Many a sermon has been heard by countless ministers expressing their desire to see this happen. They have gone too long doing what was right in God's eyes and still suffering as they watch those around them receiving all kinds of good things. It's not right, and their god is ready to wreak havoc. They need the world to be spanked with a rod of iron. Rod Meredith was particularly fond of this, and thus today, Bwana Bob Thiel, his apostate protege, also needs his god to be angry.
I saved the following quote from some COG site a while back that expresses this same desire today. They were ticked off at an article in Beyond Today, a cheap version of Tomorrow's World. How dare Jesus return and deal gracefully with those in the world! How dare he!
They were offended at this article:
I saved the following quote from some COG site a while back that expresses this same desire today. They were ticked off at an article in Beyond Today, a cheap version of Tomorrow's World. How dare Jesus return and deal gracefully with those in the world! How dare he!
Not sure I agree with their statement that the Government of God won't be controlling....Christ is going to rule with a rod of iron, any who rebel will suffer no rain. Sounds pretty controlling to me....as it should be. I'm afraid many in God's Church have forgotten a lot of doctrine.
They were offended at this article:
The Sept-Oct 'Beyond Today' contains some excellent items. https://www.ucg.org/learn/beyond-today-magazine/beyond-today-magazine-september-october-2025
Eg point 3 on page 11 "It will be a government that leads the people without being controlling or abusive"; point 7 on page 13 "Perfect justice will be administered"; "Civil Disagreement" on page 29.
Thought this was not an Anti-God blog? You brazenly contradict scripture frequently! esp hypocrisy. Ha!
ReplyDeleteFor who has forgotten the angry God the Tkatchites love to bully sabbath biblical Christians with ?
To be fair, the ACOGs aren't the only Christians who love a pissed-off God (think "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God"). I believe that most of this derives from trying to make God in our image and interpreting language which was intended to be symbolic literally. They forget that God is love, and that love is "his" standard. They forget that God's plan is to SAVE humankind, NOT condemn it!
ReplyDeleteHow perfectly awful would it be to spend eternity with no free will, total compliance always and in every way, no relationships unless fornication was now okay since we "neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like the angels" and having to listen to eternal Musak of one station and one tune.
ReplyDelete"Each of the four living creatures had six wings and was covered with eyes all around, even under its wings. Day and night they never stop saying: “’Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty,’ who was, and is, and is to come.” Rev 4:8
If an Angel could commit suicide, these are candidates to keep an eye on.
For a realistic view of what Eternity in Heaven/Paradise/ "The Kingdom of God"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzGvxQPi9YE
Do you mean the things you type ? Really mean them ? Or like a immature child are you more motivated by trying to upset others? So you type the most obscene remarks you can think of ?
DeleteI do not follow the events of Splinterdom in a careful or studious way. There are yet some sociological principles that may have role in the formation of the cultic view that Jesus is an angry god. Cults prize control. So, it is not surprising that they advance the idea of an angry God. Cult leaders want to use the threat of a menacing God to ensure the control of the minds of the cult members. Cult leaders will never preach a God of grace. In all the sermonizing at the Feast of Tabernacles, I doubt that the word “grace” was ever mentioned. When I was an Armstrongist I don’t ever remember hearing the term during the FoT. If you look around in MOA you will find a very anemic and very briefly mentioned idea of grace. Yet grace is what separates Christianity from the pagan religions of the world. The pagan religions are all transactional and assert angry gods that must be appeased usually by acts of self-affliction and the surrender of material goods.
ReplyDeleteI am a pre-millennialist and I believe that Jesus will return in power at the beginning of the Millennium. He is in power now but we will see that openly extend into geopolitical governance of nations when he returns. The waiver will expire. I expect there will be convincing displays of his power that will amount to an “attitude adjustment” for the nations. Prophecy indicates there will be hold-outs. But a measured, temperate and appropriate use of power does not amount to a God of violence and fear. The angry Jesus is the melodramatic concoction of preachers who wish to ride on the coat-tails of their angry god in asserting their lordship over hapless followers.
I think the idea that Egypt will be punished if the Egyptians do not keep the FoT during the Day of the Lord is overplayed at the Armstrongist FoTs. No doubt such preaching made everyone sitting in the congregations feel like they were on the “right side” of God without recourse to Jesus. Fear instead of grace. I think the Jews had the right spirit of grace in their observance of the FoT. They sacrificed 70 bulls for all the nations of the world and prayed for their well-being.
John of Patmos tells us that there will still be large numbers of people at the end of the Millennium that will rise up in rebellion against Jesus who will be ruling from Jerusalem. My guess is that if Jesus were running a taut, autocratic, controlling government, there would be no room for such an insurrection to be even organized.
My two cents …
Scout
Dennis wrote, "Day and night they never stop saying: “’Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty,’ who was, and is, and is to come.”
ReplyDeleteI was always intrigued by that description. I believe it must be hyperbolic which clues us into how figure of speech plays in the writing of the OT. On the other hand, there are many ways of "saying" God is Holy. It can be through living a Godly life. You give expression not with your mouth but with your being. That may sound apologetic, but it is rather a recognition that the Bible contains poetry.
Scout
God is not a lording god. This isn't some perk or act of kindness, but rather a prerequisite for character development. I'm always struck by the freedom God gives individuals and nations in the OT. He blesses and curses depending on their choices, but the freedom is there. This is in big contrast to contemporary Christianity (which the ACOGs have followed) that does the exact opposite. These churches infantilise their members and keep them under a giant magnifying glass. Freedom (from others) is kept at a minimum.
ReplyDeleteDuring the millennium, freedom will be kept at a maximum with government's role aligning with America's founding fathers belief that the role of government is to principly protect its citizens life, property and rights.
Thank you Scout for your two cents worth. Worth reading and food for thought.
ReplyDeleteI believe the kingdom will be better than what we as mere humans could imagine. We see faintly and catch glimpses here and there within scripture. The Armstrong model was flawed. Your comment about a future rebellion against the future kingdom is revealing. If they as Armstrongism believe, are ruling with power and authority then they have failed in their rulership roles. What then for this failed leadership, punishment? Humanity is seeking Eldorado, through politics religion, and our steps, our searching has lead to bloody carnage over millennia. This inherent searching I believe was placed within us from above. The present state of mankind is a convincing mark against us, that we have not found the solutions and dare I say it, only a strong hand for afar can deliver us from our present chaos. As Jesus said ‘with man it is impossible but with God all things are possible’. That’s my cents worth. Cheers.
In my opinion, God has every right to display any emotion He desires to display. It's just unfortunate that the COG ministers display more anger and control more than any other emotion. Their prophetic hope within their gospel is to rule with a "rod of iron" and that's what they try to portray in present day. They should have been more happier with grace back in the glory days of worldwide, instead their attitude cost them. The fruit of the spirit is love, joy, peace.....
ReplyDeleteBecky Sweat's article also says (in point 3) that Christ and His kings/priests will "exercise firm power when needed. At times it will be necessary..."
ReplyDeleteThe staff... then the rod.
But her article is more eye-opening because she seems to take on some things that Trump 2.0 is doing.
She writes against "intrusive surveillance measures in community venues," the removal of "privileges" from people who "say or do something deemed subversive," as well as "false charges, arbitrary arrests..."
Scout,
ReplyDeleteI thought you believed that Revelation pointed to 70AD and the destruction of the temple and thus you were a postmillenniumist. Perhaps it was conjecture. Or are you a hybrind?
Appreciate your posts.
Dennis 641
ReplyDeleteSpending eternity doing SOMETHING has to be better than spending eternity doing NOTHING, because you are dead forever. That's your only hope!
The Kingdom of God perfectly awful? You do err not knowing the scriptures or the power of God. That's perfectly awful!
Eternal death is the ultimate form of peace, BP8. The cessation of consciousness. Living forever is the continuation of the soap opera in one form or another.
DeleteI don't know if this is still done in the ACOG era, but back in the day, the church used to instill a persecution complex into members. "The "World" will hate you!" And, members would go around looking for examples of this in their everyday lives, either consciously or unconsciously. It was almost a rite of passage, another proof that we were on the right track.
ReplyDeleteThe by-product of this was an attitude towards non-members that, "They'll get theirs in the tribulation and when Christ returns!" That attitude never struck me as being particularly Christ-like.
Anonymous 8:52 wrote: "I thought you believed that Revelation pointed to 70AD and the destruction of the temple and thus you were a postmillenniumist. Perhaps it was conjecture. Or are you a hybrind?"
ReplyDeleteI am going to guess at what I think you mean in order to formulate some answers. I believe the Tribulation happened in 70 AD and resulted in the destruction of the Temple. I seriously doubt that there is going to be yet another Tribulation. The idea that there is going to be a latter, second Tribulation is a Millerite hermeneutic and is, therefore, dubious. Prophecy is their favorite discussion topic, but it is not their theological strong point.
I am a premillennialist because I believe the Parousia will happen at the beginning of the Millennium.
That's my guesswork. But I have no idea what you mean by the "hybrid" comment. You'll have to explain further.
Scout
A reoccurring theme on this blog is the assertion that the fall of Jerusalem in 70AD was the Great Tribulation.
ReplyDeleteI find this belief shocking as it is doesn't stand at all when looked at through scripture.
The Great Tribulation is described as a future global event even much more intense that the horrific destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD.
When did a third of the animals die around the world?
When did the sea dry up?
When did the water turn to blood?
When did the stars fall on earth?
Oh was it poetry? Not meant to be literally. But scripture calls the great tribulation a time when "no flesh would be saved" without divine intervention. Something not possible in the ancient world of 70AD. Only possible in these modern times.
The fall of Jerusalem was a localised event though horrific and deadly the scale of the great tribulation is on a global worldwide event affecting the entire world and all it's inhabitants.
Anon, Monday, October 20, 2025 at 7:03:33 AM PDT, wrote:
Delete"A reoccurring theme on this blog is the assertion that the fall of Jerusalem in 70AD was the Great Tribulation.
I find this belief shocking as it is doesn't stand at all when looked at through scripture.
The Great Tribulation is described as a future global event even much more intense that the horrific destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD.
When did a third of the animals die around the world?
When did the sea dry up?
When did the water turn to blood?
When did the stars fall on earth?
Oh was it poetry? Not meant to be literally. But scripture calls the great tribulation a time when "no flesh would be saved" without divine intervention. Something not possible in the ancient world of 70AD. Only possible in these modern times.
The fall of Jerusalem was a localised event though horrific and deadly the scale of the great tribulation is on a global worldwide event affecting the entire world and all it's inhabitants."
******
Overall, Anon, nice observations exposing something true that was written in the Bible!
Yes, when did a 1/3 of this and a 1/3 of that (A reference to the wrath of the Lamb, those 7 Trumpets) occur? It hasn't, but that time period is coming, and it encompasses lots of time; however, in Matthew 24 that you alluded to talks about great tribulation, and not "the great tribulation." There is no definite article, "the," with those words.
Great tribulation? Yes.
And Jesus told His followers there would be tribulation:
"These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." John 16:33
In fact, mankind, since the day Satan was allowed to infest the minds of Adam and Eve, has been in tribulation under the reign of Satan (Eph 6:12) to this day, and beyond, until it comes time for his "pit-stop."
God knows good and evil. Adam and Eve, when created, only knew good, until that time Satan entered into their lives, and then they, like all of us, have been exposed to all sorts of evils and we're all coming to hate the evils. Thankfully, this way of life (death?) isn't forever, because where would the good news be in any of that? Well, the cessation of life does serve a purpose.
So, Anon, you have those Trumps in mind. What about them 7 Vials that will occur over a 1,000 years later, which are the wrath of God, Jesus' God, Jesus' Father?
When might all flesh (not all spirit) be extinguished? You said: "no flesh would be saved."
What did Jesus Christ mean by those words?
To be continued...
John
Continuing...
DeleteDid Jesus have in mind what you believe?
Will that time occur after the 7 Trumps?
Will that time occur after the time of those heavenly signs?
Will that occur after the 1,000 years, after Satan is loosed from the pit, and possibly at the end of that short/little time/season of time?
God's wrath is not a 1/3 of this or a 1/3 of that type of destruction, but it appears that the Vials deal with total destruction, and then a "seventh angel" pours out that last Plague/Vial and a voice says something:
"And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done." Revelation 16:17
Did Jesus know what He was talking about when sharing that knowledge with His disciples? Did He lie?
Why does an angel say: "It is done?" Will it be after all flesh is wiped out?
Divine intervention?
Could it be sometime after that angel speaks that good news relative to Abraham finally shall become reality?
"And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, [saying], In thee shall all nations be blessed." Galatians 3:8
Could it be that the hirelings of the former WCG ((e.g. Flurry, Weinland, Pack, Coulter, Franks, Rogers, Weston, Winnail, Kubik, Shabi (now deceased), etc.)) have left their ministerial credentials behind when they fled from that Pasadena organization, to go out and do things so much better than HWA, to just go out and do things their own way(s), and have just continued to leave God's sheep in a scattered and confused situation? What's new under the sun? The ancient Israelites encountered similar situations, and it just does not work...but, this it writing about flesh and blood! What about them principalities?
Abram, aka Abraham, was told: "...and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed."
That, to me, sounds like something to happen as some sort of a "...global worldwide event affecting the entire world and all it's inhabitants".
That has yet to happen. What is the gospel? Is it possible that there is another spirit, another gospel, another Jesus being preached to us?
Did Abraham really know the gospel? Did the LORD, that God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob, Jesus' God and Father, lie to Abraham....and to us?
Time will tell...
John
'John'. I can clearly see who you are, after all the nasty lies and evil machiniations you love to say and plot about myself and my family members, your pathetic fake names will always be snubbed by me.
DeleteScout,
ReplyDeleteThanks for clearing that up. I presumed those that thought Revelation was, in part, describing 70AD were postmillennialists...almost by definition. But, remembering you had said you were a premillennialist, I thought yours must have been a hybrid of the two, but apparently they are mutually exclusive. My 20+ extra years in the COGs, after around when you left, has put me behind where I would have been. But, I'm making strides.