Sobering Surprises Ahead: Jesus came into this world preaching the Gospel of the coming Kingdom of God (Mark 1:14–15). He also said He will return (John 14:1–3) at a time when the future of human civilization is threatened (Matthew 24:21–22). However, today the world has forgotten God and rejected His ways (Jeremiah 3:21), and His word—the Bible—is viewed as a strange thing (Hosea 8:12). As a result, the return of Jesus Christ will come as a sudden surprise to most people because they will not be expecting this sobering event (Matthew 24:42–44). The Feast of Trumpets is an annual reminder that Jesus Christ is going to return and dramatically intervene in human affairs to save mankind from destruction. When He comes back the world will be shocked at the power of His intervention, but at that time “they shall know that I am the Lord,” as mentioned more than 60 times in the book of Ezekiel (6:7, 10, 13–14 are just a few examples). Will you be ready for that historic event, or will you be surprised?
Have a profitable Sabbath,
Douglas S. Winnail
Doug W asks " Will you be ready for that historic event, or will you be surprised?"
ReplyDelete==============
Doug and all the COG folk need to face the reality of their own deaths, appointed unto all and all that, with no Second Coming. If I personally had to guess, not soon, not ever.
The concept of the Second Coming being soon, quickly and shortly has achieved meme status and it always means "us" to the faithful. It meant them only when Jesus is said to have taught, but it is obvious that even Gospel Jesus was mistaken followed by the Apostle Paul, who also had to admit he was mistaken. So it will be again and again.
Behold the new Messenger of the Covenant, Branch, Elijah to come and fake Apostle David C Pack, who has the most extreme form of delusional thinking with religious content ever to infest the churches.
In "Mere Christianity" C.S. Lewis wrote of Jesus who was either a liar, a lunatic or Lord (He went with Lord of course). I would suggest "legend" be added to the list
Whichever, and the case can be made for all of them, personally, I feel all the "Greats" who have arisen from the debris of WCG need to plan, like everyone else before them since "soon", "quickly", "suddenly" and "shortly" was promised by the first century Church to this day, would find it better to accept their lives coming to an end relatively soon, shortly, quickly and or suddenly.
All Churches need to get over the Book of Revelation and the concept of a Second Coming in their lifetime and work on being helpers of people's joy more grounded in the reality of the human experience with tolerance, love, forgiveness and kindheartedness. They also return to "My Kingdom is not of this world" and drop the right-wing politics, with its new Lord and Savior that has now infested the Churches of God. Who could have imagined it? :)
We may soon, we'll see, get all the chaos we all have created for ourselves on the planet but only reap a sanitation problem with still no Second Coming. It is a pattern we have seen over the pat 2000 years and I seriously doubt it will shortly find lions and lambs being cozy together. Not to mention hands and cockatrices dens. Isaiah 11: 8-9.
Note: Cockatrice
The mediaeval name (a corruption of "crocodile") of a fabulous serpent supposed to be produced from a cock's egg. It is generally supposed to denote the cerastes, or "horned viper," a very poisonous serpent about a foot long. Others think it to be the yellow viper (Daboia xanthina), one of the most dangerous vipers, from its size and its nocturnal habits (Isaiah 11:8; 14:29; 59:5; Jeremiah 17;)
PS ", but it is obvious that even Gospel Jesus was mistaken followed by the Apostle Paul, who also had to admit he was mistaken. So it will be again and again."
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To put the concept in the right order, it was Paul who had to admit he was mistaken and die like everyone else without being part of any "we who are alive.." first before any Gospel story of Jesus was penned.
The New Testament is perceived differently when one puts Paul's writings FIRST with the Gospels written long after his death bringing his "Cosmic Hallucinatory Christ" down into a historic setting. Acts was written to bridge the gap between Paul and the Gospels and introduce Paul as the actual author of Christianity over the Jerusalem Apostles. That Paul went from persecutor of the Church, rather instantly to Apostle over it, with no in-between is rather suspicious. IMHO
Galatians 1 and 2 make it very clear that Paul tolerated no one, not even Peter, James and John, "reputed pillars" from whom Paul notes "I learned nothing from them" and cursed anyone who did not abide by the Gospel that he got from Jesus himself in yet another delusional hallucination.
Oh to give one more FOT sermon... LOL :)
Dennis:
ReplyDeleteWell argued. But I have an alternative view. I would hesitate to call it the Christian view because even within the Christian church views on these topics will vary at least a little.
First, it is galling that the Armstrongist preachers always invoke the Parousia as an event to come in the lifetimes of their congregants. They have no idea when Jesus will return. Their oft cited chronological hook is that “we now have nuclear weapons and the whole world can be destroyed for the first time in history” and is a misunderstanding of the context in scripture and besides gives no absolute date. Without a doubt the First Century church believed that Jesus would return visibly, probably shortly after the 70 AD events, and was wrong just like the Millerites in 1844. But that object lesson, no matter how close to home, is lost on Armstrongists. Instead of the era of the Millennium, we have had the Era of the Church. This does not cancel the Parousia – it just says we do have a clue as to the timing.
Next, I agree with you that a pre-occupation with the Parousia is a diversion from the good works that could and should be done by the church. Armstrongism is a prime example of this. But most Christians are not submersed in this pre-occupation. While they know there will be a Parousia, they understand there is the business of good to attend to. “Blessed is that servant whom his master will find so doing when he comes.” Armstrongists will claim that their work is preaching an apocalyptic message but it is fairly easy to exegete that the Gospel is not about apocalypticism but salvation in Christ and the exaltation of love.
Placing the writings of Paul ahead of the Gospels would be difficult for modern readers but not overwhelming. The arrangement of the books in the Bible is something that later curators developed. At one time the New Testament text was just a collection of parchments – probably unbound. But focusing on the sequencing of the books of the Bible overlooks the reality of how Christianity developed. The material that came in the later Gospels was known to the church during the time of Paul. It is not like it came onto the scene suddenly and without etiology at a date later than Paul. Scholars feel that there were early source materials such as the conjectural Sayings of Jesus used commonly in the Synoptics. The written text of the NT may appear to have coalesced in stages but the unwritten content had been broadly dispersed in the church - probably in the form of pericopes.
Scout
Naw. Second Coming could be at this 2023 FOT at the end of 6000 years (Ex 23:16-FOT at end of year). After two days, in the third day - Hosea 6:2. "Day" of course is a 1000 years. Think big. Hosea lived about 700 BCE. First "day" is 700 to 300 CE; second day 300 to 1300 CE; third day 1300 CE to 2300 CE, give or take.
ReplyDeleteDoug Winnail, still spiritually blind, stated: "...today the world has forgotten God and rejected His ways (Jeremiah 3:21)..."
ReplyDelete******
Yes, Doug, ancient Israel did forget God, but did this world forget God? Here is Jesus' answer about The God, His Father: Jesus' God.
"O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me." John 17:25
How would the world forget a God, a Father, it had not known? And a God who inspired something else you may not believe:
"God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them;..." 2 Corinthians 5:19
And Doug, God is doing that all through Jesus Christ. This world is not as hopeless as you make it out to be. Ignorance is okay whether you possess it, or the world possesses it; God is faithful to do as He has said.
Doug Winnail, still spiritually blind, stated: "...the return of Jesus Christ will come as a sudden surprise to most people..."
******
Yes, Doug, and that includes you, who turns a blind eye to Jesus' second coming after His murder, being dead for 3 days/nights, being resurrected, going to His Father in Heaven and returning to earth for the second time, a real second coming, which lasted about 40 days. Additional comings are in the works, but you expect another Jesus to very soon return to earth to reign for 1,000 years, but numerous scriptures admit Jesus will be in Heaven at the Father's right hand for a very long time yet. Forget that baloney we were told about: "in 3 to 5 years," etc. You, by another spirit, endorse another gospel: a false gospel. Time is telling! Plan to be surprised!
Doug Winnail, still spiritually blind, stated: "...The Feast of Trumpets is an annual reminder that Jesus Christ is going to return and dramatically intervene in human affairs to save mankind from destruction..."
******
Doug, besides Trumpets not being a Feast (like thee 3 Feasts: Unleavened Bread, Pentecost and Tabernacles), Trumpets covers a period of many months, and when Jesus returns it is only to clouds. Changed/resurrected sealed Firstfruits meet Jesus in the clouds and then follow Jesus as He returns to be at His Father's right hand until all enemies are subdued.
Jesus knows where He is going as the Lamb follows that Lamb. Also, those Trumps cause lots of destruction to the environment as well as mankind, whom God will later resurrect.
Doug Winnail, still spiritually blind, stated that when Jesus does return that the world: "...shall know that I am the Lord,” as mentioned more than 60 times in the book of Ezekiel ..."
******
The Lord there is another reference to God the Father, and not to Jesus Christ. It is idolatry to put Jesus Christ in place of The God, the Father!
This world is not going to know the LORD until after Satan exits the pit, after that short/little time/season, several more years, and the second resurrection occurs.
Doug, in ignorance, you take verses that apply to the Eighth Day and you strive to shove them, out of context, into Trumpets (other hirelings of the former WCG lump in Tabernacles and some "second coming," but they too are blind). 3-5 years? Ridiculous! Heard it for decades: it doesn't work!
Did Doug Winnail, like other former hirelings, perhaps driven by another spirit to another Jesus and another gospel, go stagnant in growing in the grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ, and unknowingly be in store for some sobering surprises along with others?
Time will tell...
John
Dennis:
ReplyDeleteYour posts often remind me of the old song from Blood, Sweat and Tears, called "When I Die"
One of the stanzas says--
I Swear there ain't no heaven
And I pray there ain't no hell
But I'll never know by living
Only by dying will tell
Yes, only by dying will tell, yeah
Only my dying will tell
Erratum:
ReplyDeleteI wrote:
This does not cancel the Parousia – it just says we do have a clue as to the timing.
It should have beeen:
This does not cancel the Parousia – it just says we DON't have a clue as to the timing.
Scout
No book of Revelation/ no second coming/ no God?
ReplyDeleteWe get it Dennis!
If that's the case, then there is no reason to "work on being helpers of peoples joy more grounded in the reality of the human experience with tolerance, love, forgiveness, and kindheartedness". Those are very high morals. Did you make these up?
If God doesn't exist there is no right or wrong way to live! Without a higher authority to set the standard, my way is just as good as the next guy! I can do or not do whatever I want and it is as morally sound as what you might prescribe.
Without God, the best we can do is " eat and drink for tomorrow we die", 1 Cor 15:32!
It's always the same stale material from these ACOGs. There's an ongoing knowledge explosion in the secular world, yet this is hidden from the members. A person can learn more from one good self help book than from listening to a thousand ACOG neo-Kenneth Copeland sermons.
ReplyDeleteMembers are being fed only spiritual milk, and don't even realize it.
BP8 said..
ReplyDeleteIf that's the case, then there is no reason to "work on being helpers of peoples joy more grounded in the reality of the human experience with tolerance, love, forgiveness, and kindheartedness". Those are very high morals. Did you make these up?
If God doesn't exist there is no right or wrong way to live! Without a higher authority to set the standard, my way is just as good as the next guy! I can do or not do whatever I want and it is as morally sound as what you might prescribe.
===========================
That's a common "if there is no God" response, but an inaccurate one. There have been and are many whole cultures with plenty of right and wrong and a moral compass. The idea that only belief in God or fear of Him/Her/It is the source of our moral and ethical views is simply wrong.
"As for morality, much has been researched and written in the last couple of decades utterly dispelling the long-held assumption that religion is the origin of morality, and delineating in detail the naturally evolved basis (biological and social) of the human moral sense. Humans have both prosocial and antisocial traits—cooperative, caring tendencies as well as competitive, aggressive tendencies."
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/finding-purpose/201809/purpose-meaning-and-morality-without-god
================
"According to international surveys conducted by the Pew Research Center, most people around the world think that morality depends upon belief in God. It doesn’t. In fact, any morality that depends upon belief in God is inherently unsound.
Allow me to explain....
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-secular-life/201908/how-can-you-be-moral-if-you-dont-believe-in-god
So where does our morality come from then, if not faith in God?
"First, our morality comes from millions of years of evolutionary development as social primates, during which we lived in small groups, and survival depended upon helping out, being mindful of others, honest, trustworthy, altruistic, and cooperative. This long evolutionary history of social existence endowed us with brains that have a heightened capacity for empathy, sympathy, and compassion.
While there is a range among us -- to be sure -- most of us are readily able to understand and even feel the suffering of others. We know what it is like to be cold, hungry, or scared: not pleasant. And we are capable of responding to suffering accordingly.
Second, our moral inclinations are grounded in our earliest experiences of being cared for as infants.
Third, our morality develops in accordance with the people who raised us as we grew up – parents, extended family, teachers, neighbors, etc.
Fourth, or morality is heavily shaped by our surrounding culture and society.
And finally, our morality is honed and nurtured through ongoing personal experience, reflection, and reason.
To be moral is fairly clear cut. It entails not causing unnecessary pain, harm, or suffering to humans and other animals; easing or relieving the pain or suffering of humans and other animals; offering various forms of help and assistance to those who need or seek it; comforting and tending to those who are vulnerable or weak; striving to make those around us feel supported and safe; working to increase health, happiness, and well-being in our families, communities, and society at large; working to increase fairness and justice, locally and globally; being empathetic and compassionate; being honest, conscientious, and caring; being altruistic; treating people the way in which we ourselves would want to be treated.
None of these require a supernatural deity. None require faith in God.
Rather, they are grounded in our evolved social nature, they grow out of our interactions with others, they dwell in our consciences, in our guts, in our minds, in our hearts, and in our shared attempts – floundering though they be -- to make the world a better place."
..."from millions of years of evolutionary development"...
ReplyDelete+++++++++++++++++++++
Development? What was the causal factor of development?
Anonymous Anonymous said...
ReplyDelete..."from millions of years of evolutionary development"...
+++++++++++++++++++++
Development? What was the causal factor of development?
=====================
Mutation
Non-random mating
Gene flow
Finite population size (genetic drift)
Natural selection
and lots of deep time
Denis@ 4:55:00 PM PDT
ReplyDeleteand lots of time………
Ouch not so Denis, time is an observer not an ingredient…..
And time and decay are the greatest enemies of evolution……..
Non-random mating….?
Gene flow……….?
Natural selection……..lol.
Genetic drift…….?
Where there is no life, there can be no mechanism for evolution.
It is thanks to science we know that nitrogen, hydrogen,silver and ammonia do not reproduce, neither do amino acid’s or carbohydrates. Neither do they excrete or metabolise at all. Good reads are as follows,
Return of the God Hypothesis, God and the Astronomers, Loney hearts of the Cosmos,The Universe,Past and Present Reflections, Why the universe is the way it is,God and the New Physics, all by various authors, good reading for you.
and drop the right-wing politics
ReplyDeleteSpoken like a true sheep of the woke media. A short-sighted victim of current fads.
Dennis:
ReplyDeleteHerding animals will frequently act in concert against an external threat. The bison gang up on the wolf pack. I don’t know if the herding instinct was a creation or if it evolved. The idea that it evolved is plausible. But if a biologist were to create a scenario in which social conscience evolved among bison, I could create an opposing scenario. One scenario against another really doesn’t resolve anything.
The principal problem with the evolutionary scenario is the enormous gap between animals displaying herd instinct or even the more advanced behaviors of some primates, on one hand, and homo sapiens, on the other. Herd instinct and primate behavior just does not rise to the level of human social conscience. And human social conscience is so complex that imagining a mutational sequence that could produce it is unrealistic. This is because human social conscience is connected to the advanced intellection that humans are capable of. The rise of human intellection defies simple biologic solutions such as mutation and natural selection.
But what if human intellection did evolve and one day long ago and humans began to have the ability to sort through advanced moral dilemmas. And at that point the Image of God emerged and God began to deal with hominids in a totally new and more profound way. While I think the evolution of complex human intellection is unlikely, it could have happened, especially if the genome were being manipulated by someone who knew how. Evolution of and by itself is not anti-God. So, the proposition “If there is evolution, then there is no God” does not carry water. Evolution is then just another tool that God has in his kit. Nothing in the physical realm can be counterposed against an absolute God who provides the non-evolutionary properties of the Cosmos. Being did not evolve. Matter did not evolve. Energy did not evolve. Space did not evolve. Time did not evolve. There was no mutation and natural selection for these fundamental properties. Yet, they form the baseline that evolutionists always assume.
Scout
Dennis, it sounds like you got a degree from the school of Christopher Hitchens.
ReplyDeleteI will admit that I'm not a skilled apologist knowing all the pat answers, but I do know enough to know that most of what you wrote is pure wishful thinking!
If there is no God, if there is no standard beyond humanity, then everything is just a matter of personal opinion. Who is to say your opinion of morality is any better that Nazi Germany's version? You? Other atheists? By what standard are we to define good and evil? Feelings you say?
God's standard exists because He exists, whether we believe in Him or not! It is He, not religion or our faith, who determines and defines what is morally right and wrong.
You talk about a morality that wants to make this world a better place. Is that what China wants? Russia? Didnt Hitler want that? How about the streets of Detroit, Chicago, LA? Are they havens of love and empathy?
You're right, man has come a long way in his evolution. To the brink of destruction! Is that a good thing or bad?
And if you take away faith in a higher power, what are you left with?
ReplyDeleteSoviet Union, Red China, N Korea- it's been tried. Not much of a track record.
A moral code without God is dubious. Personal experience, reflection, and reason has its place, but one cannot develop a detailed moral code within a human lifespan using these alone. Philosophers who claim this have always "cheated" by reading extensively, amounting to a defacto bible.
ReplyDeleteFor a devout Christian, "because God says so" is the strongest mental defense against coercive pressure to morally compromise. Convictions based solely on observation, experience, and reason are nowhere near as strong. In nature, young animals typically cannot survive if separated from their parents. Likewise, humans cannot survive morally unless they are close to God.
That dangerous Doug Winnail sneaks in a bit of COG-cult indoctrination by inquiring, “Will you be ready for that historic event, or will you be surprised?”
ReplyDeleteThis is a rehearsal of the COG-odd doctrine of “qualifying for the Kingdom”. Its diabolical purpose is to take the peoples' minds off the sacrifice of Jesus, his justification of believers, and his saving grace - and lead the people back to works of the law to try to qualify for, or earn, their salvation.
Doug’s intended result, the same as all COGs, is to keep the people enslaved to paying tithes to them and attending their concocted versions of the feasts of Leviticus.
I encourage the people of the COGs to enjoy a relaxing vacation, but skip the GOG FOT services and instead, read Holy Scriptures about the gifts of God – seek first the Kingdom of God and HIS (not yours or Doug’s) righteousness – leave the working to qualify to Doug.
why does my brain always think of nail in a coffin when I see the name Doug Winnail
DeleteSpeaking about the return of Jesus, dangerous Doug Winnail asks, “Will you be ready for that historic event, or will you be surprised?”
ReplyDeleteI’m guessing that a good amount of Armstrongites would be surprised that it finally happened, after years of being lied to about it happening in 1975 and then repeatedly being told it would happen in the next five to ten years, definitely within the next fifteen years – for decades.
By going beyond what is stated in the Bible, Doug and all the Armstrongite ministers have dulled the impact of this big event and blurred the vision of the reign of Jesus – even while they claim that the Feast of Tabernacles (their non-biblical version) is picturing the return and reign of Jesus.
Doug preaches a far-off Jesus who will eventually come into his kingdom, instead of the biblical Jesus who is a current victorious King reigning sovereignly over his present Kingdom.
Sure, the Armstrongite re-make of the Feast of Tabernacles can be a nice time to enjoy family, friends, and nature in a scenic vacation venue but it’s a very poor substitute for enjoying the present King and Kingdom. The later really makes the anticipation of the full establishment of the Kingdom so much more vivid.
What's wrong with God telling us to combine a sort of class reunion with a historic re-enactment event & a dress rehearsal or audition
DeleteDennis, your "convinced atheists" from your list of countries are all free loading on the coat tails of Christianity. They're probably not even aware of it. It's only if one looks at Asian cultures with their tradition of filial piety that this becomes apparent. Look at today's Japan where rights and freedom from the group is a joke. Which is why their economy has gone nowhere since the 1980s.
ReplyDelete
ReplyDeleteAnonymous Ronco said...
And if you take away faith in a higher power, what are you left with?
Soviet Union, Red China, N Korea-it's been tried. Not much of a track record
===================
Countries with the most "convinced atheists"
Japan
France
Iceland
Norway
Sweden
This preacher said, “When He comes back the world will be shocked at the power of His intervention…”
ReplyDeleteThis is the melodrama that plays well in Splinterland. An angry Jesus who will smite the earth and send it reeling while non-Laodicean Armstrongists cheer like baseball fans from the bleachers in Petra. The Book of Revelation, if I may, does not portray this kind of an event. To be sure, The Day of the Lord is not something to underrate. But it is also not entirely pre-emptive. While Jerusalem may be the headquarters of the returned Christ, worldly Kings and nations will continue to carry on affairs of state and business. Revelation 21 (which I as a Partial Preterist would consider future) states, “The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it.” The “Kings of the Earth” are the bad guys throughout the Book of Revelation. There still around but of a different heart. They were not given short shrift at the Parousia.
It is hard to understand what the Book of Revelation is talking about for sure. It is Apocalyptic Literature after all. But I nowhere get the impression that there will be a precipitate destruction of worldly institutions at the Return of Jesus. There will be some warfare with armies being decimated but not the establishment of an absolutist government on day one. It is process and not pre-emption. I believe this approach is gracious and not warlike. But grace does not play well in Splinterland.
Scout
When every man did that which was right in his own eyes bad things happened - Judges 17-21. Cities were burnt; over 65000 died, a woman was carved up into 12 pieces. I wouldn't call that "development".
ReplyDeleteAnd then they said oh, hey, kidnap a bunch of girls to rape and we'll look the other way! Barbaric stuff.
Delete“Think not that I am come to send peace on earth. I came not to send peace, but a sword."
ReplyDeleteDennis said:
ReplyDelete"Countries with the most "convinced atheists"
Japan
France
Iceland
Norway
Sweden"
And at least a couple of those countries owe their freedom to believe (or not)
thanks to the Judeo-Christian USA.
The idea that if there is no God, there is no right or wrong most definitely embodies an allegiance to God, however, it ignores the fact that if there is no God, then others define right and wrong. All civilizations which have thrived throughout the past have defined right and wrong based on the good or bad results which are produced by certain types of behavior. It is amazing how the list of inherently good things and inherently bad things has remained a virtual constant throughout history. Virtually everything which exists in nature has polarity, and the more intelligent amongst us recognize and define these distinctly opposite poles. Good and bad are opposites. Right and wrong are opposites. The minute you acknowledge the positive, you are automatically also aware of the negative. Sometimes opposing laws of nature balance or cancel one another out to produce stasis. Centrifugal force alone would normally propel us from a rotating Earth. Centripetal force (gravity, per Newton) overwhelms, or cancels that out, so that we can exist on a rotating planet.
ReplyDeleteHah. I think of Winnie the Pooh!
ReplyDelete