Herbert Armstrong's Tangled Web of Corrupt Leaders

Monday, January 22, 2024

Crackpot Prophet On How To Claim You Are Elijah And One Of The Two Witless Witnesses Without Actually Saying You Are


 

The stormy weather is moving out of California as gloomy weather weather turns into sunshine and warmth. The stormy weather seems to have had an impact on the mental fragility of our highly favorite self-appointed prophet who resides in the Arroyo Grande/Grover Beach area of the Central Coast. Ever since our favorite self-appointed prophet discovered that God had preordained his end time coming as the best Church of God leader in human history, the Great Bwana to Africa and the occasional Cuacaisan has been searching long and hard through Scripture to determine how it speaks about his awesomeness and how we should all be trembling at the mere sight of him. As he is in the second decade of his rebellion against Rod Meredith and the Living Church of God, this mighty prophet has deemed it necessary to take on more and more biblical mantles to prove how important he is in his own mind.

Today the Great One is talking about Elijah and the Two witless Witnesses and how he carries the heavy burden of those mantles never actually claiming he does so in a forthright manner. He expects people to be too stupid to see through his charade.

The Great Bwana Mzungu writes criticizing Churches of God, UK, and Church of God Outreach Ministries for their Elijah/prophecy stance. Remember, this is the Great Bwana who is NEVER wrong about anything while everyone else out there in COGland are poor deceived schmucks.

Although people, like the discredited Ron Weinland and David Pack have claimed to be ‘Elijah,’ neither of them are. 
 
Yet, the Bible does show that there will be an ‘Elijah’ who is alive before Jesus returns and that it is likely that he will be one of the two witnesses. And as Jesus is likely to return within the next couple of decades, it is reasonable to consider that he must be alive today.

So, Elijah is alive today channeling himself in a Church of God man. The complete arrogance and idiocy of this belief is shocking.

As we inch closer and closer to these perilous end times there has to be some indication of just who this man might be. No one outside Church of Godland is smart enough or converted enough to carry on this role. 

So who might this man be? One guess as to who this is being described below:

Could he be one who has restored information on church history, doctrine, prophecy, and the reason that God created anything? Could he be one reaching people around the world with the Gospel of the Kingdom of God in over 1,000 different languages? Or has God not chosen to have him do much at this stage?

Any guesses? This is who it is NOT talking about:

Was it Herbert W. Armstrong?
No.

BUT...a BIG BUT, Herb thought he might be and because he thought he might be this also gives the end-time prophet justification for thinking that he is Elijah and one of the two witless witnesses:

Did Herbert W. Armstrong ever think he might be Elijah? 
 
Most definitely. 
 
The late evangelist Raymond McNair admitted:

However, on occasion, Mr. Armstrong may have expressed some doubt in regard to his calling and ministry, concerning himself being the end-time “Elijah,” (McNair, Raymond. Was Mr. Armstrong Who He Said He Was? Ad in Connection’s section of The Journal, June 30, 2004).
Yes, HWA expressed some doubt–not simply may have. Herbert W. Armstrong admitted to Aaron Dean, his long-time personal aide (and Aaron Dean told me this personally on several occasions for over the past two+ decades) that he might not have understood the biblical passages on the Elijah correctly before he died, and that God could raise someone else up to fulfill the Elijah role. Furthermore, HWA specifically expressed doubt to the late evangelist Dibar Apartian (and who also told me). Dibar Apartian did not believe that HWA was the Elijah when we discussed this several times and he agreed with me about this.

Using Raymond McNair and Dibar Apartian as sources of truth is ludicrous. These are two of the worst false teachers in the church.

Our crackpot prophet continues:

Those with a WCG background might find the following quote from Herbert W. Armstrong of some assistance here as he wrote:

Those called into the Church were called not merely for salvation and eternal life, but to learn the way of God’s government and develop the divine character during this mortal life in the Church age …   
 
Also Malachi 4:5-6 pictures the Elijah to come at the very end of the Church age (Mystery of the Ages. 1985, pp. 201, 349). 
 
And when was the “Church age” supposed to end according to Herbert Armstrong’s old church? Notice:

God has set before us an open door and no MAN can shut it. God can shut it, and He will when the work is finished and the Philadelphia Church goes to a place of safety. …The Laodicean Church is not going to be worthy to escape to a place of safety. When it is too late, they will find that the Church of Philadelphia has gone to safety (What Is the “LAODICEAN CHURCH”? Good News August 1959 Vol. VIII, Number 8). 
 
Now since the Church age has not ended, and the Day of the Lord has not yet come, then it follows that Elijah was to come on the scene publicly after this was written.

The mere fact that the Great Bwana has to quote Mystery of the Ages nonsense proves right off the bat he does not know what's is talking about. Who in the right mind looks at the MOA as accurate and the word of God? But, this does not stop the Great Bwana from setting himself up as the Elijah to come:

Now since the Church age has not ended, and the Day of the Lord has not yet come, then it follows that Elijah was to come on the scene publicly after this was written.
HWA, himself, wrote:

Jesus shall come, SOON NOW, to RESTORE ALL THINGS! He did NOT restore all things when he first came. John the Baptist did not “restore all things.” But the one who was to “restore all things” just before the “day of the Lord” and preparing the way for Christ’s second coming, was YET to come, in the future, as Jesus said. Now what are the “all things” to be RESTORED? “Restitution” means restore to a former state or condition (Armstrong HW. Brethren & Co-Worker Letter, August 24, 1982). 
 
Note that HWA states ONE (Elijah) comes just before the day of the Lord—an event that still has not occurred, hence some additional restoration beyond what HWA did is needed–and this has been happening in the Continuing Church of God. CCOG has restored more than any COG in the 21st century and under the human leadership of Bob Thiel it continues to do so. In time, God will make the final Elijah clear to all willing to see (this is NOT saying that he MUST be Bob Thiel–but we believe it will be a leader in CCOG).

I can state here and now with 100% confidence that this so-called Elijah will NEVER be Bob Thie, Steve Dupris, or any other self-appointed man from the improperly named "continuing" Church of God. That is a fact that cannot Bwana Bob can't be refuted. 

The delusional one continues:

Furthermore, it should be noted that a careful reading of another one of HWA’s articles supports the idea that the Philadelphia era will need to have something else be restored. HWA wrote:

This very WORK OF GOD for our day is foretold in the prophecy of Revelation 3:7-13. But there it is revealed that we, today, are a people of but little strength – little power (verse 8)! – within ourselves though we have faithfully KEPT GOD’S WORD! The impact of this WORK OF GOD today is going out only through the power of God! Are you having your part in this very WORK OF GOD? But – let’s face it! – WE DO NOT HAVE WITHIN OURSELVES, AS GOD’S INSTRUMENTS FOR HIS WORK TODAY, ANYWHERE NEAR THE POWER OF GOD THAT ACTIVATED THAT ORIGINAL FIRST-CENTURY CHURCH! For that very reason, the living Christ says (verse 8), He has opened to us the gigantic door of MASS COMMUNICATION! The magnified power of the microphone and the printing press. Yet that is only physical, mechanical power! The REAL POWER that makes God’s Work vital and alive is the Holy Spirit of God! (Armstrong HW. Christians Have Lost Their POWER! Plain Truth, Jun 1958). 
 
The Greek word translated as strength, dunamis, which HWA refers to as power, is the same Greek word that is normally translated as ‘miracle’ or ‘miracles’. Thus, Revelation 3:8 shows that the Philadelphia Church will have some type of miracles, and although I agree with HWA’s position that the initial power/miracle had to do with electronic media, I also agree with him that the old WCG did not have, “ANYWHERE NEAR THE POWER OF GOD THAT ACTIVATED THAT ORIGINAL FIRST-CENTURY CHURCH.” Thus, HWA acknowledged, howbeit indirectly, that the power of God had not been fully restored to his WCG. And it should be noted that dreams and gifts of prophecy were given to the first-century church (Acts 2:17-18) and thus, according to his own writing, there should be these type of occurrences at the end. One group in the 21st century has that (see Dreams, the Bible, the Radio Church of God, and the ContinuingChurch of God and How To Determine If Someone is a True Prophet of God). (Hyperlinks deliberatly removed)

There you have it, once again, there is NO ONE in the entire Church of God movement who can even be considered as Elijah since every single Church of God is a false church. 

So who does this leave for us to look forward to?

The Great Bwana himself! 


The false prophet and certified liar ends with this:

Sadly, just as many would not hear Elijah’s nor John the Baptist’s messages, relatively few will pay much attention to the end time Elijah as well.

That is not a surprise as most Christians in the end times were to be Laodicean, and Jesus warned the Laodiceans since they would not ‘get with the program,’ that they would be punished (Revelation 3:14-18).

Of course, if you are willing to believe the truth and do what the Bible teaches, that does not have to include you.

Anyone who believes the truth of the truth of the Bible and is a follower of Jesus knows for a FACT that Bob Thiel is NOT Elijah. The improperly named "continuing" Church of God is not a true church, empathically is NOT practicing first-century Christianity, and has no truth worthwhile for humanity to hear. That is a fact. An irrefutable fact! 

The Elijah’s restoring of “all things” means that he is to be restoring information that the true Church of God once understood, but later must have lost or misunderstood. 
 
The problem is that just as many would not hear Elijah’s or John the Baptist’s messages, relatively few will pay much attention to the end time Elijah as well.

This is a bald-faced lie. None of this is true and most certainly Bob Thiel is not and never will be some "Elijah" to come. Bob has been lying to the church since he started his cult in a fit of rebellion in 2012.

Steer clear of this liar and his sick cult!



18 comments:

  1. SquareBob SpongePants is no end-time Elijah. He is the (an?) end-time Diotrephes.

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  2. The Delusion runs deep in this one...

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  3. Or maybe it's "The Farce runs deep in this one..."

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  4. Any man who claims a Biblical title, can be discounted immediately. Glory to God only.

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  5. C'mon now, didn't prophets in the bible use firm, decisive terms instead of the vague ones Bob uses, such as "likely", "reasonable to consider", "could-he-be"? 

    And who cares if HWA had doubts whether he himself was the Elijah. Maybe that was one of the times HWA used good sense in thinking about something 1st.

    Why learn God's government from a guy who teaches us to question how many fellas may or may not have held "the mantle", when we are left to wonder if some of those guys held it at the same time or were tossing it around to each other behind our back? Or that it was basically snatched out of the hand of one guy, by the other?

    Does God assign a guy to take a mantle from another guy, without giving good notice? Or to let the guy(s) decide when to grab it off'n the other fella?

    When all things get restored in end times, does that allow for teaching to identify the man/men holding the mantle in those years by using take-your-pick guesswork? 

    Did CCOG restore God's government to a group that has Bradox Ochieng bouncing between governments (God's & then man's?)

    We don't know yet of how many will/or will not listen until it all starts happ'nin' 1st : "Sadly, just as many would not hear Elijah’s nor John the Baptist’s messages, relatively few will pay much attention to the end time Elijah as well." (it wasn't known beforehand how many Nineveh citizens would pay attention, or not...so why does the end time/maybe/possible/likely/Elijah know already to announce : "relatively few will pay much attention")?

    1000 + languages for Matt. 24:14 is impressive & necessary, but does that feat solidify the full resume to be complete on being an Elijah? Should a guy use his list of accomplishments to earn a title from God?

    Won't we hear from God who is granted a title? Do various dreams provide us God's voice? None of the dreamers have recited the words : "thus saith the Lord". But we're gaslighted into guilt & fear of losing our crown if we don't subscribe to all the dreams concretely relaying God's voice/message forth (devoid of the clause "thus saith the Lord" in each dream we are pelted with).

    Does God operate in a vague, post-LCG-ish style? Those who have observed LCG over the years may well feel that these new lessons are still too heavily spiced with stale, stodgy LCG style.

    Should people change the nametags on their Elijah chairs & empty place settings at the Passover table from Dave Pack to Bob? Or prudently leave them blank for now...

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  6. The only mantle that ever mattered was MICKEY MANTLE!

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  7. Elijah has come already - Mat 17:11-13
    Walk, Bob, walk.
    See Jane run.
    Bob: use all your crayons.

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  8. Interesting how as more time passes since HWAs death, more and more COGlodytes want to anoint themselves "Elijah".
    And in Bobs case that makes even less sense, since he wants to claim a "double portion". That was ELISHA, not Elijah!

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  9. Bob may be dealing with Mantle Health problems and even Theological Mantle Illness :)

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  10. Bob is such a slimy sleazeball. There is no way he is Elijah or any of the people he claims he is.

    All of his so-called dreams and visions are figments of a delusional and narcissistic mind. Bob is a classic test case for the DSM-5 book. Mental illness takes are shapes and forms and sadly many COG leaders exhibit many of these mental health issues.

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  11. Bob Thiel lying again stated:

    "...Sadly, just as many would not hear Elijah’s nor John the Baptist’s messages, relatively few will pay much attention to the end time Elijah as well..."
    ******
    That comment was so important to Bob Thiel, that he went ahead to repeat the lie using similar words:

    ...The problem is that just as many would not hear Elijah’s or John the Baptist’s messages, relatively few will pay much attention to the end time Elijah as well..."
    ******

    Truth of the matter is that many paid attention to John the Baptist; however, John the Baptist did not need to go out and try to "get" people to follow him and listen to his message, because John the Baptist was the workmanship of God's hands and God, by His Spirit, simply brought people to John the Baptist near the Jordan River that God wanted there with him.

    I am just going to cite part of a transcript of a 6 June 1998 sermon titled: "Baptism and the Laying on of Hands:"

    [...Look at what was accomplished within six months. Look at what the Spirit of God does when it wants to, to even this satanic world, to a religion that was once His, but really turned satanic in the Jewish religion, and to Jerusalem.
    Here John the Baptist comes bouncing along out there in the wilderness. So it says in verse 1, of chapter 3, of Matthew:
    Matthew 3:1 “In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea…”
    Now, as far as we know, that’s out in the wilderness...
    ...Matthew 3:4 “And the same John had his raiment of camel’s hair, and a leathern girdle about his loins; and his meat was locusts and wild honey.”
    Boy, I bet you this really painted a pretty picture, didn’t it? They had this wild man coming out of the desert running around with this camel hair coat, which quite frankly: camel hair coat is very nice. It is very nice, and it’s very expensive, but here he’s got. We’ve had some different views of this. He’s eating this locusts and wild honey. He’s living off of the land out there. So, in verse 5:
    5 “Then went out...”
    Get this: then went out…
    “…to him Jerusalem...”
    Then went out to him: all these people were coming out from Jerusalem…
    “...and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan,”
    This guy is running around in the wilderness talking about: “The end is near. The kingdom of God is at hand,” and all of these people are flocking out all over. Remember, no cell phones, no telephones, no telegraph and no faxes! Word of mouth: no speaker system! Word of mouth! Could the word of mouth have gone that quickly? No! That was the topic of the day, certainly, but God’s Spirit was driving people, and driving them around to do this. They all came out, all kinds of people...]

    Will Bob Thiel repent and acknowledge that many peeps, certainly a lot more than a "relatively few," were drawn to John the Baptist from Jerusalem, Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan to hear what God was inspiring him to speak?

    John the Baptist we know. God, who cannot lie, gives truth! But Bob Thiel, who is he?

    Time will tell...

    John

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  12. I admire Bob for starting the first Afro-Israeli ACOG, however, it's difficult to imagine that carrying him into Elijahood. (Bob's version of "the 'hood"?

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  13. The world doesn't need another Elijah. There's many excellent secular writers and YouTube channels articulating the world problems. Many for instance, are warning of the dangers of America's spiralling national debt.

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  14. I'm looking at pictures of Arroyo Grande/Grover Beach, sure is a nice place, nice weather all year round.

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  15. Anon, Tuesday, January 23, 2024 at 4:30:00 PM PST, said:

    "...The world doesn't need another Elijah..."
    ******
    That's true; the world doesn't need another Elijah, but Bob Thiel, with his "big head" of SELF, thinks otherwise, as he wrote the following:

    "...CCOG has restored more than any COG in the 21st century and under the human leadership of Bob Thiel it continues to do so. In time, God will make the final Elijah clear to all willing to see (this is NOT saying that he MUST be Bob Thiel–but we believe it will be a leader in CCOG)..."

    God does not need any leader in CCOG, b/c Elijah already came, but to believe that one has to accept the words of Jesus Christ, and not be driven by another spirit to believe another Jesus.

    I am just going to cite part of a transcript of a 20 June 1998 sermon titled: "Baptism and the Laying on of Hands," Part 3:

    [......let’s see; verse 4! It says; this is when they had this transfiguration they call it. This is when, of course, the Apostles, the disciples at this time, found out that John the Baptist was this Elijah to come in no uncertain terms....

    ......So, I wanted to clear that up, but in verse 5 as we’re coming into this, and reviewing this and getting up to speed, we see that out of this cloud God speaks or this angel is speaking for God. Sometimes it is God; sometimes it’s an angel, but this voice is directly, really, from God and is saying with that power! He says about all of this.
    Matthew 17:5 “…This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased...”
    He says:
    “...hear ye him.”
    Don’t make up your own ideas! Don’t make up your own theories about what’s happening. He says: hear you Him!
    Of course, the disciples heard it and fell on their faces. They were afraid, because this was a mighty voice and this was a mighty direct thing that came to them. This was an order from the Top! A lot of people say: “Hey, the buck stops here.”
    Well, I want to tell you something. The buck doesn’t stop here. The buck stops with Jesus Christ.

    ......So, they knew that this time though. It went all of the way right to the Father. When He said: “Hear you this,” wow! That was something, and so they paid attention. They weren’t going to miss this one.
    We learned then down in verse 13, or actually, let’s start in verse 11 here, because I did want to: I didn’t say this last week. It says:
    Matthew 17:11 “And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias...”
    Elijah
    “...truly shall first come, and restore all things.”
    He’s just basically quoting what the scripture has already said.
    We always took it like: “Jesus Christ was now coming up with His own statement,” and “Oh, oh, I see! Now, after all of that happened, now, finally somebody’s going to come, so it must be Mr. Armstrong!”
    Right! I mean; that’s how we all thought, but it’s not!
    You’ll find that when Christ would say things He would, when He’s going to quote the Bible: He would just quote it. He would quote what’s in there and it was always for a fulfillment of what was in the Old Testament. So, He goes on. He says:
    12 “But I say unto you, That Elias...”
    Elijah
    “...is come already...”
    So, it clarifies that statement! He has already come…
    “...and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed...”
    Whatever they wanted to do and:
    “...Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.”
    It’s talking about the same people!
    Matthew 17:13 “Then the disciples understood...”
    It says: then they understood...
    “...that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.”
    Period!
    He wasn’t a TYPE! He wasn’t an anti-type. He wasn’t a dualist. He wasn’t any of that stuff.
    He was a fulfillment of it......]

    When will Bob Thiel read/hear Jesus' words and understand that John the Baptist was the fulfillment of the one to come in the spirit and power of Elijah, and has absolutely nothing to do with himSELF/Bob Thiel or anything associated with his "continuing group?"

    Time will tell...

    John

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  16. I'm thinking of a meme! The caption reads: "Hello, I'm Dr. Bob Thiel! For Lent, I'm giving up self-aggrandizement!"

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  17. Those who claim to be Elijah usually end up being Fert-Elijah!

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