From a COGE source:
In the race to the bottom in the wacky world of Armstrongism the dark horse, Jon Brisby, of the Church of God the Eternal, presented another outlandish sermon (Love vs. Tolerance) in which he spends an hour lecturing his congregation to not just be tolerant of their particular splinter's brethren, but to go a step further and "love" them. Not like those heathen Sunday churches do with their "worldly love" of feeding and sheltering the homeless or strangers, but rather love your brethren with the love that was divinely revealed to Herbert Armstrong... towards the end of his sermon at the 1:06:00 mark he laughingly calls his entire congregation; mentally retarded. Yes, mentally retarded. If I were lecturing my flock, I might have chosen different words, I would have maybe chosen to quote the Psalms and tell my congregation they are fearfully and wonderfully made, but that sounds an aweful lot like those Sunday preachers, wait a minute, maybe there's something to those Sunday churches, and their love, that Brisby is trying to scare his followers from. No in his eyes his congregants are all retards to fund his lavish lifestyle. However, it does make you question the mental state of his splinter group that would stick around after being called a retard from the pulpit.
Brisby's record of "Godly" love includes: counseling a man to divorce his wife to protect his finances, telling happily married people to separate because of his perceived idea that their marriage isn't legitimate, telling his followers not to seek medical attention, and die a preventable painful death. Yes, this is his example of love, of the god he serves. It is no wonder his church is rapidly shrinking.
This is not surprising at all. The ministry and even Herbert Armstrong looked down on the members and constantly denigrated them. I can't forget the endless number of times HWA stood on the auditorium stage screaming at us for not getting it. Members were too stupid to understand what he was saying. Ministers who now occupy seats in COGWA and UCG would mock members as too stupid to understand what's happening. As long as they paid, prayed, and obeyed, that was all that mattered to them.
ReplyDeleteThis is appalling! Brisby's choice of words is anachronistic to say the least, and just plain cruel to those who are less blessed in their mental capacities. Just six months ago, a well known NASCAR cup driver used the "R" word (as it has now become known) on another driver, it went out live over his radio, and NASCAR required him to attend sensitivity classes! We're talking NASCAR here, an organization which has remade its own image, having suffered much name-calling and abuse themselves at the hands of those who have called them ignorant and backwards for decades.
ReplyDeleteIt was bad enough to be called "dumb" sheep. Jon Brisby deserves to be cancelled just as we have HWA!!!
Laughing with him excitedly and adoringly, perhaps drooling just a little, they acknowledged their wise leader's observation about them. They are the weak and the base after all. And the retarded too. Yes, soon these retards shall be God as God is.. Kings, priests, rulers and retards, ruling from a great white throne when all the non retards get a second chance to also be retards, like they once were. Profound revealed truth right there.
ReplyDeleteSeveral times God counsels people to "be a man, be strong, brave and courageous." God wants people to be the best they can be, and expand their boundaries. But ministers, both ACOG and the "worldly," do the opposite by (murderously) mentally shrinking their members in border to gain power and superiority over them. Today it's labelled narcissistic devaluation. All bullies do this.
ReplyDeleteThis is another example of the narrow gate being viewed as impractical, and the belief that it's bully morality that "really works." Esau couldn't agree more.
It blows my mind how SO MANY of the ACOGs quote on refer back to HWA for every thing spiritual or biblical. He really is the messiah of too many of the churches of the Worldwide tradition.
ReplyDeleteBrisby is a bully any way you slice it. Bullies come in all shapes and sizes and approach their victims in many different ways. The end goal is to subjugate.
ReplyDeleteThe Apostle Paul said to follow, or immitate him as he did Christ. This statement commands accountability on the part of the listener, yet so many blindly follow.
The Apostle Paul also said people would put up with anything if they were told they could become a god.
ReplyDeleteStuck with doctrine from before 1972, he apparently is stuck on old terms as well.
ReplyDeleteGuess he doesn't know the words DOWN SYNDROME.
They put up with it, so he's probably right.
ReplyDeleteWhat a sick little midget of a man.
ReplyDeleteI did not listen to the whole sermon because I'm not a fan, and he doesn't deserve a pass at all. But, context matters and I think this reaction is a little harsh.
ReplyDelete"I've used this example in the past, I'll use it again. If you had a disabled family member, I didn’t, some of you have. If you had an autistic brother or sister, or one who is mentally retarded. I guess that’s not politically correct to say that but I don't know what else. But, if you had a family member who was seriously mentally retarded, OK? But they're a beloved member of your family, right? And they make mistakes, and they say things and they do things, and whatever. But, they’re part of your family and you love them and you're going to defend them and protect them. So, in that example, you are hardwired in essence to show mercy for their mistakes. It might annoy someone outside your family, but you’re gonna go to bat for them. So, the only thing I’m advocating, is that we turn that same kind of devotion to a mentally disabled person, and view the whole church that way, which is your family. (While chuckling) Yeah, we're all mentally retarded is what I'm saying, to one degree or another. But those weaknesses and things that we've already talked about, that we bring to the church, we're all defective. Now, we can either let those defects annoy one another, or else, because have an inherent love, we're gonna defend them anyway, and come to their defense and their rescue, and we're going to seek to cover and to help them, rather than call them out. Does that make any sense as a way to think about it?"
Context is all good and well, and yet while 75 percent of what he said is okay, the man has never been one for tact. Spewing insults and delivering messages out of complete context, have been a repeated pattern for this man. This is a fact proven in much of his material. This alone disqualifies him to teach.
DeleteI agree 110%, I’m just saying it was a sensationalized headline that did not take context into consideration.
Delete@Anon 2:56
DeleteHeadline says:
John Brisby Sinks to Another Low: Calls His Members "Mentally Retarded"
Your transcript says:
Yeah, we're all mentally retarded is what I'm saying, to one degree or another.
Looks like the transcript agrees with the headline. Don't see a problem. Lets see you rewrite the headline for this article that takes it all in to context.
Full context headline: "Brisby calls his church mentally retarded, as lesson to teach his church to love each other"
DeleteHe has distinguished himself from PCG! That is the quaint little group who are taught to leave their mentally disabled child at the mall.
ReplyDeleteIn Armstrongism, anything which causes disruption is anathema. And, it is absolutely amazing what activities and conditions get classified as disruptive. It could be a new fashion or hairstyle which grabs others' attention, behavior by a child which causes the parent to interrupt their prayer session to correct, a cough, sniffle, or growling stomach in church, use of teenage slang which requires a question to understand, or countless other everyday occurrences which happen normally in life. The stereotypical ACOG personality does not comprehend "roll with the punches", and this is especially true of the ministers. And, there are no excuses! They would not know how to deal with a member who is highly functional, but has tics which cause him to make involuntary noises in church services. Rather than showing love, they marginalize. Short term memory loss is not excusable, because remembering every little detail you read or hear from Armstrongite sources is what distinguishes you as a valid and vibrant member.
At AC, it was well known that if you had a deeply pensive expression during church services, GTA was so paranoid (probably because he imagined that you somehow knew his secrets) that he would assume you hated him. I understand that Dave Pack has all manner of rules for behavior during his sermon, and becomes very irritated if someone even accidentally violates them. And, then, of course, there is a custom unique to Armstrongism called blanket training.
Gotta say one thing about the splinter groups. They made it possible for a whole bunch of people to avoid returning to normalcy and balance. These people enjoy being as they are, most likely because such a state of mind provides a multitude of opportunities to look down on others.
the thing about brisby is he doesn't preach in any kind of context at all. everything he is really saying is said between the lines. that is where you have to look if you want to know what he's really saying.
ReplyDeletefor instance when a certain couple in that church was going through marital problems and brisby was counselling the husband to divorce his wife, he stood up at the pulpit and told everyone not to take sides, then what does he do? he presents his side of the story in a multiple sermon series and advocates for the husband. this was not the neutrality he plainly advised earlier. was he as neutral in those sermons as he told everyone to be? did anyone walk away from those sermons feeling like the there was any innocence on the wife's behalf? no she was guilty in the court of pulpit opinion and it became the public's opinion
Very well studied. I think he gets a thrill out of doing these types of things. He controls you, then goes on to control the narrative. Who's going to question him? No one. They know they get put out if they do.
DeleteThat gal is better off without her xhusband. He would have become so dam controlling over the years.
DeleteHow about preaching the new birth, regeneration and the fruits of the holy spirit, one of which is love. Only a false religion cult ignores the spirit, and comes up with an analogy about comparing your brothers and sisters in Christ to retarded people. That is not a holy spirit inspired place. That is a place where a man is standing in the seat of God, and shows himself to be God in the flesh himself.. and the followers take his retarded mark
ReplyDeleteThis is just another racist American article about a racist American church.
ReplyDeleteOh, look! Another dingleberry who has no idea what the word racist means.
ReplyDeletethats it, nice retard, nice retard, come here little retard.. annnnnnnnnnd you're molested. Now don't get all worked up about it, David was a man of God and made some mistakes too.
ReplyDeleteThis is not a mistake my friend. This is an established pattern of years of verbal abuse, not to mention doctrinal error well documented.
ReplyDeleteThe mentally retarded will likely all be in heaven. The armstrongist, most likely in hell, having chosen to be retarded.
ReplyDeleteLord have mercy on these cultists, and may he bring them into a Relationship with Him and show them saving Grace, and the assurance of Salvation. Amen.
ReplyDeleteDemean those who listen to you for instruction. If they continue to listen, you control them. Shame on him, shame on them.
ReplyDelete