Anyone who has spent any length of time in the Worldwide Church of God and in most of the splinter groups knows very little about the Book of Galatians because the church has never discussed those books at length or in depth. The focus has always been on the law and Galatians is a book of freedom. Nothing ticks off COG leaders more than having members who know they are free. Actually, they do not have members who know they are free because those that know have already left!
When you do hear a COG minister discussing Galatians it is always to say that it was mistranslated by evil men over the centuries to invalidate the law. The COG needs the law to function properly. Galatians is a big bitch slap across the face to most of them. Galatians invalidate almost all COG leaders as apostate preachers.
Our tiniest little prophet got his hands and arms in a major flap-fest the other day when he chose to write about the mistranslation of the Bible as he sees it.
The Great Beto Bwana Thiel writes:
Since Jesus and the Apostles kept the Sabbaths and the Holy Days, why do most who profess Christ not observe them?
While social pressure, tradition, and twisted interpretation of scripture all play a role, one role that is overlooked by many is the fact that there are a few passages in the New Testament that have often been intentionally mistranslated.
YES, INTENTIONALLY MISTRANSLATED!
The actual fact of the matter is, COG leaders have INTENTIONALLY MISTRANSLATED Galatians to fit their sophomoric Bible interpretations.
Beto Bob then says this:
Sadly, because of tradition and a lack of real love for the truth, most people who profess Christ do not care.
Seriously, how incredibly stupid can this guy be? Saying things like this demonstrates how Biblically illiterate the man is. He has never had any REAL theological education in his entire life. Taking a few courses here and there, getting a mail-order degree from an Indian "university", reading COG booklets, and groveling at Rod Meredith's feet for a decade or so does not make one a Bible scholar.
Beto Bob is also ticked off at the translators of the book of Colossians As that book also condemns the Juadiazers who demanded followers of Christ should be keeping the law, COG leaders like Beto Bob meltdown over this and claim it is a mistranslation:
Beto Bob has determined how it SHOULD be written, in order to justify his bastardization of the law to fit his legalistic existence:
Therefore, if all the translators were simply consistent with themselves, they would have translated Colossians 2:16-17 to state:
16 Therefore let NO MAN JUDGE YOU in eating and drinking or in respect of a festival or of an observance of the new moon or of a sabbath; 17 for those things are a shadow of the things to come, BUT THE BODY OF CHRIST.
Or in other words, do not let those outside the body of Christ (the church, Colossians 1:18) judge you regarding holy days, but only the church itself. Colossians 2:16-17 is not saying that the holy days are done away.
It is sad, but most in the Protestant and Catholic worlds have misunderstood Colossians 2:16-17 because translators who know better MISTRANSLATED it.
Believing and relying on mistranslations instead of the actual word of God is consistent with loving and practicing a lie. True Christians would not want to do that.
True Christians would NEVER believe or follow self-appointed apostates like Bob Thiel, Dave Pack, or Gerald Flurry. To do so means you are relying on their mistranslations of the Bible and their own interpretations, including dreams and visions from various creatures that infect their minds.
Why would anyone want to remain shackled to the law when freedom is so precious and joyful?
You and many others twist and pervert the meaning of the writings in Colossians. In doing so you make the book contradict the rest of the bible. You desperately want to find something in the bible to support your dislike of God's law because you don't want to obey Him. There are many verses in the bible that can be twisted to mean what you want, so you, and many others, do just that.
ReplyDeleteYour day is coming.
That was rather merciless. As if some of Paul’s letters aren’t difficult to understand (as even Peter admitted it was) and people are just “desperately” trying to find reasons to disobey Him. You don’t think an honest person can come to the conclusion that many have come to about those verses in Colossians, even if it may not ultimately be right? But no, your understanding on it is spot on and those interpreting otherwise are purposefully misreading it. No wonder people want little to do with those who think like you concerning those verses and the law. I mean look at those fruits from just your comment alone, which also seems to be the prevailing attitude of those with your point of view. Short of grace, understanding, sympathy and compassion for others. Just straight up, “Your day will come” not because they’ve murdered or committed adultery, or defrauded their brother, but because of the way they interpreted Colossians. Wow.
Delete
ReplyDeleteThis is one of the best and most useful posts ever presented on Banned.
After my husband and I left WCG, we would sit on our couch reading the epistles, especially Galatians, and we were DUMBFOUNDED at the realization that Galatians had been used to teach the keeping of the law in WCG, when it really said the 180-degree opposite, that we were free from the law in Jesus Christ.
We kept exclaiming, "look at THIS verse" or "look at THAT verse!" We were so overcome by the beauty of the TRUTH that we were FINALLY SEEING as our eyes were opened and the veil was removed, and we saw FAITH and the GRACE of GOD, that we went to a nearby church and got re-baptized.
Galatians, like Romans, is NOT anti-law but anti-legalism and anti-justification by law over faith.
ReplyDeleteAll Christian religions subscribe to some version of law and order because, unlike such cities like Chicago and New Orleans demonstrate, you have no freedom without it! All churches have their own requirements, sacraments, rituals, commandments of men, calendar of days, months, times, and years (Gal. 4:10), etc. which is one of the reasons we have according to some sources, 41,000 Christian denominations and multiple COG splinter groups! Unity of faith is not as cut and dry you try to make it out to be.
The law of God is holy, just and good (Rom. 7:12, 1 Tim.1:8) but it can be misused when substituted for the work of Christ! Thank God for the book of Galatians!!
HWA would write the "other Gospel" of which Paul warned the Galatians was the "Gospel about Jesus" not the "Gospel of Jesus".
ReplyDeleteDigging much deeper, how the Galatians fell for "the other Gospel" had to do with "ritual conversion" - do these things, practice the Oral Law as well as the Torah, pay Temple Tax, ... get physically circumcised, and baptized. And then you are a "born again" Jew, not a Gentile! You get a new name and a new identity - legally, you can even marry your sister if you so desire! You can go into any Synagogue, and even the Temple in Jerusalem.
The circumcision step put a lot of Gentiles off -- but they did think this was a great idea. Paul didn't.
GTA has three videos dissecting the Book of Galatians and explaining the error taught by the apostates. So the book has been thoroughly reviewed and taught correctly within the Church of God.
ReplyDeleteIntentional mistranslating, or simply attempting to explain by a translator who misunderstands? BUT..Bob has missed the big, big MIStranslation: is the word "feasts" in Lev 23:2. The word is translated from the Hebrew moed which should be properly translated fixed, or, appointed times. Still, why is the mistranslation so dire? Because there are only three feasts, listed in Ex 23:14-16 and that word "feasts" is from the Hebrew chag, or, chagag. Which means the holy days are three feasts and annual sabbaths, and all are fixed or appointed times but not all are feasts.
ReplyDeleteThe holy days are: 3 feasts: days of unleavened bread-Nisan 14-20; Pentecost; feast of ingathering-Tishri 15-21, and, the annual sabbaths of Tishri 1, 10, and 22. In the Hebrew Tishri 1 is never called the "Feast of Trumpets"; Tishri 10 is never called a feast (obviously!); Tishri 22 is never called a feast.
Nisan 14 is the first day of UB and a holy day? The subject is vast; I'm not going to discuss here but just say: there's no way Israel left Egypt the same day they held a holy convocation and did not work except to eat. What is the feast on the 15th? The NTBMO.
ReplyDelete1 Timothy 1:8-11
8 But we know that the Law is good, if one uses it lawfully, 9 REALIZING THE FACT THAT THE LAW IS NOT MADE FOR A RIGHTEOUS PERSON, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers 10 and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching, 11 according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, with which I have been entrusted.
Deliberate mistranslation would not be as common as translation bias. A simple example of bias is the Greek word kai, which can be rendered and or but - so inclusiveness (and) can be deliberated changed the contrast (but).
ReplyDeleteIn the case of paraphrasing, that can be as wild as anything. The NLT sometimes renders "Sabbath" as "The Lord's Day".
The sage Avram Heschel wrote the Septuagint has the misfortune of translating Torah (instruction) as nomous (law). When nomous is translated as Law, you must check the context: is it meant to mean Torah, Oral Law, natural law, government law, ... No wonder reading "law" can be confusing. And remember Peter wrote that Paul's words are easy to misunderstand.
GTA was no more a Bible scholar than Bob Thiel is. Neither should be used as a source for biblical understanding.
ReplyDeleteThe die hard legalists will never, ever know the freedom that is in Christ. They can't. The veil of Moses covers their eyes and hearts.
ReplyDeleteGood luck on your judgment day. Unless you keep that law perfectly, you are in trouble. Any of you sinless? Gotta be to pass muster! Not so for those of us in Christ.
Why do you think Paul wrote, "Oh, you foolish Galatians". Fools, these prophlet Bob acolytes. Bob is the CEO of fools!
The British Israel Church of God has published a nearly 200 page book entitled "The Saving Works of God" which in great detail refutes the arguments used to justify law breaking. So the Church is not at all running away from these scriptures. Just the opposite.
ReplyDeleteMark, we have a new covenant with new laws. The old has vanished, because it became obsolete when Christ shed blood initiated a new and better covenant that forgave sins permanently. That annulled the Levitical priesthood because Jesus's sacrifice was perfect. And if the old priesthood vanished, so did the rest of the law. The Mosaic code was a unified system of law. Everything was linked together. If one part of the law was done away with, the rest of it had to go away too. Read II Cor. 3:6-18 and Heb. 8:13. And then read the whole Epistle To The Hebrews. The Mosaic law was annulled in 33 AD. and the system was rendered kaput in 70 AD. There's no way you can keep any part of it, because you don't have the Levitical priesthood, the sacrifices, or the temple.
DeleteAs for the British-Israel teaching, please do some reading about Jewish and European genetics. There's absolutely no proof genetically that the modern Europeans are descendants of the so-called lost ten tribes.
Thank you for this! This is spot on. I honestly can not remember any minister ever preaching on Galatians during the many years I was a church member. Sure they quoted a few verses here and there, but they stayed away from those verses establishing freedom in Christ. One of the many things that took me out of the church was its backward view of grace. The church totally missed the mark in understanding grace.
ReplyDeleteThanks for the videos too. They are so simple that the average member could understand them if they only took the veil of the law off their eyes.
Something similar happened to me when I sat down and read the New Testament en masse. Though I did not go on to Christianity, it was striking how much WCG had danced around the points in those epistles.
DeleteI have seen you use the word 'bastardization" here before describing how COG leaders misuse theBible.
ReplyDeleteBob Thiel is the king of bastardization of the Bible for his own purposes.
The very fact that your church uses the words "British Israel" as part of its name shows a complete lack of understanding of what Christ did and accomplished.
ReplyDelete"There is no longer Jew or Gentile, slave or free, male and female. For you are all one in Christ Jesus."
British Israel is useless and will be totally ignored in the Kingdom of God.
The only time my minister would go to Galatians would be 1) to quote Dr Meredith and his favourite scripture Galatians 2:20, or 2) to take it out and context to try to prove the catholic doctrine that the "church" (leadership) is jerusalem above.
DeleteThe Church of God International doesn't understand a Christian's relationship to the Law either:
ReplyDeletehttps://godcannotbecontained.blogspot.com/
British Israel Church of God? First time hearing about them here on Banned. Who leads them?
ReplyDeleteYears ago Bob did a series of sermons on Galatians, just like GTA. GTA was, without question, a far, far better and more organized speaker than Bob could dream to be. But both made typical mistakes and misinterpretations.
ReplyDeleteRon Dart also had a series on Galatians, and his interpretation was closer to following scripture at face value. Ron was also a great speaker; more natural and down to earth than GTA.
Cant help giggling at Bobs assertion that the problematic word is "is".
ReplyDelete"It depends on what the definition of "is" is..."
I still say that if Jesus Himself appeared to most Coglodytes and explained Galatians to them, they would take the word of Herbert W. Armstrong instead. Beliefs are usually things one chooses because they resonate with and compliment one's core personality on a deep down soul level. Truth doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the process.
ReplyDeleteReading through the comments really drives home the truth of John 6:44.
ReplyDeleteI hope you’ve read this: “Do not be haughty, but fear” (Romans 11:20).
DeleteThe only part of Galatians HWA liked was "I want you to know, brothers and sisters,that the gospel I preached is not of human origin. 12 I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ."
ReplyDeleteI was going to ask you re: WCG admin's position on this from those days.
Delete@ Thursday, September 15, 2022 at 4:25:00 AM PDT
ReplyDeleteThat's why there is a resurrection after the millennium.
Well, maybe. But the way I look at it, which I think is Biblical, is the Old Covenant rituals and first coming of Christ were fulfilled with Christ's sacrifice, but that was only the inauguration of redemption. The consummation of redemption comes with the 2nd Advent, which has not yet occurred.
ReplyDeleteFor example the Old Covenant sin offering were deposited into the sanctuary but needed a yearly Day of Atonement cleansing for the sins to be permanently removed, symbolically. The Day of Atonement antitypical meaning represents the removal of sin permanently from the heavenly sanctuary where the remembrance of all of the forgiven sins still remain at the 2nd Advent.
So if the Mosaic Law was annulled, as you say, then why do we still have sin, which is the transgression of the law, still around that needs a permanent cleansing.
I think there is continuity from Old to New Covenants with a new meaning and manner of observance and application until the consummation of redemption is finalized.
Hi Mark, as we know, in life it is hard to get 100 per cent agreement, as is obvious from reading this blog.
ReplyDeleteI basically disagree, allowing for ancient Near Eastern methods of argument - such as "relative/rhetorical negation" - with everything Phinnpoy has written in his first paragraph.
Jer 33:20 Thus saith the LORD; if ye can break my covenant of the day, and my covenant of the night, and that there should not be day and night in their season;
Jer 33:21 Then may also my covenant be broken ... with the Levites the priests, my ministers.
Reading Hebrews in isolation to the rest of the Bible is proof-texting at its worst.
Heb 9:13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
Lev 4:35b and the priest shall make an atonement for his sin that he hath committed, and it shall be forgiven him.
Sacrifices in the theocracy of Israel, in both the OC and soon in NC are efficacious in regards to the "purifying of the flesh" - not for purifying the conscience (Heb 9:14). But they were also for fellowship - God/priests/people sharing in the well-being offering.
Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them..
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts...
The problem of the OC was not with the law but with the people.
Dt 30:3 That then the LORD thy God ... will return and gather thee from all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath scattered thee.
Something had to change concerning the people to break the cycle of sin and exile.
Dt 30:6 And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.
Eze 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
So God promised, as part of the OC, that there would come a time when God would renew the covenant with Israel in which God would circumcise the heart of the people by putting His spirit in them so they could keep the law.
Ro 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Basically, under the OC, it was the law without the Spirit; and under NC it is the law with the Spirit.
Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in heavenly places.
The lesson of the first part of the Church Administration of the NC - the ‘Sarah' dispensation - that even with God's spirit, as the church letters of Revelation suggests, it is not enough in itself. Satan and the demons have to be cast out of the heavenly places and replaced with Christ and the Saints.
Rev 7:15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
But this is the first step. Not only does Christ and the Saints have to rule the earth from the heavenlies they have to exercise a heavenly priesthood. (In Hebrews heaven equals the Most Holy Place].
Jer 33:15 In those days, and at that time...
Jer 33:16 In those days... Jerusalem shall dwell safely (AV).
Jer 33:18a And for the priests, the Levites, there will not be cut off [karat] an individual before me making whole offering rise... (John Goldingay).
Eze 44:23 And they [the levitical priests] shall teach my people the difference between the holy and profane, and cause them to discern between the unclean and the clean. (AV).
For the success of the Kingdom Administration of the NC - the ‘Keturah' dispensation - there is a need for the Levitical priesthood on earth and a priesthood of the order of Melchisedec in heaven.
I'm confused about the accusations that the church danced around Galatians and Colossians? I never had a problem finding sound explanations by church teachers! Ron Dart, David Antion, and even Samuel Bacchiocchi produced many detailed articles and sermons explaining difficult terms like
ReplyDeletedead to the law
under the law
delivered from the law
role of the law
bound by the law
end of the law
curse of the law
the schoolmaster law
justified by the law
deeds and works of the law.
Protestant teachers lump all these terms together then summarize by saying the law has been done away then present it in a 10 minute video. So WHO is explaining WHAT? They also contradict themselves by saying Galatians and Colossians do away with the Sabbath and holydays --BUT, to justify Sunday observance, Romans 14 allows us to observe any days we want! Pure Babylonian confusion!!
You’re confusion is confusing. What he described in the post is indeed the current state of the Church unfortunately.
DeleteMarc, the heavenly sanctuary isn'ta storage where the remembrance of forgiven sins are kepy till the 2th coming.That's taught nowhere in the New Testament. That idea sounds suspiciously like the 7TH Day Adventist idea of the investigative judgement.
ReplyDeleteThe Mosaic law was annulled. Please read and reread Hebrews and II Cor 3:6-18 without your biased assumptions. And sin was in the world before Moses. Read Genesis.
Anon, you're reading all those Old Covenant Scriptures through the veil. As a result, you're lacking in understanding of the New Covenant. If you read the entire New Testament, there's no mention of any restoration of the Levitical priesthood in the Gospels, Acts, or the Epistles. In Hebrews, the author makes it abundantly clear the Old Covenant is about to vanish (Heb. 8:13) And since Jesus was the perfect sacrifice, the Levitical priesthood became obsolete. Any Scriptures in the Old Covenant that imply a continuous Levitical priesthood must be seen in the light of the New Testament. 0
ReplyDeleteWe definitely can agree on certain important things:
ReplyDelete1. Sin is a problem with God and something humanity has a problem with. We can not be reconciled with guy without dealing with the sin issue.
2. Sin, not only is the transgression of the law, it is a transgression to how God thinks and acts. A transgression on the Law He lives by.
3. The "Mosaic Law" is actually the Law of God, given to us by the God of the Old Testament, Jesus Christ.
4. The Old Testament way of dealing with the sin issue is to transfer the sin of the individual to a spotless animal. Kill the animal and sprinkle the animals blood in the earthly sanctuary. Or if that could not be done, have the flesh of the animal eaten by a Levitical Priest within the sanctuary, thereby transferring the sin to the Sanctuary.
5. The collective sins of the entire sanctuary was cleansed, permanently, on the Day of Atonement, for all of Israel.
6. The God of the Old Testament, Christ, became a perfect, living sacrifice for us when He came into the world and was crucified.
7. So, we now, can come directly to Christ and repent, ask for forgiveness of sins without slaughtering animals and sprinkling blood in the sanctuary or using the Levitical Priesthood as human intermediaries for individual sin forgiveness.
But, now what occurs within the Heavenly Abode of God and Christ after this sin has been transferred? Does it just go away as completely forgiven right after we profess the sins?
That seems to be where the disagreement lies.
It seems to me that all of this points to a corresponding activity within the Heavenly Sanctuary. Just as the confessed and forgiven sins of the Israelites were transferred
into the sanctuary where they remained until their final disposition on Day of
Atonement, so the confessed and forgiven sins of believers today are recorded
in the heavenly books where they remain until their final disposition on the
Day of Christ’s coming.
So, based on that understanding, which I would admit has some biases into it because I can't grasp that the Bible was simply blown up after Christ's sacrifice, I believe it is still important to reflect on, in a new spiritual way, many of the Old Testament laws which illuminate God's character and mind.
Hi Mark,
ReplyDeleteYou write:
“Or if that could not be done, have the flesh of the animal eaten by a Levitical Priest within the sanctuary, thereby transferring the sin to the Sanctuary.”
In regard to the Scriptures below:
Lev 6:30 But any sin offering [hatta't] whose blood is brought into the Tent of Meeting to make atonement in the Holy Place must not be eaten; it must be BURNED. (NIV).
Lev 10:17 Wherefore have ye not EATEN the sin offering [hatta't] in the holy place, seeing it is most holy, and God hath given it you to bear the iniquity of the congregation, to make atonement for them before the LORD?
Do you see any equivalence between ‘burning’ and ‘eating’ of the flesh?
Lev 6:16 Aaron and his sons shall eat the rest of it, but it is to be eaten without yeast IN A HOLY PLACE; they are to eat it IN THE COURTYARD OF THE TENT OF MEETING.
Also, I would suggest that when a person lays his hand on his sacrifice he transfers his sin to the offering - cp. Lev 16:21 where Aaron uses both hands in transferring sins. In regard to ‘eating,’ how does the ritual transfer the sin to the ‘sanctuary’ work?
(I don’t believe that it does. I would suggest that there is a functional equivalence with ‘eating’, ‘burning’, and ‘sending’ (Lev 16:10b).
In the case of the ‘eaten’ sin offering the blood of the offering is applied to the horns of the altar of burnt offering; do you see an equivalence in function with the blood of the “burned” hatta’t applied to the horns of the altar of incense?
I would like to hear some more on your second last paragraph.
As an side:
Heb 9:3 Behind the second curtain was a room called the Most Holy Place,
Heb 9:4 which had the golden altar of incense and the gold-covered ark of the covenant.
It appears that the author of Hebrews misunderstood this feature of the law of Moses, as the altar of incense was in front of the curtain, in the Holy Place.