New Interview: Jim Valekis: From Worldwide Church of God to Preaching the True Christ

There is no need for apostles anymore in the church because we still have Herbert Armstrong

 

Bob Thiel, Dave Pack, and Gerald Flurry will not like what Tim Kitchen has to say below. These three fools think God is speaking directly to them.

Christ called his team under Him. The Apostles, with Peter being leader. That again can be proven with so many scriptures. And through the Apostles, God called the Church, a team backing the Apostles, all speaking what the Apostles taught them, speaking the same thing. Which is what Christ taught the Apostles. Today, we have an apostle, Mr. Herbert W Armstrong exemplifying God's Way of Life, teaching us that way, preparing that way. He like Elijah and Zerubabbel has a team, just like the original apostles in the First Century. And we are qualifying to be on that team in the Kingdom now!

And he like Moses and Joshua, died. For he was human.(But will lead that Team under Christ in the Kingdom of God) God commands that team, that Era to HOLD FAST to what you were taught via the Apostle, the same message he gave Ephesus. Why, because an apostle was on the scene, and God gave the Church its doctrines through apostles. There is no need for another apostle, when we still have Mr. Armstrong. Why would God restore all things, and then go around and restore them again, as if the first installment was lost and couldn't be found. No. The Witness through Mr. Armstrong is still here. Those teachings are still here. And they still witness through those holding fast and staying true to those truths in the church.

HWA has become all-powerful and set the measuring line. Gerald Waterhouse did not depart from the trunk of the tree...yeah, right. Never fear, though; Waterhouse was a human and made dumb speculations, and NO ONE had the right to correct him. Only he could correct himself. That's one of the biggest loads of crap I have heard about Waterhouse in ages. Waterhouse was a liar and a fraud.

Like Mr. Armstrong explained, he taught the Trunk of the Tree and the main branches, the outline, the skeleton, the measuring line of which we must build and grow on. The Ministers were to expound, build up, focus on the smaller limbs, the twigs and expand from there, not departing from the Trunk of the Tree. That is what Mr. Gerald Waterhouse did. He showed us the program Christ started through Mr. Armstrong. He took all of what he was taught, the Plan of God, and expounded it into an AMAZING sermon going through almost every single point we needed! But he was human and speculated on some things. But he had the authority to correct it, not anyone else. And he did. Too many thought they can take that authority given to someone and do it better themselves, and some took themselves out of the church when they did that. Others when shown their error, repented.

Did you know the open door to understanding only came thorugh Herbert?

Today, with many of the sermons and message I've heard from many ministers, they do not have that structure, that skeleton, that measuring line, making clear to everyone whom God was using, what everyone's job is, and how we fit into the plan of God. Many take the job of an apostle and Mr. Armstrong and apply it to themselves or their group. And I'm not just talking about those groups who openly say they are an "apostle". I'm also including those who take the scriptures that apply to an apostle, that did apply to Mr. Armstrong and apply it to themselves and to the group they are fellow-shipping with and leading. Many say the Matt 24:14 is a commission and it is the Church's commission. Mr. Armstrong explained it as a PROPHECY of an Apostle coming on the scene fulfilling the Great Commission, which of course was given to the Apostles with the Church backing them. If the Church is not backing them, showing their loyalty, sticking with it, making a stand with the Apostle, not denying Christ through the Apostle, how can they truly be doing their part? And how can they grow in the grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ, if they are not doing what Christ commanded us? Only those who were doing what Christ commanded, are given a good understanding. That means the open door to Understand, which the Philadelphia Era is given!

Tim Kitchen, Facebook

Dave Pack: Selling All Is Serious

 

The Sunk Cost Fallacy and the Church of God

 

Too Much Invested in This

Over the 38 years plus since Herbert Armstrong’s death, many of us have written a number of posts analyzing why folks continue to associate themselves with one of the successors of the now defunct Worldwide Church of God. Why? Because of all of the numerous books, articles, and now podcasts that have been written/produced which have definitively refuted so much of Armstrong’s theology, many of us continue to wonder how anyone could still be supportive of it! Our bewilderment is also augmented by the fact that the history of the movement since Herbert’s death has forced almost universal recognition of the fact that horrendous mistakes were made in the administration of the “church” (even among the membership of ALL of the splinters). Hence, it is reasonable for us to wonder: “What could possibly motivate a person to ignore so much evidence of failure and continue in it?”

I have a friend who joined the Worldwide Church of God as a young man and remained a part of it until the Tkach regime started making their changes. Then he joined one of the splinters and has been faithful to it ever since. Throughout those years, this person had a good job and tithed on his gross income. He faithfully attended weekly Sabbath services, the festivals, and many of the other gatherings and activities organized by the church.

Now, my friend is very intelligent, and he readily acknowledges many of the abuses that existed in the parent organization. He knows that people were hurt and bullied. He acknowledges that the Worldwide Church was poorly governed, and that the organization’s resources were often squandered and used to benefit and enrich folks who did not contribute very much to the church’s teachings or mission. Even so, this intelligent, kind, and sincere individual continues to attend with the splinter he joined and still contributes a significant portion of his income to their “work.”

Yet, when I ask him about his continuing loyalty in the face of what he has witnessed and experienced, he answers that he “still believes in the core teachings” of the church. Now, I know that many of the folks who will read this post have heard that same phrase from their friends and family who remain within the ranks of one of the many splinters who claim to have inherited Armstrong’s mantle. Nevertheless, if we actually got into the weeds of those teachings, I’m sure that just about all of these folks would have a different answer about what constitutes those “core doctrines.” At any rate, however they choose to define the “core doctrines” of Armstrongism, this appears to be one of the most common justifications given for a person’s continued association with one of the Armstrong Churches of God.

Now, I know that what I’m about to say will provoke denials from many quarters, but I really believe that what is really motivating these folks has more to do with protecting their own investment in a choice that most of them made many years ago! In other words, they simply have too much time, energy, resources, self-denial, and familiarity invested in Armstrongism to turn their backs on it now! Think about it. After spending 30, 40, 50, 60, or even 70 years, sacrificing jobs, relationships, various opportunities, and thousands upon thousands of dollars to maintain their association with like-minded folks, to admit failure now would mean acknowledging that they have wasted a good part of their lives. More importantly, it would mean admitting that their original decision to embrace Herbert Armstrong’s teachings and church had been wrong! In short, for many of these folks, acknowledging the failure of Armstrongism would be tantamount to acknowledging their own failure! It is such a part of their story and identity now, that the thought of chucking it poses an existential threat to them. Who would they be without this?

Of course, for many of us who have left Armstrongism behind, we rejoice in whatever time, resources and effort have been saved. For many of us, we feel like we have escaped a sinking ship and have saved ourselves from drowning and certain death. For many of us, we have removed the knife and staunched the bleeding. We have started thinking for ourselves again and employing our time and resources in more promising ventures. Yes, we have had to admit that we were wrong – that we made mistakes – that we made a big error in judgment and have paid a huge price for it. Even so, some of us have also experienced the joy of rediscovering Jesus and having our own personal relationship with the Divine. Moreover, a few of us have even discovered that we wouldn’t be in the good place that we are now without having experienced the delusions, disappointments, and hardships of Armstrongism! So, I would remind those of you who are still a part of that system of the old axiom that it is never too late, and that letting go of your ego and admitting failure doesn’t have to be a dead end!

Lonnie Hendrix/Miller Jones

Respect My Position! I Am Elijah! I Am The Apostle!

 

Armstrongism, Eisegesis, and Fake Prophecy

Herbert W Armstrong preached false doctrines about the end times and British Israelis that he derived from prior, flawed sources. Despite the appearance of scholarship in his approach, he essentially put himself above the Bible as the source of truth for Christians. He avoided sound exegesis all his life.

LCG: Have you hardened your heart? Are you still teachable?

Now, Boys and Girls, it is important to remain teachable so you too can avoid problems and gain your reward in the kingdom. 

Why has it been that the leadership in LCG and most COG's have been some of the most unteachable men in our history?

Are You Teachable? The Bible reveals that God is looking for an important quality in Christians and future leaders in His Kingdom—teachability. Abraham listened to God’s instructions (Genesis 18:19). Moses was an extremely capable leader, but he was also humble and teachable (Numbers 12:3). David exhibited this same attitude when he wrote “Teach me, O Lord, the way of Your statutes” (Psalm 119:33). Solomon asked God for wisdom and an “understanding heart” so he could learn to rule wisely (1 Kings 3:9). When Jesus said the “meek” and “poor in spirit” will be blessed, He emphasized the need to be teachable and willing to learn (Matthew 5:3–5). However, the Scriptures also reveal that when we harden our hearts to God’s instructions, we will reap serious consequences (Proverbs 28:14). Let’s strive to be teachable so we can avoid problems and gain an everlasting reward in the coming Kingdom of God.

Have a profitable Sabbath,

Douglas S. Winnail

Uppity Ambassador College Men Who Were Learning Greek And Hebrew and Raymond McNair Questioning Validity of Dr Stavrinides Baptism

Charles Hunting

A reader here sent me this appalling letter from Dr. Stavrinides to Herbert Armstrong detailing the long-held belief among church leadership that well-educated ministers and members were a threat to the organization. 

When Charles Hunting presided over the Bricket Wood campus he did not take too kindly to Ambassador College men/ministers who were learning Hebrew and Greek and who looked up certain words and phrases HWA had "translated" and found that the words/phrases did not mean any such thing. Hunting had a two-fold disgust, one for men who decided to educate themselves in Hebrew and Greek and for them to turn around and call the church out for improper translations. Apparently, in Hunting's sight, all information that flowered from HWA'smouth and fingertips was God sent. We now know what a joke this idea was.

Then, to add more fuel to the fire, Stavrinides discusses how Raymond McNair was taking his baptism into question. McNair was always known to be an uppity jerk who took things to the extreme. Ratting out people to HWA was one of his favorite activities. Plus, the very idea that he took upon himself to stick his snotty nose into the baptismal status of Stavrinides is disgusting.

Double-click to enlarge 

Armstrongism in Contention with Christianity: Concerning Salvation by Faith

 

Jesus

A Credible Image from the Fayum Mummy Portraits. See Note below. (Fair Use)

 

Armstrongism in Contention with Christianity:

Concerning Salvation by Faith

 

The Armstrongist model for salvation departs from Christianity.  Anyone who looks forward to a life in Paradise should consider this issue carefully.  

The Armstrongism Says About Salvation

The following two published statements expose the essential model for Armstrongist soteriology.  After you sift through the many sound bites in archival material, you find these principles at the center of Armstrongism.

Jesus tells us that our OBEDIENCE to the Ten Commandments is an absolute PREREQUISITE to receiving God's gift of eternal life (Mat. 19:16-17). (Ambassador College Bible Correspondence Course, Lesson 17, 1966.)

Rod Meredith writing of the “Civil Law” in the Law of Moses:

These statutes and judgments, based on the ten commandments, are “righteous” (Palm 119:7, 8).  It is SIN to break them!  (Roderick C. Meredith, “Is OBEDIENCE to god Required for Salvation?”, Ambassador College, 1956.)

In summary, one must have a record of effective law-keeping in order to one day receive salvation.  This means that Armstrongists do not have salvation now.  Their salvation is in suspense as they await judgment in their personal Eschaton.  For them, the keeping of the Decalogue, the statutes and judgments are a pre-condition to salvation – an input into the salvific process.  While this is “salvation by works”, even though Armstrongism denies that salvation by works is a part of its soteriology, Armstrongists do not neglect faith in Christ.  So, they have a hybrid model that includes both law-keeping (the Law of Moses) and faith both as sources of salvation.

What Jesus Said about Salvation

Jesus made the following clear statement about salvation:

Very truly, I tell you, anyone who hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and does not come under judgment but has passed from death to life.” (NRSV, John 5:24)

Here Jesus makes faith or belief the source of salvation.  And the result is that the person who believes has (notice past tense) eternal life and has passed (note past perfect tense) from death to life.  Salvation has already happened for those who have received the gift of faith.  The earlier statement that I quoted from the Ambassador College Correspondence Course begins with the phrase “Jesus tells us…”  This contradicts what Jesus really tells us in John 5:24. 

Jesus echoes this in his response to the wealthy young man in Matthew 19:16-26.  The young man comes to him and says, “Teacher, what good deed must I do to have eternal life.”  The answer, of course, there is nothing you can do to earn eternal life.  Jesus takes him down a logical path where he quickly finds the level of “doing” that will cause the young man to reject salvation.  Perfection and the resultant salvation are unattainable by doing.  But with God all things are possible and he provides the imputed righteousness of Christ for the perfection of the Believer. 

Summary Argument

Paul says we are saved by grace through faith and not of works.  Armstrongism asserts that we are saved by grace through faith plus works.  HWA maintains that only those who are keeping the commandments are recipients of grace, making grace contingent on law-keeping:

And those who, through repentance, obedience and FAITH have turned from disobedience and are, through faith, KEEPING the Law, are the only ones who are UNDER GRACE! (HWA, “What is Faith”, WCG, 1979)

In this odd, non-Biblical interpretation, grace comes after law-keeping in contravention to Paul (Ephesians 2:8-9) who states that salvation is not of works at all.  It is worthwhile to educate yourself about the model of salvation in Armstrongism and how it compares to Christianity, if you seek salvation.

 

Note:  An image of Jesus in the Catacombs of Priscilla shows him with short hair and clean shaven.  I have used this very early image as a guide in choosing a likely portrait.  The date for the Catacombs image is circa 225 CE.

by Scout