Damage Control (Part 2)
“Whispering”
The following text was inserted into The Restored Church of God Announcements Bulletin for the Sabbath of August 20, 2022. This has been recycled over the years when the time was ripe for a reminder about “big bad meanie people” who leave and then leave garbage at the front gate of the Campus.
“Those Who Leave and Whisper”: On occasion—no doubt for the rest of the age—and for a variety of reasons, people will leave the Church. A few of these, upset or disgruntled, and ignoring natural bounds and protocol, will violate your trust and contact you via email, telephone, social media, or even post mail to voice criticisms, generally having to do with the way “things are done”—or “taught”—by Headquarters, the ministry or Mr. Pack. The obvious purpose, in order to justify and strengthen their position, is to get you to join them. Of course, misery loves company—and seeks validation. Bear in mind that by remaining in contact with those who leave, we blunt the sting of God’s natural correction (in the form of no fellowship), intended to teach lessons that may save their eternal life. Doing so also helps them in their effort to divide or injure the Church. It also opens you to dangerous influence. In such cases, politely, but firmly, inform the sender that no contact is desired.
In August 2003, Mr. Pack gave a sermon titled “Those Who Leave…and Whisper.” He explained that, because of many unique circumstances in this age, we only rarely disfellowship or mark those who leave and attack Restored with lies and distortions. In effect, when they do this (leave and whisper, thereby sowing division), they disfellowship themselves—it is up to the “brethren” to “mark” them (Rom. 16:17-18)—and they invariably do. This and several other related sermons, such as “Unity Binds the Church,” should be reviewed by those who may be confused when some, for whatever reason, “go out from us because they are not of us” (I John 2:19).
I know you did read all of that. But I did.
Seeing this with the new eyes given to me when I joined Club Antichrist causes me to notice a few key phrases.
“…will violate your trust and contact you…”
This implies that when someone leaves, you TRUST they will not reach out to you. When I was a member, I never assumed such a thing. The people who leave that you care about are your friends and…you care about them.
Departing from RCG and contacting a friend still attending is not some kind of unspoken mutually-understood contract breach. I wanted to know if someone left. I do remember severing connections with some to obey that protocol. When I left, I took no offense when friends dropped off my Facebook list or stopped texting me back. I did it to others when I was “on board” and expected some to do that as well.
The wording "violate your trust" implies victimhood. You are wronged if someone contacts you. That angle would be laughable if it were not sad at the same time.
“…those who leave and attack Restored with lies and distortions.”
I breathed a sigh of relief when I read this because it is not talking about me. I do not need lies to expose what David C. Pack and the enablers at The Restored Church of God are doing. The truth is damaging enough.
If I am lying or distorting, then I request that Bradford G. Schleifer or Edward L. Winkfield, or Kenneth M. Orel please reach out to me and let me know where I did this. You would be doing me a great service because I do not see it. My intent is to be as honest as possible while presenting an analysis that is accurate and fair. The nicknames are all done in “fun” and without malice.
Or if there is some therapist out there that can diagnose me as bitter, angry, resentful, or vengeful, please contact me because I am as calm as a Hindu cow when it comes to what I report about RCG.
I looked up the word “distort” to see how that could apply here.
distort
1. pull or twist out of shape
2. give a misleading or false account or impression of
3. change the form of (an electrical signal or sound wave) during transmission, amplification, or other processing
Again, I was able to wipe the sweat from my brow because what I have said in interviews and written publicly is neither "misleading" nor giving a "false account or impression of.”
The great irony is that David C. Pack is the one who “pulls or twists out of shape” the Bible he claims to revere as God’s word. His endless sermon series demonstrates his penchant for creating “misleading or false account or impression of” prophetic understanding.
Does one need to go beyond the “not-really-a-50-day-count to Trumpets” as an example?
To the “ministers” inside The Restored Church of God: Did I just lie or distort?
If I could personally do #3 on that list, I would be making way too much money to be sitting here at my computer thinking up fun ways to pull Dave’s pigtails on the playground.
“Those Who Leave…and Whisper.”
I do not think I could categorize what Kevin Denee and I have been doing as “whispering.” We are doing just a little bit more than that.
For those just tuning in, Kevin Denee was an evangelist and the son-in-law of David C. Pack who left RCG with his wife in 2016. He recently participated in Dr. Tricia Jenkin’s podcast, “Worldwide: The Unchosen Church,” featured in Episode 6.
Dawn Blue of WCTV's "How It's Done" based in Wadsworth, Ohio has been conducting a series of interviews regarding my experiences with The Restored Church of God.
So far, we have done five interviews focusing on RCG and three with Dennis Diehl focusing on the topic of cults.
Her full list of WCTV videos can be found HERE.
RCG Interview Part 1 https://youtu.be/tSbHDqGWnMc
Cults Interview Part 1 https://youtu.be/_pHGaZNDorQ
On another topic, we will not have to wait another full 12 days before David C. Pack unfinishes the series. This was posted in Member Services:
Greetings Brethren!
We trust everyone had a profitable Sabbath.
Mr. Pack plans to deliver a message of similar length to Part 387 early in the week.
No doubt, just a few small “clarifications” regarding why nothing happened at the beginning of the 40-day count to Trumpets this past Tuesday.
The world may still be falling apart, but at least we have Part 388 to look forward to.
Marc Cebrian
It's often been said that most people can count their real friends on the fingers of one hand. There is another general rule that most people are in regular contact with about 200 people. Presumably, nearly 195 of these people are acquaintances, and not friends.
ReplyDeleteOver the years, I've read laments from those who left an Armstrong group to the effect that when they left, they lost all of their friends. My own perspective was that most of the people I met in the church were not even the types with whom I would normally hang out. I probably would have avoided them or distanced myself from them, but tolerated them simply because we were all "in the church". And of course, statistically, most of the people who left were normally people whom I would also have avoided. And, I say this as a person who has always had a wide variety of interests, and can usually find a way to relate to a wide variety of people.
I believe that if most people think this through, they will realize that my assessment is quite correct. There is no need to become depressed over losing friends when you leave, because most of them were simply people you happened to see on a regular basis. They were not your friends. Unless you are some sort of social misfit, you just construct another network and go on with life. Frankly, the beginnings of that network are already present in your life. They are the people at work, your family, and your neighbors whom you held at arms length because of your membership in an Armstrong church.
1.07 PM
DeleteToo many people put the label "friend" on those that are really an acquaintance. It's a common mistake. Oftentimes it's no big deal, but they find out the hard way when they go on holidays with their "friend," ie. the mask drops off, or if some pressure is put on the relationship.
I came to the conclusion that most of my church friends were "fare weather friends "
Dave, you know that Jesus taught plainly how the sheep hear their Master's voice.
ReplyDeleteIf RCG sheep hear Marc more clearly than they hear you. that's a rather powerful indictment. Marc admits that he is confused, that he doesn't have all the answers. If Marc's message is more clear and more welcome than yours, we can be certain that you aren't speaking for Jesus Christ.
There are horse whisperers. There are dog whisperers. Apparently Marc is a better sheep whisperer than Dave will ever be.
"........ a profitable Sabbath".
ReplyDelete$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Winnail's and Pack's "profitable" seems somewhat askew, should be ......a restful sabbath.
Marc doesn't need to have "all the answers" in order to have one very important answer: DAVE IS A FRAUD.
ReplyDeleteAhhh yes….!!! More from Dave “cowbell”
ReplyDeletePack
The cogs are so thin sliced! Few members know what is going on in the other COGs. But, shouldn’t they know, if they believe those in the other COGs are still brethren? Granted some groups don’t view those in other groups as brethren, but Cogwa and Ucg are thought to be of the more balanced in the COG world (only true in that world), so why don’t they care enough to know what’s going on in other groups. Even the members of Cogwa, Ucg, Lcg have basically turned their backs on one another though members within a different organization may well be in their same neighborhood.
ReplyDeleteOf course there are exceptions but such mingling is not encouraged and generally does not occur.
How does this conform to loving one another of the brethren? Well, it doesn’t. Unless you really don’t consider them brethren. Or, you tell yourself it’s just not convenient or it’s awkward…but, neither of those excuses get you back into conforming to the scripture for Christ’s disciples being recognized as loving one another.
Again, how thin sliced these organizations and their members are!
They concern themselves only with their little enclaves while still talking about unity. They are the antithesis of unity.
These members of various organizations can claim what they want, but they are conformed to the world of convenience of separation of ambivalence (i.e. conformed to the world). Their actions tell the tale.
Your assessment leaves out that there were levels of character in the old WWCG. This is affirmed in tbe parable of the talents. Everyone was under the same tent, but beneath the surface there was tension between members of different classes. A bricklayer does not typically mix well with a college graduate. And it's the bricklayer type that has a Cain versus Abel attitude to some degree towards the college graduate. The church splintered according to these differences on HWAs death. I don't believe that this is a bad thing and be labelled unloving. The bible does say to be equally yoked.
Delete"Jim's" comments are completely incorrect. Assuming much but knowing nothing.
DeleteBlessed like no others.
ReplyDelete******************
They [the multitude of Armstrongist splinters] concern themselves only with their little enclaves while still talking about unity. They are the antithesis of unity.
******************
Well, of course. It’s built in to the Armstrongist mindset.
Salvation is achieved, ever so barely, only by dutifully and precisely behaving and thinking exactly as instructed by each splinter’s top pastor. Whomever he is, he’s the only authority on doctrine, practice, and belief. A member’s life and salvation depend utterly on complete belief and adherence to that man’s pronouncements.
So, with a multitude of Armstrongist churches, each with a master pastor, only one church can actually be right — the one a believer belongs to. All of the others have salvation-negating errors; not unlike the heresies in mainline Christian churches. To be saved, gotta stay with the truth one knows. Everyone else is in error. My guy’s got it. Our group is the one and only True Church; the only one that has properly descended from Herbert W Armstrong. He had no sins or doctrinal errors. Today, we’re The Church.
And our guy tells us that Deuteronomy 18:22 is the one scripture that never applies to Herbert Armstrong or our head pastor. That’s such a relief!
"If the prophet speaks in the Lord’s name but his prediction does not happen or come true, you will know that the Lord did not give that message. That prophet has spoken without my authority and need not be feared."
The Whisperers are NOT the problem.
ReplyDeleteThe problem is the ranting, raving, yelling, spitting, lying, stealing types like klepto-Dave Pack-of-lies.
Notice how they word it, "by Headquarters, the ministry or Mr. Pack". There is no "or". DCP is the leader of the pack at HQ, without the Heading of the Savior watching over the flock. Pack does not meet the qualifications stated in Titus 1 or anywhere else.
ReplyDeleteHe is NOT blameless, not sober, not just, not holy, not temperate. He is selfwilled, soon angry, given to wine, striker, for filthy lucre, etc. (so much more)
Tit 1:11
Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake.
Now we can see it's hurting his profitable Saturday's.
"Whose mouths must be stopped....."
ReplyDelete********
Whoa! The scripture indicates this is possible??? How shall we stop his mouth?
Yes, Anon 8:48,
ReplyDeleteIt is seemingly obvious, and the "unity" comment does seem tired due to the obviousness. I was trying to point out that, when asked, members from cogs like ucg/cogwa generally accept that some members from other cog organizations are part of the "real" Christians, but they generally do not associate with one another or think much about one another. This makes one question their concern for those they might call brethren. Their actions suggest a desire to appease the leaders of their individual group and associate with those that agree on everything including which almost identical organization to associate with. Very thin sliced.
Dave is a menace to decent, honest, hard working people. His throat is an open sepulcher, his palaces are full of dead men's bones and his followers are lost sheep without a shepherd.
ReplyDeleteWhoa! The scripture indicates this is possible??? How shall we stop his mouth?
ReplyDeleteMonday, August 22, 2022 at 7:02:00 PM PDT
God Will Stop his mouth and it will a spectacular event!
Wait and See...
ReplyDeleteThe word ‘synagogue’ is 4864 in Strongs and literally means ‘church, assembly or
congregation’, while the word ‘Satan’ is 4567 and means ‘the accuser, the devil, Satan’.
Therefore, the term “Synagogue G4864 of Satan G4567 ”literally means “church, assembly or congregation G4864” of “Satan the devil G4567”. The “synagogue of Satan” refers to a group of people who are with in the Church of God, whether wittingly or unwittingly, worship adulate God's truth, otherwise they wouldn’t be his congregation! What God is telling us through the title of ‘synagogue of Satan’ that this group is made up of individuals who have been adulterated by Satan’s doctrines and have 25 Ministers that have turned there back on God's truth. (25 ministers in RCG)
These people are a group (RCG) deceived by Satan the devil that pretend, profess, or even masquerade themselves to be God’s people and are not. To one degree or another, they come under the influence and worship of Satan (Rev. 2:9; 3:9). These people are liars because they profess to be Jews or followers of God but are not. They once taught God's truth, but have twisted the truth to suit their own vanity. Because of this, God calls these people a ‘blasphemous’ people (Rev. 2:9). God will judge RCG...
“Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are
Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship
before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee” (Rev. 3:9).