Church of God governance chart
We have all watched over the decades as the Worldwide Church of God and all of its hundreds and hundreds of splinter groups placed heavy emphasis on "proper church government" which translates power is at the top and trickles down till nothing is left for the members other than to submit and be treated like dirt.
Exit and Support Network has an interesting letter posted showing how this top-down government the COG has ties to Communism, all thanks to Herbert Armstrong. Dave Pack and Gerald Flurry have taken this power to the extreme end where it is truly communistic in its overreach.
Sickened to Find Out Where GF and HWA Modeled Their Organization After:
February 16, 2022
While listening to GF’s latest sermon given at HQ on February 5 (“The Antiochus / Obama Warfare”), I was just sickened when I realized where exactly HWA and subsequently GF modeled their organizations after.
In the sermon, GF said HWA wrote some powerful articles on communism in the early 50’s and 60’s. Please notice this quote–an exact quote–of GF quoting HWA describing communism:
“A ruthless totalitarian dictatorship. It is run with absolute power, a few men at the top, all of whom are completely subservient to one man who is dictator absolute. This one man dictatorship is supposed to be necessary because there may be different interpretations of the Marxist philosophy. Therefore, to prevent division they must have a supreme interpreter.”
The above quote came from an article by Herbert Armstrong in the 1962 Plain Truth:
“It is a ruthless, totalitarian dictatorship. It is run with absolute power by a few men at the top–all of whom are completely subservient to one man who is Dictator Absolute! This one-man dictatorship is supposed to be necessary because there may be different interpretations of the Marxist philosophy. Therefore, to prevent division, they must have a Supreme interpreter (“Communism, ‘Christianity’ and Double Talk” by Herbert W. Armstrong, February 1962 Plain Truth, p. 26)
If this doesn’t describes the PCG “church” government precisely, then nothing does! And just like communism, everyone is required to protect the government structure at all costs. Anyone who questions or stands up against that government and its injustices that the government inflicts, are immediately “dealt” with.
Upon further research from HWA’s own mouth. (Which I highly recommend everyone do). I came across a co-worker letter from February 1st, 1939. In this letter it shows HWA’s original form of governance–completely different from today. He later changed it when he realized he had to have complete control! [Note by ESN: You can also read it here: Did Christ Reorganize the Church? (February 1939 Good News article showing Herbert Armstrong condemned hierarchal church government in his early years.) [offsite article in PDF]
Then, notice a co-worker letter from November 24, 1967. In here, HWA describes in his own words how he began to study and research communism! Here’s a quote to get you started:
“I knew the Communist purpose and goal. I knew the Communists methods and tactics. I knew their philosophies and teachings. I knew how actual Party members are yielded completely to Communist Party discipline, obedient at any cost–willing to make any sacrifice for it.” (November 24, 1967 Brethren & Co-Worker Letter from Herbert W. Armstrong)
PCG members, did you know this?? Tell me you’re not living this? Prospective members do you know this??
HWA also stated in the above referenced co-worker letter that he had arranged to receive regular weekly bulletins, containing inside information in regard to communist’s activities in the USA.
Exact quote:
“In the early years of The WORLD TOMORROW broadcast, beginning 1934, I had an arrangement with a secret investigator, working in connection with a major city police department, to receive regular weekly bulletins, containing inside information in regard to Communist activities in this country.” (November 24, 1967 Brethren & Co-worker Letter from Herbert W. Armstrong)
You can find these co-worker letters all over the internet, but I like to use this site because I know they are legitimate [Note by ESN: Dates to the co-worker letters are on the left side in the box.] This site has all HWA’s original material) Please do your research. Look into the history!
PCG government was designed after communism. HWA and GF may claim that communism is the counterfeit of God’s government. Nowhere in the Bible is this form of government described or used.
–TC
Flurry is the obvious proponent of such a government, but in fact it is all over the COG. Rod Meredith taught it very strongly, Weston continues it, and it has spread to offshoots RCG, Bryce, and Monson. UCG and COGWA are afraid to bring the subject up, lest they alienate the HWA devotees in their midst.
ReplyDeleteOne of the big abominations resulting from this governmental structure is that of "ministerial infallibility". Rod Meredith spoke on this often with this reasoning: "This is the Church of God, right? And Jesus Christ is the head of the church. He can install or remove any one of us leaders any time he wants. Whatever wrongs I might have done have not risen to the point where Jesus has seen fit to remove me from my position. Therefore if you then decide that I should not be the leader, you are judging Jesus Christ." Besides the fact that anyone anywhere could say the same thing (as does the pope), this gives the leader unlimited, unrestricted, unquestioned power.
ReplyDeleteHello LCG Expositor,
DeleteI would agree with your comments. I have come out of LCG in the last couple of months, and it has been incredible to see just how many errors are taught to enforce this do doctrine, and then how many errors are enforced because of this. I thank God that He had allowed me to see through this- my prayer for anyone in LCG is to test and prove all things against the Bible. If something doesn't make sense/ feel right, or you see a blatant twisting of scripture (or history) to enforce a doctrine, or witness spiritual abuse, then it isn't right.The tragic thing about it is, many in LCG (I mean many) don't agree with the doctrine of government but feel comfortable or trapped to do anything about it.
You need a top down government in the church for order or else you would fall apart like UCG's democratic government.
ReplyDeleteFirstly UCG is not democracy, it is more of an aristocracy. Members don't vote for anything. Secondly, top down government is not biblical, see Matthew 20:26-26 and 23:8-12 to mention two.
DeleteYes 100% correct UCG is very much a aristocracy.
DeleteAs in many groups not everyone fully subscribes to the system of rule in place. Not everyone supports the UCG aristocracy as it's greatly flawed. Look at the fruits of it.
You left me hanging by mentioning the sermon title.
ReplyDeleteWhat do Antiochus Epiphanes and Barack Obama have in common?
I don't recall Mr. Obama ever visiting Ambassador Auditorium - IF that's the connection.
Central control of all monies and power, without any local empowerment or control is the danger sign.
ReplyDeleteThe one thing that a "free market" allows for , and perhaps is its beauty, is that it allows for failure, or for the marketplace to produce an alternative or choice.
Non of these are allowed in any COG organization. Thus, you have a backwards, decaying sociology, just like Cuba does with its 1950s automobiles.
The closet athiest's keep the COG organisations backwards and decaying you above all should know that Tonto.
DeleteTry and do anything, no matter how small, to build up interest and you will be met a wall of resistance.
Pull out your handkerchief, dangle it in front of your minister and then pray, "Lord, if you want this man to continue to be in charge, catch!" Then drop your handkerchief. If it hits the ground, your prayer should be "Thank you, Lord!" and walk away.
ReplyDeleteUp North, Trudeau just invoked martial law to eliminate his political opponents supporting the convoy. That will come to America soon under Biden. No different from tyrants in the church except for some are on the left and some are on the right.
ReplyDeleteRhis is really sad, it completely emasculates the men, and that’s how they want it. They aren’t allowed to make ANY life decisions with out first counciling with the ministry. And if they don’t then as soon as something bad happens, as is the case in every single human beings life, they abuse you and blame you and it all happened because you didn’t consult “god’s government”. I’ve seen them abuse people in so many disgusting ways.
ReplyDeleteWhat did you expect, 7:57? Supply chain issues have been crippling the economy and driving the horrible inflation that is diminishing the value of our currency. Just as these issues are beginning to resolve themselves, these (mother)truckers' actions, whether intentional or simply not thought through, are a renewed attack on the supply chain. This was something which was funded and set off by monied interests and there are plans to bring it to the USA as well.
ReplyDeleteSo, somebody had to get vaccinated. Boo hoo! There are lots of mandates that we've lived with for years, and nobody complains about them. It's time to stop listening to the extremists who are intent on starting a civil war, and to unite to fight the problems all of us are facing instead.
"Up North, Trudeau just invoked martial law to eliminate his political opponents supporting the convoy. That will come to America soon under Biden. No different from tyrants in the church except for some are on the left and some are on the right.
ReplyDeleteWednesday, February 16, 2022 at 7:57:00 PM PST"
Good for Trudeau!
Some of us are sick of this pandemic- get your damned vaccine or prepare to be fined to oblivion!
And in true WCG/LCG style, Bob Thiel insists on top down "governance" in his group. The only problem at CCOG HQ is that he is the only "leader" - the others are scattered around the world in their own microdominions. If he would try to exert power over his African evangelists, he risks them abandoning him for closer ties with the other ministries where they belong. It's hard to govern pluralists!
ReplyDeleteLet's not forget about Bicontinental Bob's bizarre round-robin ordination ceremony a few years ago.
ReplyDeleteHe traveled to Africa to meet with one of his new leaders who was already styling himself as an "Evangelist" from some previous ordination. This African "Evangelist" told his people that he would be ordaining Bob in the ceremony. Bob, however, thought he was ordaining the African guy into leadership in his ACOG.
This tells us that Bob was insecure, deep down, about his own status as an Overseer who had been double-anointed but never before ordained. And it shows us how the African and American leaders use each other for their own gain.
UCG is more like a OLIGARCHY, than aristocracy.
ReplyDeleteAristocracy implies title thru inheritance or bloodline. An oligarchy is control by a small group, mainly AC grads in this case.
Good point- although there are certainly some who think inheritance of titles should go in the blood as a aristocracy and a preisthood. In LCG, if you have a last name of McNair, Meredith, or Winnail, you are a shoe in for a ministerial position and hence COG royalty.
DeleteIf you substitute JB for GF, and COGE for PCG, (I've been in both of these cults), you have a perfect view of the Brisby plan of salvation. Keep in mind that the Bible says specifically that Scripture is the only source for doctrine, (2 Tim 3:16) and yet from one his recent sermons (they are online for all to hear and see), Brisby creates a doctrine on the wearing of earrings (it makes you a 'bad girl'), from the 1978 movie Grease! And still there are the 'sheeple' soaking all this in, all the while insisting that Brisby is Christ in the flesh. So he, like the Pope, HWA, Gerald Flurry, et al; has God's authority to do away with doctrines and commandments by calling them 'Ceremonial Laws' and then to create new doctrines out of thin air (or movies, or the Bible Stories or wherever else he gets his 'inspiration' from. (See Mar 7:7 & Mat 15:9)
ReplyDeleteAmazing ..... I am so glad I removed myself from that cult quite a while back.
The only form of church government that works,
ReplyDeleteautonomous & congregational!
All forms of government have inherent weaknesses- however the question should not be 'what is the best form of government', but 'what does God want'. Many in LCG argue that top down is the 'best" because it is the most organised and efficient at doing a job. That might be so, but it out of necessity leads to lording it over the brethren. This then is not what God desires. I agree,the congregational model seems to resemble the NT churchmost accurately. The only COG I know who have this model is COG7 and seems to work well. They are still doing a work, ministers respect the members, and members respect each other. Ministers don't veiw themselves as above members, but a brother in a position of service.
DeleteHWA also informally adapted many commie doctrines. For instance he taught the give way. Well, who does the giving and who does the getting? Since nature abhors a vacuum, the mind will project into this void the beliefs in that culture, which is ownership by need. Market forces are considered taboo in ACOG-land. This even includes the choice of ones friends. My last minister complained about the members I was shunning, a right exercised by the very crazies I avoided. All the personal responsibility inherent in the parable of the talents are viewed as the personal property of the ministers. If that's not communism, tell me what is?
ReplyDeleteThe PCG frequently quote HWA as opposing communism, but they misrepresent his position. He opposed Soviet communism because it would not him to play church. He complained about home grown communists morally weakening the country, which was also a threat to him playing church. But he NEVER criticized or condemned their doctrines, such as tyrannical government, ownership by need, or that people are the chattel of the state. Of course not. In HWAs church, members are the chattel of the church. Chattel has no rights. Which is why the demand for endless "counseling" by the ministers.
This is the proverbial putting new wine (God's way) into old skins (commie ideology).
Wednesday, February 16, 2022 at 11:41:00 PM PST
ReplyDeletethese are the types of people that COG ministers and people like Trudeau are made of. they're so high about themselves and think less of other people who have different views than them. this is what constitutes evil - no respect for other people's choice, opinions, or beliefs.
Or, as HWA used to quip in one of his occasional jokes, "Top knot, come down!"
ReplyDelete"top down government is not biblical, see Matthew 20:26-26Open in Logos Bible Software (if available) and 23:8-12Open in Logos Bible Software (if available) to mention two."
ReplyDeleteLCG ignores these 2 scriptures because they too easily destroy the idea of top-down church government. Instead, they use Exodus 18 to justify their pyramidal hierarchy. That doesn't work either, if you look at it. To refresh, Moses's father-in-law Jethro saw that Moses was over-burdened and suggested a solution, namely, a top-down pyramidal hierarchy. The question is, is this of God? Rod Meredith said "yes, because it is in the Bible." But lots of the Bible is just history, so that's not a good enough reason. Others will say that God inspired Jethro, but there is not a shred of evidence to support that. In fact, in Ex 18:23, Jethro says, "If you do this thing, and God so commands you, then you will be able to endure" (NKJV). Clearly, neither Jethro nor Moses knew if God was behind this or not. So, where did God so command such a structure? Nowhere. If He had, you can be sure the hierarchalists would site that verse. In fact, fast forward to Numbers 11 and we see that once again, Moses was over-burdened. If Jethro's solution was "of God", why didn't it work? Moses was still over-burdened. So, Moses appealed to God. Did God say, "You know, that idea I inspired Jethro with didn't work -- never mind -- scrap that idea -- try this instead."? God could have said, "I had the solution all along, but you never asked." Actually, God did provide a solution, and it was similar to Jethro's in that He had Moses select men to help him, but unlike Jethro's pyramid, this structure was to be completely flat. 70 men - no pyramid. God knows full well that when power is consolidated, men tend to abuse it -- just like we've seen with Pack, Flurry, Meredith, etc.
Another point Meredith tries to make is the scripture that is repeated 4 times in the book of Judges, "In those days there was no king in Israel; everyone did what was right in his own eyes." Judges 21:25 NKJV. Meredith said that the people need a one-man ruler, otherwise they won't obey God. However, the fact that there was no king in Israel is exactly the way God wanted it. NO KING. God wants each individual to choose to follow Him of His own uncoerced, uncontrolled free will. Sure, men will stray, but that is better than obeying God because a man will club them over the head if they don't. Is the man obeying God out of a love for God and His ways? Or out of a fear of what a man will do to him? God needs to know.
9.09 PM
ReplyDeleteIf you read the account, Moses's "pyramidal hierarchy" was a response to Moses's settling legal disputes. He was the supreme court. Moses's five layers of legal resolution parallels the number of levels of courts (about 4) in most developed countries. So the pyramid was purely their legal court system. I find it hard to believe that ministers are ignorant of this.
Ministers ignore Christ's instruction to not be like the lording gentiles. They ignore the parable of the talents. Note how Christ judges every person for what they have done with their talents. So they must be the exclusive property of each person rather than the property of the ministers.
These ministers even hide that Christ leads every person directly. I have never read an article or heard a sermon/ sermonette on following God's lead.
Like Satan, ministers exalt themselves above the brethren, stealing their very lives.
Well said
Delete"Did Christ Reorganize the Church?" Is a fascinating read for anyone who has any knowledge of the wcg or any modern cog splinter. Knowing the history, in that HWA followed Dugger out of COG7 Stansbury (then taught the apostolic structure of 70 and 12), and then turned on him, it really demonstrates how he was willing to say and preach what was convienient at the time. To those in Living COG now- Rod Meredith did EXACTLY the same thing when he started GCG. He first had to teach people that obeying government in the church wasn't as important as he did in the past- then when he got a following, he taught it was! See this on friends of the sabbath for a read:
ReplyDeletehttp://mail.friendsofsabbath.org/ABC/Global%20Church%20of%20God%20literature/Church%20Gov%20&%20Church%20Unity%20-%20RC%20Meredith(1993).pdf