Herbert Armstrong's Tangled Web of Corrupt Leaders

Monday, November 27, 2023

RCG Stepford Moonies Now Celebrating New Moons Because Dave Said To Even Though There Is Nothing Holy About It

 

New Moon Smiler

 

The Restored Church of God continues to decay, abandoning “the restored truths” it was once established to uphold. Pastor General David C. Pack leads the charge of 1,300 wide-eyed lemmings racing full-steam ahead with tongues dangling from their mouths. What they are heading for is not the Kingdom of God but a religious mirage hiding a cliff.

 

As of “The Greatest Untold Story! (Part 479)” on November 11, 2023, The Restored Church of God observes New Moonsas “a given.” Despite David C. Pack's assurances that he would finish "the rest of the story" the following Tuesday, he failed to manifest before the brethren to bless them with his presence.

 

Instead, they were left to watch Edward L. Winkfield III sweat and smile through “a wonderful” 55 minutes of waffling presumptions. I easily imagined Ed pushing aside other men during his frantic rush to volunteer to be the guy their human idol would choose to be his vapid mouthpiece.

 

On Tuesday, November 14, 2023, Edward L. Winkfield delivered "Understanding New Moons," revealing they do not really understand New Moons. The message was a supposition exposition sown together with vaguery and assumptions. You could wonder if Ed was trying to convince his audience or himself that New Moons are relevant to the New Testament Church.



 

It has been a while since I focused on one of Headquarters’ lesser lackeys. Enabler Ed was ordained Stepford Prime last year and is doing all he can to uphold his namesake. From what I hear from departing members, there is no cheerleader in RCG like Edward L. Winkfield. Brethren are well aware of what they are in for when they see his face.

 

Listening to "Understanding New Moons" was a personal challenge for me. His voice grates on me like nails on a chalkboard, and I have to pitch his audio up like a chipmunk just to stomach him. But it was not always this way.

 

Ed and I got along very well during my time at Headquarters. I looked up to the guy, and we had some very deep, enriching conversations. Then, he became my manager, and all of that evaporated. Other men who left RCG warned me that Ed was not the sharpest tool in the shed, but I was open to seeing what he could bring to our department. I spent two weeks teaching him how to do my job so he could run Media Production Services into the ground with the assistance of Know-Nothing Ryan Denee and Zero-Useful Ken Orel.

 

I watched Edward L. Winkfield drive the MPS ship into the rocks, and years of refinement crashed into rubble. Check out their Facebook and YouTube channels to see the type of content they occasionally churn out. Nice job, Ed.

 

He was also the straw that broke the camel's back for me in March 2021. His sermon, "Stay Immune to Heresy," was the jolt I needed to send in my resignation. He has only gotten worse since.

 

When I wonder what happened to Edward L. Winkfield III and how he turned into the empty husk of a human being he is today, I think of the 1985 movie “Lifeforce.” This is the way I would like to believe the man I once respected became what he is:

 

David C. Pack invited Ed up to the Third Floor Executive Imaginarium. While alone, Dave hopped up on the table, grabbed Ed's head, and sucked out all the life force through his mouth and nose. Due to the process of removing Ed’s wisdom, discernment, critical thinking, and biblical honesty, his head was left hollow and ready to be stuffed with rainbow-colored Dave Accolades.

 

The oddest part is that nobody noticed this transformation. The scariest part is that Ed volunteered and did it willingly.

 

Ed is but a shadow of his former self. A mindless drone espousing veiled manipulation and blind allegiance to a false prophet. If he walks around with his chest puffed up these days, it is because he always has his Go-Dave Pom-Poms stuffed inside his suit. He is ever-ready with vain praise and foolish enthusiasm.

 

It makes perfect sense he would give this first New Moon message.


 

 

Ed will repeat that God revealed the truth of New Moons. Wade Cox and the members of Christian Churches of God totally agree. If that is the case, God told CCG thirty years ago. Why did it take so long for Only-True-Church-Dave to get the memo?

 

Ed is too blind to see that when he talks about people getting “very buggy” with the calendar, he perfectly describes his human idol, David C. Pack.

 

Enjoy this sneak peek. During “The Greatest Unending Story! (Part 480)," David C. Pack changed how he calculates his birthday, which is now based on the Hebrew calendar.

 

Part 480 – November 18, 2023

@ 04:13 I should just tell you, my birthday ended about fifty minutes ago. You know, you learn about Abib 1 and how God sees years, and I was born on Kislev 5. So I'm 75 today. I thought I could get all the way to December 7th before I was 75. But, you know, if God were counting it, those are those are the the those would be my years.

 

David C. Pack considers Kislev 5 his birthday, not December 7. Hey, Ed. Is that not getting very buggy with the calendar?

 

If any of the brethren in RCG tried to pull that move three months ago, their field hireling would have counseled with Headquarters, and that member would have been flagged for going off into “goofy ideas.”

 

Understanding New Moons – November 14, 2023

@ 02:59 It’s sort of like sacred names. You know, people see the calendar and the understanding of it as special knowledge. You know, I have this special knowledge that other people don’t quite understand…

 

The mind of Edward L. Winkfield is on autopilot, and even the autopilot is busy with Sudoku. He just described The Restored Church of God. The special church with special understanding given by a special god to a special man so he can give special knowledge to a special people who pay him special money to not-really do special work until a special event occurs on a special day that only the special guy can figure out.

 

Note Ed’s mention of sacred names. As an unofficially unordained non-prophet/non-psychic, utilizing all that non-real authority that non-title grants me, I believe this is coming:

 

Sacred Names Will Come to The Restored Church of God.

 

It almost has to at this point.

 

@ 03:33 But, God opening our understanding that He expects us to keep New Moons made me realize, “You know what? Wait a minute. There is absolutely nothing wrong with God’s sacred calendar. The calendar is fine.”

 

@ 04:22 And this blessing (and I call it that specifically), this blessing of being able to observe New Moons really gives us a chance to better understand and appreciate God’s calendar. It gives us a better understanding of what He’s doing.

 

Wade Cox went out and bought a new pair of tap dancing shoes to celebrate with interpretive movement the joy The Restored Church of God is bestowing upon him.

 

 

Ed warns the brethren that New Moon observance comes with carefulness.

 

@ 06:07 There is a trap to focusing more on New Moons. People can find it easier to be in awe of the things that God created instead of the God who created them.

 

That is not the trap RCG has fallen into. They are inventing a new observance based on predictive assumptions. They are guessing how it should be done and will feel their way through the dark until whatever seems best is agreed upon.

 

Wade just stopped tapping.

 

@ 08:27 Brethren, we should use New Moons and observing New Moons as an additional way to get to know God. It should become an additional way for us to know our Creator.

 

Surely, how that is done helps that process. Oh, wait. No?

 

@ 19:59 If there’s any doubt, any concern, any anxiety, any (running out of adjectives) [chuckles] about how God wants us to recognize the day, we should that should no longer be the case, particularly after the last message.

 

Come on, Ed. Those are nouns. He is doing to words what he did to video.

 

This was Ed addressing people who were uncertain about how to keep New Moons properly. That is a reasonable issue since there is no instruction in the Bible. It is not even commanded, but that will not stop them.

 

The last two quotes create a paradox. They admit they do not know how to observe New Moons, "But hey, don't even worry about it." And yet, observing them helps brethren get closer to God. If you cannot observe correctly with any certainty, how does that bring you closer to God?

 

RCG has become Catholic, where a ritual they create connects them to God regardless of what He commands. As long as they just believe in their hearts, that is probably enough for Him.

 

@ 20:54 God expects our minds, our focus to be on New Moons. What a wonderful, wonderful thing that God once again has our focus on New Moons as He intended. God clearly wants us to observe New Moons.

 

Really? Clearly would involve instructions and commands. Neither are found in the Bible for New Moons. 

 

Ed gushes about how wonderful all of this is without proving it. He is adopting the David C. Pack way of doctrine: Just keep talking until something becomes true. That feels familiar.

 

“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it,

people will eventually come to believe it.”

– Joseph Goebbels


 

 



@ 21:14 Now, many of you are naturally thinking, “How do we observe them?” [laughs] Of course, it’s a great question. Do we observe New Moons on the sunset of the going of the day going into a new moon? Are we or do we do it like today where, at some point during the 24-hour period, that we have a study and have a meal? …Is it different than a Sabbath? Brethren, those are all great questions. All natural questions that you would expect the people of God, people close to God to have.

 

Like they already do at CCG. I’m sure Wade Cox would be happy to sit Ed down to explain how things should be done correctly so he can pass that invaluable knowledge along to the brethren of The Restored Church of God.

 

@ 22:02 The answers are coming. [laughs] The answers are coming. The wonderful thing about this is, you know, once God opened Mr. Pack’s mind to it and he explained it to the brethren, it was a few days away. What do we do? Do we not keep it and just wait another month and try to get everything all figured out?

 

YES. You wait another month, Ed. Jumping the gun on doctrine without doing the proper research while implementing new rituals and ceremonies around it seems the opposite of wise. Dave wants to do what seems right in his own eyes, and you are all too happy to stand at the front of the crowd shouting, "Great is Diana of the Ephesians," even though you do not know why you are cheering.

 

@ 22:21 No. That’s not what God did. That’s not what God did. It was a few days out, and we did what? We do the best that we can to be able to observe it the way that God would want us to do.

 

Ed must have suffered some type of head injury rotting away where the critical thinking portion of his mind once lived. Maybe he was having so much fun swimming at the Feast that he forgot he needed to come up for air once in a while. Pursuing his ignorant exuberance, he unintentionally deprived his brain of the vital oxygen needed to keep those cells alive.

 

Thus, we have the non-critical thinking Edward L. Winkfield III we have today. They admit they do not know what they are doing but are committed to doing it anyhow.

 

This is their logic: God wants His people to observe New Moons for the first time in centuries but then does not give them ample time to study the matter to do it properly. Instead, Dave’s god blurted it under his breath as he walked out the door, leaving the hirelings at Headquarters no choice but to scramble and do something, whether or not it was correct.

 

@ 22:33 Obviously, God would appreciate our zealousness. You know, obeying Him and doing the things that He would have us to do.

 

Spoken like a well-meaning orthodox Jew. Or a devout Catholic. Muslims are known the world over for their “zealousness” too. Yikes. RCG has made a name for itself, poo-pooing "worldly religions" for being zealous about the wrong ideas. The circle is now complete.

 

@ 22:42 But, again, more information will come. Don’t worry. Don’t worry about it.

 

The brethren only need to worry about the push to make this an offering day where the ephah will be heavy, but the pocketbook will be light. Wait for that one to come down the pike.

 

@ 22:46 We serve a God that does things decently and in order.

 

But just not the first time.

 

@ 22:50 So, we have absolutely nothing to worry about.

 

The members of The Restored Church of God have plenty to worry about. David C. Pack assumes titles belonging to Jesus Christ. He has been setting failed dates for the Kingdom of God since 2013. The White Horse of Revelation 6 is no longer a false christ, but the real one. Now, RCG is observing New Moons. There is absolutely plenty to worry about.


 

 

@ 24:37 I don't know about you. I am ecstatic that I get to be a part of this. I happen to be sitting up here. But I'm ecstatic at the opportunity to be able to serve God properly. To serve God in a greater in a fuller way.

 

Ed’s really fuller something, all right. Properly…until things change next time because they will have more time to study and research before pulling the trigger.

 

 

@ 48:39 Observing New Moons is a blessing. I don’t have to convince you of that. I’m sure you all know that. But observing New Moons is a blessing. We now have eleven additional times (You know, Trumpets is already a new moon), we have eleven additional times to come together and to think about the things of God to have Bible studies, to fellowship. To come together now on a day where God is beginning a new month and we can better appreciate whatever significance that month may play.

 

How does a person appreciate “whatever?” Is it possible to appreciate what you do not understand?

 

Eleven more times to come together is a blessing because the folks in RCG do not have enough opportunities already. Hey Ed. Why not just have all the RCG brethren quit their jobs and move onto the Campus, live in the cabins beside Mirror Lake, and live in tents? Then, everyone can have opportunities 365.25 days a year for fellowship.



 

 

 

 

@ 50:52 Will it be more of a challenge to incorporate this understanding into our routines? Will it be more of a challenge to do that? Maybe. Maybe.

 

David C. Pack has taught him well. Even Edward L. Winkfield III knows how to lie. He lied to the entire church right in the face. Maybe Ed? You know the answer is not maybe. It WILL be more of a challenge.

 

In The Restored Church of God, brethren will be expected to take the day off work to come to Services for a Bible study and a meal. Who is going to prepare and pay for those additional meals? The brethren. That sounds like more of a challenge, not a maybe.

 

Wade Cox and crew already did the heavy lifting to figure out when this happens. Click here to get more than what you bargained for.

 

Next Twelve New Moons Per CCG

Wednesday, December 13, 2023

Thursday, January 11, 2024

Saturday, February 10

Sunday, March 10

Tuesday, April 9

Wednesday, May 8

Thursday, June 6

Saturday, July 6

Sunday, August 4

Tuesday, September 3 - Trumpets

Thursday, October 3

Friday, November 1

 

Note the seven weekdays RCG members will have to go hat-in-hand to their employers and beg for new days off while still needing the spring and fall days off, too. Imagine the uncomfortable conversations that will take place worldwide about how this lunar observance came about.

 

“Is it commanded by God?” “No.”

“Does God provide instructions on what to do?” “No.”

“Is it holy time?” “No.”

“Is it a Sabbath?” “No.”

“Is it a Holy Day?” “No.”

“Then, why are you doing it?" "Because Mr. Pack said so."

 

New Moons will not be a challenge for Headquarters hirelings like Eager Ed because he does not have to worry about taking the day off work, unlike all the non-employee brethren of The Restored Church of God. The fun will really begin when parents are instructed to take their children out of school.

 

Wow, Ed. Maybe a challenge? Shame on you, Ed. Shame on you.

 

By their fruits, you shall know them. The fruit of this teaching has already exposed Edward L. Winkfield III as a liar and gullible frontman for David C. Pack’s latest doctrinal malarkey. Smiling the whole way through.

 

RCG just invented their own brand of Sabbath by admitting it is not a Sabbath but placing the same weight upon the shoulders of the brethren to bear. Headquarters must be abuzz with what disciplinary action to take against brethren who cannot observe it as they assume they should.



 

 

 

@ 52:58 How will we deal with this opportunity that we’ve been given to keep New Moons? How will we deal with it? Where will our attitudes go? Where will our minds go?

 

Wade Cox is praying on his knees that this could be the big break he has waited decades for. “Their minds need to go to CCG. They need to go to CCG.”

 

@ 53:11 God wants to see how we’ll deal with it.

 

This is another test for the brethren of The Restored Church of God because all they have already faced is just not enough for Dave’s god. The drills are still going on just when they thought they were over.

 

@ 53:25 But, if you have any concerns, cast them on God. He’ll take care of it.

 

I laughed out loud. Ed is telling everyone, "If you have any concerns, don’t call me, and don’t write CAD. Just let God handle it.” Letting God take care of it is the ultimate “not my problem” response everyone wants to hear from their hireling. At least Ed wrapped up with empty platitudes to make all of this sound righteous.

 

@ 54:26 Who knows what God has in mind. Brethren, we are just at the beginning. You’re at the precipice of something that is a wonderful thing for God’s people. Brethren, get excited. Rejoice at what God is doing. Get excited. I know you’re excited. But I’m saying get excited. Recognize what God is doing.

 

@ 55:23 That is a wonderful thing. God would want His people to be observing New Moons before He returns. God would want that. Obviously. And guess what? We’re doing it. Brethren, God’s church is once again observing New Moons, and that is a wonderful thing. Good afternoon.

 

What is not to be wonderful about? God did not command them. God did not instruct them. They are mentioned in the Bible, and we will keep them in the Kingdom of God. But The Restored Church of God is keeping them anyway. Edward L. Winkfield III is excited and full of smiles about what he does not understand. So much for proving all things.



Marc Cebrian







 

23 comments:

  1. And yet, if you use Colossians to justify sabbaths and holy days, you also HAVE to keep new moons. Otherwise you are inconsistent.

    “So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.”
    ‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2‬:‭16‬-‭17‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

    Why insist on sabbath and holy day keeping but ignore new moons? If they are required then so are new moons.

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  2. 3:10 Or, Paul was referring to the lunar calculations of the (Jewish-Rom 3:2) calendar. And my version!: "let no one judge you.........but the body of Christ"(which is the church - Col 1:24). Meaning, let no one judge you except those in the church.

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  3. The Armstrong game has always been one of pick and choose, and this is nothing different. These clueless leaders pick the new moons, and leave out the whole purpose for the new moons, which was as the monthly starting point for counting out the weekly sabbath, which is how the scribes and priests created the calendar. Prior to calculating the calendar in advance, it was all based on the daily sightings and observations of the priests in Jerusalem!

    Their version of a New Covenant is simply based on inserting a relatively unimportant messiah or savior into the Old Covenant, and a force kind of like a nearly imperceivable low voltage of electricity coming into participants in the New. And, they wonder why they never seem to get prophecy right, or have a church organization that grows and actually conveys a noticeable message????

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  4. I must say, i listened to about two minutes of this. Mr. Winkfield could be considered to be very refreshing as compared to, say, Bob Thiel. But, me? I find Bishop T.D. Jakes to be vastly more inspiring!

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  5. The correct wording instead of "substance is of Christ" is "body of Christ" - see several translations. The word "is" is not in the original, and the phrase which includes "substance" makes no sense in context. It is the body of Chist, or the church, which is to make the judgments as to whether to keep the days in question. The Church has made the judgment to keep the sabbath and festivals, but not the new moons.

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  6. “If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it.” -- Joseph Goebbels

    This statement has been attributed to both Hitler and Goebbels. It appears in Hitler's book. I read it. Go read it yourself in context. It has been lifted totally out of context. Hitler was explaining how his enemies were following that principle, constantly smearing and defaming the Germans. It has been totally misrepresented to make it sound like Hitler advocted that policy. The fact that this statement is misrepesented, yet could easily be corrected, is more evidence that he was correct. It also proves that few people actually check into things to get the truth. They just repeat the lies that they hear.

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  7. My paid time off is capped at 160 hours in a year by my employer. Twenty days which is pretty generous.

    When you include travel time for the FOT plus the other Holy Days I am down to 6 days for the year. And now Dave's church wants to add another 11?

    That is a heavy burden.

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  8. According to the LA times, the billonaire George Soros claims to be a god. That's what money and fame does, it goes to your head. Something has gone to Dave's head. He thinks he is God's man. Perhaps he has a Messianic type complex that will soon put him in Soros land.

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  9. What I don't understand is how Dave rationalizes his catastrophic failure in such a way that he is able to continue believing that he is God's man. If you were working for God, sooner or later some sort of success would be unavoidable, would it not? Dave certainly comes from a different place in reality than anywhere I can imagine.

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  10. And yet, if you use Colossians to justify sabbaths and holy days, you also HAVE to keep new moons. Otherwise you are inconsistent.

    “So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.”
    ‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2‬:‭16‬-‭17‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

    Why insist on sabbath and holy day keeping but ignore new moons? If they are required then so are new moons.


    Wrong. The Sabbath and Holy Days were commanded assemblies ("moedim") in the Old Testament. The new moons were not. Colossians shows that the New Testament church was keeping the Sabbath and Holy Days as commanded. The fact that they were also keeping the new moons shows that it is not wrong to do so, even though it is not required by the law of God.

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  11. I've read most of Hitlers book, and it seemed too balanced to be written by a psychopath. Googling the topic, it appears that several people were involved in the writing the 'photoshopping' of the book. Just like Dave Pack had an outsider 'photoshop' his original 2000-ish autobiography.

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    Replies
    1. I once read an opinion written by an official at the JDL, stating that it would be wrong to dismiss Hitler as a crazy person, because attributing his actions to mental illness is almost excusing him for the murder of Jews in the holocaust. He was in fact a sane individual who deliberately perpetrated great evil, fully knowing what he was doing.

      Just trying to figure you out a little here. Why would you read all of Hitler's writings? Trying to gain some insights into how America is going to look after the 2024 elections (unless we somehow get rescued from what appears will be our fate?)

      Delete
  12. Dave Pack's weekly, wrong, prophetic date guesses that quickly fail and his “common” theft scam that leaves people destitute show that he knows how to LIE and STEAL in a big way.

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  13. I had high hopes that the RCG would become the leading splinter. I was impressed with the amount of information that was on their website. Now i could be wrong, but i dont see any new youtube content. I am not sure they are even on tv anymore. It seems to have become the Mr Pack show. Makes me sad.

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  14. Dan said...“I had high hopes that the RCG would become the leading splinter. I was impressed with the amount of information that was on their website.”

    Others initially felt the same way, but it turned out that Dave Pack was just another false prophet like Gerald Flurry. Dave pretended to be holding fast more faithfully than anyone else to everything that Herbert W. Armstrong had taught, but then went on to warp everything in truly unexpected and unimaginable ways. YOU cannot make this stuff up. It takes someone like Dave Pack backed up by Satan to make this stuff up. All the information that Dave was putting out initially has now been replaced by vast quantities of disinformation vomiting out of his mouth.

    Dave Pack's big August 31, 2013 prophetic date guess that totally failed in spite of his 56 proofs for it, and even when rescheduled for the springtime, was a HUGE warning sign not to trust him. After that colossal blunder of Dave's, it has ALL been a downward death spiral.

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  15. Without the Rosh Chodesh you have no starting point for keeping his appointed times. Lost In Babylon taking up the old tabernacle of Moloch.

    Act 7:43
    Yea, ye took up the tabernacle of Moloch, and the star of your god Remphan, figures which ye made to worship them: and I will carry you away beyond Babylon.

    Amo 5:26
    But ye have borne the tabernacle of your Moloch and Chiun your images, the star of your god, which ye made to yourselves.

    Chiun = "an image" or "pillar"

    probably a statue of the Assyrian-Babylonian god of the planet Saturn and used to symbolise Israelite apostasy

    Gen 1:14
    And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons/môwʻêd, and for days, and years:

    Gen 1:16
    And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

    Psa 136:8
    The sun to rule by day: for his mercy endureth for ever:

    Psa 136:9
    The moon and stars to rule by night: for his mercy endureth for ever.

    Psa 81:3
    Blow up the trumpet in the new moon, in the time appointed/ Full moon/KECE 15th , on our solemn feast day.

    Jer 8:7
    Yea, the stork in the heaven knoweth her appointed times/môʿēḏ; and the turtle and the crane and the swallow observe the time of their coming; but my people know not the judgment of the LORD.

    Wolves Know 15

    1Sa 20:5
    And David said to Jonathan, “Indeed tomorrow is the New Moon, and I should not fail to sit with the king to eat. But let me go, that I may hide in the field until the third day at evening.

    1Sa 20:18
    Then Jonathan said to David, “Tomorrow is the New Moon; and you will be missed, because your seat will be empty.


    Prophet David was a Lunar tick after God's heart.

    Guess what...you'd have to be Self-employed to be able to keep his appointed times.

    Satan, which deceiveth the whole world Has you convinced of saturnalia.

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  16. I wonder if they’ll celebrate them by taking up an offering… 🤔

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  17. Whatever the case may be, I hope they have been using the new moon to properly calculate which day the sabbath falls upon. Next new moon is December 12, which means that the sabbath will fall on Tuesday until the next new moon in January. Jeez! I certainly hope you guys aren't breaking the sabbath! That would be horrible!

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  18. If the sabbath falls on Tuesday then the new "Sunday" would fall on Wednesday! I don't think orthodox Christianity would go along with that!

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  19. Come on, BP8! Orthodox Christianity understands that there is a New Covenant that is not like the old, and that the sabbath has been fulfilled by Jesus Christ. They are not interested in discovering and obsessing over the minutiae of the Old Covenant. So, of course, they will keep Sunday as a memorial of the Resurrection of Jesus Christ.

    The only way the lunar sabbaths could be kept without massive disruption is in a theocracy. One of the major premises of Armstrongism is that true Christians will be observant of all the laws of the Old Covenant that Herbert W. Armstrong designated. But, he only went so far in his discovery of those laws. Even he realized that extreme literalism and fundamentalism are just not possible in the world in which we live. His concessions were an admission to what I believe to be true, in that it was God Himself who made obedience to the Old Covenant impossible deliberately so that His children would be drawn towards the New. Paul was very eloquent in his explanation of this in the epistle to the Galatians.

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  20. Know what has never made any sense at all to me? Much emphasis has been placed on the very first sliver of the new moon in Armstrong theology, but none on the Winter Solstice, the time when we cross the line from shortest day of the year to the very slow beginning of the new cycle in which the days begin to become longer, and gradually warmer. That is just as much a time of rebirth as the new moon. It is my understanding that the pagans knew that both were memorable delineation points and marked them as worthy of celebration. When they did it, it was considered sun worship, or moon worship. I never met anyone who worshipped the sun on New Years Day, Christian, atheist, or other.

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  21. 1104
    It wasn't my intent to start a debate on the covenants or Sunday observance. I was responding to Annon 619 about using the new moons to calculate the sabbath and the sabbath being on Tuesday.

    I'm really not sure just what he was talking about. Is he saying that the new moon IS a sabbath OR that the new moon somehow affects the weekly cycle that determines the 7th day? If it's the former then there is no scriptural reference for it and as far as I know, no one is suggesting that. If it's the latter, then whatever supposed problems affecting the 7th day, like the lunar calendar, or the international date line, would likewise affect the 1st day of the week as well.

    The weekly cycle is what it is. Lunar games cannot change that!

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