Canadian CGI Ministers Attack the Super Bowl "He Gets Us" Advertisement!
In Episode 71 of Keeping Watch (on the Rumble platform), two ministers and one deacon from the Canadian Church of God International attacked the Jesus Super Bowl ad on their weekly program. Pastors Adrian Davis and Murray Palmatier, accompanied by Deacon Jan Kowalczyk, said that the ad which depicted people washing the feet of sinners was heretical and should be rejected by true Christians. What was wrong with the ad? They didn't like the message: "Jesus didn't teach hate. He washed feet. He gets us. All of Us. Love thy neighbor."
Mr. Palmatier and Mr. Davis said that there were too many doctrinal errors to list in the thirty second ad, and they cautioned CGI members not to get caught up in the "emotionalism" of the ad! "What about us getting him?" Pastor Murray demanded. "How many times did Christ wash feet in the Bible?" he continued. "And whose feet did he wash?" Pastor Davis added. The answers, of course, are: one occasion, and he washed the feet of his disciples. "In every other case, it was his feet being washed by devotees," Pastor Palmatier pointed out. They went on to remind their audience that this ad appeared during the "Taylor Swift Super Bowl." In other words, the audience was huge - men and women watching. "These people hate Christ," Pastor Davis added, and he went on to say that the ad was full of "Marxist" ideas.
For me, the ad reflected the "Love thy neighbor" theme very clearly. When I was watching it, I was reminded of Christ's statement that he came here to serve, NOT to be served (Matthew 20:28 and Mark 10:45). Indeed, Christ's aim was to sacrifice himself so that our sins could be wiped away, and we could be reconciled to Almighty God. I also thought of a passage from the first epistle of John: "Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God. Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love. In this the love of God was made manifest among us, that God sent his only Son into the world, so that we might live through him. In this is love, not that we have loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. No one has ever seen God; if we love one another, God abides in us and his love is perfected in us." (I John 4:7-12, ESV). So, I'm thinking that it's Davis, Palmatier, and Kowalczyk who don't get Jesus and are promulgating heretical notions. The truth is that Armstrongites have always been uncomfortable with the concept of LOVE!
Lonnie Hendrix
More people learned about Jesus in this three commercial s than they ever have from a COG.
ReplyDeleteThese guys and everyone listening to them would have been much better off if they had simply exercised their right to remain silent. Don't get me wrong, its not that I don't believe in everyone's right to freedom of speech. It's just that people who are fucked in the head should be aware enough of their condition that they make a conscious effort to control themselves and to refrain from
ReplyDeletepoisoning others.
Love? fake name Lonnie? All you spew out from numerous fake names is criticism. You stalk others and spread ruin. When do you ever write about Jesus in this fake life or even in your real United Church of God life??????????
ReplyDelete10:57 stupidly wrote: “ Love? fake name Lonnie? ”. Oh give us a break! Can you be this stupid? Lonnie is his real name.
ReplyDeleteDoes CGI no longer practice foot-washing at Passover? Any ACOG member who has participated in the foot-washing has a better understanding than these CGI ministurds.
ReplyDelete"He gets us" implies that we are fine just as we are. Jesus loves you so you have nothing to worry about.
ReplyDeleteJesus says it's all about change. You cannot stay as you are, you must repent and living according to God's instructions, or you will be destroyed. That being said, Jesus is there to help us, forgiving our failings and helping us come out of the worldly way. Every single human being that has ever lived will have that opportunity at a time of God's choosing.
Lonnie doesn't understand "love". He's made it clear that to him, love is accepting people as they are, with no need to change. Satan is very good at twisting things around and presenting nice sounding arguments, which so many fall for.
Eh, Lonnie never passes up a chance to criticize the CGI. And he never lets truth stand in the way.
ReplyDeleteI posted a lengthy critique of this Superbowl ad on Lonnie's blog, "God Cannot be Contained". His response to the presentation was "judge not" (Matt.7:1)!
ReplyDeleteI was showing how it isn't just the CGI who have objections, but many Trinity believing, Sunday keeping orthodox Christians also opposed the ad's content. You can look these up on YouTube and judge for yourself.
The summary of the opposition is as follows:
1. The ad presents a FALSE Christ.
2. The ad presents a FALSE gospel.
3. The ad promotes the current political social agenda presenting Christ's approval of the LGBTQ movement, climate change, abortion, and race relations.
4. The ad misrepresents the Biblical concept and definition of LOVE (and HATE).
I (and the many others) questioned the purpose behind spending 17 million dollars on 90 seconds of ad time with social engineering content and WHO could afford such an expenditure. Most legitimate Church related organizations wouldn't do that, but those behind a political social agenda could and would!
I must have struck a nerve for my rebuke was "judge not that you be not judged", and a quotation from 1 Cor.13:4 to practice "love".
My response to this is, let's practice what we preach. Quit judging CGI (as exemplified by this post) and stop labeling everything they do as "promulgating heretical notions". I think they would truly appreciate the " love" !!!!!
BP8 6:42 said “I (and the many others) questioned the purpose behind spending 17 million dollars on 90 seconds of ad time with social engineering content and WHO could afford such an expenditure. Most legitimate Church related organizations wouldn't do that, but those behind a political social agenda could and would!”
DeleteYeah I think that money would seriously have been better spent on the poor, needy, fatherless, widows, strangers and innocent and I’m sure the apostle Paul would agree instead of wasting it on whatever the hell that TV promotion was.
God's love can change a repentant LGBT person. It cannot change an unrepentant Pharisee.
ReplyDeleteDuring His lifetime, Jesus was criticized for hanging out with thieves (tax collectors) and other sinners. He went to the people who needed Him and who were humble enough to receive Him. Many of the people attacking that ad are people who would criticize Jesus if they saw Him in person today.
My two cents ....
ReplyDeleteAs I have written many times before, Armstrongists do not relate to eachother through love. They relate to eachother through hierarchy. They are taught Hierarchy at Ambassador College, not in the classroom but in social interactions; its not taught as theory, but exemplified in daily practice. Their faculty-row leaders exemplified Hierarchy rather than love; rigorous bureacracy rather than Christian charity.
This makes it easy to understand why love is not easy for Hierarchists. Love transcends boundaries of class and race, as in the Superbowl Jesus ad, and this kind of egalitarianism is labelled "Marxist." This is because they seem to believe that love is in opposition to captialism. And captialism is the ultimate socioeconomic system of hierarchy. My guess is that these critics would consider the social safety net system of Third Tithe to be Marxist.
Certainly, Jesus feeding thousands of commoners with fishes and loaves is an example of anti-captialist practice. The AC way would have been to give the best seats to the upper classes, give the biggest fish and best loaves to the upper classes and collect a big price per plate from everyone.
Optimator
In my experience, people who fling the "Marxist" label around know nothing of Marx's writings... and usually what they are bitching about has nothing to do with Marx. Its just a media buzzword.
DeleteThose watching the football game learned more about Jesus in those several commercials than they would ever from Armstrongism! It is the COG that despises the New Covenant message.
ReplyDeletehttps://godcannotbecontained.blogspot.com/2024/02/some-things-never-change-jesus-and.html
ReplyDeleteWhose feet do they wash in the COGs?
ReplyDeleteWhen the writer capitalizes LOVE [and NOT in other missives] you know they think they know what they are talking about
ReplyDelete8:18 AM wrote:
ReplyDeletecaptialism is the ultimate socioeconomic system of hierarchy
Clearly he has never heard of feudalism. He seems to be smashing words together without understanding what the words mean. He also needs to learn that the word is spelled capitalism rather than captialism, the misspelling he uses three times (showing that it isn't just a typo). Armstrongism is a toxic philosophy, but Anon 8:18 AM is just confused.
CGI's Davis asked whose feet did Jesus wash?
ReplyDeleteThe answer is Jesus washed the feet of sinners. Yes, Jesus washed the feet of his disciples. Those disciples were sinners no better than those getting their feet washed in the ad.
The only feet that can ever be washed are the feet of sinners. Thank Jesus for cleansing us - with physical healing touch and spiritual healing.
Armstrongism rejects the doctrine of Justification whereby the righteousness of Jesus purifies sinners to be perfectly righteous. In practice, Armstrongism rejects the new command Jesus gave to love our neighbors, as evidenced by how the CGI ministers ridiculed the ad's concept of Jesus understanding what sinners need. Armstrongism rejects God's command that we wash our neighbors feet, in whatever practical, physical, spiritual manner that they need.
With preference for the law that they don't really keep, Armstrongites reject Jesus as the antidote that every sinner/person needs - they reject Jesus as the all-sufficient Savior.
Instead, Armstrongites smugly believe that only they observe a foot-washing ritual that is acceptable to God. Armstrongites only ritualistically wash the feet of other Pharisee Armstrongites, only one and done day of the year. That gives the Armstrongites plenty of time to mock Christians who care for the needs of their neighbors and want everyone to know that Jesus understands them in their personal struggles, loves them, and offers all the help they need.
Lonnie: thanks for posting this; it is an act of love to expose the misdeeds of those who are leading people astray, instead of leading them to Jesus.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Delete"These people hate Christ," Pastor Davis added...
ReplyDeleteAnd who is CGI trying to reach... really?
The point about others washing Jesus's feet is accurate. But it's worth nothing that the two people who do it are female. No segregated foot-washing, as COGs (and SDAs) tend to do during the Lord's Supper service.
The commercial and Lonnie's love talk is a lot of baloney. The bible instructs to live by every word of God rather than only some of God's words. Otherwise a wrong picture is painted. Mushy protestant love talk needs to be clarified by reading the book of Psalms. Christ quoted from this book, so it's hardly "outdated OT stuff." Consider how many times David asked for the punishment of his foes. Accountability scares the crap out of moral compromisers, so they shun the book like leperacy.
ReplyDeleteBtw, "forgiveness" isn't like a reset button on a video game whereby reality is wiped away. Natural consequences are still in operation. Esau found that out the hard way after he sold his birth right for a bowl of stew. He couldn't get it back.
Feb. 21 at 9:41 pretty much sums up one cluster of reactions: "The commercial and Lonnie's love talk is a lot of baloney."
ReplyDeleteIn parlance that has recently gained widespread use, Jesus is "woke." A whole batch of people these days reject all things woke. They are the ones who, as 8:01 says, "would criticize Jesus if they saw Him in person today." Me, I think 8:01 goes too easy on these people. They would not merely criticize, they would reject Jesus' words in the Sermon on the Mount. They would reject the lesson of the Good Samaritan that we should reach out and help those who have been abused even if they are outside our group. They would reject the admonition that we should treat other people the way we would like to be treated.
I am amazed that such a person can look in the mirror and see a Christian.
Theres another buzzword that people throw around incorrectly, "woke". Some of the paid commentators on TV seem to think it means just about anything they dont like.
DeleteMan you armstrongists would strain a gnat and swallow a camel. lol
ReplyDeleteNo wonder your movement is deader than your grand poobah HWA. You guys throw stones at television ads. Might as well be like butthurt Bobby Thiel and not watch the Super Bowl if its gonna get your knickers in such a twist. You all are the most judgmental, obnoxious, pretentious, bunch of holier than thou nervous nancies.
Oblivion is preferable to any of you being in charge.
The views of the CGI pastors and some of the comments in this thread vividly illustrate the difference between Armstrongism and Christianity.
ReplyDeleteIn Armstrongism, you must clean yourself up and conform to Armstrongite rules before you can go to church or go before God. After you've done all the work required, you can feel smugly content that you are so righteous, compared to your false Christen neighbors. Because you are clean and your neighbors are unclean you should not get too close to them; obviously, you should never wash the feet of swine.
In Christianity, Jesus finds us in our sinful state, lifts us up, cleans us, and empowers us to wash the feet of the unclean, as a way of life. Jesus does all the work, while we marvel at his compassion for us in allowing us to experience his love when we wash the feet of those who need Jesus.
My thanks to 9:19, 10:25, 1:17, 8:01, Optimator, RSK, Trooisto, Retired Prof, and 11:29 for your contributions to this thread.
ReplyDeleteHebrews 4:14 Since then we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus, the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession. 15 For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin. 16 Let us then with confidence draw near to the throne of grace, that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need.
" Anonymous Trooisto said...
ReplyDeleteCGI's Davis asked whose feet did Jesus wash?
The answer is Jesus washed the feet of sinners."
Actually, it was the feet of those chosen by God the Father. They would carry on the ordinance by teaching it to those called by the Father and have repented and been baptized.
Most overlook the fact that The Church is composed not of volunteers, but of draftees.
How about: 4 year "deadline" to repent? Luke 13:1-9.
ReplyDeleteDear readers,
ReplyDeleteDon't allow yourselves to be deceived by posts such as Feb, 11.25 pm. All his/her talk of the Good Samaritan, helping the abused, treating others as we would like to be treated etc, is bull. I was once deceived by this nonsense, and the result? I spent dozens of hours chauffeuring members in my car, yet when I had a car accident and asked members for a lift to services, I was abused for just asking. That's the way this helping others garbage is supposed to work. It's closet communism. It's the foxes talking to the chickens. A German scientist, who might not have cared about others, discovered the different blood types. This enabled successful blood transfusions which saved millions of lives. Yet it's people like the late Sister Teresa who are put on a pedestal rather than this scientist. How many lives did she save? Seventy percent of America's federal budget goes to wealth transfer. Today's "Christian" churches are doing the same with their tortured interpretation of the bible. Don't trust your lying ministers or people like 11.25.
Yeap, beware the Pharisees.
"He Gets Us" got far more wrong than right. But if those ads move people to a Jesus that is the first step in moving people to the Jesus.
ReplyDeleteLonnie: thanks for posting this; it is an act of love to expose the misdeeds of those who are leading people astray, instead of leading them to Jesus.
ReplyDeleteActually, it is an act of self-interest to promote Lonnie's version of "Jesus" and other bad scholarship.
Anon 2/20/919 and 2/21/911
ReplyDeleteI'm curious. What exactly did you learn about Jesus from this ad?
JESUS DIDN'T TEACH HATE. HE WASHED FEET. HE GETS US. LOVE THY NEIGHBOR.
Jesus didn't teach hate so what did He teach? What exactly is HATE? It's not defined although one is implied.
He washed feet. Why? What exactly does that signify? It doesn't say.
He gets us. What exactly does He get about us? It doesn't say.
Love THY neighbor. What exactly does that mean and how does one do that? It doesn't say.
The ad answers none of these questions, so what exactly did you learn from it?
What we are SUPPOSED to learn is that Jesus is a political activist (climate change, abortion, race relations), something Lonnie has argued against many times over. I guess Jesus and politics is good here but Jesus and politics according to Bill Watson is bad!
We can learn as much about the ad by what it doesn't say as what it does say. If this is an attempt to reach the UNsaved, there is much lacking! 3 vague undefined things are said about Christ but nothing about His message, His character or saving work. Even the spirit of Lonnie's favorite texts (Hebrews 2:14-17, 4:14) are missing.
Scripture says, "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."
BUT
"How shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe on Him of whom they HAVE NOT HEARD", (Romans 10:13-14)?
17 million dollars was spent and I don't believe the unsaved got their moneys worth! Again, this is not just my opinion or the "evil" CGI'S, but the opinion of many, many orthodox Christians as well. If one will take the Armstrong bias and "hate" out of the equation, they might see it too!
BP8 9:50 Your analysis of the TV ad was spot on! Everything you said was exactly what I was thinking after watching it today on YouTube. It was a waste of money and so generic to be on the whole worthless.
DeleteHello BP8: I don't expect all messages and all art to resonate with all people yet I am surprised by the negative reactions this piece attracted.
ReplyDeleteYou asked several questions about the ad because you didn't see the information in the ad or in a few of the posts above. That's understandable from the standpoint that if someone has an adverse reaction to a message, they may not understand it no matter how much it is explained. I will try to answer your questions because I enjoy this topic.
I see the ad to be targeted at both unbelievers and believers. The message is a beautiful reminder to believers to love their neighbors like Jesus does.
You asked what washing feet signifies. The answer is foot washing is a metaphor for caring for the specific needs of your neighbors. Very few neighbors will literally need their feet washed but all neighbors need some type of compassionate touch.
You asked what is meant by "He gets us" - Jesus understands every sinner, every person because he was tempted just like us. Unbelievers and believers need to know, especially when in the depths of our darkest traumas that Jesus understands what we are going through and how it is impacted us. Like everyone, I've experienced some horrible stuff - in these sufferings the only consoling factor that sheds light on why I had to go through the bad times is a profound sense that now I have some understanding of what my neighbors are experiencing. That produces empathy and a call to aid them in their sufferings. To a lesser extent, I can understand the plight of all my neighbors in that ad - but Jesus completely gets them.
You also asked what love your neighbor means. Jesus commanded us to love our neighbors so that is a topic worthy of much more study than many religious groups will give it.
In this case love is a feeling, but more importantly love is action. We need to follow the example of Jesus and actively care for the needs of others. Loving others is being the eyes, hands, and heart of Jesus to those around us who need Jesus.
Certainly, unbelievers need to know that Jesus offers love, understanding, and assistance to all, regardless of their state. Also we believers always need reminders not to hate but rather to follow Jesus' example and command to love all.
Hello Anonymous of 5:46: I agree with what you wrote - technically.
ReplyDeleteHowever, I am also correct in stating that Jesus washed the feet of sinners - as all of the disciples were sinners, just like our neighbors depicted in the ad.
If you reject the concept of washing feet being a metaphor for actively caring for the needs of your unwashed neighbors, please provide information on how we should obey Jesus' command to love our neighbors? Also, please explain who are our neighbors; are they all the unwashed people of the world, regardless of their sin preferences, or are they only baptized members of a COG?
Hello Mark Wolfe: I watched the ad several times and I couldn't find what was wrong. Could you tell me what the ad got wrong?
ReplyDeleteI'm wondering if you may believe that it's permissible to hate our neighbors whose sexual sins are different than ours? Or, if we don't need to love our neighbors whose views on climate change differ from ours?
Does Jesus not understand the needs of both the abortion provider and the patient? Which of our neighbors in this ad does Jesus allow us to hate?
Thank you for sharing your insights!
BP8,
ReplyDeleteCommercials are like the Bible and other art forms - I find that we bring our own biases/prejudices to our evaluation/interpretation of whatever we are looking at. In other words, we bring our own perspective and baggage to these things. For me, the various pictures in this advertisement were images of people who have traditionally had problems with each other (hatred, prejudice, mistreatment) washing each other's feet. Likewise, I see this as an expression of love and service (which is exactly what Jesus was getting at in his institution of the example of foot washing, in my humble opinion).
I also think that the ad was very clear in underscoring Christ's identification of loving one's neighbor as yourself as one of the two great commandments which Christians are responsible for observing. As you know, this was central to Christ's message. He commanded his followers to love each other and said that this would identify them to the rest of the world as his disciples (John 13:34-35, the same chapter where we find the narrative about the foot washing service). That this has always been a central teaching of Christianity is easily verified in the writings of Paul and John. Paul wrote to the Romans that they should "Owe no one anything, except to love each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law. For the commandments, 'You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,' and any other commandment, are summed up in this word: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law."
In this connection, while those images of foot washing were being displayed, the lyrics of "Never Tear Us Apart" were playing in the background. You know:
"Don't ask me
What you know is true
Don't have to tell you
I love your precious heart
I was standing
You were there
Two worlds collided
And they could never tear us apart"
This reminds me of another passage from Paul's letter to the saints at Rome:
"Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword? ... No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord." (Romans 8:35-39)
So many of these comments provide an incredible example of how COGlodytes just cannot allow the good deeds of others to go unpunished!
ReplyDeleteAn individual who had not seen the commercials, and knew nothing about the contempt Armstrongites have for Classic Christians, would find himself wondering if somehow the network censors had allowed the AntiChrist to produce blasphemous commercials! Considering the condition of the world around us, I was astonished to learn that pro-Jesus commercials were even allowed on the Super Bowl. If any sport had allowed them, I would have imagined it would be NASCAR.
Trooisto 323
ReplyDeleteOne of the reasons I commented on this post was to show that it was not only the evil COGlodytes (anon 2/23/918) who had negative reactions, but many prominent orthodox Christian leaders and organizations likewise were very critical. It's been almost 2 weeks now, but you still might be able to find that criticism on YouTube if it hasn't been deleted.
The questions I asked was a summary of more than 25 YouTube posts by literally a who's who in the orthodox Christian world. I didn't ask because I didn't know the answers, but because the ad DIDN'T PROVIDE any answers! It left it to the viewer to define for himself "hate and love" based on what was presented to them.
I (and others) see more of an agenda being pushed than a legitimate effort to educate the public on the virtues and riches of Jesus Christ, but I know that's open to interpretation.
If the ad's intent was to accomplish everything you and Lonnie propose, then I think they wasted 17 million dollars! But if the purpose was (like many argue) to push forward a social engineered agenda that has the appearance of the rubber stamp of Jesus Christ then the money was merely a drop in the bucket. There's plenty of money available for that!
Trooista,
ReplyDeleteIt’s beneath you to opine to Wolfe whether he thinks it’s okay to hate his/your neighbor.
Footwashing is symbolic of washing away sins through Christ. He performed this action and we are told to do it to one another. It is symbolic that sin dirties us but that the sacrifice of Christ can clean us.
Obviously, what is not said is whether sin itself is being condoned; but, the commercial can simply be taken as a recognition that any can be forgiven by Christ and that we can show compassion and have compassion shown to us through the miracle of the Gospel.
" Anonymous Trooisto said...
ReplyDeleteHello Anonymous of 5:46: I agree with what you wrote - technically.
However, I am also correct in stating that Jesus washed the feet of sinners - as all of the disciples were sinners, just like our neighbors depicted in the ad."
To say that Jesus washed the feet of sinners and leave it at that is as misleading as the ad saying "Jesus gets us".
Every year we observe the Passover as a confirmation of our covenant with God to live according to His law. The bread and wine are symbols of Jesus' body that was given for us.
The foot washing represents a refreshing of our baptism, cleansing the part of us that is in contact with the world. (he that is bathed needs only to have his feet washed)
Washing the feet of the unbaptized (unrepentant) serves no purpose at all.
Jesus taught in parables so that the masses would not understand. The message is for a select few right now. The time is coming, however, when all will hear and understand.
Some Evangelicals have shared with me that people with demons won't look at pictures of Jesus, Crucifixes, or Crosses.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately, Jeff Flanick of the Medina, Ohio congregation delivered another broadside against the "He Gets us" ad at Sabbath services this morning. Rest assured, my broadside against his message will follow.
ReplyDeleteHello Anonymous at 6:36: I appreciate the reply! Now I finally have a bit of insight into why you find that ad to be wrong.
ReplyDeleteYou wrote, "Washing the feet of the unbaptized (unrepentant) serves no purpose at all." I disagree with your statement, as does Jesus! Jesus had a purpose for doing everything! Jesus did wash the unrepentant feet of Judas! Jesus' mercy toward Judas was an act of humility that serves as an example of Jesus' unconditional love and forgiveness available for all - even our neighbors in that commercial!
From your reply, it appears that you do reject the concept of washing feet being a metaphor for actively caring for the needs of your unwashed neighbors. However, as I have experienced when asking other Armstrongites to provide information on how we should obey Jesus' command to love our neighbors - you also did not provide an answer. I hope that you will provide information on that topic.
Also, your statement "Washing the feet of the unbaptized (unrepentant) serves no purpose at all." called to mind the Parable of the Good Samaritan. In that parable, the Samaritan cared for the wounds of the man and also paid for his convalescence. No mention was made about the repentance status of the wounded man. I see foot washing as similar to caring for wounds. I understand that parable to mean that Jesus is telling us to care for the needs of our neighbor - just as Jesus found us wounded and hopeless and picked us up, tended to our wounds, and paid for our safety. So again, I ask you who is your neighbor and how should you care for their needs?
You also mentioned your commitment to keeping God's law, so I ask is caring for the needs of unrepentant neighbors part of keeping God's law?
I'd much rather watch "He Gets Us" commercials on Super Bowl Sunday than being forced to watch documentaries about the concentration camps and propaganda films from the Third Reich like we were made to do at SEP in Tejas, or Ambassador College. Those caused nightmares for years!
ReplyDeleteI would have to believe that leaders of the ACOGs are very much smitten with jealousy that their groups are not receiving the prominence and attention for their message during a high profile event such as the Super Bowl. This attention is another thing that HWA had promised members in his false prophecies. The pride of the power they once enjoyed has been broken as splintering diffused the movement.
" Jesus did wash the unrepentant feet of Judas! "
ReplyDeleteDid He? Was Judas there at the time? That is something that many have looked into.
"From your reply, it appears that you do reject the concept of washing feet being a metaphor for actively caring for the needs of your unwashed neighbors."
ReplyDeleteFootwashing is part of the Passover observance. The world is not invited to that, yet.
I have given you an example to follow (originally posted 4 Feb 2024):
ReplyDeleteThe Armstrong Churches of God are quick to point out that Christians should be following Christ's example in observing the Sabbath and Holy Days. Of course, they completely ignore the fact that perfectly fulfilling the requirements of Torah was ESSENTIAL to Christ's mission to save humankind from eternal alienation from God. Unfortunately, they believe that the observance of those things makes them righteous in God's sight, and that blinds them to the fact that Jesus Christ is the only righteousness acceptable to Almighty God. Indeed, their approach to the only account we have (in all four Gospels) of Christ specifically instructing his disciples to follow his example embodies their entire approach to law and underscores their utter failure when confronted with metaphor in Scripture.
In the Gospel of John, we have an account of the Lord washing his disciples' feet (John 13:1-5). The Gospel informs us that Peter was flabbergasted at the suggestion that the Messiah would wash his feet (verses 6-8). Of course, after Christ corrected him, we are told that Peter immediately warmed to the idea (verse 9). Continuing with the account, we read: "After washing their feet, he put on his robe again and sat down and asked, 'Do you understand what I was doing? You call me ‘Teacher’ and ‘Lord,’ and you are right, because that’s what I am. And since I, your Lord and Teacher, have washed your feet, you ought to wash each other’s feet. I have given you an example to follow. Do as I have done to you. I tell you the truth, slaves are not greater than their master. Nor is the messenger more important than the one who sends the message. Now that you know these things, God will bless you for doing them.'" (John 13:12-17, NLT)
Although Christ was clearly reinforcing his message about servant leadership in this passage, the ACOG's have interpreted it as enjoining them to have a foot washing service once a year when they observe the Eucharist. Now, let me be clear, I enjoy the symbolism inherent in the foot washing service, and I have NO problem with anyone making this an integral part of their celebration of the Eucharist. Even so, if that's where it stops, please excuse me for pointing out that you have missed the ENTIRE point of the exercise! Moreover, judging by the history of how most of the ACOGs have governed themselves in the past, it is clear that they didn't get the message - that they are NOT following Christ's example in this instance!
In the Gospel of Matthew, we read that Christ called his disciples together and said: "You know that the rulers in this world lord it over their people, and officials flaunt their authority over those under them. But among you it will be different. Whoever wants to be a leader among you must be your servant, and whoever wants to be first among you must become your slave. For even the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve others and to give his life as a ransom for many." (Matthew 20:25-28, NLT) Indeed, Christ felt that this principle was so important that it appears again a little later in the same Gospel account (Matthew 23:11). So, I think that we are left with a legitimate question: Are the ACOGs really following Christ's example in this instance?
The COG does not celebrate, or participate in, or in any way acknowledge the Eucharist.
ReplyDelete11:36 - When I was part of the Worldwide Church and later CGI, we always partook of the bread and wine at Passover each year. I was not aware that the ACOGs had discontinued this practice.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous at 5:19 asked if Judas was present when Jesus washed the feet of the disciples.
ReplyDeleteMy answer is yes, all twelve disciples (that includes Judas) were present at the Last Supper.
Matthew 26:20 When evening came, Jesus was reclining at the table with the Twelve.
In John 13, another account of the Last Supper is provided, and that chapter starts with an obvious statement that Jesus loved his disciples to the end - here, Judas is not excluded from Jesus' love.
Verse 2 says the meal was in progress, verse 4 tells us that Jesus got up from the table, and verse 5 says that Jesus washed the disciples' feet - again, there is no statement that excluded or in any way singled out Judas, as Jesus did a few verses later.
In verse 10, Jesus does refer to Judas without naming him by saying, "And you are clean, though not every one of you.” Judas had to be present to be the one of the "you" who was not clean.
In verse 10 Jesus was speaking to the twelve about washing their feet, referring to them with plural you, and then announces one of the "you" was not clean.
Verse 12 reports that Jesus finished washing their feet but does not say one of the twelve was excluded.
In verse 21, Jesus announces that one of the twelve would betray him.
Judas was still present at the setting of the Last Supper because Jesus hands Judas the bread, to identify him as the betrayer in verse 26.
Judas was at the Last Supper from the beginning and remained through the foot washing portion - Jesus singled him out only after Jesus had finished with the foot washing.
If Jesus had not washed the feet of Judas, that would have been a fine way to identify Judas as the one who would betray Jesus.
However, Jesus chose a different manner to later expose Judas.
Apparently, Armstrongism uses John 13 to develop their version of a foot washing ritual that is only available to Armstrongites - everyone else is excluded.
ReplyDeleteThankfully, John 3:16 assures us that God loves the whole world, not just Armstrongites.
To the best of my knowledge and personal experience, Armstrongism ignores the new command Jesus gave to love one another, in John 13:34.
While the "false" Christians look at the whole 13th chapter of John and conclude that Jesus provided an example of how to love others by washing the feet of the disciples.
We understand that foot washing was obviously symbolic of serving the needs of others because Jesus told them it was not for cleaning purposes.
I still cannot get an Armstrongite to define who their neighbors are and how they obey Jesus' command in John 13:34 to love them.
Yet, Armstrongites seem to be very angry about people using foot washing as a metaphor for following Jesus' command to love one another.
Apparently, it's especially egregious in Arsmstrongism to show this type of love to those of the world loved by God who happen to be in a state of needing Jesus the most.
Armstrongites love to discuss how they love the law - but, in reality, they have such disregard for the law that they decide to ignore most of it and ridicule those who want to obey the law instructing us to love neighbors.
Sounds like Armstrogites need a good foot washing along with those sinners they dread the most.
Lets get the two groups together and make a new commercial for next year's Super Bowl.
Yea! Wouldn't It just be a gas if next year's ad had an AI created holographic video of HWA and the Pope washing each others' feet???
ReplyDeleteIn John 13:18, Jesus says that one of those at the table with Him would betray Him. The disciples ask if they are the ones to whom Jesus is referring.
ReplyDeleteIn John 13:26 Jesus says, “It is he to whom I shall give a piece of bread when I have dipped it.” Who does Jesus give it to? Judas Iscariot. John 13:30 says that “having received the piece of bread, he then went out immediately.”
If Judas went out immediately after supper, was he even there for the New Passover observance?
It sounds like Judas left before, because he left immediately after taking the piece of bread.
Jesus didn't wash the disciples' feet until supper was over.
So go back and read it again. Was Judas even there when the new Passover symbols were instituted? Did Jesus wash the feet of Judas?
Sure doesn't look like it.
John 13:1-17 The account of Christ washing his disciples' feet, and his explanation of why he had done it.
ReplyDeleteJohn 13:18 I am not speaking of all of you; I know whom I have chosen. But the Scripture will be fulfilled, ‘He who ate my bread has lifted his heel against me.’ 19 I am telling you this now, BEFORE it takes place, that when it does take place you may believe that I am he.
John 13:21 AFTER saying these things, Jesus was troubled in his spirit, and testified, “Truly, truly, I say to you, one of you will betray me.” 22 The disciples looked at one another, uncertain of whom he spoke. 23 One of his disciples, whom Jesus loved, was reclining at table at Jesus' side, 24 so Simon Peter motioned to him to ask Jesus of whom he was speaking. 25 So that disciple, leaning back against Jesus, said to him, “Lord, who is it?” 26 Jesus answered, “It is he to whom I will give this morsel of bread when I have dipped it.” So when he had dipped the morsel, he gave it to Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot. 27 Then after he had taken the morsel, Satan entered into him. Jesus said to him, “What you are going to do, do quickly.” 28 Now no one at the table knew why he said this to him. 29 Some thought that, because Judas had the moneybag, Jesus was telling him, “Buy what we need for the feast,” or that he should give something to the poor. 30 So, after receiving the morsel of bread, he immediately went out. And it was night.
Hence, it is CLEAR that Jesus washed Judas Iscariot's feet.
So you're saying that after the NT Passover observance, Jesus dipped the bread and gave it to Judas?
ReplyDeleteThe scriptures don't seem to support that.
Foot washing is only mentioned in John. Comparing the other gospel accounts might lead one to believe that Judas left before Jesus instituted the new symbols.
ReplyDeleteAs usual, many approach the bible with preconceived ideas and read them into the text. That's how Sunday, Christmas, Easter, Heaven/Hell, etc etc continue to this day.
Hello 5:40: I don't know what/how you are reading. In John 13, verse 5 says Jesus washed their feet. In John 13:26, Jesus identified Judas as the betrayer by handing him the bread - that's 21 verses after Jesus washed feet.
ReplyDeleteHello other 5:40: please read John 13:26:
ReplyDeleteJesus answered, “It is he to whom I will give this morsel of bread when I have dipped it.” So when he had dipped the morsel, he gave it to Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot.
Anonymous Trooisto said...
ReplyDeleteHello 5:40: I don't know what/how you are reading. In John 13, verse 5 says Jesus washed their feet. In John 13:26, Jesus identified Judas as the betrayer by handing him the bread - that's 21 verses after Jesus washed feet.
Tuesday, February 27, 2024 at 5:18:00 PM PST
Assuming that the story is written chronologically one would come to that conclusion. Even to this day when we tell a story we bounce back and forth and the hearer has no problem keeping the timeline straight. When we write it down, however, that makes it more difficult to follow.
Did Jesus stop during supper to wash their feet? Did He then continue with supper, dipping the bread and handing it to Judas?
Or, did He dip the bread near the end of supper and give it to Judas, who then went out immediately?
The others didn't think much of Judas leaving, thinking that he was going to buy supplies for the Passover observance.
Seems like after Judas left the NT Passover symbols were instituted.
Study all of the accounts, not just John's Gospel.
Scholars have debated this issue for a long time. There is still uncertainty.
I think people are trying to use the foot washing to show Jesus' love for all of mankind so they can then say, "see, He loves us so we're all ok". The same as the ad saying "He gets us". It's like pushing a "Sunday resurrection" so they can justify their Easter celebration.
ReplyDeleteThe foot washing is part of the Passover observance. It is only for The Church, those called by the Father. No one on the outside will fully understand it. Trying to cut the foot washing out and apply it to the world in general is a perversion, much like using the rainbow to push the homosexual agenda.
The washing of each other's feet is a show of love within The Church.
It appears to me that Judas had his feet washed, but did not take of the bread and wine
ReplyDeleteHello 6:16: you have strong opinions but you forgot to back them with Holy Scripture.
ReplyDeleteYou wrote:
"The foot washing is part of the Passover observance. It is only for The Church, those called by the Father."
When Jesus washed the feet of the disciples, the action was not part of an Armstrongite Passover Service. The foot washing happened during a Jewish Seder - which is very different from an Armstrongite Passover Service.
Scripture does not say that foot washing is only for Passover, or only for the church - but you do.
I have no problem with you establishing your own customs based on an assumption drawn from a passage in the Bible. I hope you would agree that others don't need to accept your customs as facts, due to the lack of the "thus sayeth the Lord" factor. I hope you also understand that due to Herbie's record of hundreds of failed prophecies, most will not accept his authority to make anything binding on the church.
Would you agree that the parable of the Good Samaritan (Luke 10:25-37) is somewhat like foot washing? Jesus found us in a ditch, practically dead, cleaned us up, and paid for our healing - and asks us to do the same for others. Foot washing is a mere minor act when compared to all that the Good Samaritan did for the stranger. So what is wrong with literally, or more likely, figuratively, washing the feet of someone in need?
"The foot washing happened during a Jewish Seder - which is very different from an Armstrongite Passover Service."
ReplyDeleteThere was no Jewish Seder at that time. The Seder was developed by the rabbis after the destruction of the temple in AD70 to keep the Passover observance going.
Feet can be washed at any time and it can be a show of love and respect, but in the context of the Passover service (which is the scope of this discussion) it is only for The Church. I would think that the people here would know that, even though they might not like it. (if HWA taught it, it must be evil, right?)
Hello 5:08 - I will your word that the Seder was a later invention and stand corrected. I also appreciate the acknowledgement that feet washing, as a sign of love and respect can be done at anytime. So do we agree that there's nothing wrong with the feet washing depicted in the Super Bowl ad?
ReplyDeleteHowever, I cannot take your word about anything related to HWA and his "church" because you did not cite any scriptural authority. If the event at which Jesus washed the feet of the disciples did not happen at a Jewish Seder, it did happen at a Jewish Passover meal - not an Armstrongite church service - because no Masonic Lodges existed at that time.
" So do we agree that there's nothing wrong with the feet washing depicted in the Super Bowl ad?"
ReplyDeleteDepicting Jesus washing the feet of the world is very wrong.
Hello 5:54: thank you for that contribution; it went a long way toward showcasing Armstrongite thought/practice/doctrine.
ReplyDeletePerhaps, the Bible should be re-written to be more inclusive of Armstrongite beliefs, starting with John 3:16, as follows:
"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, but did not love the world to the point of washing their feet - and neither should you."
Or, maybe you'd prefer:
"For God so loved Armstrongites, but not the world, that he gave his one and only Son for the Armstrongites, but the feet of the world shall perish."
That ad is art, and everyone can have their own take on art. I did not see the people who were doing the foot washing to be Jesus - but rather, they seemed to be people who are often considered to be opposed to the people whose feet they are washing. However, I see your point about Jesus, he equips us to do good works, as we follow his lead. Therefore, we are the hands and heart of Jesus, as we assist individuals of the world that Jesus loves.
Well Trooisto, I'm disappointed that's you've chosen to go that way. When your arguments can't stand you switch to ridicule.
ReplyDelete"Ridicule is man's most potent weapon. There is no defense. It is almost impossible to counterattack ridicule. Also it infuriates the opposition, who then react to your advantage."
Saul Alinsky
Rules For Radicals
Hello 6:04: your comment is fascinating.
ReplyDeleteArmstrongites, especially ministers, are known to ridicule the beliefs of "false Christians" while also not being hyper-sensitive to any criticism directed their way.
You did not challenge, as being incorrect, my re-write of John 3:16, to be inclusive of Armstrongite thought and practice.
My Armstrong-compliant reworking of John 3:16, is such an accurate depiction of the Armstrongite posts above, as well as the preaching from Armstrongite pulpits, that it deserves to be repeated:
"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, but did not love the world to the point of washing their feet - and neither should you."
Perhaps it is just my odd imagination but I believe that you, or someone like you, left clues above that indicate you are a minister. If, by chance, I got that correct, it would be appreciated if you'd acknowledge your status within your church.
Regarding Alinsky, I don't care to be an expert, but I do believe that he advocated accusing your opposition of being guilty of the very problems your party perpetrated - like you did.
Perhaps Alinsky developed his Rules for Radicals by observing Herbie brainwash the people, while building his insular, non-foot-washing empire.
Jesus didn't respond to ridicule and it looks like 6:04 AM doesn't either.
ReplyDelete