We have pointed out for a long time here the weekly smackdown that Doug Winnail delivered to Living Church of God members every week in the Weekly Update to LCG members. Almost every week it was something that members have been deemed to be doing wrong. Seldom were LCG members ever congratulated for putting true Christianity into practice in their lives. But, of course, this has been the track record of the Church of God over the decades and especially of those that were followers of Rod Meredith.
For the last three weeks or so Doug's weekly address to the faithful has been more "Christlike" by even mention Jesus as an example to follow.
One of my LCG's sources had this to say:
Glad to see the comments from Doug moving toward God working in people more so that people must strive to do this or that.
Happy to see this, "As we study and meditate on the word of God and ask God to help us change, we will develop more of the mind of Jesus Christ." Normally I would expect "...we must develop...." or "We should develop...." Also glad to see use of the name Jesus alone.
While I doubt very much he has changed his viewpoints due to this blog and the comments here, I do know that LCG rabidly monitors things posted here about them. Their Charlotte IP address is constantly blinking on the map. When Rod Meredith has to tell members in a sermon to not read this blog then we know the boys in Charlotte have been busy!
I have no idea if this is a new post from Doug or just another one he has dug up from the past to repost, but here it is:
COMMENTSTransforming Faith: How has your faith transformed your life? The Apostle Paul urged Christians, “do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind” (Romans 12:1–2). The word “transformed” comes from the Greek word metamorphoo, which means a complete and total change—as when a caterpillar undergoes a metamorphosis into a butterfly! Jesus told His audience they must repent (Greek word metanoeo), which means learning to think differently and turning with sorrow from a past course of action. As we study and meditate on the word of God and ask God to help us change, we will develop more of the mind of Jesus Christ (Philippians 2:5). As we make conscious decisions to think and talk and act as Jesus would—as we crucify the old self—Jesus will be able to live His life in us (Galatians 2:20). This is the transforming faith that enables us to come out of this world and be the lights that God is looking for in individuals who are called to be members of His family (Ephesians 5:8–10).
Have a profitable Sabbath,
Douglas S. Winnail
ReplyDelete"As we make conscious decisions to think and talk and act as Jesus would—as we crucify the old self—Jesus will be able to live His life in us."
I am very encouraged to read this. But "as we make conscious decisions to think and talk and act like Jesus" is still a little too close to works. I suggest repenting of trying to accomplish the work yourself, accept Jesus as Savior and LORD, accept His FINISHED work on the cross, receive the Holy Spirit, and abide in Christ.
We are New Creations and Philippians 2:13 says "FOR IT IS GOD WHO IS AT WORK IN YOU , BOTH TO WILL AND TO WORK HIS GOOD PLEASURE."
Ephesians 2:4-10
4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 SO THAT in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, IT IS THE GIFT OF GOD 9 NOT AS A RESULT OF WORKS, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are HIS WORKMANSHIP created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.
Be vigilant and study the Word, yet relax and let Him lead you in paths of righteousness.
The Holy Spirit will teach you.
There is a disturbing theme running through this little admonition for this wek. Everything seems to originate in the actions of the individual splinterist lay member. It is a kind of pep talk to perform better. This is wide of the mark for Christian theosis.
ReplyDeleteIt is not "your faith" it is the faith imparted to you by the Holy Spirit. "...repent, which means learning to think differently and turning with sorrow..." Yet in Acts 5:31 the scripture clearly states that repentance is a gift given by Jesus. And the statement "As we make conscious decisions to think and talk and act as Jesus would—as we crucify the old self—Jesus will be able to live His life in us..." places the burden on the lay member for initiating the work of Christ. But in the New Covenant it states "...That Christ may make His home in your hearts through faith, that you, being rooted and grounded in love..." Christ does not live in us by our thinking and talking like Jesus. Who knows how to do that? And certainly our performance is not what makes Christ's life in us possible or hinders it.
One can read through this admonition blithely and not notice that this is based on Performance Christianity. Its all about what you are going to do. It is not about, as it should be, what Jesus by grace has done for you that will result in a behavior change. As a recovering Armstrongist, I read through this several times before I was able to recognize this tightly woven and subtle theme.
The cart is before the horse. This starts with the actions of the lay member (which cannot even happen without the predecessor gifts of faith and repentance) and these righteous works without Jesus permit Jesus to join in contingently. It should start with Jesus and the actions of the lay member should be contingent on Jesus and the ministry of the Holy Spirit.
This kind of COG-speak is something that flows glibly and can be easily consumed. But one must ask if it is about works or faith.
******** Click on my icon for Disclaimer
There is a good Scriptural case to be made for living by both grace and by personal action in response to that grace. The apostle Paul himself talked about how he disciplines himself, lest he should become disqualified. In his letter to Titus, he talked about how we're saved by grace, not by works of righteousness. Then he tells Titus to continually affirm this, so that "those who have placed their faith in God may be intent on engaging in good works." Revelation 14:12 talks about "the saints - those who obey Godʼs commandments and hold to their faith in Jesus."
ReplyDeleteBut, I do agree that COGs have heavily focused on obedience and not devoted much attention to a robust preaching about grace or salvation through faith in Christ. I was a child growing up in WCG. In our Bible lessons, we covered the Old Testament thoroughly from Adam through to the kings of Israel and Judah. Then the next year we started back at Adam again. We never went through the life of Jesus or the book of Acts or New Testament theology. In hindsight I see that as a major deficiency and doctrinal mis-focus. In UCG, I am still frustrated that there is a mentality that we're saved by Sabbath-keeping, even if lip-service is paid to saying, no of course we don't think that.
On the other hand, I am disappointed that mainstream Christian churches don't take the 4th commandment seriously. And many don't take the 7th commandment seriously... then again the COGs are sometimes guilty there too. Sigh.
I agree completely with Anon August 20 at 3:03 PM and Neo - well said!
ReplyDeleteI can't criticize what Doug wrote - the egregious error is what he did not say - what the COGs have never preached.
Doug handicaps his people by not teaching them about Jesus - you can't have the mind of Jesus if you do not know Jesus.
The COGs don't know Jesus as the Sufficient Savior and therefore, have not entered the Sabbath Rest.
The GOGs don't know Jesus as their atonement who has made them righteous in the sight of God.
The COGs don't teach justification by the righteousness of Jesus - which is the starting point of developing the mind of Jesus and sanctification.
I believe the COGs do teach that God calls people to repentance and view faith as a gift from God.
However, the COGs do preach that the people must do many (but not all) works of the law to be transformed, to be righteous, to be saved.
The truth is that good works are a result of being sanctified.
Jesus did all the work that people could not do - to save them, to make them righteous, and to transform them by sanctification!
To all the COG members who read this blog: if you care to have your life transformed and develop the mind of Jesus, do a search on Bible Gateway for the words justification and justify. You could also throw in the words grace and sanctification. Study the verses in these searches until you can explain these topics to yourself - using the verses but not reading them, while you articulate them.
ReplyDeleteYou could also contemplate why your church does not focus on these verses. Ask why the emphasis of your church is instead on law, prophecy, calling out pagan customs of others, appropriate attire. Consider why your church teaches so little about Jesus making you righteous and saving you. Why is your church demanding you work for the gift God offers (Ephesians 2:7-9).
Does Doug Winnail, your church leader, or your minister have the mind of Jesus? Do they gush love and appreciation for the saving work of Jesus with the same passionate expression and frequency the Apostle Paul did in his writings? Or, do they spend most of their preaching time on topics that the Apostles of the Bible did not mention or barely mentioned?
There are many pastors outside of the COGs who are transformed by the knowledge of justification, sanctification, and glorification and on fire to teach you about God's grace. Tragically, the COGs ridicule the pastors and congregations outside of the COGs whose greatest treasure is Jesus.
Matthew 6:21
For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.
Anon, August 21, 2021 at 4:57 AM, said:
ReplyDelete"...Doug handicaps his people by not teaching them about Jesus - you can't have the mind of Jesus if you do not know Jesus.
The COGs don't know Jesus as the Sufficient Savior and therefore, have not entered the Sabbath Rest..."
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Doug does not know his biology very well, b/c he should have fact-checked his fairy tale about a caterpillar transforming into a butterfly, b/c that ain't true!
Doug does not know Jesus (and Doug's Jesus is not some "God of the Old Testament!") and Doug does not know The God, the Father! How do we know that? By Doug's own words of admission.
Didn't Jesus say that of Himself He could do nothing? Didn't Jesus say that He was sent to give us His Father's words? Doesn't the Bible say that all will be taught of God, The God? And that would include Jesus, His Son.
So, what mind did Jesus have? His Father's mind is what had been developed in Him! Jesus was the workmanship of His Father. For Doug: think about it! Eliminate the Junk Food regarding your Jesus, and the caterpillar to butterfly thingy!
Doug asked: "...How has your faith transformed your life?..."
It hasn't. My faith isn't worth much. We may have a physical faith that the water fountain near some restroom really distributes just water without any additives, but spiritual faith? If God does not give His fruit of faith by measure (Galatians 5:22; Romans 12:3, 6), we don't have it!
Okay, Doug referenced this: "...a complete and total change—as when a caterpillar undergoes a metamorphosis into a butterfly!..."
I suggest Doug obtain a booklet, ISBN 0-8024-3027-9, titled "GOD IN CREATION" by Bob Devine, if he/you can find it and learn, in reader-friendly language with pictures,about "several complex phenomena in nature," such as how a monarch butterfly grows inside of the caterpillar. Scientists call it "an embryo inside an embryo." The gist of this is that inside the caterpillar are tiny "nests" of anlagen butterfly cells inside the larvae. Those cells contain the butterfly genes, the building blocks for a butterfly. Here is a bottom-line quote from this booklet: "None of the caterpillar's body parts change into butterfly parts. They are all new and different. They came from the tiny "nest" of anlagen cells that were always inside the caterpillar's body..." Also, when the butterfly laid her eggs, "...there were two kinds of genetic information in them: caterpillar and butterfly..."
Again, for Doug: A creature that bites and chews, 6 small eyes on each side of the head, 2 very short antennae, 8 pairs of legs and no wings did NOT CHANGE into another creature that only drinks, with 2 compound eyes, 2 long antennae, 3 pairs of legs and has wings!
Your understanding about metamorphosis of caterpillar to butterfly is science falsely-so-called, but is your ideas and theories about your Jesus (another Jesus?) from some religion falsely-so-called?
Time will tell..
John
How can they repent, when they don't even admit when or where they have been wrong. They have the academic understanding of the transformation process, but don't exhibit the fruits. They have been unable to see the blind spots from the WWCG and they repeat them.
ReplyDeleteWhat I found interesting about Christ is that He knew others followers/disciples existed outside of his clique and He either visited them or told his original twelve to visit them. Even Paul found many disciples along the way on his missionary journeys. So this notion that that they (in their group) are the only ones who are the true christians is short sighted.
They need to focus in on the fruits of the spirit more in their individual lives than the prophecy (which will take place anyways).
NO2HWA wrote: "While I doubt very much he has changed his viewpoints due to this blog and the comments here, I do know that LCG rabidly monitors things posted here about them. Their Charlotte IP address is constantly blinking on the map."
ReplyDeleteI'm sure that what is written on this blog gets in Doug's head, as well as the rest of the the Charlotte boys. But no, Doug will not change his mindset much. He's in a difficult spot between his Protestant wife and the hardliners who hold his hope for retirement cash.
It appears that Doug's life has not been transformed by grace. His heart is not moved by grace enough to preach about it and Jesus is not an all-sufficient Savior for him.
I've learned that COG apologists will claim that the COGs teach that we are saved by grace, and perhaps they are somewhat correct that the COGs have written that in some obscure place.
However, the truth is they do not believe it.
Doug and the COGs believe that only Sabbath keepers will be saved because the sacrifice of Jesus only covers certain sins and only very select sinners. Furthermore, grace can't save you if you are not a member of the correct church. Jesus is not enough for them; he is their insufficient savior, so they believe in being their own saviors by doing the right works.
Doug is growing older and the inconsistencies in his theology are nagging at him, if his wife is not. Doug knows something is not right with COG theology but he is also very stubborn. Is Jesus knocking at Doug's heart, asking Doug to let him in? Perhaps that is why Doug's latest "Have a Profitable Sabbath" message was more Jesus-y. Let us pray that Jesus continues to use what Doug reads on Banned by HWA to transform Doug's heart.
The title of this particular "food for thought" is: "LCG: Is Doug Winnail Finally Letting Jesus Peek In?
ReplyDelete******
And the illustration shows a figure of Doug winnell showing "another Jesus" his heart, but what would be in that heart?
Well, wouldn't it be things that Doug will not admit to? For example, we have this:
Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
AND THIS?
Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
AND THIS?
James 4:5 Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy?
AND THIS?
John 10:13 The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.
Well, didn't Doug abandon a bunch of sheep in the wcg organization, and then go to another organization, Dis-United Ass., and then go to another group called "living," which has probably been "dead" since 16 January 1986?
How much does Doug really love and care for sheep, his sheep, Weston's sheep, whoever they are?
We do have his examples of the Friday night smackdowns! If Doug were meeting the prerequisites, and requirements, that he is asking everyone else to perform, that would be one thing, but Doug does not really live up to that "gold standard" of his own creating! And we understand that, even if Doug cannot understand it or see it at this time!
Doesn't Doug believe that all of his followers are great big sinners, that pile up their sins and put them in a big Santa Claus-like bag and then prior to Passover ask his followers to examine themselves so they can view, can see all of those sins? Why?
So his followers can see if they are just as Worthy as Doug thinks he is to attend a Passover service!
Yes, how does the forgiveness from God fit into that?
Where does Grace fit in the lives of Doug and his followers? Doug seems to be so blinded that he cannot tell his followers how that all works!
When will Doug, and his followers, repent enough to become Worthy of the kingdom of God?
Doug, we all need lots of help, and there is one who claims to provide it, but, decently and in order, and in accordance with His own timing. I suggest you not put the glory, honor, praise and thanks on yourSELF or other human beings for transforming the heart! You have the wrong vision and you are not getting the point!
I suggest we don't look to peek at Doug, a self-professing" evangelist (something like the self-professing prophet Bob Thiel), or his heart (which is like ours).
Well, you may peek, but time will tell...
John
Doug Winnail telling the people to develop the mind of Jesus is a good thing!
ReplyDeleteIf the people do develop the mind of Jesus, they will leave the LCG for a church that actually preaches Jesus and his New Covenant message.
Anon, August 25, 2021 at 3:39 AM wrote:
ReplyDelete"Doug Winnail telling the people to develop the mind of Jesus is a good thing!
If the people do develop the mind of Jesus, they will leave the LCG for a church that actually preaches Jesus and his New Covenant message."
******
Excellent points, b/c a servant/hireling of God (not Satan's 2 Cor 11:13;15; I John 3:8; James 4:5) would give us the words of Christ's Father, like Christ actually did, and that means all about the fruits of the Father's giving, all about grace (and not about prerequisites, and conditions, to qualify SELF for some mere opportunity to be saved), that His Father grants/gives repentance, and seals those individuals who were predestinated to become Firstfruits, those of God's Church, and not continue to spew out Fear religion and false prophecies of another spirit (Satan and his angels), and another Jesus with another gospel that did not originate with His Father.
Doug left the pasture (John 10:9) and fell away from the worldwide Church of God, and sought out something (someone?) in the Dis-united Ass., and failing that, scattered further to the living group, a pasture of stagnation since 16 Jan 1986, and grace-less Fear religion, and continue to lord it over others.
So much for caring for any of God's sheep as Doug became part of the scattering that John 10 predicted...thanks to some "wolf" Doug apparently was afraid of and could not stand up to it, if that was the case.
When will Doug return to God's pasture, God's Church, wherever that may be, and be fed nourishing spiritual food that he may then be allowed to share with others, who are still starving for such food?
Time will tell...
John