This podcast episode examines the troubling racial teachings of Herbert W. Armstrong, founder of Armstrongism, using a 1963 Plain Truth magazine article as its primary source. Armstrong's writings, while acknowledging racial discrimination, present God as the alleged author of racial segregation, justifying it through distorted interpretations of biblical passages like Genesis 6 and Acts 17:26. He enforced segregation within his own church, discouraging interracial dating and marriage. The episode critiques Armstrong's use of fear-mongering and confirmation bias to support his prejudiced views and discusses the lasting impact of his teachings. The hosts emphasize critical thinking when evaluating religious teachings and the importance of aligning faith with justice and compassion.
Taking it all in context, the USA at the time of the 50s+60s was divided by race, especially the south. That was the foundation the society in which wwcog operated in. They gave credence to these policies via their ‘gospel’. Society still suffers from that period of time to this day. There’s no doubt that racist sediment and segregation mind sets are still alive within the remaining holdouts of the dying Armstrong movement. I also believe that a quiet anti semitism is also hiding under the veneer of BI/Armstrongism. The Jews are problematic for them, at least the ones in the western world are white, so they were tolerated, if from a distance. Apart from a few individuals I found in my own experience, as one of the ‘tribe’, that Jewish folk were well tolerated and welcomed as fellow believers in Christ, as they should be. As people of all colour and ethnic backgrounds should be. Racism has no place within the body of Jesus Christ.
ReplyDeleteMost of the COGs still practice organizational racism via British Israelism. None of the bigger groups (UCG, LCG, COGWA) have disowned it. Each of those 3 groups has to varying degrees buried BI but they all still quietly teach it as an important doctrine. BI is not described anywhere prominently on their websites, but tell a member in UCG, LCG, or COGWA that British Israelism is nonsense and you will be cast out. BI as HWA taught it is still very much believed by anyone who was part of the COG before the mid-1990's.
ReplyDeleteUCG at least acknowledges that "some proponents incorporated racism into their beliefs. Prejudicial racist views have tarnished their reasoning, thus discrediting the historical aspects of their teachings. This is both regrettable and biblically unacceptable. Racial bigotry is most definitely not what the Bible teaches. God is not the author of such a point of view." The source for this is https://www.ucg.org/learn/bible-study-aids/united-states-and-britain-bible-prophecy/united-states-and-britain-bible-14
I would argue however that racial bigotry IS most definitely what the Bible teaches. The Old Testament -- which purports to speak for the same God as the New Testament -- very clearly espouses racist sentiments. It's not like God suddenly had a change of heart between the end of the OT and the beginning of the NT.
I disagree 8:04, as God allowed a stranger to align themselves with the congregation of Israel as they were coming out of Egypt. And there was one law for both the Israelite and the stranger (gentile). Exodus 12:37-38 Then the children of Israel journeyed from Rameses to Succoth, about six hundred thousand men on foot, besides children. 38 A mixed multitude went up with them also
Delete49 One law shall be for the native-born and for the stranger who dwells among you.”
God also caused destruction and captivity on Israel several times, just as any other nation who dealt with them . (Genesis 15:14). So I look at other countries going through captivity down through time just like Israel.
I’m always reminded of the Amplified version of Malachi
Malachi 3:6 “For I am the Lord, I do not change [but remain faithful to My covenant with you]; that is why you, O sons of Jacob, have not come to an end.
So when one gets to the New Testament, here’s Christ talking about these gentile cities that would have repented a long time ago had they had the works of God within them. Matthew 11:22-24. So in the final analysis, I think God is fair in judgement and salvation especially when considering every tongue, tribe and nation...Rev 5:9 & Rev 7:9.
The thing that has always struck me is that HWA could have been on the side that was pushing for what was right. He could have been right there, marching with Dr. King, as were many well known rabbis, ministers, and priests, but instead he established himself as a continuing part of the problem. Based on gospel accounts of Jesus' interactions with various people of different backgrounds, It seems obvious that He loved all of His humans.
ReplyDeleteOddly enough, at the height of the Civil Rights Movement, HWA had no issues with traveling around the globe to meet with "important" people of many diverse ethnicities. This leads me to believe that his racism was selective, and it seems to have been based on the intensity of skin pigmentation, and socioeconomic class of the individuals involved. It has been very enlightening and educational for some racist individuals if a close female relative happened to be a bit adventuresome in her dating activities, but with HWA's hard mindset he most likely would have disowned any such relative.
Racism is a horrible, abhorrent thing, but there are numerous far more serious reasons for canceling HWA. Compared to the incest, it's a relatively minor peccadillo.
BB
That's a great point BB,
DeleteHWA didn't have to travel that far to inquire some leadership who were of the darker pigmentation that were of the nominal christian variety (ie black baptist civil rights leader). Probably could have gotten more insight, and not have to integrate after the civil rights act was passed.He could have been ahead of the ballgame in that area. And the problem with Armstrongism, is that some of his erroneous viewpoints are still held by the older members of some of the splinter groups. And correct God and Christ both loved everyone, and Christ made sure to send that angel to communicate to Phillip to travel for the baptism of the ethiopian man. For with God there is no respect of persons. But with Armstrongism...
Well regarding 5:52. The way the British Scientists coined "Races" in the 19th Century was what we now would call "Peoples" or "Tribes." In WCG top leaders were Jews and the entire HWA BI premiss was a promotion of Jews as contrasted to the incredible antisemitism in the USA at the time. And I am referencing Henry Ford here and his 1 million newspaper distributed from all Ford agents for years. Oh yes another anti semitic American Hero....this fellow that flew over the Ocean.
ReplyDeleteAnyway. The Armstrongist BI in extremely Revolutionary manner claimed that both jews and Americans were Israel and therefore brothers or cousins. This was at a time when WASPS were losing control because of the huge emigration from Catholic Countries and Jews from Eastern Europe.
So in a way Armstrongism was very Inclusive, Modern an promoted integration that later jews perfected by producing the entire American Songbook like White Christmas with songs that did not mention Jesus but did promote "Winter Festivals."
Spanish people and Mexicans were far more looked at with suspicion than Jews in the Church. Because Latins were BOTH gentiles and by the 19th century standards of Armstrongism "of another race." It was not until GTA liked that pastors wife from Mexico very much that Latins were seen as fully converted.
Did I mention the American immigration laws from the 1890's until the 1950's and the races and quota.
I find it interesting that HWA as a Chicago fact finder for business journals did not fall for his contemporaries ideas of Henry Ford.....but rather made a business fear mongering about Germans and industrialists. Being of Scottish Quaker stock gave him this firm foundation in simple pastoral inclusiveness.
As a West Coaster he did buy into the prevalent Yellow Scare so prevalent after US interventions in Hong Kong and Japan.
Am I in favor of Race Mixing. Not really since I like and enjoy diversity. If the mixing and loosing of complete diversity is wrong in any way than I believe that Climate Change and Darwinism will sort it out.
nck
Look.
ReplyDeleteOne day in 1892 a man was born.
He was raised in a Christian household.
He was appalled by the changes and destruction Industrialisation had brought to the pristine countryside, but mostly the kind of humans being the pinnacle of God's creation, not reaching their awesome potential.
Furthermore he was especially shocked by the experiences of WW1 and man's capability for evil after the fall where a mistake had been made regarding 2 trees.
He stumbled upon ancient European tales about peoples before time. Most were written down by monks in the 15th 13th and 10th centuries. Some containing truth others distortions others concoctions. He mixed them with Christian tales and themes in order that man could redeem themselves and with the help of God, through their message.
In the end that message was broadcast to millions.
Of course y'all know who I am talking about....
His name is.......
John Ronald Reuel Tolkien
When the USA got humiliated by the most Godless of people
ReplyDeletethe entire industrial and political establishment of the Free and Christian world looked at 1 man in Pasadena. This man worked tirelessly to bring man into the realm that until then had been the sole dominion of God.
This man working from Pasadena you of course all know.....
His name is Werner von Braun.
Nck
With all the growth COGs are having in Africa, why do we see no African natives on COG councils and boards?
ReplyDeleteIt should be logical. But some U.S. ministers will tell you - it's because they're not trustworthy. Ask Dr, Thiel about that.
Love the AI video on this topic. One of the things they bring up is how Armstrong brings up the Acts 17:26 “boundaries and dwellings” as a means of segregation. What is even sadder, is that pretty much all the splinter groups use this scripture for the same reason, which is for segregation in regards to relationships. And this is even crazier now since the cog populations have declined and there are splinter groups with no two or three campuses after the split for young adults. Like let’s keep making it harder for young people. They refuse to get the context of what Paul was talking about in that passage, or even read a few verses later that mentions we are all God’s offspring (27-28).
ReplyDeleteYou know one of the things that Armstrong continually said was, “go get your bible, dust off your bible, don’t believe me , but believe your own bible!” And they love the Old Testament so much, and put themselves back there in that covenant, BUT they refuse to cover all those Old Testament examples of interracial unions even within God’s leaders in the old covenant. It’s hypocritical, and he never cared if a German American married an Irish American. Or an Italian American married a "British descended" American. He was influenced by living in Oregon so much. I know he somewhat changed his views on segregation, but he really didn’t want to. It’s really about loving your neighbor as yourself.
Tank You Very Much
Removing the racial elements of BI, or even the now obvious lack of DNA evidence, linguistic or historical holes in the classic HWA USBC theory, is there any legitimacy for the concept that the United States is a nation of "Manifest Destiny". In other words, the USA (as a mixed race, mixed nationality multitude) is a typology of a modern day "Israel" ??
ReplyDeleteWhat you guys should understand us that Liberia was an American project years before HWA came on the scene.....
ReplyDeleteNck
I would say "I thought everyone knew that", but I know better.
DeleteAnonymous 8:04 wrote, “I would argue however that racial bigotry IS most definitely what the Bible teaches. The Old Testament -- which purports to speak for the same God as the New Testament -- very clearly espouses racist sentiments.”
ReplyDeleteI disagree wholeheartedly. It is always possible that the OT contains material edited in over its long period of curation. But, in general, I do not think the OT is racist. Or that God is racist. God was against foreign religions having an influence on Israel. At that time, foreign religions were mapped pretty strictly to races. God wanted the Canaanites destroyed not because they were a different race from Israel but because they carried a pagan religion. The Canaanites were, in fact, the same race as Israel. Genetics demonstrates that they are the modern Lebanese. Armstrongists introduced the idea that Canaanites were West African Blacks (the lineage of most American Blacks who descended from slaves), hence, focusing the wrath of God described in the Bible on American Blacks. Essentially, this was a political weaponization and racialization of the Bible. And it informed the views of the average lay member sitting in Armstrongist congregations.
God says his Temple will be a House of Prayer for all nations in Isaiah 56:7. Minorities in Israel were not to be discriminated against it says in Leviticus 19:34. Egyptians were to be permitted into the congregation after the third generation and Egyptians were of a different race from Israel. Israelites were to love aliens as if they were Israelites the Bible does not teach racial bigotry if you understand the connections between the tribes of the Middle East. Racism was more of an manipulation done by Armstrongists through Hoeh’s politicized Legendarium of History.
Scout
Who was the only person God promised through Jeremiah that they would survive the fall of Jerusalem?
ReplyDeleteA black man.
Is this podcast AI generated? The hosts sound very generic.
ReplyDeleteGreat comment Scout 645. I also wanted to take a shot at Anon804 but you did a thorough job. I marvel when mere mortals void of understanding sit in judgement of Almighty God. After all, He is God and we are not!
ReplyDeleteAlso, as we consider those individuals who stood out in history as champions of the downtrodden and the advancement of the endeavors of humanity, remember that "things are not always what they seem"!
Consider this man of humble beginnings. A Christian minister dedicated to charitable activity, who, at an unfavorable time in the past was a civil rights activist, promoted racial integration, was praised by the NAACP, was, with his wife, the first white couple in his state to adopt a black child. He was a friend to politicians and he even influenced elections. He occupied a seat on his city's human rights commission. He was praised by presidential candidates and the first lady of the United States. He was touted as a combination of Martin Luther King, Angela Davis, Einstein and Mao. He was actually thought to be on the path of being Dr. King's successor. He himself believed he was God's earthly vessel. BUT IT ALL WENT OFF THE RAILS and came crashing down!
In reality he was morally bankrupt, a drug addict, an atheist, communist and socialist. And in the end, a murderer of women and children, mostly black.
His name is Jim Jones.
Appearances can be misleading or deceptive, which is a key insight in understanding how " the whole world will wonder after the Beast", Rev.13:3.
11:05, A horrible comparison to lump Jim Jones in with people who were actually assassinated like MLK, Medgar Evers, Robert W. Spike and more from the civil rights era that were professing christians who were killed by a racist opposition. See unlike Armstrongism, their ministers don't lay down their lives for anybody. All they do is micromanage and judge people like pharisees.
DeleteThis is one example of how it all came to be......
ReplyDelete" As in the case of the promise made to Abraham, this line grew into a great people, increasing their dominion through the exercise of arms and subjecting the necks of many to their yoke."
This is how 11th century chronicler Goffredo Malaterra described the Normans in his chronicle The Deeds of Count Roger of Calabria and Sicily and of His Brother Duke Robert Guiscard:
"They are a very shrewd people indeed, quick to avenge injury, scorning the fields of their homeland in hope of acquiring something more, avid for profit and domination, ready to feign or conceal anything, maintaining a certain balance between avarice and largess. In their desire for a good reputation, their princes are the most liberal in their giving. This is a people that knows how to flatter. The Normans are in fact so dedicated to the study of eloquence that you would do well to give heed to their sons as you would to rhetoricians. Unless checked by the yoke of justice, they can be most unrestrained. They can endure great effort, hunger, and cold when fortune requires it. They devote themselves to hunting and falconry. They delight in luxury when it comes to horses and to the rest of the tools and costumes of war. They gave their land their own name: "north" in the English tongue refers to a region to the north. Because they came from the north, they called themselves "Normans" and their land "Normandy." In that province there is a city which is called Coutances, in the vicinity of which is an estate called Hauteville. We speculate that this villa was referred to as "high" [haute] not so much for the prominence of the hill upon which it sits but as an omen of the most noteworthy deeds and prosperous achievements that would be accomplished by those who would inherit it, climbing gradually with the help of God and their own vigor, to the summit of the highest honor. For we know of no time, whether in a previous generation or a later one, when it pleased divine providence to exalt a line to such a degree. As in the case of the promise made to Abraham, this line grew into a great people, increasing their dominion through the exercise of arms and subjecting the necks of many to their yoke."
Nck
I hope you aren't using Jim Jones to trash the entire Civil Rights movement! He was a baddie, a con man, an aberration. He was to religion what Bernie Madoff was to the financial services industry.
ReplyDeleteYou do realize that in grouping goats, tares, wolves, or whatever you choose to call bad representatives, Herbert W. Armstrong is frequently lumped in with Jim Jones, David Koresh, Chuck Dederich, Jim Bakker, Charles Manson and other deceptive, despicable cult leaders, do you not???
Its OK. PCG is definitely still afraid of us.
ReplyDelete855/1240
ReplyDeleteHow does Jim Jones differ from Bernie Madoff, Baker, Koresh and Manson? He was praised and glorified by the system, they were not!
Most people only know Jones by the Jonestown event, but before that, he was the darling of the liberal establishment. He was able to deliver what politicians want--power and votes. Even after the Jonestown event, California and San Francisco political boss Willie Brown (mentor of Diane Feinstein, Nancy Pelosi, and Kamala Harris), along with Jesse Jackson, considered Jones a "great man", having no regrets over their past association. Jackson still considered Jones to be a man that " worked for the people"!
I'm not trashing the civil rights movement, but what has that movement really accomplished and produced in the last 60 years but chaos and confusion? Today, anyone who does not agree with the official social engineered narrative is considered a racist, a sexist, a hate monger, or white supremacist. Not true. The fact is, racism is a product of the old nature. It's not unique to the white man. It will not be solved or corrected by any movement man can muster up. The only solution is what Lonnie has called "the new person", the new man created in Jesus Christ (Galatians 3:28, Colossians 3:11). We are called to love and treat everyone as ourselves.
I stand by my point, " things are not always what they seem". There are many prominent individuals in society in positions of authority who APPEAR to be agencies of light and righteousness (2 Cor.11:13-15) when they are not. Jim Jones, the coming Beast, and this blog site are testimonies to that.
Last paragraph? Yeah. We certainly know this from living under the so-called "Apostle", HWA.
Delete6:23 “what has that movement really accomplished and produced in the last 60 years but chaos and confusion.”
DeleteHere we go, and it sounds like the usual conservative fox news talking points. You can take someone like MLK or Malcolm X or say my black grandparents (born in the 1920’s or early 1930’s). When they voted and were in favor of the civil rights act: They didn’t have abortions in mind, illegal immigrants in mind, gay and lesbian rights in mind, women’s rights as (for feminism). They had in mind, rights for black people who have had lineages in America from the 1700’s and before. All that other liberal crap came later after that act was passed. Even my parents who were born in the 1950’s would have been too young to vote for the civil rights act, as they were teenagers.
So what I know, and you are not prepared for me to know, is that the white liberal after the 60’s with its benign neglect, ignored black people’s plight after they/we served in this country for centuries the liberal party lumped black people in with all the funny stuff. That’s why you see the lack of progress. All the wars and jobs, inventions, entertainment and more and they ignored black peoples economics. Dumping drugs and narcotics into the community and criminalizing blacks, but the opioid crisis today is a health issue. It's the two laws for two groups of people. (Notice they don't criminalize illegals, they just et them walk around making money). That movement in the 60's showed that HWA was wrong. "Love your neighbor as yourself", and most people can’t do it, and Christ purposely gave the Samaritan parable for that reason. That movement in the 60’s had men willing to lay their life down for their fellow man, even some jewish men lost their lives.
And if we are going to look back at the HWA movement, it seems as though through apostasy, splinterdom, and start ups, Armstrongism has also produced its own chaos and confusion.
Well, there you have it, when I cast my vote as a full-fledged American citizen back in November, it was nothing but chaos and confusion. God forbid, a black man vote! How dare we have demanded the right! We should have just sat on our asses while we were getting shut out and lynched, waiting on "the new person".
ReplyDeleteRSK 604 sarcastically asks, "when I cast my vote it was nothing but chaos and confusion"? Seriously? After January 6 and the last 4 years you see the political realm differently?
ReplyDeleteI know this " new person, seek first the kingdom " stuff doesn't compare to the progress (crumbs) our politicians through their Great Society and various movements since have dished out. We've never had it so good!
Others who also have it good thanks to politics and Jim Jones partnership and mentorship are Nancy Pelosi (net worth of $360 million), Willie Brown (70 million), Kamala Harris (8 million) and the great civil rights activist Jesse Jackson (10 million). They got rich, you got the vote, eternal life??? Well?
After Jonestown, Jackson STILL considered Jones to be a great man that worked for the people. I think at least 900 people would disagree!
How about 600K who drank the Kool-Aid from the confederacy. Yet and still, quite a few cog ministers STILL consider Lee to be a great man who worked with the people. Yet to this day, many will still agree.
DeleteLee was a great Patriot who remained true to Jefferson personal plan for Virginia and the USA as an agricultural country ruled by landed gentry to be expanded West for more agricultural plots as the basis of a free and moral people.
DeleteNck
There you guys have it. The fact that I can now vote, go to better schools, seek any job I wish, buy any real estate I want, and even enjoy public services like parks and beaches is apparently something that should have never happened.
DeleteNck, usually you come with a sense of sarcasm or humor. Regardless, your quote of Lee being a great Patriot, wanting to expanded West for free and moral people.
DeleteHistorically, anybody that was on the confederate side was considered a traitor to the union. A house divided cannot stand, (that's what happen to WCG too). Going west, you mean like Oregon? I will admit though, America did a great job expanding west regardless of who history gives credit to, but everything comes at a cost.
Historically whenever there's subjugation , war follows and the side doing the subjugation loses that war.
Confederacy (Slavery) lose Civil War
Ottoman Empire (Armenian Genocide) lose WWI
Nazi Germany (Holocaust) lose WWII.
How can you be a true patriot and be on the wrong side of history, and moral history? See King David, was a patriot, Abraham was a patriot.
5:23
DeleteThank you.
In order to understand my comment one must know Jefferson.
With West I mean West of Virginia. With Lees Patriotism, I mean a Patriot to the Commonwealth of Virginia, as Jefferson had intended the Union...
I do see it is hard to understand my point if one is not particularly familiar with Jefferson Federalism, the way he saw he saw free man live.... and this included land... why he set out the expedition West and what would constitute a state if new land was acquired.
Many military men in all the wars you mention serve their nation, their people, their government as true Patriots..... and therefore by definition many stood on the wrong side of history..... and perhaps even their faith and culture or personal longing for peace.
Nck
Yea, it's me again Nck, solid comment (I am 5:23). I will have to read the Jefferson Federalism myself. I am familiar with the Louisiana Purchase and the other form of historical western expansion that involved York, Clarke, Lewis and Sacajawea. Also James Beckwourth who was from Virginia. And having lived out West myself and seen so many national parks out there, I am just astounded at the beauty. Words really can't even describe. But I'll brush up on my history a bit. I am more of a John Adams historian, and I loved the HBOs docu series on him.
DeleteThat last part you mention was spot on. It applies to any leader from even those islamic nations like Gaddafi, Hussein.... Regardless of western media narratives. NOT saying they're good people, just saying they were patriots to their country. However a civil war creates other narratives IMO. I tend to lean on the leaders of the Revolutionary War being patriots.
Yep.
DeleteYou are solidly on the right side of history all right.....
From my side we've been loyal always, but according to historians even my first recorded ancestor was wrong from the first Crusade on. :-) - :) :-)
All is in the eye of the beholder, yet good and evil are blurry concepts....re King David the murdering man after God's own heart.
Unfortunately "self evident" is hard concept too....
Unless of course one is on the right side of history....
Nck
yet good and evil are blurry concepts ..... yea they are, especially when one considers the context, and then there is this thing of the intent or the intention of the heart.
DeleteIn humanity, we go through different eras, things change and become more or less acceptable. We need lithium, or back then we needed iron, or we need gun powder, or oil. Then we pass away, and a new generation comes in.
I do know this: Washington, Adam and Jefferson brought in that new era, a different country than having a king or a queen. They were like, " we gotta do something totally different than what some of our parents went through." And they did it. "Give me liberty or give me death" And as a Christian at the end its either eternal life or death.
Exactly....
DeleteIt is entirely possible that the nice people that raised us and we ourselves will in the year 2167 not even be mentioned in history books because we were "the evil car driving generation". :-) :-) :-)
Yet my hope is.... one fellow will say on the "hologram"... well this Nck and this anonymous fellow did try.... working with what they had.. they lived, loved, struggled...... yet they were the very instruments that destroyed the world as we knew it through their toil..... :-) :-)
BTW.
I'm not a nihilist.
I'm just having a free flowing conversation.
Nck
Amen to that. But you mean to tell me we have another 142 more years to go until the end...... Don't tell the ministers. LOL
DeleteNo. Armstrong creed in everything he preached was. We should live like it ends tomorrow. But plan for a full life and eternity.
DeleteNck
All those good things you mentioned should have happened immediately following Appomattox, RSK.
ReplyDeleteI suppose I shouldn't be surprised that certain peoples' world views have not progressed beyond the ignorance of that old PT article, but looks like we've just had an unfortunate little community reality check here. It'd be nice if they didn't consider racism to be part of the WCG's "faith once delivered"!
BB
I do agree with BB that all those good things should have immediately followed.... But it didn't and I m not for taking matters out of context or time period neither for Lee or HWA.
DeleteLee wrote
“Slavery as an institution,” he wrote, “is a moral & political evil in any Country. It is useless to expatiate on its disadvantages.” But he also believed slavery “a greater evil to the white than to the black race, & while my feelings are strongly interested in behalf of the latter, my sympathies are more strong for the former.” The fate of enslaved millions, he insisted, should be left in God’s hands: “Their emancipation will sooner result from the mild & melting influence of Christianity, than the storms & tempests of fiery Controversy.
And he was right that (civil) war would follow.
It is a hard thing for a military man like Lee to grasp HWAs message that moral redemption follows war and destruction not the other way around....
Nck
I'm just watching BBCs songs of praise. Where Christian Ladies socialize with Muslim newcomers smilingly talking about loving their neighbor, smilingly working toward their own destruction and that of their children...
DeleteNck
"All those good things you mentioned should have happened immediately following Appomattox, RSK."
DeleteWell, some of them did for a time. But within a decade or so the local and state governments and their patsies found workarounds to void it. Poll taxes, litmus tests, grandfather clauses, redlining, black codes, convict leasing, debt manipulation, etc etc etc.
Today, I own a 130-year old home in a historic neighborhood (mostly white) and Ive spent the past five years restoring it (it was rather... well, not blighted, but heading towards that when I bought it).
That wouldnt have been possible for even my father's generation in this city until the late 1960s.
Nck,
Delete"I'm just watching BBCs songs of praise. Where Christian Ladies socialize with Muslim newcomers smilingly talking about loving their neighbor, smilingly working toward their own destruction and that of their children."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Again, your starting the book at the end of the chapter or the end of the movie. Let's start back in previous chapters. Well if it were not for western christian nations military industrial complex invading Iraq, along with America messing up in Iran, Afghanistan and Libya and/or at least build those places back up, well then you wouldn't get migrants or refugees coming into those "christian nations."
So you got a brain drain in the UK now, with many young westerners in the UK are leaving to live in oil rich nations, living in south east asia and other parts of Europe. I wonder how "Ephriam" will be punished if this will continue to go on. But if America had rebuilt those middle east muslim countries like they did Europe and Japan after WWII, we wouldn't be discussing this "islamic invasion." I agree with your sentiments Nck, but this is the situation, it sucks.
I wasn't aware we had so many closet humanistic types on this site, who's worldview is so enamored with all the authority, glory, and accomplishments of "man" (Luke 4:5-6).
ReplyDeleteYes I do have a different outlook, and it's not Armstrongism! The FACT that one can do, have, or enjoy ANYTHING is a matter of trusting the One who is the giver of every good gift (James 1:17, Psalms 34:8-10, 84:11-12). I believe the Lord's prayer says something about that.
Yes anon.920, this world system is nothing but benign neglect, ignoring people's plight, and double standards. Those are the consequences of putting one's trust in the wrong place (see Jeremiah 17:5-11, Psalms 146:3).
Read all of Psalms 146. It is quite revealing!
Anon 6:05,
DeleteAnd I didn't know we had so many closet variant types on this site. Trust yourself, it ain't the minorities of America that brag or boast of their worldview of the accomplishments of man no more than the common westerner. "We invented the lightbulb, we invented the telephone, we invented aviation, we invented the railroad." I don't think a group of people who you are referring to simply put their trust in this or that political party. They just simply live in a nation, in a difficult situation back then (losing ones whole culture, unlike immigrants) and tried to find the best place where they can live life to the fullest and be content. It wasn't about putting their trust in this or that system. It's like on one side it's hot, but over there on the other side it's less hot.
Even though you're not Armstongist, people we know from armstrongism put their trust in man, even a dead man, they put their trust in a Trump or other cult of personalities down through time, or the stock market (riches) or whatever. When reading Matthew 25 about the sheep and goats, one better have a love for humanity. When reading James the 2nd chapter, one better have a love for humanity. It's about considering others Philippians 2:3-4. Those humanitarian duties are outline in scripture, so it shouldn't be a shock. Those who put their trust in the Lord, end up loving Him and their neighbor as themselves.
Oh, so God would prefer I be subject to pre1963 mores, eh?
DeleteContinuing…
DeleteThen considering the very beginning of the gospel that Christ preached in Luke 4 in one of his first sermons, His focus is on the poor, the brokenhearted, the captives, the blind, the oppressed. So there was this humanitarian concern element that is always there. And if a certain group of people were oppressed then they will naturally take a side to be least oppressed. It doesn’t necessarily mean they trust in that side.
Luke 4:16-18 He went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and stood up to read. And He was handed the book of the prophet Isaiah. And when He had opened the book, He found the place where it was written. “The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me, Because He has anointed Me To preach the gospel to the poor; He has sent Me [i]to heal the brokenhearted, To proclaim liberty to the captives And recovery of sight to the blind, To set at liberty those who are oppressed;
You bring up some good points with scripture BP8, but we can respectfully agree to disagree with the minor.
Queue up "Cult of Personality" a very appropriate opus to this discussion, by Living Color! Also watch it on You Tube, and click on the Wikipedia article.
ReplyDeleteBB
Yea all those news media outlets need to cut Living Colour a check, it was their phrase, and one heck of a song!
DeleteBB must be a C.M. Punk fan, lol.
ReplyDeleteNever heard of CM Punk until you just mentioned him, BP8. I've always been a Billy Jack (Tom Laughlin) fan, and a fan of his trainer Bong Soo Han as well especially when I was studying the martial arts.
DeleteBB