LCG continues to get subtle digs in against apostate Bob Thiel and his apostasy. LCG has been pretty effective in keeping its members away from Bob, though he did a pretty good job of that before he was kicked out by his spiritual Daddy, Rod Meredith. Bob thought many LCG members would follow him and none of them did.
Remember boys and girls, as long as you study the approved scriptures and interpretations by LCG leaders then you cannot be led astray.
The problem with the highlighted section below is that they are told to grow in grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, someone who rarely gets discussed until it is close to Passover. Since they refuse to follow the New Covenant and dwell on what was accomplished, they continue to stagnate, much like Bob Thiel and the rest of the COG's.
LCG's admits its mission is to point people to the millennium. That's why Jesus cannot be the focus, as it should be.
Our Challenge to Grow: We are admonished in the Scriptures to “grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ” (2 Peter 3:18). One reason is so that we will not be misled by false teachers. The Apostle Paul encouraged Timothy to diligently study the Scriptures in order to be able to correctly explain the Truth and become a more effective teacher and minister (2 Timothy 2:15–16; 1 Timothy 4:12–15). We are also told that the “work of the ministry” is to help God’s people grow in “the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God” (Ephesians 4:12–14). The Scriptures reveal that Christians are called to become kings, priests, and teachers who will point all human beings to the Truth in the millennium (Revelation 5:10; Isaiah 30:20–21). With this in mind, let’s take advantage of every opportunity to grow in our knowledge and understanding of the Scriptures—through Bible study, listening to sermons, and meditating on what we learn and hear—so that we can prepare to teach God’s way of life to the world.
Have a profitable Sabbath,
Douglas S. Winnail
How ironic! Doug published that same "Our Challenge to Grow" message in January 2009. I guess this means he hasn't grown in 14 years.
ReplyDeleteSome thoughts I penned back in December on my blog:
ReplyDeletehttps://godcannotbecontained.blogspot.com/2022/12/dont-let-anyone-lead-you-away-from-gods.html
And of course unfortunately, by the "truth" he means Armstrongism. Honestly it's a little too late to warn Armstrongites against being deceived by false teachers! It's already happened to them!
ReplyDeleteRoderick C. Meredith COMPETING AGAINST Herbert W. Armstrong
ReplyDeleteSome people turned against Herbert W. Armstrong while HWA was still alive. Many other people appeared to be loyal to HWA while he was still alive but then later turned against HWA after he was dead.
Roderick C. Meredith appeared to be loyal to Herbert W. Armstrong while both of them were still alive. However, after the death of HWA, RCM began to compete against HWA by making what RCM called “doctrinal upgrades” to try to show that he was smarter and more spiritual than HWA. RCM rejected the idea that HWA was the one who had come in the power and spirit of Elijah to “restore all things.” RCM wanted to think that he could make up doctrines too.
To the discerning observer, such things as RCM's two-fold gospel message, marriage supper in heaven, and falling away in the world, do not make RCM appear to be as smart as he thought they would. RCM's Global Church of Rod, and his later (barely) Living Church of Rod, got their members from HWA's Worldwide Church of God. They never got even one-tenth of the WCG people, and they were never able to grow or “shake the nations” like RCM had talked about.
Silly Doug; how can the people of LCG grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ when LCG does not preach about grace or Jesus as a sufficient Savior?
ReplyDelete"..to the Truth in the kingdom."
ReplyDeleteThe expression "The Truth" is used by many cults such as the Jehovah's Witnesses. It's an example of loading the language whereby "The Truth" represents as set of beliefs that are near worshipped and never to be questioned. Those who question The Truth are often expelled from their group.
I also noticed that there's no mention of reading secular books as part of members mental diet. As well as not trusting freedom, the church leaders fear that members might come across ideas that challenge THE TRUTH. So stunting members growth in wisdom and understanding is acceptable in the name of THE TRUTH.
There is nothing wrong with these words per se. What makes this troubling is the context. This is a message delivered in the context of an apocalyptic Millerite cult. Even David Koresh stated ideas that would seem reasonable sometimes. An outside Christian observer would interpret this differently. He might say, "This preacher is advocating that knowledge of heretical belief should increase so that his followers would not turn to the truth of the Gospel."
ReplyDeleteThe Circumcision Party was very influential in the time of Paul. No doubt they talked a good argument. Modern readers sometimes believe the Pharisees of the Circumcision Part were all about circumcision. But they were really about a certain subtext. The subtext was about exalting the law of Moses and diminishing the power of grace in Jesus. If we examine the larger context of this posted statement, we just might find the spirit of the Circumcision Party.
A technical point is that scripture does not speak of the elect becoming kings and priests. It says that the elect will become a kingdom of priests. In other places in the NT the term crown is used to refer to an artifact representing some spiritual good such as "a crown of righteousness." This is not a reference to kingship in the Milennium. Jesus is our King and on earth he wore a crown of thorns. Jesus is called the King of Kings, but this is a reference to his deposing the thrones, principalities and powers of the Cosmos. The Christian elect is in training for the priesthood not kingship. This was all a mistake in translation. And it is unsurprising that HWA would fall victim to this mistranslation because kingship implies hierarchy - something that he was preoccupied with.
They groan in grace and crow in knowledge far as I can tell. Crow and overgum seems the program
ReplyDeleteYou could always listen to teachers like Gerald “newsmax” Weston, or Wally “the 3rd rate right wing twitter troll” Smith.
ReplyDeleteDoug is one of the ones misleading others. The guy is false and his example is false. It's hard to grow when you're stuck in the past. This guy is stuck in the confederate past.
ReplyDeleteLikely to be a long shot, but it would be lovely if a LCG member would be so bold, and honest, to comment on how they’ve learned more about grace on this “atheistic blog” than they have learned from the entirety of their experience with LCG.
ReplyDeleteAlso hoping a certain, UCG member, you know who you are, will comment on the ratio of solid Grace information presented on the blog compared to what’s taught in your true church.
For you other COG members who also dabble in this blog, and are not too interested in the concept of growing in grace - please post any comments that come to mind.
Ephesians 2:8
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God.
7:13 writes:
ReplyDelete"This was all a mistake in translation."
No it isn't; it is an acceptable translation, giving the sense.
Looking at Ex 19:6, the original setting, it is one of four "four defensible Hebrew renderings" (Walter C. Kaiser Jr., Exodus, EBC, Vol.2, p.417).) From a modern-western perspective it especially captures the two future roles of the saints - kings and priests.
Heb 10:11a And every priest standeth [histemi] daily ministering...
Zec 6:13a and he shall ... sit and rule upon his throne
"The Aaronic priests never sat down in the sanctuary; they remained standing throughout the whole performance of their sacred duties" (F.F. Bruce, The Epistle of the Hebrews, Revised, NICNT, p.245).
It may be said that while priests stand and minister, kings sit and rule.
Below are some NT Scriptures that support the kingship of Christ and the Saints:
Lk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
Lk 1:33 And he shall reign [basileuo] over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them ... and they lived and reigned [basileuo] with Christ a thousand years.
2Ti 2:12a If we suffer, we shall also reign with [sumbasileuo] him:
Rev 2:26 And to the one who overcomes and continues in My work until the end, I will give authority [exousia] over the nations. (ESV).
Rev 2:27 And he shall rule [poimaino] them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
Lk 19:17 And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority [exousia] over ten cities.
This article is a fallacy, precisely LCG is a church that follows the new covenant. What happens is that the author of this article lacks the minimum knowledge of what the new covenant is.
ReplyDeleteThe New Covenant is that everything that was physical has remained in the past, even the possibility of being saved is now open to the entire world of every lineage, language and nation.
We have a new priest in heaven who saved us once and for all.
We are the Gentile people now under this covenant we have the opportunity to achieve eternal life.
In this new pact there is equality before God, there is neither slave nor free, neither man nor woman... all of us in Christ have the option of:
* repent
* Live a sinless life by keeping the laws of God (Not the laws of Moses)
We are forgiven by grace, that is to say undeservedly, however we must do our part and keep the commandments as Jesus told the rich young man.
All the commandments are justice, follow the law of food, holy parties, tithes, keep all the law of God and if from time to time we sin unintentionally we go to that high priest who is in heaven and if we genuinely repent receive from his sorry.
That is, in short, living the new covenant.
The new covenant is not a license to sin, it is not an excuse for not keeping the law, the new covenant does not exempt us from repentance.
Author of this article, if you don't know, investigate, if you know, don't lie.
LCG is a church of the new covenant, it is a bulwark and a column of truth, which it is humbly exposing before you.
ReplyDeleteDoug Winnail, who blindly believes he has not been "misled by false teachers" wrote:
"...The Scriptures reveal that Christians are called to become kings, priests, and teachers who will point all human beings to the Truth in the millennium (Revelation 5:10; Isaiah 30:20–21)..."
******
Which false teacher(s) led Doug to write those words, because neither Rev 5:10 nor Isaiah 30:20-21 say anything about some "millennium?"
Weren't we taught that those to become kings/priests are someday to meet Jesus Christ is some clouds? Who is making the journey/trip to the clouds? Jesus, or those potential kings/priests?
HWA used a railroad train analogy to show that it was Jesus meeting people at a train station, and then return to earth? Why would people return to earth? Jesus is already in His environment; the people, unless they are in an airplane or some balloon, are not. The people are making the trip. And wasn't Jesus preparing something where His Father was located?
So, for Doug, when do these kings/priests return to earth for some millennium?
Truth is they won't be returning to reign on earth for Doug's millennium. Now, Rev 5:10 is true, but that verse is about a time after Satan is loosed from the bottomless pit.
Yes, lots of misled people run to quote Rev 20:6; however, that verse applies to a different time from that of Rev 5:10. To link both verses together, like pieces of some jigsaw puzzle, leads one backward to become snared (2 Tim 2:26), broken and taken (Isaih 28:13). Been there, done that, seen that, but Doug? Time is telliing...
Rev 20:6 is a 1,000 year period, but there is no mention of reigning on earth.
Grow in grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ, but He told those who would eventually become kings/priests the following:
John 14:1 "Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
:2 In my Father’s house are many mansions: if [it were] not [so], I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, [there] ye may be also."
Did Jesus waste His time preparing something? Is that place prepared yet? Does Doug believe God? Believe Jesus, here? Growing in knowledge of when Jesus will really return to earth? Aren't Christians to follow some Lamb wherever He goes? Where did Jesus go?
Will Doug Winnail with his followers "very soon" really point: "all human beings to the Truth in the millennium," or is Doug just another false teacher, among numerous former WCG hirelings who fled Pasadena and teach similar/identical thoughts, as false teachers pointing people to some Mickey Mouse Millennium reign on earth for 1,000 years?
Time will tell...
John
Apologies; I posted below to wrong article/post, so am re-posting to keep it with the first post above.
ReplyDeleteBelow is part 2 & 3 of “Sit and Stand” on the roles of kings and priests.
Mekchizdec, king and priest, sets the precedent.
MELCHIZEDEK KING-PRIESTS
Ge 14:18 And Melchizedek KING of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the PRIEST of the most high God.
2Sa 5:3b and they anointed David KING over Israel.
2Sa 5:6 And the king and his men went to Jerusalem unto the Jebusites...
2Sa 5:7 And David captureth the fortress of Zion, it is the city of David. (YLT).
Ps 110:4 The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a PRIEST for ever after the order of Melchizedek.
"When centuries later, Jerusalem fell into David's hands and became his capital (2 Sam. 5:6ff), he and his heirs became successors to Melchizedek's kingship, and probably also (in a titular capacity at least) to the priesthood of God Most High" (F. F. Bruce, The Epistle to the Hebrews, Revised, NICNT, p.124).
One of the difficulties in understanding the OT is that the revelation of the NT is often read back into the OT. In this scenario Psalm 110 is understood as a DIRECT MESSIANIC prophecy. But it is argued that this royal psalm was composed by the psalmist for his contemporary Davidic king. Later after the return from the Babylonian captivity, when no Davidic sat on the throne, this psalm came to be understood as a MESSIANIC prophecy - cp. second temple exegesis in the first century AD. It is highly probable that David composed (Mk 12:36) the psalm in his co-regency with Solomon when he was too ill to perform his royal duties - as acting king, Solomon was David’s lord - and in his anticipation that Solomon would build the temple and be the patron of the temple and temple worship.
Ps 110:1 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
1Ki 5:3 ... because of the wars waged against ... David from all sides, he could not build a temple for the Name of the LORD his God until the LORD put his enemies under his feet.
(God, “first cause,” put David’s enemies under his feet, through David, “second cause,” but because of his bloodshed he still could not build the Temple.
(For human Davidic kings, “sitting at God’s right hand” was ancient near-eastern hyperbole; for Jesus it is literal. Eventually God, “first cause,” is going to place Christ’s enemies under His feet through Jesus Christ himself - “second cause” (cp. Rev 19:11ff; just as He did for and through David; with God ast His right hand (110:5)).
“David and his royal sons, as chief representatives of the rule of God, performed many worship-focused activities, such as overseeing the ark of the covenant (see 2Sa 6:1-15, especially v. 14; 1Ki 8:1), building and overseeing the temple (see 1Ki 5-7; 2Ki 12:4-7; 22:3-7; 23:4-7; 2Ch 15:8; 24:4-12; 29:3-11; 34:8) and overseeing the work of the priests and Levites and the temple liturgy (see 1Ch 6:31; 15:11-16; 16:4-42; 23:3-31; 25:1; 2Ch 17:7-9; 19:8-11; 29:25,30; 31:2; 35:15-16; Ezr 3:10; 8:20; Ne 12:24,36,45).
1Ki 2:35 The king ... replaced Abiathar with Zadok the priest. (NIV)
“In all these duties they exercised authority over even the high priest. But they could not engage in those specifically priestly functions that had been assigned to the Aaronic priesthood (see 2Ch 26:16-18). In the present oracle the son of David is installed by God as king-priest in Zion after the manner of Melchizedek, the king-priest of God Most High at Jerusalem in the days of Abraham (see Ge 14:18). As such a king-priest, he was appointed to a higher order of priesthood than that of Aaron and his sons. (For the union of king and priest in one person see Zec 6:13.)” (NIVSB on Psalm 110:4).
Part 2
ReplyDeleteZec 6:13 ... and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.
“Kelly brings out the full import of the prophetic announcement by saying: “He is now a priest after the order of Melchisdec; He will then exercise it in all is fullness of meaning (not as now Aaronically in the holiest, but) coming forth with refreshment for the conquerers over the hostile powers of the earth, blessing the most high God ... and blessing man, Himself the channel and security of all blessing for ever” [William Kelly, Zechariah, KCBB, p.463]” (Charles L. Feinberg, God Remembers - A Study of Zechariah, p.64).
2Ch 9:8 Blessed be the LORD thy God, which delighted in thee to set thee on his throne, to be king for the LORD thy God ... he thee king over them, to do judgment and justice.
Eze 43:7 and he said to me, “Son of man, this is the place of my throne and the place of the soles of my feet, where I will dwell in the midst of the people of Israel forever.
While Jesus inherits the throne of David he will delegate one of his relatives as his vice-regent during the Millennium/Messianic kingdom, while in the lower realm of heaven where is throne will be ‘located’. God [“first cause,” through Christ, [“second cause”] will also have a “dwelling presence” in the Millennial Temple.
HEAVENLY MELCHIZEDEK PRIESTS
Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude .. stood [histemi] before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; .
Rev 7:15a ... they are before the throne of God and serve Him day and night in His temple (BSB).
While human Davidic kings are prohibited from entering the inner court (cp. Eze 46:1-2), heavenly Melchizdek king-priests can stand and minster before the throne of God in the Most Holy Place.
(Revelation 7 is a retro-prospective insert prophecy in the chronological story line in the book of Revelation).
HEAVENLY MELCHIZEDEK KINGS
Eph 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities [exousia], against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.
Eph 2:6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms [literally, “in the heavenlies”] in Christ Jesus, (a prolepsis).
"... the Bible tells us that ... [demons] ... are organized into various provinces or domains, which are referred to in the NT as archai ("governments," "rulers"), exousiai ("authorities"), and enjoy the status of kosmokratores ("world rulers," "powers of this world"). Without flesh and blood, they are evil spirit-beings who occupy assigned superterrestrial regions (cp. Eph 6:12: "the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realm")" (Gleason L. Archer, Jr., Daniel, EBC, Vol.7, pp.126-127).
Da 10:13 But the prince of the Persian kingdom resisted me twenty-one days. Then Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, because I was detained there with the king of Persia.
Da 10:20 So he said, “Do you know why I have come to you? Soon I will return to fight against the prince of Persia, and when I go, the prince of Greece will come;
"The prince of the kingdom of Persia... a representative of Persia in the heavenlies is intended; Greece also has an angelic counterpart (20)..." (Joyce G. Baldwin, Daniel, TOTC, p.181).
Christ and the Saints are going to replace Satan and the Demons in the heavenly realms. Instead of ‘demon’ kings of Persia and Greece there will be ‘saint kings’ of Persia and Greece.
Koke61: I liked and was surprised by some of the things that you wrote.
ReplyDeleteIt prompted me to take another look at the LCG website.
I was able to find a little bit about grace and a very little bit about justification on the website- which really surprised me.
St. Paul, the early Church, and Christians throughout the ages were/are obsessed with these New Covenant concepts.
I did not find the same to be the case with the LCG website.
Instead of inspiring the reader with what these beautiful concepts are, the focus was on explaining what they are not and falsely portraying what others believe about grace and justification.
I find that bizarre and dishonest.