Like most mystery religions and works-based belief systems, the United Church of God has a progression of steps that members need to observe in order to receive salvation. It is an uphill climb that most will never be able to advance up the steps on. Scripture even states that people cannot do this. Yet, here we are.
Christianity for centuries has understood that salvation is from one source and that is granted freely. Yet the COG and others make it a burdensome load to carry and try to accomplish. The COG is always in an uphill battle trying to please its god.
What is that drawing even trying to communicate?
ReplyDeleteIs it saying that after you are baptized, you have to wait until the next Passover to start keeping the Holy Days and growing as a Christian? That's what the steps would seem to convey, as you can't safely skip steps of a staircase. And, obviously, according to the chart, you can't observe the Day of Atonement unless you have previously observed Pentecost and Trumpets, otherwise their image of stairs would be contradicted and have no meaning.
I hope this staircase was just poorly thought through, and that it isn't a serious doctrinal effort by UCG.
What a horrible chart!
ReplyDeleteWe know (at least we used to know, and I hope UCG still teaches) that in the Millennium and White Throne Judgment there still won't be infant baptism. People will have to reach the age of reason and knowingly accept the gift of the Holy Spirt, which a very, very few will reject.
The UCG chart, however, shows "God's Spirt in you" as a Pentecost milestone. Using the staircase metaphor, this means that having the Holy Spirit is a prerequisite for stepping into the White Throne Judgment, even though the vast majority who come up in the WTJ will never even have heard of the Holy Spirit. How confusing!
Also, the staircase weirdly smacks of work-based religion in showing that you must be holy and become a living sacrifice, separated from the world, before you have the Holy Spirit. Maybe a Pharisee would think that way, but a Christian surely wouldn't. I feel sorry for the UCG members who are being fed such junk theology.
Well, this is by Mario Seiglie, not known as the brightest bulb in the theological realm.
ReplyDeleteFrom what I remember from my Worldwide Church of God days (1968 to 1976), we were taught that God's annual Feast days pictured God's PLAN of Salvation - not STEPS of Salvation. The Feast of Tabernacles pictured the wonderful World of Tomorrow with Christ's millennial rule on earth with the Saints for 1,000 years - not "beautification Eden like". In fact, WCG under Herbert Armstrong taught that at the start off the Millenium, the earth would be anything but "beautiful" having survived the Great Tribulation with German bombs dropped all over America, and armies fighting the returning Jesus Christ at the Mount of Olives (Special note to Restored Church of God members, please note according to the Bible, Christ is to return to the Mount of Olives, not Wadsworth, Ohio).
ReplyDeleteRichard
There are many theologians now and in history past who recognize a process or steps within the plan of salvation:
ReplyDeleteJustification/ sanctification/ glorification
Have been saved/ are being saved/ shall be saved
Begettal/ growth/ birth
Planting/ growing/ harvest
These steps are accomplished by God and are not hoops we conscientiously set up and jump through on our own! Do the holydays picture this? I would say "YES"!!
For believers, the Trumpets step really should be the top step. Once a saint is "transformed," he or she has made it. (Or else they can jump immediately to the chart's top step.)
ReplyDeleteThis strikes me as a stairway to salvation for the entire human race, not simply UCG members.
As long he didn't play "Stairway to Heaven" as he explained this...
Anonymous 1:23:00 said, "Also, the staircase weirdly smacks of work-based religion..."
ReplyDeleteMY COMMENT - A stepwise function is completely in appropriate as you point out with your GWTJ example. This stepwise portrayal also implies that Jesus sacrifice at Passover is lower importance than the gift of the holy spirit given to the Church on Pentecost. Jesus's sacrifice is also lower than everything else that follows as we climb the stairs. It doesn't make any sense, and someone was not thinking in the Dis-United Church of God.
Richard
This stepwise portrayal also implies that Jesus sacrifice at Passover is lower importance than the gift of the holy spirit given to the Church on Pentecost. Jesus's sacrifice is also lower than everything else that follows as we climb the stairs.
ReplyDeleteWhen you put it that way, maybe it IS consistent with WCG teaching. We used to hear a lot about how the Old Testament bigwigs had the Holy Spirit. There was debate about whether they had the Spirit "in" them or merely "with" them, but the clear teaching was that they had the Holy Spirit even without being baptized into Jesus Christ.
Jesus was the God of the Old Testament, and the Holy Spirit was part of His Old Testament administration of the Law. Jesus' 33 years on Earth were mostly about qualifying Him to become King of Kings, and about His magnifying the OT Law, expanding baptism to peoples who hadn't been taken across the Red Sea.
I think the Holydays have a deeper meaning and Armstrongists may have understood some of those meanings. Yet, if one believes in Biblical literalism, the Holydays are all about the Exodus from Egypt and nothing more. That is all that the Bible permits us. A chart like this may contain some correct information based on allegory but it is a denial of literalism.
ReplyDeleteThere is another concern with setting up a stepwise function to yield salvation. The forced linearity is violated by some of these steps working in synergy. But many denominations, not just Armstrongist denominations, have tried to define a sequential process for salvation. Paul himself said the proximate cause of salvation is faith. But he also said:
"For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life." (Romans 5:10, ESV)
Other scriptures will establish that Paul is talking about salvation resulting from Christ living within us. This is not a stepwise function but the holistic life of Christ functioning in an integrated way with all parts in synergy. We're talking about a Being and not a manufactory.
I think the chart is meant to lend support to the keeping of the Holydays. It seems to label the OT Holyday observances as New Covenant. But just a chart doesn't do it. Just like if a bear rides a bicycle, that doesn't make him a human. It is an interesting teaching aid for certain allegories, maybe. But there is a whole New Testament theology that must be dealt with before you validate the assertion that the Law of Moses is still in force.
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Seven steps? Appears to be only three in Ex 23:14-16. "Times" in verse 14 does have several meanings, including Strong's 7272: a foot (as used in walking); by implication, a step. The three feasts appear to be harvests, resurrections, in succession in God's Plan.
ReplyDeleteBut the old WCG, apparently after reading Lev 23, twisted Ex 23:14 to: Three seasons shall you keep seven feasts.... But "times" does not mean seasons. The three feasts in Ex 23 are (Hebrew) chag/chagag, whereas the "feasts" in Lev 23 are (Hebrew) moeds which include the three feasts and the weekly sabbath and the annual sabbaths of first, tenth, and the 22nd of the seventh month. A more accurate translation in Lev 23:2 would be "fixed times" or "appointed times".
As a longstanding UCG member I've never seen, heard or been aware of such a chart. I notice the chart is copyright to Mario Seiglie. Do you have his permission to share it online ?
ReplyDelete11.14 PM
DeleteGoogle the "fair use" principle.
But even people with John the Batpists' water baptism were entering the kingdom. This was before the holy holy was even poured out.
DeleteSo the chart is flawed.
They received the Spirit many days before Pentecost “And when He had said this, He breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit.“ John 20:22
DeleteThe feasts and appointed times are indeed important but some teachings need revised and studied on further.
This chart is freely visible on the UCG website in the sermons section. It is also being spread around the globe right now by Craig White and is also on a certain Facebook page.
ReplyDeleteThe ACOGs are basically businesses selling a product. This chart is not unlike the collateral materials churned out by the marketing department of any major company to support their product. As we all know, truth and advertising are oxymorons. This chart is a flawed attempt at adding value to the Old Covenant and its holy days. The words Old Covenant and Christian are also oxymorons, but that's what Armstrongites are, Old Covenant Christians.
ReplyDeleteLake of Fire is correct. --
ReplyDelete"From what I remember from my Worldwide Church of God days (1968 to 1976), we were taught that God's annual Feast days pictured God's PLAN of Salvation - not STEPS of Salvation."
The illustration used by Seilgile as a methodist type of systematic theology is a private interpretation. The scripture references are all correct, but actually, the Holy Days are best viewed as a holistic whole, rather than a check list.
Christ and his shed Passover Blood is first and primal of course. God historically has used these annual days as "appointed times" even after the Cross, such as delivering the Holy Spirit on the Day of Pentecost.
The personal copyright by a pastor seems odd to me, as I have never seen such on the UCG website. Could someone post the exact URL link , as a cursory search of UCGs page was futile in finding this.
@ 7:52 AM, I think you've hit on something that could revitalize the ACOGS. Multi-level marketing! For every new member you recruit, you receive 5 percent of the tithes and offerings sent in by that person and his/her downlines!
ReplyDeleteIf your job is paying you $36,000 per year, and your tithes and offerings amount to around $4,000, just think of the possibilities. Bring in 20 new tithe-payers with incomes about the same as yours, and you'll increase your income by about the same amount you were previously tithing. If each of your downlines on average recruits another 7 tithe-payers, your recruiting for the church will have doubled your income! Looks like it's time for the church to write a new booklet on Financial Security!
My understanding is that there are three phases of salvation. The first is the salvation from the penalty of sin. This is the born again experience. Peter writes about being born again in the past tense, (I Peter 1:23).Then we move onto the second phase, being salved not from the penalty of sin, but the power of sin. This is moving from being immature to a more mature Christian. This is a lifelong process. The third phase is being saved from the presence of sin, which will be when we have our glorified bodies.
ReplyDeleteThe Jews understood being born again as an event in your life where you are changed forever. They recognized several of these events. Getting married, having a child, being ordained a priest. Nicodemus was "born again" in every way he was familiar with. Jesus added one, being born from above. Being changed from the inside. Today, in the USA, we can add other "born again" experiences. Going through basic military training, serving in combat, loosing a loved one, getting mugged, becoming paralyzed, etc. HWA view of being born again was very limited and probably received from the JW's. I wonder if he paid a royalty to the WatchTower Bible Tract Society for his use of so many of his teachings. Maybe he should of identified the WCG as a subsidiary of the WBTS.
"This program has been brought to you by your friends at the WCG and the JW." Goodbye friends.
AnonymousWednesday, May 11, 2022 at 4:17:00 PM PDT wrote:
ReplyDelete"...Jesus was the God of the Old Testament...'
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Really? That wasn't true when we may read the following plain language in Acts 3:13
Acts 3:13 "The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go."
Time will tell
John
Splitting hairs 'John'.
DeleteAnon, Thursday, May 12, 2022 at 11:39:00 PM PDT, said:
ReplyDelete"Splitting hairs 'John'."
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What is there to split? There is no splitting of the following verses:
Deuteronomy 32:39 "See now that I, [even] I, [am] he, and [there is] no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither [is there any] that can deliver out of my hand."
No splitting there. There is no: "See now that We, [even] We, [am] us..."
How about the next verse?
:40 "For I lift up my hand to heaven, and say, I live for ever."
Both the Word and Jesus had a beginning...and an end. Granted Jesus Christ was a few nights in the heart of the earth, and He was not alive as in: "live for ever."
Of course, the Word was made flesh and no way could it claim to "live for ever," either.
Only One, not two, claims to "live for ever."
What's there to split? And that One wasn't God's Son!
For those who believe that "I" and "Me" can mean two or three or "We" and "Us?"
Time will tell...
John
Climbing the stairway to heaven...
ReplyDeleteLake of Fire Church of God at 2:04:00 PM PDT said...“From what I remember from my Worldwide Church of God days (1968 to 1976), we were taught that God's annual Feast days pictured God's PLAN of Salvation - not STEPS of Salvation.”
ReplyDeleteIn the disUnited Church of Godlessness each unrepentant, unconverted, unbeliever makes up and spouts off his own pet theories.
This stairway is so bad, and so indicative of COG-odd theology.
ReplyDeleteThe chart has the acts of man, in keeping the Holy days, on top of each step – but the acts of God are under each step – depicting how Armstrongism prefers the shadows (Hebrews 10:1) over the realities found in Jesus.
The Holy Days are the here-and-now focus of the chart, while the acts of God in salvation are shown to be in the future.
I was very surprised to see Justification mentioned in the chart and I love the verses Seiglie cited to depict Justification.
However, using the word “Repentance” as descriptive of Justification is unscriptural.
The word “Obedience” does fit with Justification, as in the obedience of Jesus that led to his death and made justification available to us.
However, since this is Armstrongism, I’m assuming either Seiglie or his intended audience, or both, connect obedience with repentance and believe these two concepts are what people must do to earn justification – which again, is unscriptural.
To further prove that Seigle doesn’t grasp the meaning of Justification, he has Evaluation as one of the last steps of salvation and cites Revelations 20.
Saints are judged one hundred percent righteous, at the time they are justified, due to the perfect righteousness of Jesus – that’s what justification is.
Seiglie’s Evaluation Step, the judgement taking place in Revelations 20, is not the judgement of the Saints.
Savior Jesus is the entire route to salvation, yet the name of Jesus is not found on this UCG chart.
If you have an interest in salvation, look to Jesus, not the Holy Days, and especially not UCG, where Jesus is missing.
Trooisto, Saturday, May 14, 2022 at 3:06:00 AM PDT, gave a lot of valid points to consider and concluded with writing this:
ReplyDelete"...Savior Jesus is the entire route to salvation, yet the name of Jesus is not found on this UCG chart.
If you have an interest in salvation, look to Jesus, not the Holy Days, and especially not UCG, where Jesus is missing..."
Why wasn't Jesus found on that UCG chart, which is about as flawed as the former WCG chart of "The Beast" printed in 1952? Where was/is Jesus? Does Jesus now believe that God the Father, and not Jesus, is the God of the Old Testament? Time is telling.
While one looks for Jesus, I suggest you not overlook another Saviour: God the Father, who just may be "hidden" in the details, and is actually the God of the Old Testament: not Jesus!
1Ti 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the commandment of God our Saviour, and Lord Jesus Christ, [which is] our hope;
1Ti 2:3 For this [is] good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
1Ti 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
Tit 1:3 But hath in due times manifested his word through preaching, which is committed unto me according to the commandment of God our Saviour;
Tit 2:10 Not purloining, but shewing all good fidelity; that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Saviour in all things.
Tit 3:4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
Jude 1:25 To the only wise God our Saviour, [be] glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.
When will those of the world acknowledge the truth of the following verse?
"But to us [there is but] one God, the Father, of whom [are] all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom [are] all things, and we by him." I Cor 8:6
Time will tell...
John
Unfortunately, most of these COGs are progressing up the steps to INSANITY!!
ReplyDeleteAnon, Saturday, May 14, 2022 at 7:29:00 PM PDT, said:
ReplyDelete"...They received the Spirit many days before Pentecost “And when He had said this, He breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit.“ John 20:22
The feasts and appointed times are indeed important but some teachings need revised and studied on further."
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The first member of God's Church was Jesus Christ, and that Church began immediately after He was baptized and He received God's Spirit to remain on Him:
"And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy [[Spirit]]." John 1:33
Who were the next members? Just 10 disciples? When Jesus spoke in John 20:22 Judas and Thomas were not available.
The word "receive" is the 2nd Aorist tense and may be past, present or future tense. Oftentimes context will tell you which tense applies, although most of the time the translators made it a past tense.
It appears that Jesus was telling the disciples what was coming ahead in their future, and they were filled with that Spirit on Pentecost, which is not some "birthday" of God's Church. The Church began with Jesus Christ. More members were added by God the Father on the day of Pentecost.
And if we cannot know with 100% accuracy, then...
Time will tell...
John
When the disciples received the ‘private’ indwelling of the Holy Spirit before the start of the ‘tabernacle’ dispensation of the New Covenant, this was following the precedent of the ‘private’ indwelling of the Glory of the Lord before the start of both the ‘tabernacle’ and ‘temple’ dispensations of the Old Covenant.
ReplyDeleteAc 2:4 All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit... (NIV).
2Co 6:16 ... for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Pentecost with the ‘public’ indwelling of the Holy Spirit [i.e., Christ’s Spirit, cp. Gal 4:6] also follows the Old Covenant pattern:
Non-Public Dwelling ‘Tabernacle’ Dispensation of OC
Ex 40:21a And he [Moses] brought the ark into the tabernacle
Ex 40:34 Then a cloud covered the tent of the congregation, and the glory of the LORD filled the tabernacle.
Ex 40:35 And Moses was not able to enter into the tent of the congregation, because the cloud abode thereon, and the glory of the LORD filled the tabernacle.
Official-Public Dwelling
Lev 8:31 And Moses said unto Aaron and to his sons...
Lev 8:33 And ye shall not go out of the door of the tabernacle of the congregation in seven days, until the days of your consecration be at an end: for seven days shall he consecrate you.
Lev 9:1 And it came to pass on the eighth day...
"The eight day (9:1) is the first day of a new week. It signals a new beginning..." (Derek Tidball, The Message of Leviticus, BST, p.122).
Lev 9:23 And Moses and Aaron went into the tabernacle of the congregation, and came out, and blessed the people: and the glory of the LORD appeared unto all the people.
Lev 9:24 And there came a fire out from before the LORD, and consumed upon the altar the burnt offering and the fat: which when all THE PEOPLE SAW, they shouted, and fell on their faces.
Non-Public Dwelling ‘Temple’ Dispensation of the OC
2Ch 5:7a And the priests brought in the ark of the covenant of the LORD unto his place,
2Ch 5:11 And it came to pass, when the priests were come out of the holy place...
2Ch 5:13 ... when they lifted up their voice with the trumpets and cymbals and instruments of music, and praised the LORD, saying, For he is good; for his mercy endureth for ever: that then the house was filled with a cloud, even the house of the LORD;
2Ch 5:14 So that the priests could not stand to minister by reason of the cloud: for the glory of the LORD had filled the house of God.
Moses brought the Ark into the tabernacle (Ex 40:21) - priests brought the ark into temple (2 Ch 5:7) - the cloud /glory of the Lord filled the tabernacle and temple and both Moses and priests unable to enter.
Official-Public Dwelling
2Ch 7:1 Now when Solomon had made an end of praying, the fire came down from heaven, and consumed the burnt offering and the sacrifices; and the glory of the LORD filled the house.
2Ch 7:2 And the priests could not enter into the house of the LORD, because the glory of the LORD had filled the LORD'S house.
2Ch 7:3 And when all THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL SAW how the fire came down, and the glory of the LORD upon the house, they bowed themselves with their faces to the ground upon the pavement, and worshipped, and praised the LORD, saying, For he is good; for his mercy endureth for ever.
"Divine approval that rested on the temple services and Solomon's prayer of dedication in particular was shown by "fire" that "came down from heaven" on the altar. It was in the same way that God had inaugurated the sacrificial services at the Mosaic tabernacle (Lev 9:22)...
"Now all the people also saw "the glory of he LORD above the temple," which constituted a greater manifestation of what had already been revealed to the priests inside (5:13-14)..." (J. Barton Payne, 1,2 Chronicles, EBC, Vol.4, p.463).