Here is an admission by a splinter Church of God group that lays out once and for all that Armstrongism is dying off. The comment that no one cares about HWA's so called truths is an understatement.
It is unfortunate that in this day and age there are just not very many people interested in “holding fast” to the truth and doctrines that God restored and revealed through His end-time apostle Mr. Herbert W. Armstrong. Yes, there are many “congregations” out there with various “Church of God” names, but the overwhelming majority of these do not hold fast to all of the true teachings (doctrine) of Jesus Christ. Most are satisfied with settling in and attending these congregations and not being “disturbed” or having to change or repent of anything. I often call this their “comfort zones”.
Like many of the splinter groups that seek to preserve all things Herb, prior to 1986, this group has taken it to a new extreme. Their statement of beliefs and organization is from the radio Church of God,1948. Talk about living the past!
They then make the following comment:
God did the GREATEST work that He ever did through a human instrument, here in the end time through Mr. Herbert W. Armstrong.
What an impotent little god this must be that sat by for close to 2,000 years doing nothing till Herb came on the scene. How disgusting and denigrating this is to the myriads of faithful men and women who died for their beliefs through the centuries. So Herb was greater than Martin Luther? Luther boldly proclaimed his beliefs in defiance of the established church while Herb could only go around talking about "a strong hand from someplace." So which has had a greater impact upon the world? Luther or Herb.......?
Their web site is filled with all things HWA. If you ever wanted a temple of idolatry for HWA this is one of them. They are just short of the 'eternal candle' that one failed web site had 'burning' on its page a couple of years back. Hold Fast
It is extremely frustrating to me that like the men in the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, they just don't get it. The minister who committed adultery on his wife while she was dying of cancer doesn't understand why his church he founded afterward isn't growing. Any atheists and agnostics want to venture an answer to that one? Everybody but the minister can see it, apparently.
ReplyDeleteThe latest in outrageous manifestations is Howard Davis of the United Church of God, an International Association, coming to Tacoma to give a sermon on "More Sure Prophecy". Again, the congregation was regailed with the astonishing message that Herbert Armstrong did not finish the Work because he didn't go to all nations and that is why Christ can't return yet. So UC Gaia is going to do an "Internet Work" so they can preach to the Chinese.
Does anyone else find this entirely disturbing?
United has tried this before with Japan. They got all excited and were going to go into India where 500 Million people speak English. I know: I get them on the phone when I need technical help. For several years I worked in the same room with someone from India. He is brilliant, with a Master's degree in Physics and a highly qualified IT Technologist.
I am pretty sure the people in India are not interested in an "Internet Work". The ones I know fairly thoroughly are interested in their families. If there is one thing I know, Armstrongists want to take people away from their families to support their particular idolatrous "Work".
I'm pretty sure the Chinese are the same way. I had a Chinese man straight from the Mainland work for me as a contractor. It was clear from the begining that he was interested in himself and his family. World girdling pervasive events were of some small interest as it touched on his life.
It seems pretty clear to me that United is trying the same old tired things which continue to fail, as do all the other Armstrongists. After all, they couldn't hold on to South America, so now they want to go out to China? Excuse me?
It's all part of their program to move progressively to an all volunteer ministry, except for the 5 or so top dogs at the Home Office.
No, we're not interested in holding fast to nonsensical heretical fantastical beliefs we can prove are not true. Wasn't our first clue failed prophecy? It sort of goes downhill from there.
We are interested in where things are going for us personally and providing for our families. Even that is Scriptural. If you can't do that -- and fewer and fewer can, given our current outrageous financial situation growing worse daily -- there's no use engaging with outside nations who will more that absorb anything a tiny little "Work" could do.
Note: Bibles are highly regarded in India, because the paper makes terrific cigarettes.
If I were personally going to get involved with people in say, Africa, I'd really want to know about the administration of the resources. The Armstrongists have shown themselves to be rather poor administrators. Of course, I'd like to make sure my family and I can eat first.
So United has admitted publically that Herbert Armstrong has failed.
What a shock.
Hold fast to what? Prphecies that were a lot of hot air based on a book that is at best a work of fiction about a god that is a total fabrication?
ReplyDeleteWhen you see through British Israelism, everything Herbert ever taught goes down the tube straight into the sewer or cesspool.
Insanity knows no bounds. The desperate clinging to the illusory mirage.
Don't the brainiacs from UCG know that India already has Christianity in it. It is quit prominent in some areas. They certainly do NOT need Armstrong's version there. Especially from UC Gaia
ReplyDeleteUnited is planning to go to China... via Internet. India is so last Millenia.
ReplyDeleteAgain, UCG couldn't hold on to one third of its own church south of the border. One wonders what harm would be done to the Chinese, as if the people in China haven't suffered enough.
Of course, don't you wonder just how the First commision to the Land of Israel is going for the Armstrongists? Funny, they don't seem to talk much about bringing the "Truth" to the Jews.
This would be particularly problematic, since many of the Jews know more about the whole Bible than any of the Armstrongist ministers.
I guess they would rather go to people who are totally ignorant of their British Israel scam in China.
In the picture you posted, it looks as if Herbert is about to punch himself in the head.
ReplyDeletePerhaps he had a Freudian slip of the fist.
The lack of interest in religious form as opposed to spirituality is due to the increase in knowledge about the origins of religion, including the Christian one.
ReplyDeletePeople don't need a topic specific booklet that cruises through the Bible cutting and pasting a particular topic together to get the one true answer. A teen can go on the web during a sermon and read about the topic of the sermon or the "facts" being given during one.
One of the signs of the 'end of the age" is the increase of knowledge. This is true and the reason is that knowledge will end the age of illusions, delusions, misinformation, exaggerated claims of authority and pious conviction peppered with marginal information.
It's not a bad thing. Knowledge increasing is not the friend of the a pastor or church stuck in their misunderstandings and yet demanding compliance
The original text said:
ReplyDelete"And Behold, in the latter days, women shall be liberated from the Apostle Paul's opinions and misunderstanding of the Old Testament Mythologies, and Knowledge shall be increased. And we shall be found out."
:)
Or how about this newly discovered text.
ReplyDelete"Behold, in the fatter days, men shall be scrubbers of their own shelves. Loud, roasters. Lovers of pressure more than rubbers of dogs.
From such learn away."
Or something like that
Hahaha,
ReplyDeleteOnce again I point out:
HWA lived like a king and died in fabulous luxury, and you can't touch him in any way....
Ergo, all of your weakling jibes at HWA miss the mark entirely.
Banned by HWA's writhing frustration over this fact is palpable.
*head shaking*
Later, haters
What's with this "haters" stuff? Because we expose deception and falsehood doesn't mean we are haters. We are lovers of truth and honesty.
ReplyDeleteWe atheists are accused of being hateful when we expose the deceptions of religion. Of course, their denouncements of their opponents are love incarnate. Go figure.
Athe-exter,
ReplyDeleteTextbook atheism is always the same: "I hate god, so THERE IS NO GOD!"
You atheists ARE 'haters.' You hate things you can't understand. The only thing you're exposing is your own double-mindedness.
In a non-god amoral world there is no love, truth, honesty, deception, falsehood ... only dog eat dog until you die, so cut the morality-babble, and be the true son of Darwin's baboon that you're only pretending to be.
All atheists are bitter to the bone, but some half-atheists are covered over with morality-babble.
Long John Silver, or whoever you are: The fact is not everyone on this site is atheist. I,as an example, have a personal relationship with God. I do not hate Mr. Armstrong, but recognize him as one who contaminated the gospel with his personal theories, and therefore left a very flawed legacy as a result of his false and toxic teachings. I've needed to do some serious work to recover from his damage, but, Jesus taught us that unless we forgive, we cannot be forgiven.
ReplyDeletePart of my beliefs involve pointing out, correcting, and helping others avoid damage which false teachers can inflict. That is an act of love, not hate. I wish someone had been able to do that for me!
BB
"You atheists ARE 'haters.' You hate things you can't understand."
ReplyDeleteLack of understanding? Maybe you are right; I certainly cannot grasp this concept of an invisible magical being who created reality with his magical magic a long time ago. A magic being that no one has heard, or seen, except for ancient eyewitness accounts written in a magic book that also features talking snakes and donkeys. And more magic.
But I wouldn't say "hate," for I don't hate god anymore than I hate leprechauns- but I know this belief helps you get through the day, so if you want to believe that atheists hate your god, then so be it. It's much more comforting to think that someone who rejects the existence of gods does so out of anger (which doesn't make any sense; if god is real then no amount of anger will make her unreal) than because there is absolutely no evidence.
"In a non-god amoral world there is no love, truth, honesty, deception, falsehood ..."
This is not true. I know several atheists whose behaviors are no different now than when they were Christians. Of course, that isn't the best example considering Christians have the same behaviors as alot of non-Christians, but anyway. These people love their spouses, families, and children, and practice no more deception and falsehood than Christians do.
What is amazing, is that they somehow, mysteriously, find reason to treat others kindly without the aid of an ancient magical book and the commands of a psychopathic deity.
Paul Ray
Byker Boob,
ReplyDeleteI can appreciate you....its those sons of Darwin's baboon that I'm addressing.
I was in WCG for ten plus years and suffered no damage at all, just deep disappointment in the end. My faith was always personal, I never surrendered it to any man. It continued thereafter, and is much stronger now than ever before.
I get tired of reading about grown men whining 25 years later about what HWA did to them. I worked closely with several ministers in my area and never experienced any of the malevolent machinations so fiendishly confessed on this second-rate, typo-infested, hate-rag.
Nothing is going to satisfy you mythology addicts. If you had the power, you would silence anyone who dares to criticize your "god."
ReplyDeleteI sure I'm distantly related to a bsboon because he's a primate also. I'm much more closely related to a chimpanzee. Take it back far enough and I'm related to all mammals and every other form of life. Helps me appreciate their diversity and sentience.
My rejection of your "god" has no basis in hatred. His so-called book has been proven to be a fictitious travesty and you truly don't know what you are actually worshipping. Why don't you go all the way and worship El (or El Elyon) his wife Asherah and his sons Baal and Yahweh. Might as well include all of the Elohim. I'm sure if any of them actually existed, they would appreciate being included again. See my blog on the "famn damily": http://theageofreason--21stcentury.blogspot.com/2011/02/its-all-about-famn-damily.html
"I get tired of reading about grown men whining 25 years later about what HWA did to them.'
ReplyDeleteThen get off this site and stop torturing yourself. Everyone has a different experience.
Ron Paul Ray,
ReplyDeleteYour textbook knee-jerk response is as predictable as a baboon slinging his own poop. Did you copy and paste it from an online 'Intro to Psychiatry' website?
It is exactly what every single athy says when his nihilistic faith is put to the test. Theists are puff-the-magic-dragon, fairies chasers, while admitted baboon descendants are noble savages who "mysteriously," as in 'magical mysteries,' are very moral wunderkins.
Remember that baboons also "love their spouses, families, and children," but that is not due to ethics or morality.
Since you don't understand 'god,' and you retain no proof of his existence, and since you don't know for sure if he exists, the most honest thing a reasonable person could say is, "I don't know, I'm agnostic. But I choose not to believe"
All atheists who say 'there is no god,' are liars on the surface of it, because NONE of them knows FOR CERTAIN if there is a 'creator' of this unfathomable universe. It is their faith, their belief only.
I believe that there IS a creator, there was never a time that I didn't believe this, and a life full of experiences has confirmed this personal philosophy, it is my faith. It is not my opium, crutch, or any other of the derogatory and predictable slurs which most noble atheists baboons sling at believers.
It is my strength, an otherworldly stability that can't be shaken, neither by you nor any other scoffer. I am never bitter, never alone, never confused about my existence, I am happy, my family is happy.
HWA didn't do anything at all to hurt me and I learned so much from the WCG/COG experience.
Chew on that wad for a while, grandpa.
Not-so-Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteTortured? just the opposite, its great sport! This barrel full of admitted monkey descendants in XXXL HWA-'woe is me' diapers is a riot to follow. Its the kookiest shin-dig on the world-wide web.
Hysterical stuff to share around the 'ole water cooler. I will try to stay on Banned by Baboons as long as possible.
When I said "theist" earlier I meant someone who does believe in a higher being.
ReplyDeleteAthe-exter,
Quite the contrary. I have no desire to silence your baboon fantasies, it only witnesses to and serves to strengthen my suspicions about spiritual blindness.
Your problem is you think that you have all the facts, and you have already made your judgment on insufficient evidence. The jury's still out, my primate acquaintance.
Your faith intrigues me, because I've never heard of betting on your horse to lose. What I mean is this:
If there is no creator, you lose because you're dead forever.
But if there is a creator, you also lose because you denied him.
But for me, if there is no creator, I'm dead, but I had a wonderful faith-filled life.
But if there is a creator, I win because of my faith and will get to judge all the baboons, who chose to hate him because of their unresolved bitterness.
So actually, if there is a creator, even if you lose, you win, because he'll forgive your blasphemy - that's real love!
Terry Silver and John Creese, (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZdZnB_2drc)
ReplyDeleteYou are one self-righteous piece of shit. You come on to this entertaining blog in order to disrupt the peace of others. I deal with assholes like you on a daily basis. Your true nature comes forth by your words:
1. “HWA lived like a king and died in fabulous luxury, and you can't touch him in any way....
2. Ergo, all of your weakling jibes at HWA miss the mark entirely.
3. Banned by HWA's writhing frustration over this fact is palpable.
4. *head shaking*
5. Later, haters “
1. “HWA lived like a king and died in fabulous luxury, and you can't touch him in any way....”Yes, Herbie got away with the ripoff of good and decent people who had/have a love for all thing's good.
The truth is, Armstrong was a man utterly without honor, without principles, without a shred of genuine decency or patriotism. He was the ultimate exterminator of religious life for thousands, and the grand compelling creator of a vast army of atheists.
2. You call our opinions “weaklings jibes” and that we missed the mark entirely, yet you give no answer as what mark you speak of.
3. “Banned by HWA's writhing frustration over this fact is palpable.” Your assault on the owner of this blog is without merit. The observations of the owner are from first hand experience. Your experience is what? A brat in the Armstrong cult? Was/is your father a minister? You sound as one of the “elite.”
4. *head shaking* as if you know something we don't. This is your superiority complex (narcissism ) showing through your facade as contempt and ridicule for others.
5. “Later, haters.” Haters is a title that is used in a negative light, kind of like the “N” word is to most persons of color. Again, you use this as a way of expressing your superiority over others.
6. I personally believe that you cling to any argument or principle, however oligophrenic or pudibund, that appears to support your obiter dicta. You Armstrong lovers, for the children of your cults you offer rape, incest, verbal abuse, physical abuse, and a number of other horrors as the fruit of affiliation.
Your expostulations are popular among the worst types of wanton creatures there are, but that doesn't mean the rest of us have to accept them. The expedition into this blog by a superstitious bottom-feeder, that attempts to deceive us with his distasteful screeds is not appreciated. As it stands, you do not tolerate any view that differs from your own. Rather, you discredit and discard those people who contradict your worldview along with the ideas that they represent. Maybe a dybbuk has taken up residence inside your head.
"It is exactly what every single athy says when his nihilistic faith is put to the test."
ReplyDeleteFaith? It doesn't take any faith to reject the imaginary. Tell me, does your own raging atheism (for you do not believe in leprechauns or the thousands of other gods) take faith? Does it take faith on your part to reject the existence of Zeus?
"Theists are puff-the-magic-dragon, fairies chasers,"
Well, what else to call a person who believes, in the absence of proof, in the existence of imaginary beings?
"while admitted baboon descendants are noble savages who "mysteriously," as in 'magical mysteries,' are very moral wunderkins."
It doesn't take magic for a rational human being to formulate a moral code. Only humans who have been ingrained with the idea that morality can only come through imaginary beings can't conceive of kindness on their own. To them, the only reason one should not steal is because their god said it was wrong. That isn't morality. It's pretending to be moral at the point of a gun. It's inherently immoral.
"Remember that baboons also "love their spouses, families, and children," but that is not due to ethics or morality."
So your love for your family is due to animal instinct? Shouldn't surprise me coming from someone who, without a bible to tell him how to be nice, has no sense of right and wrong.
"Since you don't understand 'god,' "
Where do you get your information about god? I'll bet you and I use the same source- and so you know just as much as I do about your god.
"...and you retain no proof of his existence,"
What proofs?? Where? Please, enlighten me.
"and since you don't know for sure if he exists, the most honest thing a reasonable person could say is, "I don't know, I'm agnostic. But I choose not to believe""All atheists who say 'there is no god,' are liars on the surface of it, because NONE of them knows FOR CERTAIN if there is a 'creator' of this unfathomable universe."
I am sure there is no god with the same certainty that there are no leprechauns- yes, both may exist, but so far, not one shred of evidence exists.
'It is their faith, their belief only."
Like your "faith" and "belief" that there are no leprechauns? That Allah does not exist? You don't know for sure, do you? Any reasonable person would admit that you don't know for sure, and claim agnosticism. For you aren't CERTAIN that Allah and leprechauns do not exist.
"I believe that there IS a creator, there was never a time that I didn't believe this,"
That's swell. You believe. Just like Muslims and Hindus. You all believe but have no evidence, yet you mock people who don't believe due to the same lack of evidence.
"...and a life full of experiences has confirmed this personal philosophy, it is my faith."
Oh yeah? LIke what? What experiences?
" It is not my opium, crutch, or any other of the derogatory and predictable slurs which most noble atheists baboons sling at believers."
It's certainly a delusion.
"I am happy, my family is happy. "
Of course. Why would it be otherwise?
"HWA didn't do anything at all to hurt me and I learned so much from the WCG/COG experience."
Good for you. What exactly did you learn from the experience?
"Chew on that wad for a while, grandpa."
Yeah. You certainly took me to task, didn't you?
Paul Ray
Ron Paul,
ReplyDeleteI'm laughing so hard from your response. You virtually paraphrased the typical second-level Athy responses to my points, you must know the denials all by heart by now....wheeewwww..
Your mistaken premise is that you know everything that there is to know and that you couldn't possibly be wrong. Therefore, there is no 'god.'
You also think that you only believe what you can see or what you can prove. Therefore, there is no 'god.'
Have you ever seen the planet Pluto? Did you witness Napoleon's defeat at Waterloo? Do you have hard evidence that humans descended from primates (for example any fossil samples of an intermediary half monkey-half man)? Nevertheless, you BELIEVE these things even though you have no direct personal empirical evidence. In fact, 99% of what you believe is just theory and trust (ergo, faith).
PRIDE is the undoing of every man, whether believer or infidel. Your actual sum of knowledge when combined with mine and every other person is infinitesimally tiny compared to the aggregate. How could anyone like us ever say anything for sure?
That is why I confess that I have faith. But you profess to "know."
Let's see how you do on this round....
"I'm laughing so hard from your response. You virtually paraphrased the typical second-level Athy responses to my points..."
ReplyDeleteThat may be so, but I notice that you didn't really address some of the points I brought up, such as:
1. Since you label my lack of belief as "faith," does your own disbelief in Allah and leprechauns require faith? If not, then why?
2. You mention there are proofs of god's existence- what are they?
3. Your personal experiences that support your belief that the god of the bible exists- what are they?
"Your mistaken premise is that you know everything that there is to know and that you couldn't possibly be wrong. Therefore, there is no 'god.'"
And that in itself is an erroneous assumption. I have never, nor will I ever (nor any atheist or scientist), claim or even think that I know everything there is to know. I have never, nor will I ever, claim or think that I can't be wrong.
Again, you are ignoring my words and constructing your own explanation as to why I do not believe in your god. You do this to ease your own conscience; if you can attribute my lack of belief to childish anger, or blind arrogance, then you no longer have to consider that I might have a valid reason; you can dismiss me without having to deal with the implications.
Again, the reason I stopped believing in god was due to the total lack of evidence. Nothing else- and if evidence is presented, then I will have no choice but to accept it. Unlike religious believers, whose belief is not based on evidence, but wishful thinking and a desire to believe- no amount of evidence, or lack thereof, can change belief.
"Have you ever seen the planet Pluto?"
No, but there is credible evidence that it exists- just like zebras and Japan. Have you ever seen your god?
"Did you witness Napoleon's defeat at Waterloo?"
No, but there is credible evidence that it occurred; a multitude of accounts, mostly eyewitnesses (unlike the most the gospel accounts). Also, we know that Napoleon did indeed exist, unlike Jesus.
"Do you have hard evidence that humans descended from primates (for example any fossil samples of an intermediary half monkey-half man)? "
Yes, there is, though there is no such thing as a half-monkey/half-man. But the fossil record is there- you can even find them if you know how to use google. Hint: "human evolution."
"Nevertheless, you BELIEVE these things even though you have no direct personal empirical evidence. In fact, 99% of what you believe is just theory and trust (ergo, faith)."
We don't have "to be there" to know something occurred, for we have "evidence." The evidence that Napoleon was defeated at Waterloo is overwhelming. Faith is not necessary in the face of evidence.
"That is why I confess that I have faith. But you profess to "know.""
So you aren't sure that Napoleon was defeated at Waterloo? You only have "faith" that he was? Does your belief in atoms also rest on faith? What an unstable worldview you have. No wonder you believe in things for which you have no evidence for.
Hey, I have an apparatus that will turn lint into gold- would you like to purchase it? I know you won't demand any evidence that it works, you'll just rely on your faith, since faith is good enough for you to believe, in the absence of evidence, that a magic being created the entire universe with his magic.
"Let's see how you do on this round...."
Probably just as badly as before. Your skill of logic and persuasion leave me in the dust, so to speak. Once again, you've taken me to task.
Paul Ray