LCG is encouraging its members to "watch and be ready", but they have been doing this since the late 1990's and earlier when they were all members of the Worldwide Church of God. They imagine themselves as the final word of prophecy and we have all seen how well that has worked out over the decades.
This also throws them in direct competition with Bob Thiel since he claims to be the sole informed prophet of the church who knows true prophecy and the exact time to flee to Petra, Pella, or some other hell hole he will decide upon at the spur of the moment before Jordan refuses his little group entry into their country. Can you imagine 8,000 Africans showing up at Jordan's border demanding to be let in because Bob Thiel told them to go there?
Today's COG leaders, Flurry, Pack, Weinland, Thiel, and Weston all believe they are the final word on prophecy and yet, not one single thing any of them have said over the decades has ever come true.
Watch and Be Ready! Jesus told His disciples to watch for the fulfillment of Bible prophecies that indicate the end of the age and His second coming are near (Matthew 24:42–44). These prophecies also reveal that many will be surprised because they don’t understand the prophetic significance of world events they see in the news. God has given His Church a “more sure word of prophecy” so His Church can function as a watchman to warn His chosen people and the world (2 Peter 1:19–20 KJV). The moral decay and declining influence of the Israelite nations (Leviticus 26:14–19; Deuteronomy 31:29), the resurgence of militant Islam (Daniel 11:40), and the movement toward a united Europe (Revelation 17:12–13) promoted by an ecumenically oriented papacy (Isaiah 47:8; Revelation 17:1–5)—all point to end- time events outlined in Bible prophecies. As we see these prophecies come together, we need to draw closer to God and continue to watch world events so we will not be surprised when Christ returns (1 Thessalonians 5:1–6).
Have a profitable Sabbath, Douglas S. Winnail
A wise man is thrifty and saves his money knowing that emergencies are part of life. But, only a fool would ride his bicycle in the shower!.
ReplyDeleteThe lesson is yes! Watch what's going on around you. As the T-shirt says: Sh;t Happens. But, don't tie that in to Armstrongism, or allow yourself to be manipulated by HWA's franchisees. That would make you just as reckless as the dude riding his bicycle in the shower!
At least they aren't setting absolute dates of the return coming sometime next week. Like David Pack seems to do most every week.
ReplyDeleteThe Armstrong-Doomsday-Cult has been teasing with imminent apocalypse since 1934, going on a century now.
ReplyDeleteLCG started in 1992.
ReplyDelete
ReplyDeleteWinnail wrote: “God has given His Church a “more sure word of prophecy…”
LCG rejects Jesus as the fulfilment of prophecy while LCG’s version of the “the more sure word of prophecy” is heavy on invading hordes of Germans and the Lost Tribes of Israel being countries of Western Europe.
However, it takes little effort, just a will to search, to conclude that Germans and the Lost Tribes of Israel are definitely not mentioned in the Bible.
Therefore, what Winnail considers to be the “more sure word of prophecy” is not biblical – LCG prophecy, it’s essential doctrines, come from books such as US and Britain in Prophecy and the Mystery of the Ages.
This reliance on books outside of the Bible to form it’s core beliefs is one completely sure identification of LCG being a cult.
The hearts of LCG are enraptured with the German and Lost Tribe myths told earlier by HWA, while sadly, their recorded history demonstrates they’ve paid almost no attention to grace, justification, and redemption – the saving work of Savior Jesus.
Prayer for the people of LCG:
Holy God: give the people of the LCG hearts ablaze with passion for Jesus.
Turn their attention to the saving work you are doing today; protect them from non-biblical fables that put salvation off as a distant event that requires belief in, and works toward, spreading prophesies about Germans and Western Europeans.
Let Jesus be exalted in their hearts as the fulfillment of the law and the prophets; help them to seek the face of Jesus, to know his gifts of grace and righteousness – to be enthralled with these gifts, more than itching for non-biblical prophesy distractions that high-jack their time and love away from you.
May our Lord Jesus Christ who loves with grace give these people eternal encouragement and good hope (2 Thessalonians 2:16) that will replace their fears and preoccupation with fables.
May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with the people of LCG (2 Corinthians 13:14) – AMEN!
Doug Winnail is known for mangling Holy Scripture and misapplying verses to suit his propaganda agenda.
ReplyDeleteWinnail wrote: “God has given His Church a “more sure word of prophecy” so His Church can function as a watchman to warn His chosen people and the world (2 Peter 1:19–20 KJV ).”
Winnail deceptively lifted the words “more sure word of prophecy” to apply to LCG’s brand of prophecy – while circumventing the intention of this chapter, which is summed up in verse 16: we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Winnail indoctrinates his people and preaches to gain new converts with the LCG interpretation of prophecy – claiming no one else has knowledge of this prophecy, despite verse 20 warning against private interpretation.
Winnail has recently spoken of how HWA’s book 1975 in Prophesy was important to leading him into the “truth”.
That HWA booklet should be read by everyone in a COG, today.
HWA stated he was writing the booklet under the authority of God – yet none of the things he predicted happened.
Winnail, and the rest of COGdom, claim that HWA was correct in what he wrote, he was just off with stating the date of 1975.
1975 in Prophecy is an easy/quick read to demonstrate that the prophesies in that booklet, the same prophecies continually preached by the COGs today – are not found in the Bible and are therefore a private interpretation that did not come from the infallible God.
I'm eagerly awaiting LCG publishing their new book on Germany - Winnail has mentioned that it is coming, but has not stated its release date yet.
This new book will be vaunted as "preaching the Gospel" and "warning the Israelite nations" - regardless of how God did not care to identify the Germans or Western Europeans in the Bible.
It’s fascinating to focus on Winnail’s “function as a watchman to warn” portion of his statement “God has given His Church a “more sure word of prophecy” so His Church can function as a watchman to warn His chosen people and the world (2 Peter 1:19–20 KJV).
ReplyDeleteLCG believes that they have this great mission to warn people about the coming tribulation; however, they don’t seem to have any useful message for all the people that are currently at the end of their lives.
Christians have a message of hope in salvation through Jesus that they preach to the strong, as well as to those who are on their deathbed.
If you introduce to a Christian, a person who has not put their faith in Jesus, and only has a few days to live, a Christian is eager to tell them that Jesus offers salvation to them today – that is a very sure word of prophecy to the world.
On the other hand, LCG has absolutely nothing to offer the person on their deathbed; LCG would not waste their time telling the dying about Jesus.
LCG would not offer hope in Jesus to the dying because, in LCG doctrine, if the person is dying before they would have time to read and accept all the LCG prophesies or “truths”, keep the sabbath, give up bacon, and shun Christmas – then this dying person is obviously not being called by God.
Accepting Jesus as Savior is not valuable in the eyes of LCG; LCG doctrine is centered around adherents being “converted” by believing and practicing what the LCG preaches.
Thereby, LCG believes in salvation by works – not salvation by grace (despite some distorted claims of LCG loyalists).
LCG believes they are offering hope to a dying world, yet they refuse to offer hope to a dying person today.
LCG’s denial of Jesus as the all-sufficient Savior and rejection of his free gift of salvation is surely not what the dying world or your dying neighbor need.
Anonymous 10:52
ReplyDeleteGCG started in 1992, but LCG started in 1998
There is indeed "prophecy" in the Bible. Its purpose is NOT to somehow be a soothsayer and be able to predict events. The late Ron Dart was right in saying that its purpose is not "fortune telling" , but as a mechanism to lead you to always repent and believe, and to show that God is in control of everything.
ReplyDeleteDoug writes:
ReplyDelete"God has given His Church a "more sure word of prophecy" so His Church can function as a watchman to warn His chosen people and the world (2 Peter 1:19–20 KJV)."
"Prooftexting ... is the practice of using isolated, out-of-context quotations from a document to establish a proposition in eisegesis. Such quotes may not accurately reflect the original intent of the author, and a document quoted in such a manner, when read as a whole, may not support the proposition for which it was cited" (Wikipedia).
Below is a look at 2 Peter 1:19 as it relates to the context and interpretation:
2Pe 1:16 For we did not follow cleverly devised myths when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty.
2Pe 1:17 For when he received honor and glory from God the Father, and the voice was borne to him by the Majestic Glory, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased,”
2Pe 1:18 we ourselves heard this very voice borne from heaven, for we were with him on the holy mountain.
2Pe 1:19 And we have the prophetic word more fully confirmed, to which you will do well to pay attention...
“Peter’s second witness are the prophets, or specifically the word of the prophets, which was a standard way of referring to the Old Testament” (Dick Lucas & Christopher Green, The Message of 2 Peter & Jude, BST, p.80).
Richard Bauckham notes that “Justin, Dial. 129.1, makes it especially clear that the term ["the prophetic word"] is virtually synonymous with “Scripture.” This equivalence came about because in the current Jewish understanding all inspired Scripture was prophecy” (Jude, 2 Peter, WBC, p.224).
2 Pe 1:19 Because of that experience, we have even greater confidence in the message proclaimed by the prophets. (NLT).
2 Pe 1:19 And we have the more certain prophetic word, to which you do well taking heed... (BLB).
“This section is surrounded by exegetical difficulties, and even comparing Bible translations will reveal the two greatest problems...
“The word translated made in verse 19 is not present in the Greek, which reads literally, ‘and we have more certain the prophetic word’. What has to be decided is whether the word of the prophets has been made more certain by the transfiguration in verse 16-18, which is the NIV’s understanding, or whether the Old Testament is more certain than the transfiguration. The NEB, for example, says, ‘All this only confirms to us the message of the prophets.’
“The difference is important: Peter is saying either that the New Testament message needs the stronger support which the Old Testament provides, or that the Old Testament points to Christ’s second coming but that the promise has been underlined by the transfiguration. On the whole, despite the weight of tradition, the latter seems stronger in its context (see below), and most modern scholars support the NIV’s interpretation. Calvin’s balanced comment is wise: ‘The authority of the Word of God is the same as it was in the beginning, and then it was given further confirmation than before by the advent of Christ’ (Calvin, (Peter), p.340]” (Dick Lucas & Christopher Green, The Message of 2 Peter & Jude, BST, p.80).
Peter Green argues for the first position:
"19. From personal eyewitness testimony Peter now turns to ‘the prophetic word'... The Jews always preferred prophecy to the voice from heaven. Indeed they regarded the latter, the bath qol, ‘daughter of the voice', as an inferior substitute for revelation, since the days of prophecy had ceased. And as for the apostles, it is hard to overemphasize their regard for the Old Testament. One of the most powerful arguments for the truth of Christianity was the argument from prophecy (see the speeches in Acts, Rom 15; 1 Pet 2, or the whole of Heb. or Rev.).
Part 2
ReplyDelete“In the word of God written, they sought absolute assurance, like their Master, for whom ‘it is written' sufficed to clinch an argument... [Peter] is saying, ‘If you don't believe me, go to the Scriptures'. ‘The question', says Calvin, ‘is not whether the prophets are more trustworthy than the gospel.' It is simply that ‘since the Jews were in no doubt that everything that the prophets taught came from God, it is no wonder that Peter says that their word is more sure'...
2Pe 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
2Pe 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
"In the preceding paragraph, Peter is not talking about interpretation but authentication. His theme is the origin and reliability of the teaching about grace, holiness and heaven. The same God whom the apostles heard speak in the transfiguration spoke also through the prophets. The argument in verse 20-21 is a consistent and indeed necessary to the preceding paragraph. Thus, we can rely on the apostolic account of the transfiguration because God spoke. The prophets did not make up what they wrote... true prophecy came from God and, men as they were, the prophets were carried along by the Holy Spirit.
"Peter, then, is talking about the divine origin of Scripture, not about its proper interpretation...
"It should now be apparent that Peter has been replying to two charges by the false teachers. To their contention that the apostles were purveying myths about Jesus, his power and coming, Peter says ‘Not so: we were with him at the transfiguration. We were eyewitnesses.' He then adduces the Old Testament as a witness which is even more unimpeachable than the apostles themselves, and should be common coin both to the sectaries and the orthodox. But they respond by rejecting the authority of the Old Testament, denying its divine origin, and saying that the prophets simply produced their own ideas. So Peter strongly reasserts the conviction, common to Jews, Jesus and Christian alike, that the Old Testament has indeed a divine origin, and when the prophets spoke the prophecies recorded in Scripture they were men in touch with God who acted as his spokesmen..." (Michael Green, 2 Peter and Jude, TNTC, pp.107-09 & 112-13).
Douglas Moo supports the second position:
"(3) What does Peter mean with the comparative "made more sure"? "Sure" translates a Greek word (bebaios) that refers to the certainty and reliability of promises and agreements (see, e.g., Rom 4:16; Heb 6:16, 19). Peter may be saying, then, that the Old Testament prophecies are an even more certain basis for belief in the Parousia than eyewitness testimony about the Transfiguration. But the Greek probably cannot bear this meaning. We think, rather that Peter is suggesting that his testimony about the Transfiguration gives the prophetic word an even greater certainty than it had before. The prophets predicted that Messiah would establish a universal and glorious reign... The Transfiguration, an anticipation of Christ's ultimate kingdom glory, shows that the words of the prophets, at this point at least, must be taken with full literal force. The Christians can be even more confident of their fulfillment.
"Confidence in the reliability of the prophetic word should lead to a firm adherence to its teachings. Consequently, Peter urges his readers to "pay attention to it, as to a light shining in a dark place...
"It is this as yet unfilled aspect of the day that Peter here picks up. He wants his readers to pay attention to the prophetic word "until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts"..." (Douglas Moo, 2 Peter, Jude, NIVAC, pp.75-76).
Part 3
ReplyDelete“Peter's experience on the hilltop confirmed all the Old Testament prophecies about Jesus Christ and made Peter look forward to Christ's return. He is now convinced that we apostles have the word of the prophets made more certain. That had been his testimony on the day of Pentecost, in his subsequent teaching and in his first letter. He is not replacing the Old Testament with his experience, for chapter 2 depends on the Old Testament; but neither is he putting the Old Testament in a different league from his experience, which would undermine his whole case that it was God who spoke on the hilltop. Rather, he is saying that God has spoken again, confirming what he said before and giving a partial fulfilment of it, increasing Peter's expectation of the next stage in God's plan. He had seen how the prophets had spoken not just about a glorious king, but about a suffering king; and as a witness to the suffering, he had become even more certain about the glory.
"The right reaction, then, is to go back to the Old Testament as a matter of priority and to pay attention to it. Peter gives us two reasons for reading the Old Testament..." (Dick Lucas & Christopher Green, The Message of 2 Peter & Jude, BST, pp.81-82).
Richard Bauckham plays down the comparative:
2 Pet 1:19 Moreover, we place very firm reliance [bebaioteron] on the prophetic word... (Richard J. Bauckham, WBC).
"The best sense of the whole passage 1:16-19 is that the apostles based their eschatological message on (a) their own eyewitness testimony (vv 16-18), and (b) OT prophecies (v 19)... [when] the apostles preached the Parousia, they were not following myths. On the contrary, they had reliable authorities for their message: the Transfiguration, which they witnessed, and the OT, which is inspired by God" (Richard J. Bauckham, Jude, 2 Peter, WBC, pp.224-225).
"... the translation: "we have the prophetic word made more sure" (RSV). However, this is not a very natural meaning of the Greek.... In this phrase the comparative bebaioteron is used either as a true comparative... or, as often in the Koine, with superlative (elative) meaning ("very firm".). It is best to adopt the latter sense here... No comparison need be intended (Richard J. Bauckham, Jude, 2 Peter, WBC, p.223).
Bauckham argues that if the true comparative was intended "we should expect v 19 to begin with some more explicit connection with the preceding passage, such as "thus" or "therefore," rather than simply kai ("and")" (Jude, 2 Peter, WBC, p.224).
Douglas Winnail, a scattered and fleeing hireling from the former WCG organization, in his short paragraph wishes to enlighten his followers (and all of us????) about such things as: Jesus' "...second coming...The moral decay and declining influence of the Israelite nations...the resurgence of militant Islam...a united Europe...an ecumenically oriented papacy...see these prophecies come together..."
ReplyDeleteMost of us have heard about these ideas for decades, expecting them to happen in 2-5 years (pick your own numbers), but why does Doug want us to continue to read and pay attention to him and his written thoughts? Why? His words:
"...so we will not be surprised when Christ returns..."
******
Douglas, driven by another spirit (James 4:5), will surely be surprised, b/c while he awaits for his very soon to return another Jesus to establish some kingdom on earth for 1,000 years with Jerusalem headquarters, which is virtually destroyed when Satan exits the pit.
Why so much focus on something that is sure to fail? Is Douglas that blind? He must be, especially when Doug does not acknowledge that the Jesus Christ of the Bible returned to earth for a second time, a real "second coming," and then at the end of 40 days returned to be at His Father's right hand in Heaven.
So, among other things, it appears that Doug can't even properly count Jesus' comings. If that 40 day period is somehow insignificant enough not to consider it in the count, then what is Doug talking about when he writes about some "near" second coming?
What might Jeremiah say about the likes of Doug Winnail, Bob Thiel, Weinland, Dave Pack, Flurry, etc. if he were alive today?
"The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means; and my people love [to have it] so: and what will ye do in the end thereof?" Jer 5:31
Huh?
"Behold, I [am] against them that prophesy false dreams, saith the LORD, and do tell them, and cause my people to err by their lies, and by their lightness; yet I sent them not, nor commanded them: therefore they shall not profit this people at all, saith the LORD." Jer 23:32
So, will Doug continue to repeat his false words, or could he be another day closer to being really surprised with some genuine repentance/change (which only God grants/gives b/c repentance is nothing of self to somehow impress God and/or one's own works to look like salvation is being earned), and begin to teach the truth for a change?
Time will tell...
John
Tonto, Thursday, January 5, 2023 at 8:44:00 AM PST, wrote:
ReplyDelete"...There is indeed "prophecy" in the Bible. Its purpose is NOT to somehow be a soothsayer and be able to predict events. The late Ron Dart was right in saying that its purpose is not "fortune telling" , but as a mechanism to lead you to always repent and believe, and to show that God is in control of everything."
******
Was that "Dart" intended for Doug Winnail? And/or, Bob Thiel? And/or, Dave Pack...? Weston, Franks, Shabi, Flurry, Weinland..........?
Yes, it may apply to all of them, and so many others. I was reminded of some of Isaiah prophetic words:
Isaiah 14:24 "The LORD of hosts hath sworn, saying, Surely as I have thought, so shall it come to pass; and as I have purposed, [so] shall it stand:
25 That I will break the Assyrian in my land, and upon my mountains tread him under foot: then shall his yoke depart from off them, and his burden depart from off their shoulders.
26 This [is] the purpose that is purposed upon the whole earth: and this [is] the hand that is stretched out upon all the nations.
27 For the LORD of hosts hath purposed, and who shall disannul [it]? and his hand [is] stretched out, and who shall turn it back?"
It appears that this LORD of hosts, who is not the Word or Jesus Christ, does a lot more than "influence" things.
How far would a Doug Winnail get if he strived to tell this LORD of hosts that Jesus Christ has yet to experience a "second coming?" Would a Doug Winnail accuse Jesus Christ of having lied to us about His comings, and then strive to call this LORD of hosts a liar too?
Will a Doug Winnail disannul the words of both the LORD of hosts and Jesus Christ?
Time will tell...
John
John, January 5, 2023, writes:
ReplyDelete“Doug does not acknowledge that the Jesus Christ of the Bible returned to earth for a SECOND TIME, a real "second coming," and then at the end of 40 days returned to be at His Father's right hand in Heaven.”
My response:
John, you say Christ “returned a second time” - (“returned” is past tense).
But your interpretation is not the Bible’s interpretation, that is, that is not how the author of Hebrews sees it. Christ’s appearing a “second time” is yet future:
Heb 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for [apekdechomai] him shall he appear [optomai, future tense] the second time without sin unto salvation.
2Th 2:1b ... the coming [parousia] of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
Doug follows, as do the commentators, the sense/convention of the author of Hebrews. Christ’s second coming is yet future.
“What will happen a second time is his appearance, but this time it will be “apart from sin” that is, his second appearance will not be to deal with since that work was done once for all. Rather, the Second Coming (that this is a reference to the parousia is clear) will be for the consummation of salvation for those who eagerly awaiting his coming. Verse 28b could be translated, “He will be seen by those eagerly expecting him for salvation”.... The writer may here be returning to the image of the Day of Atonement ritual. While all the worshipers waited outside, the high priest entered the Most Holy Place to sprinkle blood on the mercy seat, in the very presence of God. Will the high priest reappear, or is to audacious for any person to approach God? The people eagerly await his “second coming” (Fred B. Craddock, The Letters to the Hebrews, NIB, Vol.12, p.113).
“Christ will come back a second time and then he will not be concerned with sin. The thought is that sin was dealt with finally at his first coming. There is nothing more that he should do. The second time he will come “to bring salvation.” There is a sense in which salvation has been brought about by Christ’s death. But there is another sense in which it will be brought to its consummation when he returns. Nothing is said about unbelievers. At this point the writer is concerned only with those who are Christ’s. They “are waiting for him,” where the verb apekdechomai expresses the eager looking for the Lord’s coming so characteristic of the NT” (Leon Morris, Hebrews, EBC, Vol.12, p.93).
“At this point, the author adds his only explicit reference to the second coming of Christ (though this is alluded to in 10:25, 37): he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him (apekdechomenois, ‘eagerly waiting’ [BDAG; ESV])...” (David G. Peterson, Hebrews, TNTC, p.220).
ReplyDeleteAnon, Thursday, January 5, 2023 at 7:30:00 PM PST, writes:
"...John, you say Christ “returned a second time” - (“returned” is past tense).
But your interpretation is not the Bible’s interpretation, that is, that is not how the author of Hebrews sees it. Christ’s appearing a “second time” is yet future:
Heb 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for [apekdechomai] him shall he appear [optomai, future tense] the second time without sin unto salvation.
2Th 2:1b ... the coming [parousia] of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
Doug follows, as do the commentators, the sense/convention of the author of Hebrews. Christ’s second coming is yet future.
******
Anon, if what you are saying is true, then you, Doug, Craddock, Morris, and Peterson have all gotten on to some corkscrew, like being on a pig's tail, and going off on a tangent with your speculative thinking.
The "second time" Paul mentioned was to some people, who were involved with Jesus Christ a "first time."
To explain the second coming of Jesus Christ having come (yes, past tense) to earth all one needs to do is examine that 40-day period after Christ was murdered, went to Heaven, and returned...by simply looking up the following verses:
John 20:16-23 (similar parallel accounts may be found in: Mark 16:9-20 and Luke 24)
Acts 1:3
I Cor 15:4-6
God has inspired those verses to provide hundreds of witnesses to the fact that Jesus Christ returned to earth a second time for a 40-day period before, again, departing earth and expecting to return with a third coming in the future.
Did Jesus Christ have a second coming to earth that lasted for 40 days?
A Great Last Day is coming when God will resurrect all of these "eye-witnesses," who will testify that indeed Jesus Christ did come to earth for a second time, a second coming lasting for 40 days, but time will tell...
John