Living Church of God still is claiming to have the sure word of prophecy, Bwana Bob begs to differ as he and he alone has the only true interpretation of prophecy. What a crap fest this is all turning into when NONE of them have any sure word but are just trundling forward on their own speculations that have no basis in reality with none of them winning the argument.
Importance of Prophecy:
Today, many are anxious about the future. People are told that no one can accurately predict the future and that the Bible is just a collection of myths and stories. Yet, the Bible actually reveals the future. The Bible plainly states that “All scripture is given by inspiration of God” (2 Timothy 3:16)—and that includes nearly one-third of the Bible that is prophecy. We also read that only God can predict the future and bring it to pass (Isaiah 46:8–11). The Apostle Peter writes to the Church, “We have also a more sure word of prophecy” that needs to be recognized, especially as we approach the end of the age (2 Peter 1:16–21, KJV). God has given His servants an understanding of prophecy so they can warn this world of coming events and offer hope for the future (Isaiah 58:1; Revelation 1:1; 10:7; 22:6). However, the Scriptures also reveal that the people and leaders of Israel will be blind to what lies ahead because they have turned away from God (Isaiah 56:10; Jeremiah 2:17–19; 5:20–21). Let’s be thankful for what God has opened our minds to understand about the future (Matthew 13:10, 16–17), and let’s use this knowledge to fulfill our mission of warning the world and preaching the Gospel of the coming Kingdom of God!
Have a profitable Sabbath, Douglas S. Winnail
At least this wasn't the usual Friday Night Smackdown with LCG members being accused of doing something else wrong.
Prophecy is the opiate of the COGlodytes.
ReplyDeleteAddiction develops from their exposure to COG-odd prophecies.
The prophecy opiate causes a release of dopamine and activates the rewards system of the brain to make COGlodytes believe they will be God as God is God.
The prophecy opiate does reduce pain and produces a sense of well-being - thus allowing the COGlodytes to endure abuse.
The prophesy opiate destroys brain cells and brain mass, which leads to difficulty with thinking and reasoning.
The prophecy opiate also produces general malaise toward Jesus, including apathy toward his justification, minimal desire for redemption, and reduced interest in being saved by Savior who does all the saving work.
I'm having difficulty understanding the ranking of importance of the gods in COG theology; does Jesus come in third or forth place - or maybe it's seventh?
ReplyDeleteSeventh would be good, since it's the COG number of completion; but, maybe Jesus is in eight place?
To help me understand, I wish the COGs would produce a hierarchy chart on a card and send it out with the card that has the dates of the holy days on it.
Is this the correct COG order?:
1. Satan (as the most powerful being)
2. Prophecy
3. The Law (COG version)
4. The Sabbath (as contortedly kept by the COG)
5. God the Father (who is separate from and higher ranking than Jesus).
6. HWA
7. COG splinter leader (insert name of your own favorite)
8. Jesus
That sure word of prophecy has been sputtering along through the last 90 years of history used to prove the churches sure word of prophecy is sure wrong
ReplyDeleteProphecy is nothing but delusions of a deranged mind.
ReplyDeleteI say again to ALL of the ACOGs: YOU AREN'T EZEKIEL, AND WE AREN'T ISRAEL! The Christian message to the world is SALVATION THROUGH JESUS CHRIST! Your "warning" message only heightens/exacerbates anxiety - it does NOTHING to calm and reassure. Moreover, your message about a wonderful "World Tomorrow" is a simplistic, juvenile, and Pollyanna view of the future that has little basis in reality or God's actual plans for the future.
ReplyDeleteThe sure word of prophecy includes “only 3-5 more years, 10 at most” and also whatever Gerald got wound up about on newsmax that week.
ReplyDeleteAlso, like Herbie before them, they love to quote that statistic about one-third of the Bible being prophetic to give legitimacy to their preoccupation with eschatology. However, that statistic is clearly misleading when it is used in this way, because a great deal of that prophecy has ALREADY BEEN FULFILLED! Even passages like the twenty-fourth chapter of Matthew and the book of Revelation have a great deal of prophetic material that has already found its fulfillment in the past. Hence, the actual percentage of biblical prophecy that deals with the end times is much, MUCH less than the one-third they love to reference!
ReplyDeletesputtering along through the last 90 years
ReplyDeleteDave Pack's answer to this was, This was written nearly 2000 years ago! We're a lot closer to the end time now! If you say HWA was wrong, then Peter was even more wrong!
But Peter didn't prophecy the outlandish nonsense Dave does!
This was what was always wrong with Armstrongism, the Armstrong "hook"! Pretend you have the keys to unlock prophecy, and swear up and down that it applies to today. Create incredible fear of what will happen to the listener or reader if he or she does not "obey God" as defined by Armstrong eisegesis. At just the right time, drop in the perfect solution, which is to become a member of their very special small group which will be counted worthy to escape all of the horrors. Make it somewhat difficult to become a member so that it will seem to have value, and oops! Even if you are a member, there are loyal and diligent ones called "Philadelphians", and there are lazy haphazard ones called "Laodiceans" who are not dedicated enough, and still might not be counted worthy to escape. Oh, and if you ever do leave, then, since you were once enlightened, you are accountable for the "truth", and unless you repent and return, the Lake of Fire awaits you.
ReplyDeleteAs with all long cons, eventually the con wears out. People put on their thinking caps and mount responses and rebuttals, debunking and diffusing it so that the con is known and no longer effective. As it filters down, knowledge replaces fear, and most people are immunized to something that might otherwise have enslaved them and ruined their lives.
If HWA had concentrated on the blessings of a Christian lifestyle, the freedom in Jesus Christ, and how perfect love casts out fear, all of us would have been far better off. Some did not learn from his prophecy failures during World War II. Those caught up in the boom of the 1950s and '60s created by the "1975 in Prophecy" marketing program did not learn when 1975 failed to materialize. HWA had booked a personal appearance campaign for Jesus, but had failed to notify Jesus. No matter, the new switch of "probably within the next 3-5 years" came into play, and most of the membership reprogrammed with this new mantra. Now, people who still teach Armstrongism have gone absolutely crazy with prophecy, accomplishing spectacular and ludicrous failures without a scintilla of embarrassment or shame, and their members applaud them for "fulfilling the great commission".
But, go in peace and have a wonderful sabbath!
Anon 4:05 AM got it all wrong. HERE is a list of the gods of Armstrongism, ranked from top to bottom:
ReplyDelete1. Mammon. Salvation is by works, and your greatest work is to pay your splinter leader the money that is rightfully his.
2. Your Splinter Leader. He has the 'binding and loosing' power to pick and choose the details of your religion and your life. The Law is whatever he says it is, and you must keep the Sabbath his way.
3. HWA.
4. Satan. He'll capture you if you don't give #1 to #2 in obedience to #3.
5. Your local minister. God's government will kick your butt if you don't obey him.
6. Your local deacon. Set up those chairs your own way, and your rebellion will be reported, and God will kick your ass.
7. God the Father. He's more important than Jesus, but ineffectual enough that he needs #1-#6 to do his job.
8. Your local ushers. Behave, or they'll report you to the deacon who'll report you to the minister.
9.The hall rental guy who has the key. Annoy him and you'll have to have services in the parking lot. Dedicated church buildings are for fake Christians.
10. That Jesus guy. He is even welcome to come to Sabbath services, as long as he cuts his hair, shaves, wears a decent suit and carries an appropriate briefcase.
ReplyDeleteHow To Be EVEN MORE SURE About Prophecy
Simply do NOT believe any of the prophetic guesses that the false prophets like Flurry, Pack, Weinland, or Thiel make up. You always can be pretty sure that they are wrong yet again.
AND WE AREN'T ISRAEL!
ReplyDeleteNot genetically - and I'm trying to avoid writing "but spiritually".
Paul (who tends to be quoted a lot more than Jesus, but less than HWA et al) wrote that through Jesus we are "grafted in" and made a part of the "commonwealth" of Israel - as the covenant is with Israel, not with some new entity called "the Church". The "New" Covenant will be with "Israel and Judah" - not with "Christians" or some COG.
I suggest that people check with God whether the tribulation is near or not.
ReplyDeleteIt's a simple reality test.
Miller,
ReplyDelete"Your "warning" message only heightens/exacerbates anxiety - it does NOTHING to calm and reassure. "
So true!
Trypho, I read Hebrews 8 and it seems like this covenant or perhaps portion of the covenant is directed to Israel and Judah as a "new covenant" because they had had a previous covenant. the gentiles had not...and it was not a new covenant to them?
ReplyDeleteJeremiah 31:31 is direct at Israel and Judah, "Behold, the days come," says the LORD, "that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah"
DeleteThe Gospels say Jesus will return suddenly when no one expects it - like a thief in the night.
ReplyDeleteRevelation says that there will be a man of sin plus a three and a half year tribulation, which is a clear timetable.
Which is it? Sudden or after 3.5 years?
10.49 AM
DeleteWhen a person dies in an accident, which can happen to any one of us, Christ has effectively returned for that person. So Christ can return suddenly for everyone.
It's not just the gospels: 1 Thess 5, 2 Peter 3:10, and Jesus Himself in Rev 16:15. The interpretation (or misinterpretation) of revelation plays a large role in this- who was the man of sin? I am becoming more and more convinced that the HWA understanding of prophecy is not accurate. For example, he ignores the historical context of Matthew 24 to a large degree. It seems this chapter was mostly fulfilled in 70ad. Perhaps the role of prophecy today isnt so much a point by point schedule for Jesus' return- after all no man knows the day or the hour.
Deletejim, that seems like a play on words. Offering something for the first time as "new" using it as a comparison to "none".
ReplyDeleteWatch out for plays on words and tenses in translations of Hebrews - as well as interpreting it using Platonic rather than Hebraic thought.
offering something
ALREADY BEEN FULFILLED!
ReplyDeleteThere is type and antitype in prophecy; the early and later fulfillment -- unless you are a preterist. Some Jewish sages suggest prophecies have as many as five fulfillments.
Sorry about the stuck key typo in my previous response.
Anon 4:55:00 PM PST
ReplyDelete‘after all no man knows the day or the hour’, so true.
Yet the fact that we are mortal beings leans us towards wanting to know the ‘end’. As if we would influence its appearance to arrive sooner or later.
HWAs understanding of prophecy was deeply flawed, especially his pronouncements about ‘nations’ and the events surrounding them. Yet for many of us it made perfect sense, well for me it certainly did at the time.
But again that reflects on Christianity as a whole also,taking into account the times we were living in, let alone cog theology.
The end will still arrive in due course, remembering that our salvation is a gift from above.
‘Prophets’ will arise as they always have to titillate and fascinate us all, as we see within Armstrongism today.
There is nothing new under the sun.
"I suggest that people check with God whether the tribulation is near or not. It's a simple reality test."
ReplyDeleteNot so fast there, 9:32. It could be an indicator of who amongst us is schizophrenic. It is also something which could be influenced by bias confirmation. I am pretty sure that the following people all feel that they have checked with God on this: Ron Weinland, David Pack, Gerald and Stephen Flurry, Gerald Weston, Dr. Doug Winnail, Jim Franks, Victor Kubik, Bill Watson, Mark Armstrong, Zerubbabel, and Bob Thiel.
There seems to be some residual feeling out there that regardless as to how many times "wolf" has been falsely cried by these same fine people, sooner or later the cry just has to be real and accurate. I guess it's kind of like the old Allen Funt Candid Camera program. "When it's least expected, you're elected, you're the star today! Smile, you're on Candid Tribulation!" I've been tryin' to get Grandpappy to call his latest batch of 'shine "Old Tribulation" but he's afraid it'll offend some of his sensitive Christian customers who love to have a couple of sips while they study their prophecy.
Peter, or someone writing for or on behalf of Peter, gives us an interesting analysis of prophecy in I Peter 2. The author is speaking of the factual nature of the appearance of Jesus in person and how their eyewitness experience "firms up" prophecy. He writes:
ReplyDelete"For he received honor and glory from God the Father when that voice was conveyed to him by the Majestic Glory, saying, “This is my Son, my Beloved, with whom I am well pleased.” We ourselves heard this voice come from heaven, while we were with him on the holy mountain. So we have the prophetic message more fully confirmed." (NRSV)
Notice that the second sentence above is translated ambiguously in the KJV as:
"We have also a more sure word of prophecy"
But "more sure" and "more fully confirmed" in what sense? By the fact that they heard the actual voice of God speaking about the divinity and sonship of Jesus Christ. This statement is saying that prophecy is confirmed by actual fulfilled events. It is not saying that whatever interpretation you lay on prophetic scripture is certain. It is in this latter sense that many pre-occupied end time prophecies erroneously understand this statement. They cite an idiosyncratic interpretation of a passage and then claim it is sure because of 2 Peter 1:19. An interpretation is an interpretation.
It does not make sense to claim that the author is saying that an interpretation of OT prophecy is "more sure" than the Twelve actually hearing the word of God. He is stating that the prophecy is made "more sure" by the actual fulfilled events. This is the sense of the NRSV translation and other translations.
Then the author goes into the fact that prophecies are univocal and not equivocal and then a small treatise on false prophets. Long story and you probably do not care but this has been a long-term misunderstanding among apocalyptic Millerites.
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I think Doug means "more sure" in the way it's meant at fraternity hazings.
ReplyDelete"Thank you, sir, may I have another?" = "More? Sure!"
IF THIS IS TRUE; THEN HOW DID THE OPENING OF A SEAL IN REVELATION GO RIGHT OVER THEIR HEADS???????????? (Rev. 6:1-2) Someday the world will know that LCG is a TOTAL FRAUD!! WHERE is the LOVE????
ReplyDeleteIn order to properly discern whether an event rises to the level of an opened seal (since events are subject to interpretation and further events), there would need to be several of them opening in sequence to corroborate one another. I liken them to a thermometer. Temperature can rise, only to stop and to fall back to a lower temp with the passage of time. As the temperature rises, it does not always follow that it will continue to boiling point. Weinland prematurely made some calls several years ago, and ended up looking like a complete fool when there were no second or third steps.
ReplyDeleteJust out of curiosity, what seal do you believe has opened, and why?
1:36 asks:
ReplyDeleteJust out of curiosity, what seal do you believe has opened, and why?
FWIW, I do not believe that any seal has yet been opened.
"Telescoping [-] The leaping of a prophecy from a near to a far horizon without notice of intervening matter" (J. Barton Payne, “Encyclopedia of Biblical Prophecy”, p.xviii).
While it is not with out its problems, I see the letters to the church in Revelation as “telescopic”.
1Pe 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
In the “far horizon” they are a warning/exhortatory messages for the endtime churches before the start of the Great Tribulation.
The seals begin to be opened after the death and resurrection of the Antichrist (Rev 13:3, 14b).
Da 11:44 But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many.
Traditionally the COGs have taught that Da 11:44 happens well into the Tribulation.
2 Maccabees 5:5 But when a false rumor circulated that Antiochus was dead, Jason gathered fully a thousand men and suddenly attacked the city.
2 Maccabees 5:11 When news of what happened reached the king, he took it to mean that Judea was in revolt. So, raging inwardly, he left Egypt and took the city by storm.
But when 11:44 is compared with Antiochus Epiphanes, the OT Antichrist [see below], it is the counterpart to the beginning of the OT ‘tribulation’.
Da 11:35 And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.
"The purging process is indicated in verse 35 to continue "to the time of the end." It is clear from this reference that the persecutions of Antiochus are not the time of the end, even though they foreshadow them. The mention of "the time of the end" in verse 35 is notice, however, that from verse 36 on, the prophecy leaps the centuries that intervene to the last generation prior to God's judgment of Gentile power and its rulers. Beginning in verse 36, prophecy is unfolded that is as yet unfulfilled" (John F. Walvoord, Daniel - The Key to Prophetic Revelation, (Chicago: Moody Press, 1971), p.269).
"The entire section from Daniel 11:36 to 12:3 continues a revelation of the major factors of the time of the end which may be summarized as follows: (1) a world ruler, (2) a world religion, (3) a world war, (4) a time of great tribulation for Israel, (5) deliverance for the people of God at the end of the tribulation, (6) resurrection... and (7) reward of the righteous. All of these factors are introduced in this section. Added elsewhere in the Scriptures are the additional facts that this time of the end begins with the breaking of the covenant by "the prince that shall come" (Dan 9:26-27); that the "time of the end" will last for three and one-half years (Dan 7:25; 12:7; Rev 13:5); that the time of the end is the same as the time of Jacob's trouble and the great tribulation (Jer 30:7; Mt 24:21). Minor additional details are supplied in Revelation 6-19" (John F. Walvoord, Daniel - The Key to Prophetic Revelation, pp.281-82).
Da 2:32 This image's head was of fine gold, his breast and his arms of silver, his belly and his thighs of brass,
Da 2:33 His legs of iron, his feet part of iron and part of clay.
“The two eastern kingdoms are marked by nobler metals; the two western, by baser; individualization and division appear in the latter, and it is they which produce the two Antichrists" (A. R. Fausset, Daniel, JFB, Vol.2, pt.2, pp.419-20).
Da 11:31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.
Antiochus, the OT Antichrist provides the ‘type’ for the Beast, the NT Antichrist (cp. Mt 24:15).