This may interest some here. I have not read through most of it. Mainstream Christianity has been going through a gradual decline over the last several years. Evangelicals are the latest taking a hit. People are tired of the hypocrisy, bigotry, legalism and other things they see wrong and are jumping ship.
While Swagerty claims to have written this geared towards all churches who are suffering from this decline, I have to wonder if the main reason for this paper was the continuing decline of the GCI/WCG membership.
It was thought for many years that the church would grow dramatically after the dust had settled after the changes. People would be in awe of us and want to join. It hasn't happened. A few years ago GCI/WCG was closing down a church a week. What membership it has now, is made up of current and former members who may be returning. New ones, with no connection to Armstrongism, are few in number.
I don't care to weed through his thesis, but some may.
Mike Swagerty: Church Growth in America: Whose Responsibility Is It?
The prophecy that "knowledge shall be increased," should have gone on to say, "and because of this, church attendance shall shrink."
ReplyDeleteIt used to take all day in a library doing research, if the topics desired were even there, on religion, its history, origin and meaning. Now you can find the information needed times a hundred in 20 minutes.
A teen in church can check out the reality of what the minister is saying or the story he is telling and have different perspectives in hand before he ever gets done telling the story.
Had I had the Internet as a teen, I would have found the information I would have wanted and trusted and never would have gone on to be a minister in any church or denomination, much less where I did.
The average sincere and infor smart teen today is probably more informed than his baptist fundy pastor. You see, the teen is free to look and is not set on foregone conclusions. The minister is stuck with preserving the eroding and defending the indefensible at times and cannot accept any new updates unless everyone else in his care or over him does, which will never happen.
Sometimes is chuckle while quiet in a dark room doing good therapeutic massage knowing that somewhere on earth, so kid is probably sitting with his pastor asking for answers to "Questions Your Pastor Will Hate." on the many contradictions and such in the Bible. Makes me feel that I am still contributing to the cause and helping some to think more critically and clearly on that which I used to notice but blow off and act as if I did not see what , in fact, I did.
A local Methodist church has a budget of $600K with 90% going for salaries, apportionment, benefits, and building. Only 4% going to pay for actual "ministries." What a waste. The building is beautiful but empty most of the week. All this money for a shrinking number of aging professing Christians to hear a 20 minute "angel food cake" sermon, sing a few old songs and say a prayer. Younger people don't have time for this. The church is in desperate need of a "Second Reformation."
ReplyDeleteThe reason for decline in church attendance is...once a douche-bag, always a douche-bag ! I don't care if you changed your whole "denomination" from one truth to another. If the ministry is a bunch of holier than thou scum bags, who don't ever lift a finger to help their congregants in their sprititual, emotional and physical needs, and act like we the people owe them something for their great wonderousness, people wear out and tire of that crap.
ReplyDeleteIn most churches, its all about the ministers. The congregation exists to swirl around them. Give me a break. The ministry's job is to feed and take care of us, a notion they never seemed to understand. Its a lucky person that finds a congregation that has that type of minister which is probably <1% of all ministers in existence today.
Mike Swagerty baptized both my parents. I sat there as a little kid listening to all the WCG claptrap, now he is espousing all the evangelical claptrap. All for a paycheck. How about being like the rest of us Mikey, get a real job in the real world! These dopes would shrivel up and die the first time they got screamed at by a boss looking for a deadline to be met and producing any real fruit of a product or service.
I rue the day my father first heard a World Tomorrow broadcast. This destructive cult ruined so many lives just to flippantly say oh it was all a mistake, lets just live like everyone else in mainstream christianity, it was all for nothing, but just keep sending in the money.
Arrrrrgggghhh.
Just seeing this blog encourages me tremendously. The internet is the greatest boon to ever come along.
ReplyDeleteWhen I was stuck out there on that North Dakota ranch, there were literally no resources at my command to check into the propaganda, like British Israelism. That wouldn't be true today.
All of us need to keep blogging and doing whatever else we can do to thwart the attempts of these deceivers to corrupt people's minds with their nonsense. P. Z. Myers does a good job on Pharyngula in thwarting the creationist idiots.
I know, not every kid is going to go to the trouble of checking up, but with search words leading them to material they wouldn't normally find, some of them will get the message and pass it on to their friends. No wonder these deceivers are so quick to denounce surfing the internet. It's their nightmare come true.
Spend lots of time on those key words, my blogging buddies! Look on them as a swift kick the behind to Merry Death, Pack, etc.
Interesting and open piece by Swagerty. Give him points for his sincerity.
ReplyDeletePretty shocking stats he shares on Page 8: In 1989, WCG attendance in the United States was 87,000. As of October 31, 2011, GCI attendance in the United States was 7,832. That's nine percent of what it was 22 years earlier. In the congregation he pastors in Sacramento, attendance has declined from 500 in 1994 (right before the doctrinal shift) to 65 today.
"I suppose the jury is still out on our future," he writes. Well, yes.
I sat here and watch my last congregation go from 450 to 12 in 3 years. Of the 12 left, 3 wanted to be the minister, 6 listened and the other 3 had to clean up.
ReplyDeleteM.T.PewsenHalls
Religions in the modern world are predicated upon the belief that the ancients had access to knowledge and wisdom that has otherwise been lost today. "As knowledge increases," that belief is being increasingly challenged.
ReplyDeleteChurches are closing their doors because the imaginary service they have always provided is becoming more and more obvious to be nothing more than that: an imaginary service.
When it comes to helping people live their lives better in the here and now, and get over their baggage, psychology and self-help, as useless as it often is, is still better than the solutions doled out by ministers and preachers, who continue to trust in the ancients.
Although what happens after you die is an interesting question, today's youth are in a position to realize that nobody knows the real answer, and syrupy and sanctimonious church people are just pretending they do.
With the march of time and progress, it becomes increasingly obvious to each new generation that Christianity is a fraud. It purports to be that which it is not: it has no real answers and provides no real help.
Why belong to any church? All the benefits of belonging to an organized religion can be obtained by simply having a personal relationship with God, and spending time with close friends outside of any formal church services. There is no need for "church".
ReplyDeleteOne WCG congregation went from about 335 people down to about 20 people as a GCI congregation. The GCI is not growing, nor should it.
ReplyDeleteSome of the hirelings who helped wreck the WCG then went to the UCG to get a paycheck. Hopefully they will have similar luck shrinking that crooked cult too. They have already caused a major split in 2010. The UCG really does seem to have adopted the idea of supporting sin and evil to show "love." They might find that the old WCG/GCI perverts and predators waiting in the UCG to prey on any newcomers are not a major drawing card.
I hear you all loud and clear and am with you all the way!
ReplyDeleteI agree with you totally DC when you said: "Had I had the Internet as a teen, I would have found the information I would have wanted and trusted and never would have gone on to be a minister in any church or denomination, much less where I did." I think to myself I wish I could get back the 20 years I wasted believing lies! But, I guess as the saying goes, "Give me a child and I'll have him for life!" I was just too naive and stupid to have known any better. And like yourself I probably would've learned a trade and I'd never have gotten mixed up with any so-called "church" period!
And Mish-Mash you're completely correct in what you wrote: "In most churches, its all about the ministers. The congregation exists to swirl around them. Give me a break. The ministry's job is to feed and take care of us, a notion they never seemed to understand." The sad fact is that's how it is in Western religion and government at the moment. Look at the the US with the mud-slinging election campaigns or Australia with the Labor leadership showdown. Look at the acrimonious splintering, financial corruption and ongoing allegations of psychological and sexual abuse within Christianity besides the churches "of God."
Like the anonymous comment: "The church is in desperate need of a 'Second Reformation.'" Is it ever?! I think it's nothing more than a subtle form of legalized theft for politicians to be paid from the public payroll. But, it's not suprising since "Christ's" ministers illegally claim the same in "tithes" from their dumb flock. They should be forced to compete for a job like the average "Joe Blow" they're supposed to represent thus setting an example like Paul did rather than "frame mischief for a law" and allow foreign nations like China and India to steal our jobs and future wealth from under us or misappropriate God's handouts meant for the jobless and homeless for themselves all under the guise of "preaching the gospel"? Some gospel, huh?!
When will "We the People" wake up and hold them to account for their treason? Is it any wonder they're losing respect and seats by the droves?
If Joey Jr had any integrity, he and his cadre of yes-men would have seen their salaries shrink accordingly.
ReplyDeleteHowever, he has no integrity.
Norm
Anonymous 5:08, can you share any details about how "The UCG really does seem to have adopted the idea of supporting sin and evil to show 'love'"?
ReplyDeleteI would like to find out more about what moral or theological issues the members who formed COGWA objected to.
"If Joey Jr had any integrity, he and his cadre of yes-men would have seen their salaries shrink accordingly."
ReplyDeleteI think Joey would have been pleased as punch if everyone had left. He'd be left standing there all alone holding the moneybags. In essence, that is almost what did happen.