Exposing the underbelly of Armstrongism in all of its wacky glory! Nothing you read here is made up. What you read here is the up to date face of Herbert W Armstrong's legacy. It's the gritty and dirty behind the scenes look at Armstrongism as you have never seen it before!
With all the new crazy self-appointed Chief Overseers, Apostles, Prophets, Pharisees, legalists, and outright liars leading various Churches of God today, it is important to hold these agents of deception accountable.
Herbert Armstrong's Tangled Web of Corrupt Leaders
It's missing the one type of question all surveys are supposed to have nowadays (some have only this one): "How likely are you to recommend UCG to others?"
That's fantastic! I've often encouraged my pastor to do just that, and he has a few times through the years. If the things I say or do correctly, or the things I say or do that are wrong, can help others I'm all for it.
But if a person leaves for a right reason and in the sermon it gets twisted into something justifying themselves, there’s always that. But good for you if your experience has been nothing but positives with that. Just know that another side exists.
The feedback that I think is worth conveying can't be adequately represented by various ratings on a scale of "completely disagree" to "completely agree". The really meaningful stuff must go in an "any other comments" box on the last screen.
At least UCG is asking these questions. Where will it lead though? Will members think about such questions regarding how much Doctrine, Christian living, and/or prophecy should be taught and maybe begin wondering, what is the point of more than a very little bit of prophesy as the COGs have thus far been very wrong. Will this make them see that prophecy is too much a part of Doctrine? Most that have been associated with Armstrongism's take on the tribulation are becoming fewer in number as we die off and surely we recognize that that portion of prophecy is irrelevant to most outside the "very last days". The holy days are the preferred vehicle for prophecy. They have become the very essence of Christian living and doctrine in some of the COGs such as cogwa and ucg. This is the focus in addition to the Sabbath. It's very strange. But, in the case of cogwa, they claim (in print) you cannot be called without an understanding of their meaning of the holy days.
So, their doctrine is largely holy days and sabbath, their Christian living is mostly keep the holy days and sabbath with those of like mind, and well the holy days are their framework for prophecy.
It is the most vapid form of Christianity out there it seems, very little consideration of Christ's actions in our lives.
Why not just forget about all these nonsensical surveys, and go to a totally free market approach.
The membership should elect a board, and the board should decide once a year whether or not to renew the contract for the minister. The SDA church uses this technique as do many other churches.
Also, have the minister make a certain percentage of the locally kept offerings. Lower performance equals lower pay. In the current COG system, with centralized collected, non accountable pay, these kind of surveys hold no teeth, and will result in no real change or revamps.
I go to church that does this. It works out pretty well. The pastor is an employee of the local congregation, not of the organization. Every 2 to 4 years (I don’t remember exactly how often) The congregation votes on whether to keep him as pastor or not. I will say that the few weeks surrounding voting time are really hard on the pastor emotionally. For that reason, once a year seems excessive to me.
Rating: They are all insane and clueless mofos. The breakout splinter, the real or true successor, blessed above all others and doing a great work, has never emerged from the junkyard of Armstrongism. Unbeknownst to them, collectively they have presided over the emasculation and failure of what HWA started. There is no Phoenix rising from the ashes of this farce.
AnonymousTuesday, September 20, 2022 at 7:45:00 AM PDT Rating: They are all insane and clueless mofos. The breakout splinter, the real or true successor, blessed above all others and doing a great work, has never emerged from the junkyard of Armstrongism. Unbeknownst to them, collectively they have presided over the emasculation and failure of what HWA started. There is no Phoenix rising from the ashes of this farce ====== The clearest summation and most accurate observation of it all I have ever read on Banned
There are many in UCG, as well as the other cogs, that are not happy with their particular cog to one degree or another. USG home office knows this and is conducting these polls to gain insight for why. It's good they are trying, but I don't think it will help much as the problem is that their theology is off, but at least UCG discusses Christ more than most cogs, I believe.
The church has conducted similar polls in the past of the membership. A lot no longer respond to these polls because the church never listens to us. They have their own agenda already preset before these polls come out. They are just testing the waters to see if they can do what they want to do. If there is a lot of negative feedback then they shelve their plans for a year or so later.
Coming from LCG, I find it to be a good thing that UCG has an avenue for Feedback. I am no longer a member of the COGs, but this is encouragingly liberal.
For me, coming from LCG, from what I was told re: UCG I was expecting tattooed trinitarian heathens, so was disappointed at how similar it was doctrinally.
10:20 wrote "The church has conducted similar polls in the past of the membership. A lot no longer respond to these polls because the church never listens to us."
Amen to that! Many that I know will not respond to these surveys. They never listen to us and never have. It is all a politically correct smoke screen. Other COG's see this and wish their group did this, but it really does us no good. It is almost like they hold regular members in contempt and beneath them.
Netflix, Good Music, Cold Beer, Hanging with friends > Going to a COG to hear the same thing ad nauseum
Do you enjoy going to services? Does hearing that you're special and chosen, while hearing everyone else is deceived set you apart? If you could be anywhere on a Sabbath or holy day would you choose to attend a rented hall hearing how your congregation of 40 is going to shape the world?
This survey is all window dressing busy work for UCG HQ personnel which will be of no consequence nor bare any fruit. True Armstrongites, if they truly believed Herbert Armstrong's words that is, would believe that Matthew 24:14 was completed by Mr. Armstrong and would be waiting for the End to come. No need for Church surveys as the Work was completed with Mr. Armstrong.
Of course, there was a World Tomorrow Telecast presented by Mr. Armstrong in the early 1980s where he said, "If you don't see these things coming to pass in the next 10 to 15 years, you will know the truth was not with me".
Richard, My first thought was that it would be good to find that clip from the world tomorrow, but there are so many ways cog members would excuse/explain it away.
For me, coming from LCG, from what I was told re: UCG I was expecting tattooed trinitarian heathens, so was disappointed at how similar it was doctrinally.
LCG has always been afraid of, and jealous of, UCG. Going back to 1995, when Rod Meredith was leading GCG, he was all positioned to gain the majority of people that were about to leave WCG. He took Global into debt, buying TV time, knowing that the huge numbers that would soon join him would pay back the debt. Meredith saw himself as the successor to HWA. But then Indianapolis happened, and hardly anyone went with Meredith. The propaganda that was common in GCG (and then LCG) was that UCG wasn't doing a work (because they weren't on TV). I've seen LCG elders baffled that UCG's magazine had much larger circulation than LCG's, "How do they get so many subscribers when they aren't even doing a work?". Well, UCG actually was doing a work, spending as much money as LCG (albeit a smaller percentage of their income). UCG was continually called "Laodicean, not serious, not doing a work, a holding area" while LCG was where the work was really being done. Rod was afraid that if the LCG members took a honest look at UCG, many would leave, thus the necessity of anti-UCG propaganda. In 2010, Rod Meredith publicly called for a church-wide fast to petition God to destroy all the other churches of God so all the faithful people could join Meredith, ostensibly to do "a great work". The bottom line is that UCG had a better ministry, a more honest ministry, better publications, fewer brainwashed members, better doctrines, better congregations, better youth programs, and an outstanding doctrinal repository. In the end, both groups are failing because the old pastor-over-the-congregation style of organization is obsolete.
Tuesday, September 20, 2022 at 4:41:00 AM PDT Anonymous said... It's missing the one type of question all surveys are supposed to have nowadays (some have only this one): "How likely are you to recommend UCG to others?"
You are wrong....There are a total of 61 questions in this thing and only a portion was posted to this site.
Your "missing" question is #58. And what is interesting is that all of the other questions allows you to not respond and move on to the next one. #58 is required to be answered....
It's missing the one type of question all surveys are supposed to have nowadays (some have only this one): "How likely are you to recommend UCG to others?"
ReplyDeleteI wouldn't recommend UCG to my worst enemy.
DeleteAnything I say or do could be used in a sermon!
ReplyDeleteThat's fantastic! I've often encouraged my pastor to do just that, and he has a few times through the years. If the things I say or do correctly, or the things I say or do that are wrong, can help others I'm all for it.
But if a person leaves for a right reason and in the sermon it gets twisted into something justifying themselves, there’s always that. But good for you if your experience has been nothing but positives with that. Just know that another side exists.
DeleteThe feedback that I think is worth conveying can't be adequately represented by various ratings on a scale of "completely disagree" to "completely agree". The really meaningful stuff must go in an "any other comments" box on the last screen.
ReplyDeleteAt least UCG is asking these questions. Where will it lead though? Will members think about such questions regarding how much Doctrine, Christian living, and/or prophecy should be taught and maybe begin wondering, what is the point of more than a very little bit of prophesy as the COGs have thus far been very wrong. Will this make them see that prophecy is too much a part of Doctrine? Most that have been associated with Armstrongism's take on the tribulation are becoming fewer in number as we die off and surely we recognize that that portion of prophecy is irrelevant to most outside the "very last days".
ReplyDeleteThe holy days are the preferred vehicle for prophecy. They have become the very essence of Christian living and doctrine in some of the COGs such as cogwa and ucg. This is the focus in addition to the Sabbath. It's very strange. But, in the case of cogwa, they claim (in print) you cannot be called without an understanding of their meaning of the holy days.
So, their doctrine is largely holy days and sabbath, their Christian living is mostly keep the holy days and sabbath with those of like mind, and well the holy days are their framework for prophecy.
It is the most vapid form of Christianity out there it seems, very little consideration of Christ's actions in our lives.
Why not just forget about all these nonsensical surveys, and go to a totally free market approach.
ReplyDeleteThe membership should elect a board, and the board should decide once a year whether or not to renew the contract for the minister. The SDA church uses this technique as do many other churches.
Also, have the minister make a certain percentage of the locally kept offerings. Lower performance equals lower pay. In the current COG system, with centralized collected, non accountable pay, these kind of surveys hold no teeth, and will result in no real change or revamps.
Did you think the wouldn't be another survey 'Tonto' ? How foolish of you.
DeleteWhat you describe would result in complete chaos, corruption and apostasy.
I go to church that does this. It works out pretty well. The pastor is an employee of the local congregation, not of the organization. Every 2 to 4 years (I don’t remember exactly how often) The congregation votes on whether to keep him as pastor or not.
DeleteI will say that the few weeks surrounding voting time are really hard on the pastor emotionally. For that reason, once a year seems excessive to me.
That seems a bit too carnal for a church. Evidence being stress on the pastor during the voting season.
DeleteWould be a disaster of biblical proportions 'Tonto'. Cronyism would be rife.
DeleteRating: They are all insane and clueless mofos. The breakout splinter, the real or true successor, blessed above all others and doing a great work, has never emerged from the junkyard of Armstrongism. Unbeknownst to them, collectively they have presided over the emasculation and failure of what HWA started. There is no Phoenix rising from the ashes of this farce.
ReplyDeleteIt is absolutely disgusting that UCG members are giving this blog information! They are seeking to undermine the church and should leave.
ReplyDeleteIs that why you come to this blog, to warn them all from coming here??
DeleteWhy assume it's UCG lowly members 9:41??? More likely to NOT be the members....
DeleteAnonymousTuesday, September 20, 2022 at 7:45:00 AM PDT
ReplyDeleteRating: They are all insane and clueless mofos. The breakout splinter, the real or true successor, blessed above all others and doing a great work, has never emerged from the junkyard of Armstrongism. Unbeknownst to them, collectively they have presided over the emasculation and failure of what HWA started. There is no Phoenix rising from the ashes of this farce
======
The clearest summation and most accurate observation of it all I have ever read on Banned
9:41,
ReplyDeleteThere are many in UCG, as well as the other cogs, that are not happy with their particular cog to one degree or another. USG home office knows this and is conducting these polls to gain insight for why. It's good they are trying, but I don't think it will help much as the problem is that their theology is off, but at least UCG discusses Christ more than most cogs, I believe.
The church has conducted similar polls in the past of the membership. A lot no longer respond to these polls because the church never listens to us. They have their own agenda already preset before these polls come out. They are just testing the waters to see if they can do what they want to do. If there is a lot of negative feedback then they shelve their plans for a year or so later.
ReplyDeleteUCG members could reverse the decline by taking in 'migrants' from AZ,TX.
ReplyDeleteSince Cincinnati is a sanctuary city, this would be a win-win.
Anonymous at 9:29 AM said...“I wouldn't recommend UCG to my worst enemy.”
ReplyDeleteToo late for me. Some of my worst enemies already go to the UCG. What a bunch of godless perverts!
Coming from LCG, I find it to be a good thing that UCG has an avenue for Feedback. I am no longer a member of the COGs, but this is encouragingly liberal.
ReplyDeleteFor me, coming from LCG, from what I was told re: UCG I was expecting tattooed trinitarian heathens, so was disappointed at how similar it was doctrinally.
Delete10:20 wrote
ReplyDelete"The church has conducted similar polls in the past of the membership. A lot no longer respond to these polls because the church never listens to us."
Amen to that! Many that I know will not respond to these surveys. They never listen to us and never have. It is all a politically correct smoke screen. Other COG's see this and wish their group did this, but it really does us no good. It is almost like they hold regular members in contempt and beneath them.
Netflix, Good Music, Cold Beer, Hanging with friends > Going to a COG to hear the same thing ad nauseum
ReplyDeleteDo you enjoy going to services? Does hearing that you're special and chosen, while hearing everyone else is deceived set you apart? If you could be anywhere on a Sabbath or holy day would you choose to attend a rented hall hearing how your congregation of 40 is going to shape the world?
When it comes to church, I'd prefer not to.
This survey is all window dressing busy work for UCG HQ personnel which will be of no consequence nor bare any fruit. True Armstrongites, if they truly believed Herbert Armstrong's words that is, would believe that Matthew 24:14 was completed by Mr. Armstrong and would be waiting for the End to come. No need for Church surveys as the Work was completed with Mr. Armstrong.
ReplyDeleteOf course, there was a World Tomorrow Telecast presented by Mr. Armstrong in the early 1980s where he said, "If you don't see these things coming to pass in the next 10 to 15 years, you will know the truth was not with me".
Richard
Wishful thinking.
DeleteRichard,
ReplyDeleteMy first thought was that it would be good to find that clip from the world tomorrow, but there are so many ways cog members would excuse/explain it away.
For me, coming from LCG, from what I was told re: UCG I was expecting tattooed trinitarian heathens, so was disappointed at how similar it was doctrinally.
ReplyDeleteLCG has always been afraid of, and jealous of, UCG. Going back to 1995, when Rod Meredith was leading GCG, he was all positioned to gain the majority of people that were about to leave WCG. He took Global into debt, buying TV time, knowing that the huge numbers that would soon join him would pay back the debt. Meredith saw himself as the successor to HWA. But then Indianapolis happened, and hardly anyone went with Meredith. The propaganda that was common in GCG (and then LCG) was that UCG wasn't doing a work (because they weren't on TV). I've seen LCG elders baffled that UCG's magazine had much larger circulation than LCG's, "How do they get so many subscribers when they aren't even doing a work?". Well, UCG actually was doing a work, spending as much money as LCG (albeit a smaller percentage of their income). UCG was continually called "Laodicean, not serious, not doing a work, a holding area" while LCG was where the work was really being done. Rod was afraid that if the LCG members took a honest look at UCG, many would leave, thus the necessity of anti-UCG propaganda. In 2010, Rod Meredith publicly called for a church-wide fast to petition God to destroy all the other churches of God so all the faithful people could join Meredith, ostensibly to do "a great work". The bottom line is that UCG had a better ministry, a more honest ministry, better publications, fewer brainwashed members, better doctrines, better congregations, better youth programs, and an outstanding doctrinal repository. In the end, both groups are failing because the old pastor-over-the-congregation style of organization is obsolete.
Tuesday, September 20, 2022 at 4:41:00 AM PDT Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteIt's missing the one type of question all surveys are supposed to have nowadays (some have only this one): "How likely are you to recommend UCG to others?"
You are wrong....There are a total of 61 questions in this thing and only a portion was posted to this site.
Your "missing" question is #58. And what is interesting is that all of the other questions allows you to not respond and move on to the next one. #58 is required to be answered....