This is the disgusting legacy that the Church of God movement will always have tarnishing its already sick reputation when it comes to the use of medical help. The needless loss of life of hundreds, if not thousands of people over the decades due to the aberrant teachings of Herbert Armstrong and his illegitimate progeny lording themselves of today's splinter groups regarding the use of the medical profession is appalling. Sadly, it is always the members who suffer and never the leadership or the ministry since they all tend to make regular use of doctors.
Teen-Age Girl in PCG Dies:
April 14, 2024
I was devastated to hear about Kaitlyn Michelle Davis, the 19 year old unbaptized girl in PCG from North Carolina, who died of health issues. She evidently did not go see a doctor. She had struggled with health issues for several years and which gradually worsened. Finally her health took a “sudden turn for the worse” After “counseling” with the ministry, she decided she “wanted her life totally in God’s hands” and so she put her faith in God to heal her. Her health deteriorated and her pain became severe until she eventually died last October. The funeral service was held by Wik Heerma. She leaves behind a mother and two younger sisters. I wish these Armstrong cults that are scamming, deceiving and causing people’s lives to be cut short would be investigated and shut down! –[name withheld] Exit and Support Network
Jesus could hardly be pleased with Gerald or Stephen Flurry. (or with Cal Culpepper, or Greg not-so-Nice, et al).
ReplyDeleteThey are pious, callous remote-control & hands-off tithe-collectors who should have helped this girl Kaitlyn Davis but didn't.
They have demerits racked up against them, despite gloating & thinking they are gaining kingdom "brownie points".
The Apostle Luke himself was a physician & would have stepped in quicker to help her than the way these PCG mafia dons just wring their greedy hands raking in tithes upon tithes. She trusted her life to them & they ought to transfer their Edmond h.q. to Alcatraz Isle.
Kaitlyn likely knew some fond fellas her age who PCG advised her "against" dating, & they would have helped her find medical advice whether PCG corporate appoved it, or not. What a shame. But even Bob T. will just chalk even this tragedy up to : "oh well, the timing is just fine, all is well, it'll be fixed in the kingdom, carry on. Next case, please".
Terribly sad reading if this is the case. And sadly not uncommon to hear about.
ReplyDeleteI have read many similar stories from ex JWs.
In the ‘service’ of God man has become monsters.
Of all the creatures that walk on this planet it seems humanity are the most inept incompetent and brutality savage of all species towards their own kind.
Certainly Armstrongism in all its ‘variants’ with their practices and theology, and the above mentioned JWs, are far removed from the gospels, as a quick reading will testify.
The sad reality is that there are many who are perfectly happy and at home within these organisation’s.
Time to sit down and have a strong drink……….
They should be sued for religious malpractice & depraved indifference. Flurry is a destroyer of families and causes harm to innocent people affected by his phony commisars masquerading as ministers.
ReplyDelete“PCG: Another Young Person Dies Due Abhorrent Church Doctrines”
ReplyDeleteDo not be surprised.
Satan did send his favorite false prophet Gerald Flurry to LIE, STEAL, DESTROY, and KILL.
Gerald is doing a good job of his bad job.
Medical suicide, induced by a non-mainstream set of beliefs. But, in Armstrongism, that's an honorable thing. Not being baptized, though? Does she get her crown?
ReplyDeleteI'm sure that this honor-suicide insulates those closest to the young lady from asking the normal self-guilt trip questions, however, the leaders who promoted the extreme beliefs should be devoting some thoughts to an obvious breakdown or failure. That's what all the non-Armstrongite relatives would be thinking or hoping about the PCG. Sadly, the ministers are probably proud of what she did.
Armstrongism perverts the soul of its devotees.
N Herb-land, only the big people ministers have a right to make decisions. By contrast, the ordinary members are expected to blindly obey the decisions made for them via "counseling."
ReplyDeleteStar Trek's Borg are not pulled out of thin air. They represent how the ministers of many denominations believe ideal members to be. It's all about power and control.
And as our Dennis has pointed out here, these Borg-Queen ministers were never given any special training at AC when made ministers. One could get just as good advice from street sweepers as from these unqualified "ministers."
Maybe there's more to this story than what I'm reading in the post, because as written this is very misleading!
ReplyDelete"Another young person dies due to abhorrent church doctrine"??
" the needless loss of thousands due to abhorrent church teachings"?
19 year old . .
"died of health issues (not named)"
"did not go to see a doctor"
"SHE DECIDED she wanted her life totally in God's hands"
"SHE put HER FAITH in God" ! !
What more do you people want? Are we against freedom of choice now or is the implication she was coerced and had no choice?
I'm fully aware of the past teachings of the church on health, but I also know that the record of the medical profession is dismal at best. What makes you think they could have helped? They kill off (at least) 700,000 per year (that are reported) due to medical screw ups, and that doesn't even factor in the opiode fiasco.
Maybe something or someone could have helped her condition, but not knowing the specifics makes it hard to say. I will say that choosing to put yourself in God's hands is a good thing, not a bad thing.
You belong in the PCG 100%
DeleteLet's be fair. I don't know if every splinter group.says that you can't see a doctor or take medicine. I believe that Living Church of God says you can take medicine and some of the other groups may have the same policy.
ReplyDelete"Are we against freedom of choice now or is the implication she was coerced and had no choice?"
ReplyDeleteBPS, we're talking about a high control cult. The people who joined and then left these groups, were they coerced and without choice, or were they deceived and brain washed? The bible acknowledges undue influence with its 'call no man you teacher or master.'
The thing is, BP8, (and Jeez, doesn't your screen name sound like a Borg name!), we all know how stringent the medical doctrines Flurry teaches are. A member was not allowed to take Passover one year, because in counseling it came out that they had used a little Neosporin (medical cream with antibiotics) on a cut. An elderly lady was told by Flurry that she could not take her glaucoma medication, and she went blind. They make this sound voluntary, and a matter of personal choice for the benefit of outsiders, but the understanding of insiders is that if you wish to remain in good standing with PCG, basically there only is one choice. Barbara Flurry set the example by dying without so much as the relief a couple of aspirins might provide for the pain as her body was consumed by disease.
ReplyDeleteIt would have been one thing during the early Christian era, when God's healing was available through Jesus and the disciples/apostles, to hedge for people to hedge their bets by going to shamans, but these ACOGs act as if such miracles still exist as an exclusive to their little groups. We all know better based on actual occurrences. To make a young teenager believe that she must trust something which today is nothing more than a myth is perhaps the cruelest example of brainwashing. I personally have not been to the doctor in about 30 years. But I recognize that even if the medical profession isn't 100% reliable, they do manage to get many things right, and they are very good at palliative care. People in these ACOGs at least need not endure the extreme pain one might experience as one's body is consumed with cancer. It is common to take better care of pets in pain than these churches allow their members who are terminal.
I for one don't wish to be so calloused as to think "Oh well, one less Armstrongite" every time we learn that someone has died in these circumstances. It is their business, not mine. It does seem like another part of the cult that's just a total waste, just like all the money members plough into the group, and the atrophying of the mind when members allow despotic ministers to do their thinking for them. It would be different if these groups were who and what they say they are, but they are not.
BP8, Tuesday, April 16, 2024 at 6:03:00 AM PDT, said:
ReplyDelete"...Maybe there's more to this story than what I'm reading in the post, because as written this is very misleading!
"Another young person dies due to abhorrent church doctrine"??
" the needless loss of thousands due to abhorrent church teachings"?
19 year old . .
"died of health issues (not named)"
"did not go to see a doctor"
"SHE DECIDED she wanted her life totally in God's hands"
"SHE put HER FAITH in God" ! !
What more do you people want? Are we against freedom of choice now or is the implication she was coerced and had no choice?
I'm fully aware of the past teachings of the church on health, but I also know that the record of the medical profession is dismal at best. What makes you think they could have helped? They kill off (at least) 700,000 per year (that are reported) due to medical screw ups, and that doesn't even factor in the opiode fiasco.
Maybe something or someone could have helped her condition, but not knowing the specifics makes it hard to say. I will say that choosing to put yourself in God's hands is a good thing, not a bad thing.
******
Excellent comment since none of us has all of the facts. Judging/blaming flesh and blood (Phil 6:12) does not accomplish anymore today than it did the days of Adam, which is like people placing all blame on some Trojan horse.
Tis sad when anyone dies, regardless of age, but this young person no longer suffers. We all suffer daily in different ways. We're learning to hate evil.
This young person no longer experiences pain, and when she is resurrected there will be "no more pain" in her life.
Did she think about the future? I suspect she did; time will tell.
Did she pray and hope for healing? Of course, she did the best she could with what she had.
Did others pray/hope for her healing and salvation?
Why not be encouraged with some words of Jeremiah?
"Heal me, O LORD, and I shall be healed; save me, and I shall be saved: for thou [art] my praise." Jeremiah 17:14
Healed! Saved, too?
Why not be encouraged by some words of the Apostle Paul?
"To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them..." 2 Cor 5:19
Those words were inspired by God, who cannot lie. If they're not true, then toss the Book!
Why not be encouraged by some words of Jesus Christ, who received them from His God: His faithful Father, who loves us?
John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
Isn't that sufficient? Anything else needed?
To be continued…
John
Continuing…
ReplyDeleteThe old Johnny Carson spiel, paraphrasing: "Everything you want to know is in this book!....No, oh, there's more...!"
John 3:17 "For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved."
What else is needed if God did not succeed with sending His Son? We are all going to die. We have all sinned. We will pay the wages, but will we, like this young 19 year old person, live again?
The prayers of all who prayed for this young lady, I believe, will be answered with an end result of healing/salvation, but it won't be by our will being done, but by Thy (God's) will be done, and God will not lose one: one human being. Satan and his angels were made to be destroyed...later.
Tis the season: Christ our Passover was sacrificed for us, us human beings: not for Satan and his angels. Even the Old Testament sacrificial system had no sacrifice for murderers. Satan and his angels are liars and murderers, and for that reason God had this to say about David:
"Because David did [that which was] right in the eyes of the LORD, and turned not aside from any [thing] that he commanded him all the days of his life, save only in the matter of Uriah the Hittite." 1 Kings 15:5
How does David get around that one? He doesn't, but enter the life and death of Jesus Christ, our Passover, who was murdered by Satan through others.
Anyway, sad for those living who knew the girl. We can't change anything, but she will live again, and it is pictured by numerous scriptures that pertain to God's seventh annual Holyday: the Great Last Day.
Think about the joy and happiness to occur when this young girl is reunited again with all who knew and prayed for her, all who will come to know the faithful God who made that all possible by the power of His Spirit via His Son (I Cor 8:6).
Think about what will happen when Abel is reunited with Cain and their parents? Big hugs are coming, especially when they realize the cause of evil (I John 3:12) in Cain's life.
How about Jesus' friend Judas (another pawn of Satan) when he lives again?
Does it seem too unrealistic? Think about Joseph when he was reunited with his family in Egypt (first head of the Beast): God worked it all together for good.
This is not to excuse whatever evils happened in Flurry’s organization (could choose any xcog Ass, Org, group headed by hirelings of the former WCG), because it is appointed once to die for each of us; however, God has numerous examples of these positive things, shadows and patterns of things to happen in the future, and we have lots of reasons to be encouraged, but...
Time will tell...
John
DIFFERENTIAL DISCLOSURE
ReplyDeleteTo the various big government authorities, That False Prophet Gerald R. Flurry will emphasize that joining his PCG cult and going along with its teachings is strictly voluntary and that they never force anyone to join it or to obey it.
To the little PCG cult victims, That False Prophet Gerald R. Flurry will emphasize that joining his PCG cult and going along with all of its teachings is necessary to get into the kingdom of God and to avoid being cast into the lake of fire.
Trying desperately to get saved and not get kicked out of the PCG cult and burned up in the lake of fire, the little PCG cult victims will assure the government authorities that everything is fine and that they have come to identify with their captor That False Prophet Gerald R. Flurry and the satanic abusers that he set up over them.
Ultimately, people will have to obey God in order to get into the kingdom of God, but that is something far different than obeying That False Prophet Gerald R. Flurry that Satan sent against the little PCG cult victims.
Luke 5:31 "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance."
ReplyDeleteChrist could have condemned doctoring here, especially since it was primitive at this point, but He chose not to. He must have known the medicine would make great strides over time. Blood transfusions alone has saved tens of millions of lives. Modern medicine is a major reason why the average American lifespan has gone from about 50 at the beginning of the twentieth century, to about 83 years today.
Heh! A cynic might respond to your comment about the lifespan elongating with, "So that's what's killing the planet!" One species' blessing is others' curse.
DeleteYa but once you "voluntarily join" of your "own volition", then later if you prove all things & consider leaving them after discovering their elaborate PCG scams & discrepancies & false prophetting (ok false profiting too) & errors on King Of The South being "Iran", then PCG likely will gaslight the daylights out of you with threat that you're "losing your crown". Or threats of you "putting hand to plow" but "looking back". Thanks Mr. Flurry & co-hort mafia dons out in the red Edmond dust.
ReplyDeleteSomething tells me that the ministurds she received "counseling" from arent qualified to even cook hashbrowns at the Waffle House, much less dispense advice on "health issues".
ReplyDeleteThe underbelly of COG's is that evil is wished upon others rarther than blessings. Could be a lingering influence of the rivalry of Armstrongs toxic family relationships.
ReplyDeleteMembers are more likely to be compared to Satan than Jesus Christ. More likely to be condemned than praised. To succeed with a successful life within the COGs is to swim against the tide and be miraculous blessed by God himself against all odds. And of course no one should take medical advice off non medically trained individuals no matter what title they have in any church.
True, anon 11:11. The cogs accuse the brethren a lot. Expand it to all brethren that have proclaimed Christ as their Savior and you find much of their “gospel” is about accusing brethren.
ReplyDeleteRSK says, "the ministurds she received counseling from ARE NOT QUALIFIED to dispense advice on health issues".
ReplyDeleteAnon 11:11 says, "no one should take medical advice from non medically TRAINED individuals".
Without realizing it, both statements confirm the COG mindset and doctrinal view of the superiority of a paid "trained" ministry. Just substitute a few words and you have it.
This is how the "world" works! No matter the profession, whether doctor or minister, training and qualifications trump everything, and the rank and file are expected to fall in line. Jesus Christ ran into this with the religious leaders of his day. Who's in charge is superior to truth!
Conventional wisdom seems to support this idea on the surface, and most of you have no problem with it except within Armstrongism. The problem is, health and religion are broad subjects and no organized authority can possibly know it all or control it all, even though that's the intent.
The medical profession is no different from the field ministry of certain COG groups in that they are paid and controlled by a central authority who sets policy. The opiode crisis, the over use of antibiotics, and covid are powerful examples of this.
Whether health or religion, there are many things we should be able to do for ourselves without the need for so called outside expertise. The problem is we are often too lazy to do it.
Bullshit, BP8.
DeleteWould you go to a Waffle House and order Chinese fried rice?
Would you go to a florist to ask for advice on concrete pouring?
Would you ask a six-year-old from Harlan, Kentucky for serious information on the political situation in Laos?
Would you call an IT professional to deal with a building fire in progress?
Anon, Wednesday, April 17, 2024 at 3:17:00 AM PDT, said:
ReplyDelete"...True, anon 11:11. The cogs accuse the brethren a lot. Expand it to all brethren that have proclaimed Christ as their Savior and you find much of their “gospel” is about accusing brethren.
******
Anon, "Bingo!"
"For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or [if] ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with [him]." 2 Corinthians 11:4
"I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:" Galatians 1:6
Yes, isn't "Their 'gospel,'" like Doug Winnail's (and that of other hireling leaders who fled, "tail between their legs," from the former WCG and those alphabet xcog groups, Ass, Org., etc.) gospel? It is simply just that: "another gospel!"
Well, isn't it?
Time will tell...
John
RSK
ReplyDeleteYou are missing the point of my comment. I'm not advocating calling a plumber when you need an electrician. Those are exact sciences. I'm saying that the minister and the doctor fall into the same category in that both belong to organized establishments having their own self created orthodoxy based on their own authority.
Establishments are often more concerned with maintaining power than with doing good or advancing truth (sound familiar?). In some cases, they may actually suppress the truth in order to maintain their orthodoxies (the Pharisees and Jesus Christ).
Most will blindly give this status and authority to the doctor but would cringe when the Jim Jones and Dave Pack types demand it for themselves, even though the claim for recognition is based on the same principle.
This is how the "world" works!
BP8, you seem to be sanctioning the bum advice given by the church with your "This is how the "world" works!" What sort of reference point is this? The bible teaches to live by every word of God rather than by "this is the way the world works."
ReplyDeleteEven atheists know that justice trumps what what a majority might practice.
Another example of black and white thinkers using flawed logic and rhetoric to justify the behavior of religious tyrants. Need I say that cult members are always going to find reasons to justify their reasons for remaining in cults?
ReplyDelete"Doctors" and "ministers" are not monoliths. Even if they were, there is actually extreme regulation of the medical profession, beginning with the ethics established by the Hippocratic Oath, client confidentiality as regulated by the HIPAA Act, peer review of all the materials generated and published by the scientists who are involved in research, opinions generated by the court system including the abilities to seek redress through malpractice suits, and efforts of hospitals and doctors themselves to purge the system of the bad doctors who damage patients, drive up malpractice suits, and make the profession look bad.
There are no such protections against cults, ministers, or even bad acts and actors in long-term, well established denominations. In fact, these people are protected and given shield by the founding doctrines of our country, pretty much to do as they please. Their followers believe that they answer to a higher power, and do not generally hold them accountable unless the damage is uncontestable and extreme.
Worse yet, cultic ministers often forbid second opinions!
Any willfully ignorant fools care to argue this further???
3.59 BP8, yours is the "what-about-ism" pseudo-fallacy. Someone's greater sin/crime doesn't justify one's lesser sin/crime.
ReplyDelete535, I agree with you that the Bible does teach us to live by every word of God rather than following the "world's" ways.
ReplyDeleteWhat about Dave Pack and Mr. Flurry? Are they living by God's word or practicing the ways of this world system, where power, authority, and money reign supreme?
The best example of this worldly mindset is the religious establishment in Christ's time, who didn't care about Truth or the needs of the people, but only their own power base. It was that attitude that crucified the Son of God.
918
Forgive me, but I really don't know what you are talking about.
I personally do not wish to use doctors, etc., more than I need to. But sometimes they can be very helpful. I recently had surgery, otherwise my condition could have turned into something fatal. Of course I prayed to the Father, and God helped me make the right decisions.
ReplyDeleteAll Christians should realise that we should try to avoid being sick or having health problems, but when we do, we can use the medical profession, or natural healings, or a combination, according to what works best.
By following good health principles, we can avoid some of the worst health problems, but sometimes, especially due to the actions of others, we need medical help.
Free Your Mind, Friday, April 26, 2024 at 11:36:00 AM PDT, said:
ReplyDelete"...I personally do not wish to use doctors, etc., more than I need to. But sometimes they can be very helpful. I recently had surgery, otherwise my condition could have turned into something fatal. Of course I prayed to the Father, and God helped me make the right decisions.
All Christians should realise that we should try to avoid being sick or having health problems, but when we do, we can use the medical profession, or natural healings, or a combination, according to what works best.
By following good health principles, we can avoid some of the worst health problems, but sometimes, especially due to the actions of others, we need medical help.
******
That sounds like some sound advice...been there, done that also.
God can heal, if it's God's will, people in spite of doctors and medicines. Still, we all continue to learn to hate evil. This isn't God's world, and it isn't the time like in Jesus' time when He walked this earth and healed all of the sick people in some towns He visited.
God is not imposing His laws on this current evil world reigned over by Satan and his angels. Most of us are doing the best we can with what we have, and life goes on.
God's 7th annual Holyday, the Eighth Day, the Great Last Day foreshadows a great day yet ahead of us to benefit all humanity...finally, but...
Time will tell...
John