted hatred.
Oh to be so holy as thou. What you really mean is: CGI stand over there in the corner for thy is more holy than thou. Whaatcha mean in thy heart.
ReplyDelete“Why Do COG Leaders Set Themselves Up As Our Intermediaries?”
Maybe so they can intercept the money that the little sheeple think they are giving to God.
Does the CCOG Hymnal contain an updated version of that old SDA favorite, "When We All Get to Petra"?
ReplyDelete"To my knowledge, CGI has never claimed to be the only church."
ReplyDeleteAsk Herr Watson what he thinks about that. He and the CGI are the path to salvation. If they are not then why do they exist?
"When did Jesus decree 7:03 to sit in judgment of thousands of people? Gibly declaring an entire organisation as having no oil in their lamps. I shudder at 7:03 utterances."
ReplyDelete7:03 is spot on. There is no oil in the COG lamps because they do not follow Christ. They look to the law as their salvation. Christ is nothing more than an obstacle in their way of doing works to impress God.
Tell us, what good has come out of the COG movement in the last few years?
I'm 7:03 and the way you twisted what I wrote surely means you are not a member.
DeleteYou ask what GOOD has come our of the COG movement in the last few years ? Well one thing for sure that is not GOOD is your twisted strawman iritating habit.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous at 10:27 AM said...“Does the CCOG Hymnal contain an updated version of that old SDA favorite, 'When We All Get to Petra'?”
Good question!
The churches of the world look forward to going to heaven.
The so-called COG's too often seem to live in fear and look forward to hiding out in caves and other holes in the ground.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous at 10:27 AM said...“Does the CCOG Hymnal contain an updated version of that old SDA favorite, 'When We All Get to Petra'?”
Decades ago, when lots of people were thinking about making bomb shelters to try to save their hydes from a possible Russian nuclear attack, the topic of building a bomb shelter came up at one SDA college. One of the old SDAs got up and said that he was not interested in going down into a hole in the ground. He said he wanted to go up into the clouds.
"Thus they should submit to the spiritual leaders...?"
ReplyDeleteCan you give me the name of any minister I am supposed to submit to?
And no, there is not a minister anywhere you are “supposed to submit to”?
DeleteThere are those outside the Cogs that might give you teachings you should heed, but Christ is the Head of each of His own.
Hiding that God directly leads every Christian is the same sin that Moses committed when he pointed to himself rather than God.
ReplyDeleteMinisters should consider that Gods punishment of not allowing Moses entry to the promised land is a warning to them, not ordinary Christians.
Anon June10 @12pm,
ReplyDeleteI do not wish to hijack this thread ... I'm just sharing my opinion on Moses' sin ...
Moses' sin:
Num 20:12 Then YHVH spoke to Moses and Aaron, “Because you did not believe Me, to hallow Me in the eyes of the children of Israel,..."
What was YHVH's instruction:
Num 20:7-8 Then YHVH spoke to Moses, saying, “Take the rod; you and your brother Aaron gather the congregation together. Speak to the rock before their eyes, and it will yield its water;..."
Moses was asked to bring the rod BUT not use it. This is in contrast to what happened decades earlier in Ex 17:1-7 (similar sounding place but, I believe, different place).
Ex 17:6 "Behold, I will stand before you there on the rock in Horeb; and you shall strike the rock, and water will come out of it, that the people may drink.” And Moses did so in the sight of the elders of Israel.
How can his sin be 'pointing to himself' when either using the rod or speaking he will be seen by the people? Moses is known for his meekness (Num 12:3) and speech impediment (Ex 6:30). When it's time for him to "speak to the rock before their eyes" (Num 20:8), probably, his speech problem got the better of him and he decided to strike the rod (twice, out of frustration with himself and/or anger with the people).
The people probably had been focusing on the rod and thinking it had magical powers.
It is now clear that Jesus was invented by the Sanhedrin in order to create a pacifist religion (based on the Essenes) that would destroy Rome. It worked. No one faker, like Paul, could have pulled it off alone. If you believe the silliness in the Bible, the Sanhedrin is your intermediary.
ReplyDeleteWhy did the face of Moses shine like the sun? Because he was a sun-God. That is where Jews really got their religion. By the way, YHVH originally had a female consort. She was dropped after a while.
ReplyDelete12.18 PM
ReplyDeleteYou are way off base. In Numbers 20:10 "listen here you rebels, must WE bring you water from this rock?" So it's both Aaron and Moses, with Aaron being the mouthpiece. Also in Numbers 20:24 "..Aaron will be gathered to his people ...because you BOTH rebelled against my command.." Aaron could have refused to pass on Moses's words or complained to Moses about the wording, but he did not.
So again the problem was that God was pushed aside with a "WE." Ministers do this habitually by pointing to some church leader, or with the "obey, yield, surrender, submit" to the ministry mantra. Most of the time when ministers point to God or Christ, it's only to give themselves credibility or in the hope that they will be viewed as stand-ins for God.
5:20 the is no 12:18.
DeleteIn context of Hebrews 13:17, "Obey your leaders and submit to them", Norman Edwards has an interesting take on it,
ReplyDelete"Note that the Greek peitho (“obey”) is usually translated “persuade” or “trust”—it contains the idea of becoming friends, cooperating. This word is not as strong as the Greek peitharcheo, used for obeying the Eternal or kings (Acts 5:29; Tit 3:1), which was not used here. The Greek hupeiko, (“submit”) is not a term of absolute submission, but one of peaceful cooperation. Finally, the Greek Proistemi (“over you”) is sometimes translated “manage” or “devote oneself” in modern translations. It is used for managing one’s family. (See Rom 12:8; 1 Timothy; 3:4,5,12,17; Tit 3:8,14 for all other uses)." How Does the Eternal Govern Through Humans? page 41.
Actually Edwards goes through 15 foundational rules in the translation of the KJV/NKJV that King James gave. It is interesting how much of the translation was based on trying to maintain the old order and unite people under James' leadership. He certainly had a vested interest in having people "obey" and "submit"--if he could propagate this in a commonly read Bible, it would actually consolidate his authority.
According to one article, the proper translation of Hebrew 13:17 is "be persuaded by the example of your leaders." The King James translation of Hebrew 13:17 is a deliberate mis translation to appease King James desire to have power over the church.
DeleteThose in power typically distort the morals and rig the laws of the land to benefit themselves. Which is why ministers of religion can never be trusted.
ReplyDeleteAnon June10 @5:20pm said, Aaron could have refused to pass on Moses's words or complained to Moses about the wording, but he did not.
So, you believe that Aaron rebelled against God by repeating Moses' words and not censuring him. What was Aaron's function?
Ex 4:14-16 So the anger of YHVH was kindled against Moses, and He said: “Is not Aaron the Levite your brother? I know that he can speak well. And look, he is also coming out to meet you. When he sees you, he will be glad in his heart. Now you shall speak to him and put the words in his mouth. And I will be with your mouth and with his mouth, and I will teach you what you shall do. So he shall be your spokesman to the people. And he himself shall be as a mouth for you, and you shall be to him as God.
Anon, do you believe that Aaron, as a 'mouthpiece', should have had a mind of his own and analyzed Moses' words before repeating them to the people? Also, was he privy to what YHVH was speaking to Moses before he repeats Moses' words to the people?
Both Moses and Aaron rebelled against YHVH's command/word (Num 20:24, Hebrew peh meaning mouth). What exactly were the words given by YHVH that they disobeyed?
Num 20:6-8 So Moses and Aaron went from the presence of the assembly to the door of the tabernacle of meeting, and they fell on their faces. And the glory of YHVH appeared to THEM. Then YHVH spoke to Moses, saying, “TAKE THE ROD; you and your brother Aaron gather the congregation together. SPEAK TO THE ROCK BEFORE THEIR EYES, and it will yield its water;..."
Aaron was fully aware that no striking of the rock was to happen, unlike what happened in Ex 17:1-7. Although, he had no inkling that Moses' words ("Hear now, you rebels! Must we bring water for you out of this rock?") would lead to striking, he saw Moses raised his hands (Num 20:11), most likely in a manner consistent of a person about to swing what was in his hands (rod). This is the part where Aaron should have intervened and prevented Moses from striking the rock.
Striking the rock went against YHVH's clear instruction of just speaking to the rock. They were told to bring the rod, presumably, to show the people that the rod, by itself, has no power. That it's YHVH who would cause the water to come out.
Num 20:12 Then YHVH spoke to Moses and Aaron, “Because you did not believe/trust Me, to hallow Me in the eyes of the children of Israel,..."
In Hebrew, the word believe or trust is action oriented. Moses, and Aaron, failed to do what YHVH instructed - Speak to the rock (and, by extension, do not strike the rock). Thus, they did not believe/trust God. If they had obeyed Him, it would have shown the people that the real power responsible was YHVH. Thereby hallowing Him in the eyes of the people.
The Bronze Serpent is an example of an object commanded by God to be made that later became an object of idolatry.
2 Kings 18:4-5 He removed the high places and broke the sacred pillars, cut down the wooden image and broke in pieces the bronze serpent that Moses had made; for until those days the children of Israel burned incense to it, and called it Nehushtan. He trusted in YHVH God of Israel ... (see Num 21:4-9)
Anon June10 @5:20p,
ReplyDeleteI forgot to ask - Was Moses to speak to the rock through Aaron?
Moses was instructed to speak to the rock before the eyes of the people. Aaron was his spokesman to the people (Ex 4:16). But even to the rock? Did Aaron function as a spokesman when Moses was just speaking to an individual Israelite, or just a handful of Israelites?
I believe that Moses, himself, was the one who was instructed to do the actual speaking to the rock.
I do not believe that Aaron had the right to physically stop Moses from striking the rock. Especially since Moses was to be as God to Aaron. It says God appeared to both of them and said to them "take the rod, you and your brother.." It doesn't make sense that Moses was supposed to do the speaking. Why mention Aaron at all if that was meant to be the case? Why punish Aaron with death for something that Moses did?
DeleteThe are few spiritual leaders nowadays to count on one half of one hand. If that.
ReplyDeleteIt is clear that God throughout history, specifically in scripture, neither lives in the past or future when it comes to spiritual leaders or the spiritual state of His people.
But living in the past and behaving as if already accepted by God, into the Kingdom of God now, has destroyed any here and now 2021 accountability.
The Covid 19 Pandemic in 2020 showed the gross state of the Spiritual health of many well known names in COG groups big and small. The pandemic took them all unawares. Totally by surprise. Even right up to the last minute. Some more honest than others to admit it. But took unaware no doubt.
Their spiritual claims that they are experts "to know God" to "walk with God" "follow me as I follow God" is laid bare as a lie.
In 2021 Christians are more likely to discover their "spiritual leaders" to be frauds masquerading as believer's, closet athiests and devoid of any Godly traits at all. To be bullies and hate filled. To create nothing but trouble, and always have targets in their cross-hairs hated by their congregations and cronies. To have lips that love to speak a lie. To have no morals and no fear of doing evil.
That is the present spiritual state of the 2021 leaders within ACOG. Any leader who is not like that, is an rare exception to the rule.
That is the real reason why ACOG do not grow.
I think most ACOGs leaders are like demons. They believe that God exists, but as you said, are devoid of Godly traits.
DeleteNot demons 841.
DeleteSome thoughts on the topic:
ReplyDeletehttps://godcannotbecontained.blogspot.com/2021/06/the-failure-of-christian-leadership.html
ReplyDeleteAnon June11 @3:01am wrote, It says God appeared to both of them and said to them "take the rod, you and your brother.."
Num 20:6b-8a And the glory of YHVH appeared to THEM. Then YHVH SPOKE TO MOSES, saying, “Take the rod; you and your brother Aaron gather the congregation together. speak to the rock before their eyes, ...
Although YHVH appeared to both of them, He was only speaking to Moses. My opinion is that Aaron was hearing the words as well.
Why mention Aaron? He was to help Moses gather the congregation.
Num 20:10. And Moses and Aaron gathered the assembly together before the rock;
Ex 4:16. So he shall be your spokesman to the people. And he himself shall be as a mouth for you, and you shall be to him as God.
Moses was to be to Aaron as God insofar as what to convey to the people (see also Ex 7:1). Was Moses to be worshipped? No.
Aaron had the right to physically stop Moses from disobeying YHVH (striking the rock). What he was not allowed to do was speak against Moses (see Num 12:1-9).
Num 20:12a Then YHVH SPOKE TO MOSES AND AARON, “Because you did not believe Me, ..."
He was aware of what YHVH instructed Moses. He was guilty as well because he did not stop Moses, which amounted to disobeying the words of YHVH. Both of them did not enter the Promised Land. Both of them died, though not at the same time.
Aarons role was not to stop Moses from sinning. Humans are made in God's image with the inherent ability to "choose life or choose death." Over and over in the OT God condemned Israel for not following His laws, heeding His voice, obeying His instructions, and punishing them accordingly. But He NEVER with all His awesome power stopped them from sinning. God cannot because it is in violation of being made in God's mental image.
DeleteSince you reject this fundamental truth, you must be a minister or former minister. Ministers think such behavior acceptable because of their power lust, and besides, it has Herbs approval. And it's why you are "crazy making" to nullify Gods warning to these ministers.
Repeating, putting themselves in the place of God will result in the loss of their eternal lives.
Being at war with Gods warnings, and defending a toxic church culture is dangerous to ones wellbeing.
Anon June11 @3:05pm wrote, Aarons role was not to stop Moses from sinning.
ReplyDeleteOther roles of priests:
Mal 2:6-7 The law of truth was in his mouth, and injustice was not found on his lips. He walked with Me in peace and equity, AND TURNED MANY AWAY FROM INIQUITY.
Eze 44:23-24. “And they shall teach My people the difference between the holy and the unholy, and cause them to discern between the unclean and the clean. In controversy (dispute/strife) THEY SHALL STAND AS JUDGES, and JUDGE IT ACCORDING TO MY JUDGMENTS. They shall keep My laws and My statutes in all My appointed meetings, and they shall hallow My Sabbaths.
Deu 33:10a They shall teach Jacob Your judgments, and Israel Your torah (direction/instruction/law, Strong's H8451).
Anon wrote, Since you reject this fundamental truth, you must be a minister or former minister.
Nope. I was not even a deacon.
... And it's why you are "crazy making" to nullify Gods warning to these ministers.
WHAT?!?!?!?!?!?!?
Please check each of my posts - June 10, 2021 at 2:18 PM; June 10, 2021 at 9:21 PM; June 10, 2021 at 10:31 PM; June 11, 2021 at 11:26 AM.
Where did I nullify God's warning? All my posts were about my objection to the comment that Moses' sin was 'pointing to himself'. He broke YHVH's instruction to speak to the rock. It had nothing to do with 'pointing to himself' because either he used the rod or just speak to the rock, he would be seen by the congregation. I think one of the issues was the likely dependence of the congregation, including Moses, on the rod.
No where in the bible from cover to cover has God ever make a decision for another being. He cannot since it is murder. So Aaron would have been out of order to stop Moses from sinning. This is very different to your example of priests teaching Gods laws and judges punishing crime.
ReplyDeleteMoney one cannot spend is worthless, as is food one cannot eat, and cloths one cannot wear etc. Like wise, ministers lording it over members nullifies the consequence of worshipping God. This amounts to the ministers being de facto worshipped, and being in place of God. God will not allow these ministers into His kingdom.
Keep taking the pills 12:36 they might kick in soon.
Delete3.24 AM
DeleteAs soon as I started attending services in the 1970s, it became spparant that HWAs church was an alternate reality. Church culture was one of ministers being viewed as gods while ordinary members were viewed and treated as literal children.
Treating adults as children is still the case in the splinters. It's stench in God's nostrils.
As is typically the case in abusive relationships, it's only after leaving the church that its victims can see through the mind twisting brainwashing.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous at 1:53 PM said...“10:08 Only small minded folk who languished in WCG far too long, until the dark era of 90's, come out with such predicted hatred. Oh to be so holy as thou. What you really mean is: CGI stand over there in the corner for thy is more holy than thou. Whaatcha mean in thy heart.”
Why would you want anyone to have their life wasted by GTA's rotten little rebel cults? Are you that evil-minded? Do you have a bad attitude?
Hardly any as full of hatred and lousy attitude as you 11:05. Scary hatred indeed.
DeleteAnon June 12 @12:36AM wrote, This is very different to your example of priests teaching Gods laws and judges punishing crime.
ReplyDeleteLet me explain the passages I've given above (Mal 2:6-7; Eze 44:23-24; Deu 33:10a) ...
Priests teach and uphold the torah. (Deu 33:10)
The Hebrew word torah is often translated law but its literal meaning is instructions and directions (Strong's H8451). Any instruction or direction from God is considered law. The instruction/law 'speak to the rock' was directed only to Moses during that time, at that place and situation. Aaron was expected to remind him of that.
Aaron, as a priest, was expected by God to uphold the torah/instructions. The word teach in the verse is from the Hebrew yarah (Strong's H3384). One of the verses this word's root is used is in Gen 46:28, which is translated to point out [the way].
Priests judge according to God's judgment. (Eze 44:23-24)
This verse is not talking about judging to mete out punishment, but in settling disputes or strifes. Moses was about to strike the rock. An act that Aaron knew conflicted with YHVH's instruction/law. Aaron, as a priest, was expected to side with YHVH.
It can also be said that Moses was conflicted between striking the rock and speaking to the rock. Aaron should have made a judgement call which would agree with God's judgement (speak to the rock).
Priests turn people from sin (Mal 2:6
As a priest, Aaron should have upheld YHVH's instruction/law/judgement and prevented Moses from sinning.
Priests are angels/agents/messengers of God (Mal 2:7, 'malak YHVH' -> 'Angel of the LORD'). The Hebrew malak is often translated angel. People at times call a person 'angel' because they think that the person was used by God to bless them or do them something good. Being agents of God, priests are expected to do God's bidding.
Anon said, No where in the bible from cover to cover has God ever make a decision for another being. He cannot since it is murder.
Do you remember Balaam? Num 22-23.
Yes, I remember Balaam. What's your point? Or are you afraid to be specific because you know that you cannot justify your point of view.
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ReplyDeleteAnonymous at 4:17 PM said...“Hardly any as full of hatred and lousy attitude as you 11:05. Scary hatred indeed.”
It is not so much a feeling of hatred and revulsion at GTA and his shameful sins. The feeling is more like a great sense of RELIEF and THANKFULNESS that I did not WASTE the past 40 years listening to the babbling of GTA and his stooges -- like some unlucky and rebellious, and now angry and bitter, suckers did.
Anon June 13 @6:19pm,
ReplyDeleteI don't think you remember, otherwise you wouldn't be asking me to be specific for something that refutes your blanket statement of 'nowhere in the bible from cover to cover ...'. Unless you're not the same person who made that comment.
Anon June 12 @12:36AM wrote, No where in the bible from cover to cover has God ever make a decision for another being. He cannot since it is murder.
I'll be specific if you will be specific how it's murder.
Ownership is defined as control. Hence making a decision for another is theft.
DeleteWhich is why life is intellectual independence,
Btw, Balaam had the right to disobey God, just like Moses did. Choosing to obey God does not mean that one is possessed by God, if that's what you are implying.
ReplyDeleteIf you don't hate lies you are either a destroyer or blind to the destructiveness of lies. The world is drowning in evil scum who lie for a "good cause." Like religion.
ReplyDeleteAnon, June 11, 2021 at 11:26 AM, said, in the conclusion:
ReplyDelete"...Both of them did not enter the Promised Land. Both of them died, though not at the same time..."
******
Yes, both men, Moses and Aaron, did not believe, nor sanctify God, in the presence of the Israelites. Their focus was more on self, than to God, who was responsible for the miracle of providing water.
FWIIW, Moses and Aaron were already in the promised land. At one point Moses was able to look in all directions, north, south, east and west and see the promised land. Moses died in the promised land.
Cities of refuge were within the promised land on both sides of the Jordan River: however, God told Moses he would not enter the land on the west side of the Jordan River, but he could view it. Moses died on a Mount within the promised land.
When Moses is resurrected at the time of the second resurrection, he, as an eye-witness, will verify that he was in the promised land, and died in it.
And time will tell...
John
7:01 being converted does not depend on which version of WCG a person came from. As it does not depend on which specific Pastor it is, who lays hands on a newly baptised person, the conversion and baptisim is the most importance.
ReplyDeleteI feel sorry for your hatred. I really do. You must have issues in your life that make you upset to spit out such hate filled comments online at perfect strangers. I have been very blessed by encountering many godly people who ended up in CGI. The are godly people (usually within the lay membership) in all the churches of God. Many lay membership ended up in CGI through no fault of their own, divorced people as one such example. Thankfully the majority of Churches of God in this day are not as mean spirited as in the past.
As i wrote earlier i feel sorry for you. Your heart should be filled with the Love of God and Jesus Christ not spiteful and condenming as you really might be totally wrong.
Think about it.
ReplyDelete2:20 PM,
I have looked into the various different WCG splinter groups.
There are NOT a lot of true WCG splinter groups with good people in them.
There ARE a lot of false WCG splinter groups with bad people in them.