Back in March of this year, Banned by HWA posted a piece by me entitled Why must your son be so disrespectful of you and your religion? In the post, I took my father's CGI "friends" to task for bringing to his attention everything I write about Armstrongism, CGI, or Pastor Bill Watson. I thought that it would shame those individuals into refraining from causing him distress, but apparently a few of those fine folks continue to delight in stirring the commode!
A few days ago, I received a notification that my brother had left a nasty comment about something that was posted on Banned on May 26th of this year: Church of God International's Civil War Over Covid-19. When my brother informed me about it, I asked him why he was commenting on something which had been posted over a month ago. He informed me that some of my father's church "friends" had brought it to my dad's attention, and that it had upset him so severely that he couldn't catch his breath (my father is chronically ill). Moreover, my brother went on to inform me that my father would not be attending his wedding reception because I was planning to attend!
After hanging up the phone with my brother, I couldn't help but think about two verses at the end of the Old Testament which Herbert Armstrong and the old Worldwide Church loved to quote. You probably already know the ones I'm referring to: "Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord: And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse." (Malachi 4:5-6) More proof that that verse had/has absolutely NOTHING to do with Armstrongism! Yeah, their turning hearts, but they obviously aren't turning them in the right direction!
Unfortunately, my family's rupture over Armstrongism is NOT unique in this regard. Even a cursory review of the comments and posts of those who have left Armstrongism over the years will demonstrate this sad reality. Indeed, when we survey the broken marriages and families directly attributable to Armstrongism, it is hard to imagine a more disastrous record with regard to interpersonal relationships, families, Christian love, and fellowship - the very things which they are supposed to represent and protect! Moreover, many of these folks have the audacity to turn on their critics and accuse them of causing dissension and disunity (talk about the pot calling the kettle black)!
And let's not forget that this particular splinter (CGI) claims to be very different from the Worldwide Church of God and to have moved beyond the teachings of Herbert Armstrong. If that is truly the case, then why do they keep repeating so many of his mistakes? Why do families like mine continue to suffer the recriminations and heartaches that were so much a part of Worldwide's legacy?
Now, while those "friends" probably (hopefully) didn't intend to inflict this kind of damage on my family, we (me and my loved ones) must all live with the fallout of their pathetic attempt to exert pressure on me through my dad to silence my criticism of their church. And, just for the record, on the other side of that wreckage, it didn't work! In fact, I am more motivated than ever to point out just how destructive and harmful Armstrongism has been to so many people.
Lonnie Hendriks
Hi, Sorry to hear that's causing such headaches and I know when I have the guts to share everything (preferably after I move out long story why not) my lcg stepdad will go postal & my mom'll try and make me see things her way since her way is God's way (I think she might be letting up on that a little but still...)
ReplyDeleteThe Church of God (Armstrongism) has destroyed thousands of families and lives over its existance. Such a disgusting legacy that today's splinter cult leaders whitewash.
ReplyDeleteI believe the original Hebrew, for the COGs, says "And they shall burn the hearts of the fathers and the children..."
ReplyDeleteAgreeing with Anon 224 - I've seen the havoc wreaked from several sides, with Armstrongism and other denominations.
ReplyDeleteIn light of this, I'd be interested in comments on Matthew 10:34-39, which includes the lines, For I have come to turn a man against his father, ... a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.
The most difficult relationships to deal with are those closest to us. This is where the true weakness of bullies often shows up as well. God wants Christians to learn to be assertive, independent minded people. The "obey God rather than man" thingy. By contrast, the ACOGs keep hammering away "obey, yield, surrender, submit," but the evidence is that most people are over conformist. The ministers don't give a hoot. All they care is about is their personal comfort and power-lust, so they keep pushing over conformity. Many school teachers are guilty of this terrible crime as well.
DeleteMy Dad also used to say that me posting on these sites is the reason my Mum wouldn't talk to me and that I was ruining what could have been in the relationship. The idea that after explicitly rejecting contact with you, the reason they aren't willing to talk with you is that YOU are posting things publicly is pretty twisted logic. I feel your pain...
ReplyDeleteWhatever, whoever you are as I don't know you. First thing that hit my mind is that you completely disregard the 6th commandment, and maybe none of that means anything to you. Call it corbin, corban, or whatever it may be, but at least you have excused yourself. YER good! Screw your parents, Dad, or whatever! Just how it sounded so self-righteously to me.
ReplyDeleteHoss, I believe these words were addressed to Christ’s followers of the day, who were overwhelmingly Jewish.
ReplyDeleteFor their following Him and His teachings they would be cast out of their synagogues, their families ripped apart, friendships destroyed and this did indeed happen. Jesus caused a great fissure within Judaism, to this day sadly. He was a threat to the establishment. And it is played out to this day, even within the COG movement. Does it say more about us as humans or religion? Whatever your take on this, His words were played out as He said.
The church has been found guilty of destroying far too many families. My mother did everything but marry the church. She lived and breathed it while destroying her relationship with her children. She alienated all of us from her due to the nastiness and fundamentalist adherence to church teachings. All the while she thought her shit didn't stink. We all now despise the church and everything it stands for. It is an ungodly organization as the Jim Jones cult was.
ReplyDeleteMy best friend also died due to the church and its asinine healing doctrines. She could have been saved with a simple operation but her disgusting parents refused to let her have it. She died at age 12. FUCK ARMSTRONGISM AND THE CHURCH OF GOD! All of you leaders have blood on your hands!
Anon 10:10 PM we are sorry for what you went through but try another splinter they might be a better fit for you.
ReplyDeleteHoss,
ReplyDeleteThese verses (Matthew 10:34-39) demonstrate the importance of context. Isolated from the verses which surround them, it appears that Jesus is intentionally stirring up dissension within families. However, when we are aware of Christ's audience in this instance and what motivated his remarks, these verses appear in a very different light.
At the beginning of the chapter, we read: "Jesus called his twelve disciples together and gave them authority to cast out evil spirits and to heal every kind of disease and illness." (verse 1) Next, the author of this narrative lists the names of the twelve disciples (verses 2-4). Then we read: "Jesus sent out the twelve apostles with these instructions..." (verse 5) Hence, it is clear that this message was intended for his twelve original apostles, and that the instructions which were to follow were related to the fact that he was sending them out on a mission.
Moreover, unlike the Great Commission which he would entrust to them after his resurrection, verses 5-7 make plain that he was sending them out to preach the gospel to their fellow Israelites (no Gentiles on this occasion). In the verses which follow, Christ makes plain to his disciples that they will experience a high degree of opposition to their message (verses 14-26). In this regard, notice especially verse 21: "A brother will betray his brother to death, a father will betray his own child, and children will rebel against their parents and cause them to be killed." We read that Christ went on to warn them that they would experience the same kind of opposition which his own preaching had generated (verses 24-25)
Finally, the author of the gospel informs us that Christ instructed his disciples not to be afraid of the folks who would generate those negative responses to their message (verse 28-31). Christ then proceeds to inform them that the acknowledgement of himself would determine whether Christ would be an advocate for an individual before Almighty God (verses 32-33).
Then, we come at last to the verses which you referenced (34-39). Hence, the context demonstrates that this message would not be well-received by many of their Jewish brethren - even among some members of their own families! Indeed, verses 37-39 make clear that the disciples MUST remain faithful to Christ - that their primary loyalty must be to him and his message. The passage then concludes with a promise that those Israelites who heed and/or assist the message of the twelve disciples will be rewarded (verses 40-42).
--Lonnie
The so-called "true" Christian wrote: "Anon 10:10 PM we are sorry for what you went through but try another splinter they might be a better fit for you."
ReplyDeleteWhy would I go and join another splinter cult of Armstrongism? The entire system is rotten to the core. Vile church leaders preaching corrupt doctrines.
Anon 12:00 AM Well, I also wrote Bible verses to correct you about your vulgar language problem, but I don't think it was approved by the administrator because I don't see it here and just because you had some bad experiences doesn't mean that God's church is bad. Not everyone in the churches of god are called out ones. The bible says there will be tares with the wheat. I think those tares are to test us and hopefully build character. So toughen up take the pain and you will get stronger but you want to leave the WCG splinter and loose your crown! I hope you repent.
ReplyDeleteNaive Christian
DeleteThis and other dissidents sites would not exist if only a few members "had some bad experiences."
Yes, I would agree that no one in the COGs could be considered "called out ones". You are correct in that.
DeleteSadly, Anonymous of July 12 at 12:24 AM wrote:
ReplyDelete"So toughen up take the pain and you will get stronger but you want to leave the WCG splinter and loose your crown! I hope you repent."
This statement is the part of the COG indoctrination to con people into submitting to endless emotional and spiritual abuse. Salvation has nothing to do with attending any church. Salvation is all about the work of Jesus - which you won't hear about in the COGs. Ephesians 2:8 - For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God.
Like the quoted statement displays, loveless COGs reject the commands of the New Covenant. John 13:34 - A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another.
The COGs are so vile and destructive because they don't know Jesus. Galatians 5:4 - You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.
The church has been found guilty of destroying far too many families. My mother did everything but marry the church.
ReplyDeleteAny church can have that effect on people. My parents would change (non-COG) denominations and expect us to be as enthusiastic about their decision as they were - specially my father. Suddenly my "loyalty" had to change. And the reason for changing churches could be as simple as parking space or walking distance.
The "hearts of the fathers..." thing ranks right up there with "...and the sick shall be made well." So many OT and NT promises simply are not true, were never true and could never be true. Religion in America shows that it is very likely if not a given, that the children of the super religious will reject that and go on their own merry way in life holding all the pain inflicted by the "piously convicted, yet marginally informed" zealot parents.
ReplyDeleteReligion generally and almost predictably will turn the hearts of fathers, mothers and children away from each other in time.
"Train up a child in the way he should go; even when he is old he will not depart from it" is also a glittering generality that is rarely true. "Should go" is also dicey and subject to wild fluctuations in interpretation and application.
"So many OT and NT promises simply are not true, were never true and could never be true."
ReplyDeleteI would expect nothing less from someone who does not believe the bible, but rather puts his own meaning into the writings.
but to the bigger issue I see here....just as the Democrats (Satan's useful idiots) have pulled out all of the stops and are running full speed ahead to destroy this Republic, you folks here are doing the same against the Church......the big difference is that you have no effect on the Church, but you do make yourselves feel better because you have a plethora of sympathetic ears hanging on your every word.
maybe time IS getting short.....
10.45 AM
Delete"You folks here are doing the same against the church."
No, we are not. The true "church" are those who are follow Christ. This and other dissident blogs have no argument with these Christians (minus the odd Dennis Diehl). Rather our argument is with the Pharisees in these churches.
That you package deal all members and ministers into your "church" (wheat plus tares) exposes your dishonesty and deceitfulness.
I suggest that you look at the log in your own eye.
Anon 10:45 AM we should not be political God's church must stay out of politics.
ReplyDeleteThanks Lonnie and others,
ReplyDeleteGlad to see you got the 3 C's of exegesis: Context, context and context.
Jesus warned His disciples that some towns wouldn't accept their message, so it would certainly cause division. I can see this having continued, as documented in Paul's experiences amongst Jews and Gentiles. It is still apparent, in Jewish, Muslim, and other communities, as well as the non-religious.
In the case of Armstrongism, I don't feel it's the words of Jesus that cause the division, it's theology, fringe teachings, organizational issues, etc. In my own family, there were issues when my father gave up Catholicism, when others became Catholic for their partners. In my case, it was my parents refusal to accept my Sabbatarian belief, and my trying to observe "OT, Jewish" practices.
"No, we are not. The true "church" are those who are follow Christ. This and other dissident blogs have no argument with these Christians (minus the odd Dennis Diehl)."
ReplyDeletemakes me wonder why you go to such lengths denying the existence of God...
Not every poster here is a atheist
DeleteMany are "independent Christians." As I said, a Christian is one who follows Christ. It is NOT necessarily one who is a ACOG member. Many ACOG ministers and members are failed Christians.
The is no such term as an "independant Christian". That is a well known insulting term of no endearment used by WCG towards anyone who left WCG whilst HWA was alive. It was used originally towards CGI members and is used as a broad marking scheme.
DeleteIt originated as an insult and is known as a insult. It is still used to this day. LCG and UCG love to use the term.
A true Christian is one who has repented of past sins, was baptized and in whom the Holy Spirit now dwells. Romans 8:9; 1 Corinthians 12:13
ReplyDelete