5 Kingdoms and Ministerial Chess Moves - Dave's Madness Intensifies
5 Kingdoms. You read that right. We're talking Game of Thrones level drama. Hell, Nebuchadenezer is going to be resurrected as the golden head folks!
Not even a week passed, and he had many more hours of nonsense to preach. Wednesday, part 322. Then, according to RCG, "a powerful element modifying timing came clear immediately after today's message was delivered." Translation, Dave was immediately wrong and had to correct himself. This lead to part 323 being delivered on Thursday, where he again claims the series is over. In fact, his very message is an oracle from a prophet who has been raised.
All the while, he must believe none of this is true because he is moving his ministers around like a frantic timed chess game. James and Sandra Rodrequiez have been moved from HQ to Colorado. (They are likely on their way to leaving RCG altogether if they have been sent out of headquarters.) Vidal and Christina Wachuku have been moved from Florida to Texas. The Jacksons have been moved from California to Florida. And the Rouzans (whose wife and son have already left RCG) have been moved from Chicago to California. Palmer has been moved to Atlanta and Garb has been moved to HQ from New Zealand.
The madness continues. And people stay...tithing, giving their life savings.
From an RCG source
This goes way beyond nutty, eccentric professor. There is no way it can end well for his followers.
ReplyDeleteMy family and I had one interaction with Pack back in 1993 when he first joined Global. I asked him one question and he told me in front of my family that “this may not be the right place for you.” How correct he was…we left and never returned.
ReplyDeleteDave Pack looks very old, tired and ill in those photos.
ReplyDeleteI have taken the time to listen to Dave's last two sermons and I don't think I can assure you, no one sitting in that audience could explain back to him what he thinks is so "easy peasy" to understand now. He did predictably say "We never understood it until now..." etc which is a common way of putting the blame for not understanding something on them all. When Dave thinks he understands something, of course he only credits himself with the discovery.
ReplyDeleteI honestly have to say that I tried to understand what he was talking about and came up empty. I found myself asking "What the hell is you talking about?" quite often. He bounces all over the Bible, New Testament and Old badly making verses mean what they never meant or ever could mean.
Dave sees visions of sugar plums dancing in his head for sure and he and all his congregants are going to have one great crash when nothing this man has come up with turns out to be real. They are wasting their lives sitting before this charlatan two hours at a time every week hearing the last sermon on the topic until Dave get's the itch to be seen again and listened to next week. Dave does not for one moment teach Christianity as most humans know it. He is lost in his own world of believing he is special in his knowing and in the eyes of his imaginary God and Christ.
The Restored Church of God is on a collision course with reality and it won't end well.
Does anybody else from back in the day recall him wearing his high school letterman's jacket to class at AC?
ReplyDeleteDave Pack reminds me of Fauci.
ReplyDeleteI blame Dennis for all this because he could have brought Pack down years ago but cared more about the other hireling Pack than about the sheep.
ReplyDeleteIs Dave crazy or does he just enjoy attention and manipulating people? I suspect the latter.
ReplyDeletePack is unhinged and could very well be Armstrongism's Jim Jones before it is over. Flurry on the other hand is just a big huckster who blurts out false prophecies and hounds his congregation for endless tithes and offerings , often bringing up the dip in the "jet fund" Maybe a Beatles cover band can do special music referring to Gerald as the "Tax Man" only changing the title to be the "Tithe Man."
ReplyDeleteI recall the first time I went ice skating. It felt painful since most people there could skate, but I couldn't. Even though most were at a basic level. My point is that Dave and other ACOG ministers must likewise find it painful that many members are spiritually succeeding while they are failing.
ReplyDeleteSo out of envy they only give spiritual milk or like Dave, outright garbage.
DennisCDiehl said...
ReplyDelete'I have taken the time to listen to Dave'
Where can one hear this message?
ReplyDeleteThe current RCG members seem to think that someone like Dave Pack, who is so possessed by Satan that he vomits out endless wrong prophetic date guesses, actually has the Holy Spirit. This shows a serious lack of discernment on their part. There can be some consequences for such an error in judgment, such as losing everything they have to a satanic fraud.
I've been convinced for quite a while that David Pack has ben suffering from an untreated mental illness , probably bi-polar. His pulpit spewings seem to exhibit the fight of ideas that is so common in many mental illnesses. I can only hope his second wife and his children can get him committed to a mental hospital before he does something Jim Jones dangerous.
ReplyDeleteWhen someone is as obsessed over numbers like Pack is, you know he has no substance, no concern for fellow man, and no common sense. As if his god is playing some sort of mathematical quiz game or something. The number-crunching is just a way to make him feel like he's doing something grand and arriving at answers.
ReplyDeleteAnon said:
ReplyDelete"Flurry on the other hand is just a big huckster who blurts out false prophecies and hounds his congregation for endless tithes and offerings"
You may be right, Anon. However, Flurry has always struck me somehow as just a blundering fool, rather than some sort of sly huckster. Hard to be sure, but he seems to be just a simpleton who was awed by HWA and has followed his dream of being like him. Just without the charisma, of course lol.
ReplyDelete“England Ignoring UCG Literature”
Why should anyone read UCG literature? It does not do any good. The people who hang out at the UCG do not seem to read, or believe, or obey, the UCG literature. They just go to the UCG to spout off their own religious theories that contradict all sound doctrine.
Fourteen months ago, Dave said he as "the goodman of the house and faithful and wise servant" of Matt. 24:43-47 - he would know when he gave his last message, which by the way, was that day.
ReplyDeleteDave has said repeatedly, that anyone leaving the church before hearing him unto the end, is a fool!
Herbert Armstrong taught one kingdom. Dave, misinterpreting one verse expanded the kingdom understanding into two kingdoms. This was soon expanded to teaching three kingdoms. Through the years, Dave retreated back unto two kingdoms. Now in his latest children's book titled "count the kingdoms with Dave" the all suspenseful conclusion is there are now six kingdoms to come.
So the pertinent timely question is; is this all an explosion of spiritual understanding given unto a highly spiritually gifted individual to be heard throughout the whole world or, is this just another episode in the children's drama, learn how to count with Dave the purple dinosaur Pack?
Many churches have flirted with predictive prophecy and end time events. But they seem to learn something from the experience. For instance, Martin Luther. John Headley wrote of Luther:
ReplyDelete"In all of [ Martin Luther's ] work there was a sense of urgency for the time was short... the world was heading for Armageddon in the war with the Turk."
This theme was nurtured even after Luther's death in 1546. But over the centuries something was learned because a modern branch of the Lutheran church issued a report regarding "End Times" that asserted "repeatedly taught by Jesus and the apostles is the truth that the exact hour of Christ's coming remains hidden in the secret counsels of God (Matt. 24:36)."
Apocalyptic Millerites (that term would have been redundant back in 1844 but not necessarily so now) don't seem to learn this lesson. They are caught in Bill Murray's "Ground Hog Day" loop. Prophecy is their oxygen.
I do not believe a day of reckoning for this Splinterist preacher is coming for all the reasons identified by Dr. Leon Festinger in his book "When Prophecy Fails." This seems to be a a closed system that self-perpetuates if certain conditions are maintained. Too lengthy to get into here.
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ReplyDeleteThis man is deranged, unhinged, and present danger. He has become everything he spent many many years warning people about. A wolf in sheep's clothing.
So sad! The crazy part is, mostly everyone who was there at the start of this thriller sci-fi series is gone. So most of the people hearing this are newer members who can't reference the Pack everyone knew prior to this sermon series. They don't have before and after memories in their head. He use to spend more time preaching about false prophets, the truth, how truth enters the church, and Christian living sermons, and being a guard of truth and not setting dates and getting goofed up in prophecy. Giving the church proper meat in due season. Setting aside Dave's antics, when the church was under this direction, it was tolerable. Because at the time I felt like I was in an environment that was helping me mold into a wholesome person. Then the series came along and it turned dark and very toxic, QUICKLY.
Beginning with sermon 1, RCG started posting a before and after of the sermons to member services showing what was chopped and no longer applicable. This was supposed to be a tool that the members could go in and check in on for continuity purposes and to clarify what in Packs' thinking has changed or "been revealed, inspired, or clarified or updated. This proved to be detrimental as the series went along most of the sermons were entirely chopped down to virtually nothing because the entire thing no longer applied. They stopped doing it and turned off the tool. It was eye-opening because you would recall sitting there for hours being convinced of the scriptures and seeing time after time just how Dave Pack was able to make the scriptures fit his twisted self-serving narrative and he made it make sense. Like you would read the scriptures and listen to his explanation and it made sense. But then a week later it was no longer the case. And he would take the same scripture plus a few more and he would explain it and it would just unfold and again, make sense. Like puzzle pieces locking together to reveal the picture. But 4 months down the line you'd look back at your notes and it was all wrong.
This made me question everything. What is the truth? I couldn't answer that anymore. Every week I thought I was being revealed the truth, and he was absolutely sure of it, on God's authority or else you can just throw away your bible.
So that's what I did. Because, what is the truth? David Pack is a master manipulator and he's skilled at being able to take a list of scriptures and a narrative or "private interpretation" and make it seem like its truth. As if we were reading things and it was real-time corroborating the world around us. It gave me goosebumps, but for all the wrong reasons.
As time past I realized this was a sick place to be in. For my mental sanity. If this man could read you the bible and make it seem like it was speaking to us what else is he capable of.
From discussions with former members and employees over the years, it points seriously to evil spirit influence if not more..I was told years ago by former employees of Dave's irrational rantings and tantrums that they were NOT from a Sane Man!!
ReplyDeleteAstonishing that ANY of RCG members are not picking up on this!!
Are THEY in A Trance over there?
All these transfers seem to be as far away from Dave as possible. Is it possible their loyalty and beliefs are concerning to Dave and when they bolt he does not want them too close to where most of his support, his gyrating staff and a few other surrounding states, comes from?
ReplyDeleteDave's going to to up the number of kingdoms from 6 to 7. 6 is simply not an acceptable number.
ReplyDeleteIs Pack getting crooked CURTAIN advice from Bobby Thiel?? :-)
ReplyDeleteIf Rod Serling of the "Twilight Zone" were alive today...
ReplyDelete"Pack unlocks the door with the key of mad imagination...
Beyond it is another delusion , a delusion of sound, a delusion of sight, a delusion of mind.
He's moving into a land of both shadow and substance, of things and ideas. He has just crossed over into… the Twilight Zone."
ReplyDeleteWHAT ABOUT THE TRUTH at 7:07 AM said...“So the pertinent timely question is; is this all an explosion of spiritual understanding given unto a highly spiritually gifted individual to be heard throughout the whole world or, is this just another episode in the children's drama, learn how to count with Dave the purple dinosaur Pack?”
Learning How To Count With Dave Pack
Yesterday: 1 + 1 = Whatever Dave wanted it to be yesterday.
Today: 1 + 1 = Whatever Dave wants it to be today.
Tomorrow: 1 + 1 = Whatever Dave wants it to be tomorrow.
Note: None of the three, or more, answers are likely to be the same, and none will be the number 2 unless you go much further back into the past. The number 2 probably can never be the right answer in the future.
DennisCDiehl said...
ReplyDeleteAll these transfers seem to be as far away from Dave as possible.
That contrasts with what Rod Meredith used to do. Anytime a field minister was doing his job a little too effectively, Rod would transfer him to Charlotte where he would be buried in the bureaucracy. Examples are Mario Hernandez and Wally Smith.
ReplyDeleteWHAT ABOUT THE TRUTH at 7:07 AM said...“Dave has said repeatedly, that anyone leaving the church before hearing him unto the end, is a fool!”
Would you rather have Dave Pack call you a fool for walking out at the beginning of his endless noise, or would you rather actually be a real fool and listen to 300+ episodes of Dave Pack's noise?
Don't let Dave Pack fool you.
The danger lies in the idea that one can insert themselves into scripture, believing that they are the ones being referred to. ie, I am Moses, Elijah, both of the two witnesses, John the Baptist, etc. This is called among other things, delusion. The more one sinks deeper into madness the more out of reality they drift. They then begin to believe that they can understand things that others cannot. Now up to 5 kingdoms, 1.5 days, 2.5 days, then 22.5 days, then 3.5 days, then 75 days, then 7 years . Fantasy evolving and growing into madness. None of this is of God, rather a mind that has lost touch of reality. Snap,crackle,pop!
ReplyDeleteDave the purple dinosaur Pack
ReplyDeleteFIRST VERSE, SUNG BY DAVE'S YES-MEN:
I love you, you love you
Won't you teach us something new?
With a great big head
And common from we to you
Won't you say you love us too?
SECOND VERSE, SUNG BY DAVE:
I love me, you love me
I'm God's greatest, don't you see?
With a big campus
And abuse from me to you
Won't you pay me common, too?
Dave is 73 years old. He must be anxiety ridden knowing that the lake of fire is near.
ReplyDeleteI do not see how these churches sustain themselves. Are most of the members just survivors of Worldwide? If you put most of them to the test of scripture they fail miserably. Flurry and Pack are obvious the most dangerous split offs from Worldwide and they do fit the definition of a cult. I remember a friend telling me back in the 90's that one of Flurry's close associates died(someone by the name Amos?) and he tried to raise him from dead. Of course he failed thereby qualifying himself as "That FALSE Prophet!"
ReplyDeleteWell, 2:21, this mental turmoil has been going on for some time with each generation of Armstrongist ministers. As the WW-II generation, the Korean War generation, and now the Vietnam generation has transitioned into old age, and approached imminent death, they simply want to witness validation of what they allowed to inform, co-opt, and govern their lives so that they can know that they have not wasted their precious time on planet Earth on foolishness. In a way, you have to empathize with Dave's angst. I believe that he has deluded himself to the extent that he believed sequentially that each of his false prophecies would actually come to pass. Can you even imagine that roller coaster ride? He is an extreme person, something he must have learned early in life from being a winning athlete, and has gutted himself all his life for something for which the probabilities of it happening in his lifetime are rapidly diminishing.
ReplyDeleteThe thing is, he is not alone in his angst, and the bipolar existence which it would produce. I would have to believe that most of the other ministers of his age are caught up in this, as well as a large percentage of the members. HWA was able to back away from prophecy, and to derive meaning for his life from traveling the world as an "Ambassador Without Portfolio". We've all known for decades now that the splinter ministers were not HWA. They simply do not have the born abilities to transform themselves into anything more meaningful than Armstrongist ministers.
We're going to witness much more craziness from these ministers, and their craziness will no doubt foster craziness amongst their splinter members. Remember, members are schooled in their beliefs much as Jehovah's Witnesses are schooled in the teachings of Charles Taze Russel. When either group parrots the eisegetics they are taught, whether it be from Kingdom Hall, or at their local ACOG splinter, they honestly believe that the people who go along with those eisegetics are obeying God, and those who do not are rejectors of God.
9.04 PM
ReplyDeleteYes there's people in the splinter universe who are doctrinally deceived, there are self deluded members who believe that they are perfect, and can't be persuaded otherwise. But there are also members who have waved the white flag and given up trying to qualify for the kingdom. When I attended services in the 1980s, I came across several ministers, elders and members in this category.
Based on his fruits, I have no doubt that Dave is one of these people. Which for instance, accounts for him heartlessly robbing widows of their homes. Dave knows that his eternal death is at the door.
Well RCG is minus one member after being exposed to Covid in Flagstaff. Came home sick and transitioned to the next world 3 weeks later. The only positive thing to come out of it is that he is finally freed from Pack and his lies.
ReplyDeleteit's interesting to receive all of this insider information, especially to see pictures of Dave as he plants his poisonous seeds. I'd have to believe that the people of Wadsworth, seeing Dave's little gated Potemkin Village, would be totally unsuspecting of what actually is taught and ongoing at RCG. If a Jim Johes type incident does occur, The community will most likely be astonished.
ReplyDeleteDoes Dave ever explain how all these details are supposed to help RCG members become more Christlike in their character and daily activity? Christ's followers for the last 1,970+ years somehow managed to overcome/qualify without Dave's ever-changing new information, so what daily relevance does/should it have for RCG members today?
ReplyDeleteWhat's even more interesting is that there is an offshoot of RCG, located in Canada. In this little offshoot, it is believed that the member leading the group is the Elijah to come, and He will cry aloud and spare not to RCG members. He will restore the truth in RCG. Pack will be destroyed. This little Elijah group/offshoot believes they have been given the correct timeline of prophecy.
ReplyDeleteAll this is based on packs prophecy which in itself sounds like an unpublished harry potter manuscript, to begin with. This same ex-member who claims he will restore the truth in RCG and prophecy was removed from the RCG more than 4 times for spreading conspiracy theories to members. A real lunatic for sure. RCG has a lot of extreme personas within their membership, probably why these people stick around for such a long time or have to be removed and marked publicly. I mean this guy is a real nut job.
RCG is a place for titles. Everyone has fancy work titles, religious titles, all kinds of titles and entitlements.
When are church brethren going read the scripture and hold false prophets accountable? By their own words they have proved themselves unfit. Pack and Flurry make all sorts of predictions and prophecies that fail to come to pass. They are false shepherds who seek power and glory for themselves. They also harm lives and destroy families.
ReplyDelete
ReplyDeleteThe earlier members of the RCG might have known some things and meant well, but got totally blindsided and wiped out by Dave Pack's shocking Bait & Switch behavior.
The current RCG members do not seem to know anything and appear to love utter nonsense.