Remember this crap?
“The one and only place in the world where the government of God is being administered is in the Worldwide Church of God. I have said to you that the thing uppermost in God's mind is restoring the government of God by and through the Kingdom of God on this earth. God has placed that government in His Church. This is a government based on LOVE. Some don't believe in it and are fighting it. I need you to be 100 percent back of me in it.
Was there ever a more corrupt and spiritually damaging group than the WCG? Abuse of power and spiritual abuse was rampant in a church that claimed it was exclusively God's. Abusive ministers, sexual predators, stalkers, who were power hungry to lord it over members. The WCG was certainly NOT a foretaste of the Kingdom.
“Every day now we are one day closer to GLORY! Time is running out on us. There are WONDERFUL THINGS ahead for us, but we must sacrifice, be faithful, and ENDURE now!” I have shown you how this Church came to believe what it believes. And how those precious beliefs were put into this Worldwide Church of God, by Christ through me. I have shown you HOW IT WAS FOUNDED. God says His Church is founded on the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ being the chief cornerstone. Not only the original twelve apostles and Paul, but He used His one apostle for this twentieth century in founding this Philadelphia era of His Church.”(End Quote)
Are you ASHAMED of Jesus Christ? The current Philadelphia Era, is the Worldwide Church of God. It is THE ONE AND ONLY CHURCH OF GOD. To teach others to NOT refer to it as the Worldwide Church of God, is BETRAYAL. You are undermining what the apostle of Jesus Christ has faithfully said in the name of Jesus Christ.
Who can forget HWA talking about a "strong hand from someplace" instead of mentioning Jesus?
Jesus Christ does not need TRAITORS, and if any supposed minister is teaching people to only refer to the Church of God in this Philadelphia era, as “Church of God”, and does no longer wish to associate with “the Worldwide Church of God” he took the steps away into darkness and only serves his belly. He does not serve Jesus Christ, but is rather ASHAMED of Jesus Christ. Shame on him!The Church of God today, has been officially organized by Jesus Christ, through His chosen apostle Mr. Herbert W. Armstrong! Those of the Church, of the Body of Jesus Christ, all speak the same thing which comes through the apostle! ANY TINY STEP AWAY FROM THIS TRUTH IS REJECTED!Of all the things to have lock you out of the Kingdom of God! Jesus Christ will say I NEVER KNEW YOU.Rather men, repent, and obey God. DO NOT BE ASHAMED OF JESUS CHRIST! This isn't YOUR CHURCH! It is the Church of God! And God, through His Son Jesus Christ, raised up an apostle, and has ORGANIZED HIS CHURCH AS HE SEES FIT! He organized it into the Worldwide Church of God. This is the Philadelphia Era of the Church of God.Want to be something else? THEN GO, and BE ABORTED and go into the lake of fire! The life-span of being SEPARATED FROM THE BODY is but a puff of smoke.Jesus Christ is HEAD of the Worldwide Church of God. Don't like how it was organized into the Worldwide Church of God? Then you don't agree with Jesus Christ and God and are antichrist. THAT OUGHT TO SHAKE YOU AND MAKE YOU TREMBLE! THIS COULD BE YOUR LAST CHANCE! There won't be a second chance if we get this wrong! HWA quotes and Samuel Kitchen
Everyone was always doing something wrong. The church was unfit all of the time to be a beneficiary of the grace of Jesus. The focus is always on something other than grace or God forbid, Jesus.
The Armstrong "half a gospel" was always that Jesus Christ was going to return to establish Armstrongism as God's government on Earth, and that we in the advance group would have a special place, ruling our city or cities with a rod of iron, and schooling everyone else on how to live.. We'd also receive divine protection (if we were diligent and qualified) from the horrors of the tribulation.
ReplyDeleteThat was supposed to motivate everyone. I can see where it might have in the early stages of membership, the "honeymoon period" if you will. Unfortunately, as one became closer to the power structure and began experiencing things as they really were, those crowns which were supposedly awaiting us became tarnished. It's an all too human propensity to see things in an "as it is below, so it is above" light. Types and antetypes. Had the church lived up to expectations, the reward might also have. There was a plethora of instances in which the church and its leadership "grieved the Holy Spirit". It also became perfectly obvious over a period of decades that the church had zero understanding of prophecy. And, we must remember that HWA taught us that it was because we had and observed the restored truths from the first century, which had not been preached in 1900 years, that God blessed us as a group with the understanding of end times prophecy. Yet, that all failed, and HWA died, the prophecies unfulfilled and his empire divided and rudderless. Clearly, by his own words, that raises intense questions regarding the so-called restored truths. If you build it, He will come did not work.
HWA had the wrong set of plans.
BB
Hi BB.
DeleteYou're right. Except that your lengthy essay ONLY described the plan for 1000 years.
AFTER that the Entire Universe would be Elon Musked for All Eternity.....
Nck
BB, in the past, you posted about a “silver bullet” needed to bring down Armstrongism. Please see my post of June 27 at about 8:45am about the lack of succession proof for the Armstrong ministry.
DeleteComment was made stating: "...I have said to you that the thing uppermost in God's mind is restoring the government of God by and through the Kingdom of God on this earth. God has placed that government in His Church..."
ReplyDelete******
Where is the k/g on earth today? Writer stated the Govt of God by/through the k/g on this earth was uppermost in God's mind? I suggest uppermost in God's mind would be the feeding of His flock with proper spiritual food: strong meat, if you will. Wouldn't God run/control His own Government? This writer's god appears to be impotent.
What else did this writer say?
He/she said: "...Don't like how it was organized into the Worldwide Church of God? Then you don't agree with Jesus Christ and God and are antichrist. THAT OUGHT TO SHAKE YOU AND MAKE YOU TREMBLE!..."
Really! SHAKE AND TREMBLE! Is that the writer's view of their "Good News" message? What happened to Jesus' message to love one another? Trust no man, the Bible somewhere says!
It doesn't shake me at all, but I wonder about the writer's definition for antichrist, because it has nothing to do with this organization and/or how it is organized. This organization appears to be just another man-made, probably satanic-driven, organization that is driven by another spirit to preach another Jesus about another gospel.
After Pentecost, approximately 2,000 years ago, when the Ephesus era was established the Apostle John admitted there were many antichrists ("...even now are there many antichrists..." I John 2:18).
What does this organization believe about their Jesus when He walked this earth? Was He man and god? 50% man 50% god? 100%man 100% god?
If their Jesus was not 100% man, human, flesh and blood and bone like us, then one is preaching the spirit of antichrist:
1 John 4:3 "And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
2 John 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist."
That which is born of flesh is flesh: so said Jesus Himself to Nicodemus. Flesh and spirit don't mix. A cat and a dog don't mix. Neither does oil and vinegar.
Jesus Christ did come in the flesh, and do believe in anything other than that is to speak of the spirit of antichrist, and has nothing to do with believing some wcg organization is philadelphian or not. That's just garbage...or as the thread earlier cited: "crap!"
To say Jesus Christ was more than 100% human, flesh, like us is to deny Christ, and is preaching the spirit of antichrist, which would be the spirit of Satan, who hates both God the Father, that God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob, and His Son Jesus (Acts 3:13).
Is the writer of the spirit of antichrist, striving to LORD it over others, or not?
Time will tell...
John
Wait till Bob sees the post, ay caramba.
ReplyDeleteACOG ministers profess belief in the "government of God" until that government oppresses them and they leave their current government of God to become part of a different "government of God" they prefer.
ReplyDeleteDated source of "this crap" (no, not that source)?
ReplyDeleteWorshipping at the altar of this is how it's always been done.
ReplyDeleteThe is far more abuse and incredible bullying from a spirit of intense HATRED going on NOW from within the splinter groups than the ever was in WCG.
ReplyDeleteLet that sink in.
Don't write about that do you NO2HWA and cronies. I wonder why.
Well remember the pyramid it was mentioned so many times.
ReplyDeleteGod the Father then Jesus and the third level as the leader on earth was the self appointed, lying and most fake apostle Herbert Armstrong
Yes & if one were "obedient" to "hierarchy", (the top down pyramid example), one would readily accept Mr. Tkach Sr. being "placed" there too (from above) at least for awhile. It is why I personally did not splinter off to crusty, musty LCG back then (or ever).
DeleteAnd now? These ego puffed splinter administrators of today have re-hung the old hierarchy sword of Damocles dangling above once again, hounding you of losing your crown if you won't recongnize, adhere, & follow their "governance".
Wasn't Mr. Tkach Sr. at least temporarily a part of that same lineage of top-down hierarchy straight from heav'n above? Why was it so smug to dart off & follow RCM so early?
Can't we ask God if He was in charge of J. Tkach Sr. being placed in Pasadena in the 1st place?
“Can't we ask God if He was in charge of J. Tkach Sr. being placed in Pasadena in the 1st place?”
DeleteNot sure as I bailed out long before the apostle died having decided the whole system was a complete con. Apologies Dad & Mom for my stupidity.
Growing up Dutch Reformed and Orthodox Presbyterian, I never heard the words "God's government". They had a tendency to hang out in the New Testament.
ReplyDeleteOnce "God's government" gets mentioned you can pretty much rest assured it is being promoted by some guy who imagines himself at the pinnacle of it here on Earth, for your good of course.
I still have a tendency to wake up at 3am with "how could I have been so stupid" thought. But that's why governments demand that the 18- to 22-year-olds fight its battles and they tend towards "hoorah!"
I still have a tendency to wake up at 3am with "how could I have been so stupid" thought.
DeleteWe all have such thought I think. Next time you have such thought be kind and forgiving to yourself, asking in a quiet prayer for guidance of the Holy Spirit.
Byker Bob' (wow )... What a great comment, you are so right .
ReplyDelete5:04
ReplyDeleteYes Dennis.
The last week I have been explaining HWA's thought development...having been an impressionable young man under the Wilson Presidency.
I have been focussing on Wilsonian Internationalism as opposed to long term 19th century constitutional Isolationism.
The so called "Gods Government" principle can in my opinion also be reduced to Wilsonian Centralizing of Governement especially the Federal Reserve System that came into being in 1913 when HWA was 21 years old.........I would ask anyone why Jekyll Island was such an important place in the early years of the Radio Church of God.......
First study "Gods Goverment, then Federal Reserve Act, Then Jekyll Island in this order" and impose ambitious HWA being 21 years old.....reading newspapers trying to make something.....
Of Course Dutch Reformed was born out of "local government principle" the only mergers and economies they have are forced by declining membership..
nck
Oh if life was that simple 'nck'. Are people robots, subjected to the winds of whatever culture they've been born into? I beg to differ.
DeleteAh well,
ReplyDeletebefore everyone starts cursing....I might aswell source for a bit.......
Hey funny lot.....another familiar name pops up too......Kuhn.... ;-);-) ;-) harharhar
Gods Government for effective governing......
https://www.federalreservehistory.org/essays/jekyll-island-conference
nck
The test of time has shown the following statement to be VERY WANTING...
ReplyDelete"God, through His Son Jesus Christ, raised up an apostle, and has ORGANIZED HIS CHURCH AS HE SEES FIT! He organized it into the Worldwide Church of God. This is the Philadelphia Era of the Church of God. "
"This is a government based on LOVE."
ReplyDeleteThings done "on/in love" is a ploy used by many Christian groups. It's an attempt to sugar coat some doctrine or behavior by its ministers that's oppressive.
Herbs "loving government" has left thousands of its members scarred for life by their verbally brutal Gestapo ministers.
What doesn't make sense is that the HWA's Philadelphia era church was to be followed by the present Laodicean era. The problem is that most of today's church members belonged to both groups. People's character is consistent over a lifetime, so there can't be the major changes required in the two eras.
ReplyDelete"Don't like how it was organized into the Worldwide Church of God? Then you don't agree with Jesus Christ and God and are antichrist."
ReplyDeleteThe church was organized like the typical cult family. Members were infantilized (the prolonged treatment of one who is not a child, as though they are a child) and expected to conform to the dysfunctional narcissistic paradigm. Equating this with Jesus Christ and God is blasphemy.
The ACOG splinters keep shrinking for a reason.
If you don't believe in the extrabiblical theory of church eras, but take the messages as a wise counsel or warning on what attitudes a Christian can fall into, you know that all can exist at the same time. It's a message for each individual to strive for the Philadelphian attitude, because that's the one that's best.
ReplyDeleteWilliam Miller actually taught back in the 1840s that the church was now in the Laodicean era. So, the era theory actually existed back then! The splinters do with the eras what their leaders do with the titles. They take the best name for themselves, without actually having the fruits. So, it's meaningless. Their Prophets are failures. Apostles are not doing the jobs of the original Apostles, and Philadelphians are not exceptional due to their overwhelming brotherly love.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThe allure of "new and improved" has always amused me because I find that if you actually go for the slightly older model that didnt debut a new feature, you tend to get a better product. At least that seems to be the case with video gear.
DeleteI will take it. FULL PRICE!
ReplyDelete$1 a month for 45 Million Months, however I will spilt profits 50/50
I plan on converting it into a CASINO!
Thats nonsense. Denying Christ is keeping the law of Moses, the handwiting of ordinances that was nailed to the cross (Col 2:14). The ordinances written by Moses (2 Chronicles 33:8), which consisted of offerings on sabbaths, new moons, solemn feasts, three times in the year (2 Chronicles 8:13). The purpose of the Feasts was to bring sacrifices (Lev. 23:37) that pointed to the sacrifice of Christ and it was HWA who introduced the damnable heresy of keeping the Feasts, effectively fulfilling Peter's warning in 2 Peter 2:1 of "denying the Lord that bought them". Keeping the Feasts is denying the sacrifice of Christ to return to the beggarly elements (Gal 4:9) and the warning of denying Christ is associated with two church eras, Smyrna and Philadelphia (HWA)....in which the synagogue of satan captured the church from the top with leaders who claimed to be Jews but lied (Rev 3:9). HWA claimed to descend from David, same as David Pack, fulfilling prophecy on the wrong side.
ReplyDeleteHWA introduced offerings for Feast days in the form of money which is never taught anywhere in the Bible except in the form of a warning in 2 Peter 2:3, "...and through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you.."
My LCG brothers and sisters, and others. Fear neither man nor prince. Were we called to unconditionally submit to men in a pyramid structure who portray themselves as proxies of God, like a Catholic form of COG vickers, or are we called to submit unconditionally to God? Is the ministry the goverment of God? At least take a look at what CBCG's article says about the matter, and please do not be afraid to think it through biblically. The website for this is:
ReplyDeletehttps://www.cbcg.org/mingodsgov.html
Actually rod Meredith wrote a booklet on a more collegial form of church government, bbut it was abruptly yanked from the shelf immediately following the trouble in the Global Church Of God and the formation of LCG. I cannot find that pdf booklet now about collegial church governance but perhaps someone can find it and post a link.
Even Mr. Armstrong in his earlierdays wrote a booklet on a collegial church governance approach. When I challenged a fellow LCG'er about it and was the member cherry picking what he believed and did not belive, well he just dismissed the earlier article and my wanting him to think critically. Like a frightened and cowed automaton. At least look honestly at the issue. Please?
RSK.... S
ReplyDeleteYou are that one guy jumping in the water to rescue a driver while a 1000 people look on..... :-)
9:04 is right.
Until about 1942 HWA preached somewhat of a collegiate governance system.
Of course the Radio Church of God hardly had any local church areas..
.... until changing (Texan) Tax laws in the 1950's stipulated that Radio Church Of God did not meet the criteria of a church allowed to collect money from its listeners tax free... UNLESS the criterium for local congregations was met....
This led to the ", travelling" AC graduates touring the USA and raise local churches.
Nck
"Unconditionally submit to men...or unconditionally submit to God."
ReplyDelete9.04 am, The answer is neither. The word "submit" is a loaded language word which is a combination of truth and error. "Submit" should never mean switching off one's mind.
The message from 1:10 pm shows he is inattentive. 9:04's comment is for the LCG brethren to Engage their minds. Not to shut them off. so then, let us change the word from submit to surrender. We are called to surrender unconditionally to God, and not to capitulate unconditionally to some man or hierarchy that purports to represent and speak for God as God's proxy.
ReplyDeleteThe bible instructs to not add or subtract from God's word. Cults get around this by redefining words. This is called loading the language. Both your words "surrender" and "submit" are examples of this because they imply ditching your mind. The Milgram experiment which has been duplicated in many other countries, proves the existence of your type of submission.
ReplyDeleteIt was VERY upsetting to see both Mr. Nelte & then Mr. Close's word for word copy of Nelte (under the guise of, "new truths") into adding/subtracting Jesus' own words in Matt. 11:30.
DeleteThis collegial thing. Of course the contemporary ACOGs are going to reject it. The vast majority of Armstrongites believe in the progressive degeneracy of "the world", but, up to a certain point, the progressive revealing of new or more perfect truths to HWA, or any of various "new" apostles, provided that they are only making minor tuneups to the doctrines. So, "Collegial" was an earlier form used by Mr. Armstrong prior to God revealing additional truth, namely government from the top-down. (as the Armstrongish mind sees it). The older folks are simply going to tell you that they've already got the "collegial" T-shirt in the rag bag. The Apostle had already been there and done that, and that's good enough for them.
ReplyDeleteDavid Hulme basically lost his gig when he tried to come clean about British Israelism. The ACOGs as a collective have not followed David Pack into "common", despite their need for additional funds. They have not followed Gerald Flurry down any of his surreal rabbit holes.
What I find to be perplexing is that for all of the talk about God inspiring and working through HWA, so many members did not trust that inspiration when it came to HWA choosing Joseph Tkach Sr. as his successor. People who walked away and refused to go along claim that the Tkaches "stole" all of the assets. When you walk away from something, and when you notify members to send their tithes to your new group instead, who is doing the actual stealing?
There is no logic to anything that has happened in COGdom. Only the very visible and risible results. "Leaders" splintered again and again until nobody had any power to fulfill the commission at the core of HWA's mission statement. I've said this many times, but will say it again. The only thing which maintained unity in the old WCG was HWA's explosive temper. It's a terrible thing to say, I know. Once that was gone,
all of his hand-picked, hand-trained guys went out of control. They say the Tkaches destroyed the church, but it requires a combination of events to sink a large vessel. Regardless of their motives, those who took power and set up their own little empires played just as big a part in the destruction.
The ultimate bullet to Armstrongism and its ministerial government is a simple historical factor: It cannot trace its “unbroken succession” of sabbatarian ministerial ordinations back to the original apostles. That concept is the core aspect of the entire “True Church” (TC) claim, and it has been at least since Dugger and Dodd codified it in their book. Armstrong ministers can’t even confirm, if any, what CG7 ministers may have been at Armstrong’s own ordination.
ReplyDeleteThe significance of this shown by the precedent in Ezra 2/Nehemiah 7, wearing number of families claimed, priestly dissent, but could not produce the documentation. They were declared “unclean” and set aside. Likewise, Armstrong ministers would be set aside due to their lack of documentation.
It essentially nullifies the entire TC doctrine. Its ministers, including Armstrong himself, hold no authority over members, and the whole claim becomes meaningless. No “COG” doctrine has TC ministerial authority. No Armstrong minister has personal authority over members. None of it matters.
There is no proof required for this. Indeed, it is the Armstrong ministry’s lack of information on this that mandates the application of the Ezra/Nehemiah precedent.
Pass this to Armstrongists in a polite and objective manner. It doesn’t invalidate or destroy most of their doctrinal beliefs. It simply shows them that their church tradition held them with a fraud. It sets them free to live their faith.
"Actually Rod Meredith wrote a booklet on a more collegial form of church government, but it was abruptly yanked from the shelf immediately following the trouble in the Global Church Of God and the formation of LCG"
ReplyDeleteNO it wasn't "yanked"
One of Rod's little Robots, Charles Bryce in Atlanta, later on admitted the booklet was only written to get people to leave Worldwide. The Booklet was as much as sham as Rod and Charles were "ministers"
The problem, Lee, is that in order to be effective, the proverbial silver bullet would need to be devastating to the Armstrongites' beliefs themselves. We all think that we have silver bullets because they are things which we personally have found to be very convincing, and effective in killing off or negating Armstrongism. Whether it is dna evidence which resulted from the mapping of the human genome, the bogusness of British Israelism, the New Covenant, perennially failing (false) prophecy, an assortment of debunkings, obviously bad fruit, the corruptness of the founders, or any number of other factors presented here on a regular basis, these totally logical takedowns miss the mark in obliterating the cultic mindset.
ReplyDeleteI agree that what you cited, lack of succession proof, should be a silver bullet. However, I believe that if Jesus himself were to suddenly return and begin to attempt to straighten things out, many of the ACOG members would not accept the truth even from Jesus. They'd accuse Him of preaching another gospel, and counter it with "but, Mr. Armstrong says." They'd reject Him just as the Jews did, because He would not be what they expected. That, my friend, pretty much defines the cultic mindset. Something will need to happen to break that barrier down and make them receptive. Until then, even if our silver bullets are teflon-tipped, or hollow points, they just won't penetrate. It's so sad to watch, especially if it involves friends or loved ones.
BB
This is where so many who attack Armstrongism make their mistake. They target Armstrongist doctrine specifically, rather than the authority basis behind it.
ReplyDeleteThere of course is no silver bullet against Armstrongist mistakes, because there is no single disproof of all the errors. They are different topics. Likewise, there is no silver bullet against errors in Methodist beliefs, Baptist beliefs, etc.
The target should be a cult itself. Free people up to pursue their own study on any given issue, so that they might correct error. And if they end up holding to some less mainstream belief on some topic with which you disagree, so be it. People have different views on doctrine and practice.
Doctoral arguments rarely work against Armstrongists for two reasons. First is their view of John 6:44 and the idea of having their “mind opened.” They believe that they have been given a greater vision than most people. Second is because of their belief in church authority. Tkach succeeded as he did because he was in a position of (perceived) authority. An outsider saying the same things would’ve had no effect.
My approach addresses the second one. It focuses on the objective and literal/temporal element of their TC view – the literal succession. It brings to undeniable light that their church ministry simply does not have that information. It only uses scripture as simply an historical account setting a precedent requiring a specific action, not something requiring doctrinal discernment.
In this way, it actually bypasses their John 6:44 defense. That view was generally held to involve doctoral, understandings “hidden” spiritually from people. It wasn’t usually applied to objective facts of history. Even though Armstrongists are taught that regular history doesn’t record all of the “real” history, temporal factual matters are generally held to require substantiation.
And it uses the LACK of information to compel the action. They can’t claim you are wrong in some factual assertion. You’re making no factual assertions! They can’t be seeing things better than you do, because there is literally nothing to see.
Sure, they can resort to claims of special knowledge given to Hoeh or Waterhouse, or whoever. But you can point out the circular logic there – that they are presuming the TC status they are attempting to defend. And if that doesn’t work, it drives the individual making the argument to a complete reliance on their faith in Armstrong, etc., personally. This is something which can be documented for outsiders who might otherwise be drawn into the cult not knowing what it was.
And as for those in Armstrongism who go that far, just shake their hands as people who are finally openly expressing their faith in men. Simply insist that they preach openly that Armstrong, et
al, is the source of their faith, and not hide it in a bait-and-switch evangelism.
Tell them to embrace the “Armstrongism” label. The LDS church accepted the “Mormon” label. Believers that Jesus is the messiah accepted the “Christian” label. Tell them to do the same.
I get that there are doctrines in Armstrongism that you strongly dislike. Get over it. There will be people who disagree with you. Focus on opening Armstrongists up to objective examination of matters. THEN address those issues specifically if you want.
Clarification for the record: My approach suggested is intended within the context of Christian faith and belief. Thank you.
ReplyDeleteOne more clarification: Autocorrect sometimes swamped in “doctoral” for “DOCTRINAL.” Please adjust your reading accordingly. Thank you.
ReplyDeleteWe've been doing this for years, Lee. Professed ACOG members generally go silent, and then repeat their fable of the chain of laying on of hands weeks or months later. We've even brought up the matter of HWA having been baptized by a Baptist minister in Oregon.
ReplyDeleteYou are thinking and postulating as a logical human being, attempting to use cold hard facts. These people have had their minds tampered with. We are not your enemies. I wish your method actually did work on ACOG members. I've seen it attempted on Bob Thiel, and undeterred, he still repeats the official mantra.
It worked with me over 20 years ago. But yes, I get it. Most people aren’t like me.
DeleteDedicated Armstrongists are going to believe there is a succession, even without the specific information. “Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.” But that’s where Ezra/Nehemiah come into it. It gives somebody who sincerely didn’t know that information was lacking, and especially those who were questioning the faith tradition for other reasons (as I had been), cover to reconsider their association. “It may indeed be that the succession exists. However, since we don’t have the actual information/verification, I have to follow that biblical precedent.”
Mass effect would require mass exposure. When I first left, I had a website set up with the info. But I was focused on other projects, and didn’t exploit it. The site is gone now. Maybe billboards at a feast of Tabernacles site? Something to force a discussion.
I regret not doing more to disseminate this back in the aftermath of 1995, when the fall of WCG left so many confused. Too many of the older members have resolidified in their traditional thinking.
Young people coming up in the Armstrong tradition, however, can still be reached with it. It can give them cover with their families. And it can be used against “prospective members,” as we used to call them, as well as people are varying degrees or infatuation. It would warn them off the cult before they got sucked in. (Of course, they draw hardly any people now anyway, because of all the information that is out there.)
While I understand your point, I remain convinced it is the only possible angle short of a rumored video of Herbert Armstrong emerging where he confesses to everything. Every other attack can be explained away. Indeed, street doctrinal attacks probably strengthen them. The succession issue, on the other hand, goes to the basis for explaining things away.
As for Armstrong’s baptism, everybody knows that about his 1927 baptism by a Baptist. That’s not a problem with them. What they don’t know about is the (likely) 1930 baptism in CG7. That is what might cause a scandal. Armstrong used his 1927 baptism to say he was never a CG7 member. Thus, he could teach that once somebody became a member they could not leave a church, despite him doing that. If it became known that he was indeed a full-blown CG7 member, it could be used to show a fraud.
Thank you all for your time. I know. All the best.
HWA published in Mass Circulation sent out to millions of people that he was baptized by the baptized preacher.In the 1930's in the 1950's in the 1980's.
ReplyDeleteOne needs to know something about religion, spirituality and organizational principles to understand who is a "member" of a "family (women under Roman law, half brothers, mozes???, jesus' siblings,. Jews with only a Jewish father," adoption as specified by Jesus under Roman Law.. etc to come to a basic understanding of this topic.
Of course I went to doctors like anyone in my congregation... of course fully believing and knowing that ONLY God heals (ultimately) ..... or not...
Also, divorcing is impossible and illegal ALWAYS (as the RC Church also teaches)
Yet even the Bible already reckognizes that at times it should be allowed because of the "hardness of man's - both man and females - hearts.
Even in WCG's Manecheist worldview black and white good VS evil there was space for the human side for which omnipotent God had sent his son to learn more about the realities of material life instead of his old testament if convictions that man was already close to god.... as thousands of years had proven the creator wrong. What purpose was there for Jesus anyway if the old testamentic bronze age people were the pinnacle of human accomplishment and gods creation.
Therefore the Pasadena campus investment to reflect the stellar character of the next phase in human development, potential, quest... (egret sculpture representing aspiration)
And the Texas campus reflecting human toil (swan sculpture)
Nck