A former PCG member posted a comment on the following post dated January 7, 20120:
Gerald Flurry Declares Fast Because of Exodus of Members
- The REAL PURPOSE of the fast was to make the PCG members feel GUILTY
about not honoring their pledges, (that Gerald Flurry MADE them pledge
in the first place),they made to the Auditorium building fund. THIS was
the TRUE reason for the fast. I know this because I was IN the PCG. I
was recently DISFELLOWSHIPPED by BRIAN DAVIS, for trying to defend
myself after he and his brother-in-law, (Andrew Hessong), called me up
trying to make me feel guilty and ACCUSING ME of ACCUSING PEOPLE! The
REAL REASON FOR THE DISFELLOWSHIP: I am a single mom struggling to raise
my son by myself, AND CAN'T HELP SUPPORT THE MINISTERS,THEIR WIVES, AND
THEIR CHILDREN, AND EVERYONE ELSE AT "HEADQUARTERS". Brian Davis told
me to LEAVE my husband in 2004. I did. This caused all kinds of problems
for me and the PCG. The PCG ended up having to hire TWO ATTORNEYS for
the church and myself. Then more recently I was told by Brian Davis'
brother-in-law,(Andrew Hessong), to contact the Office of Attorney
General to take my EX to court. My Ex was already paying me me child
support on his own. When I took these ministers advice, he stopped
giving me support.So between all this BAD ADVICE FROM PCG MINISTERS, I
also get THROWN OUT OF THE PCG. IT'S ALL ABOUT MONEY. THAT'S THE TRUTH!!
THE END!!! March 24, 2012 9:26 PM
Update:
- P.S.- This comment goes along with the last one I left-(me and my 13
year old son getting disfellowshipped by Brian Davis with his accomplice
brother-in-law Andrew Hessong of the Philadelphia Church of God): I
forgot to mention that Brian Davis tried to SECRETLY DISFELLOWSHIP ME in
February 2006. He and a Mr. Reese Brown called me up, (SURPRISE
ATTACK), after I OBEYED MR. BRIAN DAVIS, and had left my husband. I was
in Washington State at this time. The conversation went like this:
"Hello B...this is Brian Davis. I've got Mr. Reese Brown on the line
also. ...Did you tell Mr. Brown you did NOT try to get an attorney
before you left your husband?" Then I replied: "I told Mr. Reese Brown
that I DID try to get an attorney before I left my husband, but the
attorney told me that I COULD NOT FILE until we had settled our
bankruptcy"...(later I found out she was only telling a half
truth)...Then Brian Davis told me, "Well, B...I've prayed about this,
and I've come to the conclusion, YOUR LYING, AND YOUR DISFELLOWSHIPPED,
AND DON"T TELL ANYONE WE HAD THIS CONVERSATION!"
Very soon after this conversation, I got a call from the church's attorney, and he told me..."No, B...your not disfellowshipped. Mr. Flurry and others were sitting at the table about to disfellowship you, when Mr. Brown confessed to his part in this".
BUT Brian Davis HAS NEVER CONFESSED! He later told me, "B...I was just trying to get you MENTALLY PREPARED". He has been trying to find ways to get rid of me ever since,(THE BIG COVER-UP) because the church had to hire an attorney to defend the church's doctrines, so I was included. They paid for my divorce. Brian Davis really secretly hates me for this. My divorce went terrible. I now can pretty much assume it was because BRIAN DAVIS was slandering me to the attorney. I always wondered why the attorney RARELY would come to the phone or call me back when I had a question. Brian Davis had made other attempts to discourage me, hoping I would disappear and quit the church, BECAUSE OF THE MESS HE CAUSED. He loves to PROVOKE. This way he can tell everyone, "She talked bad to me". That's one of his favorite sayings. He ACCUSES others of what he does. Well, he finally achieved his goal on February 22, 2012... I'M OUT!...I never found that "open door".March 26, 2012 8:43 AM
Update (3/27/12)
AND ANOTHER THING...About that "open door" policy? I've already written to Mr. Gerald Flurry. I didn't get a response. I kept hearing "horror stories" about other women getting disfellowshipped and still after YEARS, not being able to "GET BACK IN".
Now I ask you...IS THAT BIBLICAL? According to "THE CHURCH". Christ calls you into the Church...Where in the Bible does Christ say his ministers are suppose to use, abuse, slander, humiliate, intimidate,twist scripture, THROW OUT, all those innocent little "babes" in Christ, and REFUSE to have anything to do with them again?
Christ says in Luke 17:2...It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he be cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.
Did I forget to mention...Brian Davis also SUSPENDED me while I was going through my divorce. I innocently sent him an e mail I had sent to my attorney. You see, the church was ready to stop paying the attorney/attorneys, after they cleared themselves,so everyone, (the attorney, Brian Davis, my local minister), were pressuring me to agree to pay my ex, child support, for my son, so the church could "wrap up this whole frivolous mess" My local minister told me several times..."B...The church isn't paying for your divorce anymore!"...B...The church isn't paying for your divorce anymore!" The funny thing is...I DIDN'T CAUSE THIS MESS AND I CERTAINLY DIDN'T ASK FOR THE CHURCH TO PAY FOR MY DIVORCE!!BRIAN DAVIS CAUSED ME AND MY KIDS TO GO THROUGH HELL!!...And that's what it was...My daughter ended up in Rusk State Hospital...suffering from post stress disorder...after what her "so called father" did to her...(which no one still wants to believe)...On one of my long journeys to visit her, while I was driving down the highway, low and behold, guess who called me? None other than BRIAN DAVIS. My mother was in the car with me, and since I was AFRAID OF WHAT BRIAN DAVIS WAS ABOUT TO SAY, and did not want my mother to hear the conversation, (as I was STILL trying to protect the church's reputation), I pulled my car over and got out,...(my hair blowing all over the place in my mouth, etc.)...This "so called" minister of God, could care less what I was going through...(and he dared not even ask)...All I remember about that UNEXPECTED CALL FROM BRIAN DAVIS, were these words..."B...You've made A LOT of mistakes in your life!"...What a "CHEERY" thing to say to me. I wanted to STRANGLE HIM by that time. That's a normal response, considering the circumstances. But I thought that he was "GOD'S MINISTER", and somehow MAYBE he was right... WRONG!!!...He was actually talking about HIMSELF...and still didn't know it. I've learned, people usually ACCUSE people of doing what THEY are guilty of. The purpose of the call was to DISCOURAGE ME and maybe I would GIVE UP and LEAVE THE CHURCH, so they wouldn't have to continue paying for my divorce and Brian Davis could say..."See...told you...she wasn't converted after all!"...BRIAN DAVIS' BIG COVER UP PLAN!! March 27, 2012 9:04 AM
Back to the e mail I sent to "MR. BRIAN DAVIS"... Because my divorce was going so terrible and everyone was pressuring me to "just agree" to pay my ex child support to wrap things up...I sent this e mail to my attorney which basically said...No, I'm not listening to anyone...I'm THINKING FOR MYSELF THIS TIME, (using my critical thinking skills)...I am NOT going to sign the divorce papers and agree to pay my ex husband child support. After all...I left him because he was living and working in California, and he was running around with other women, and actually had a woman living with him...THIS IS WHY I TOOK MY SON AND LEFT IN THE FIRST PLACE!
I forwarded this e mail to Brian Davis ASSUMING he would be on my side...OH, NO,.. ANOTHER "MISTAKE IN MY LIFE"...Brian Davis took that one line..."I'm not listening to anyone"...and suspended me. I was told to read "God's Family Government", and an "anger management" paper, and fast and pray, etc. and call him back. It took months for him to accept that MY attitude was right, and FINALLY let me come back "in the church". He also told me to call my attorney and apologize TO HIM! I was so stupid,...I Did...I wonder what other "HOOPS" Brian Davis could have gotten me to jump through? The day I was FORMALLY ACCEPTED back into "the church", I could tell by my local minister's response...I don't believe he wanted me to come back...He walked off as Brian Davis was reluctantly welcoming me back. Could that ministers actions have been caused by BRIAN DAVIS SLANDERING ME!! Of course...I know this because after the local minister walked away...Brian Davis said to me, (while glancing back and forth between looking at his cell phone and the local minister)..."B...Mr. so and so is a fine minister...BUT...from now own, if you have something to talk about, don't talk to him...call me" WHAT'S UP WITH THAT I ASKED...Even though I put it all together later and figured it out. Now If I would have followed Brian Davis' ORDERS, and never again talked to my local minister and just called up Brian Davis...THAT probably would have turned into a MAJOR FIASCO TOO!!...It's all crazy... March 27, 2012 9:06 AM
Update March 28
- STILL ABOUT BRIAN DAVIS...Let me clarify some things. The reason I'M remaining anonymous is because I'm trying to expose Brian Davis. Brian Davis knows who I am. That's all that matters. Brian Davis would consider this as being a coward. NO, HE'S THE COWARD PICKING ON WOMEN IN THE CHURCH AND THROWING THEM OUT!! HE DISFELLOWSHIPPED ME THIS TIME BECAUSE I WOULDN'T OBEY HIM AND SHUT-UP WHEN I WAS JUST TRYING TO DEFEND MYSELF AND EXPOSE HIM TO THE OTHERS ON THE PHONE LINE AND OTHERS SECRETLY LISTENING TO THE PHONE CONVERSATION AT "HEADQUARTERS" THE LAST TIME HE DISFELLOWSHIPPED ME, (FEBRUARY 2010)...And besides that...I don't know if THIS DISFELLOWSHIP IS LEGITIMATE OR NOT...Because as I wrote earlier...Brian Davis tried to SECRETLY DISFELLOWSHIP ME February 2006, after he had told me to leave my husband...but later DENIED ALL BLAME, saying, "B...I was just trying to get you MENTALLY PREPARED". He told me in our last phone conversation from "Headquarters", that..."B...you were confused and not in your right mind"...(oh, so I'm just a LUNATIC, (as I believe that's the way this SOCIOPATH thinks about all women)...So...He's telling me I didn't hear him say what I thought I heard him say??...What a LIAR! telling me,..."And don't tell anyone we had this conversation!"...yea, right!...THAT'S THE FIRST THING I TOLD THE CHURCH'S ATTORNEY WHEN HE HAD TO CALL ME BACK AND HIRE ATTORNEY'S FOR THE PCG AND ME!...NEXT SUBJECT...March 28, 2012, 7:46 AM
- P.S.- This comment goes along with the last one I left-(me and my 13
year old son getting disfellowshipped by Brian Davis with his accomplice
brother-in-law Andrew Hessong of the Philadelphia Church of God): I
forgot to mention that Brian Davis tried to SECRETLY DISFELLOWSHIP ME in
February 2006. He and a Mr. Reese Brown called me up, (SURPRISE
ATTACK), after I OBEYED MR. BRIAN DAVIS, and had left my husband. I was
in Washington State at this time. The conversation went like this:
"Hello B...this is Brian Davis. I've got Mr. Reese Brown on the line
also. ...Did you tell Mr. Brown you did NOT try to get an attorney
before you left your husband?" Then I replied: "I told Mr. Reese Brown
that I DID try to get an attorney before I left my husband, but the
attorney told me that I COULD NOT FILE until we had settled our
bankruptcy"...(later I found out she was only telling a half
truth)...Then Brian Davis told me, "Well, B...I've prayed about this,
and I've come to the conclusion, YOUR LYING, AND YOUR DISFELLOWSHIPPED,
AND DON"T TELL ANYONE WE HAD THIS CONVERSATION!"
The Plain Truth is that HWA and his legacy of splinters were all about money - a business brand of fear religion all about money and control over peoples' minds and lives. That is the Plain Truth!
ReplyDeleteRichard
To the anonymous person who posted the comment...
ReplyDeleteI don't know what the situation with your husband was, but now that you are out of the PCG, maybe consider reconciling. This is what any decent church would have had you do. Now if it was a bad situation with abuse, etc, then obviously don't. But if they told you to split because he wasn't in the church then that's a form of abuse from PCG.
I would take PCG to court for bad advice.
"I would take PCG to court for bad advice."
ReplyDeleteIts called undue influence, and yes you can win in a court.
Brian Davis. Wayne Turgeon. Stephen Flurry. HAHAHAHAHAHA. Those who watched them goose-step their way from AC in Big Sandy through the ranks in the PCG can only be amused. The principles of careful academic research, let alone biblical hermeneutics, are nowhere to be found along their trail of tears. Follow them, and you're gonna get astonishingly bad results.
ReplyDeleteYeah I remember when the changes came through the WCG in the 1990s that a work colleague who'd recently left the WCG said, "It's a cult and all they want is money!" I didn't believe it then, but I do now! These ministers' "tithes and offerings" should really be going to support the poor and needy in our society--people like this woman--who are a single-parent working two or three jobs to bring up their kids or those who can't even get a job to support their family or who can't pay the mortgage and their home is under threat of foreclosure by the banks or those already living out on the streets or those who can't even speak the language having immigrated to escape war and death in their own country and the best they can look forward to is to go on welfare benefits--if they're lucky?! These "Christian" ministers stand indicted by the very Book and God they profess to worship and follow!
ReplyDeleteGerald Flurry uses his Philadelphia Cult to break up marriages, extended families, and friendships. God's commandment to honor one's parents has been circumvented and discarded by the PCG. You have to understand that when Satan inspired Gerald Flurry to start the PCG, it was not to help strengthen extended families.
ReplyDeleteThe PCG has attracted a lot of sexually immoral people, including many who were wicked enough to divorce their mates for no good reason. God's commandment not to commit adultery has been circumvented and discarded by the PCG. You have to understand that when Satan inspired Gerald Flurry to start the PCG, it was not to help strengthen marriages.
The PCG has become one screwed up group of runt-worshipping idolaters and adulterers who dishonor their own parents. Rather than teaching people to obey God's commandments, the PCG is forcing them to break God's commandments.
PCG people think that they are the most faithful, loyal followers of HWA around. The truth is that they have forgotten much of what HWA taught and have been fooled into thinking that Gerald Flurry's recent wrong ideas came from HWA. In fact, HWA wrote an article called Should You Try to Convert Others?, in which he cautioned WCG members about how to behave around unconverted mates so that they would not end up divorced. You have to understand that when Satan inspired Gerald Flurry to start the PCG, it was not to faithfully carry on HWA's teachings, but rather to change them--for the worse.
When Gerald Flurry started the PCG, none of the WCG ministers went with him. They went elsewhere to get the paychecks that they were used to. They also did not want to follow a drunken nutcase like Gerald Flurry. The result was that Gerald Flurry set up various ushers, deacons, local elders, and assorted nobodies who coveted power as "ministers" in the PCG. These fake PCG "ministers" have been getting their thrills by misusing and abusing the PCG members for their own perverse pleasure.
PCG people have been deceived into fearing that God will be angry with them and reject them if they leave the PCG. They don't dare to read anything that Gerald Flurry does not approve of. Also, many of them are not smart enough to look into matters and "prove all things." The truth is that Gerald Flurry is a false prophet, a false christ, and now (after twenty years) a false apostle too. PCG people need to understand that God is angry with Gerald Flurry and has rejected him as an impostor.
Oh, contraire, Anonymous. PCG people haven't "forgotten much of what HWA taught," at all. They've simply expanded on it.
ReplyDeleteThis is what happens when a system is totally, arbitrarily made up by one individual. HWA made up rules as he went along. Then he changed them. Then he reinstituted them. He applied some rules to certain people, and other rules to other people. He did this all the time, year after year, decade after decade.
I mean, why aren't there portraits of Herbert and Romona hanging in all the offshoots' offices, too? Well, let's not talk about THAT, because, you know, he was old, and she deceived him, and....
Baloney. He knew exactly what he was doing, and it backfired on him, big time.
Yet, somehow, some people still cling to the idea that "God's truth" was revealed and/or restored through that one man.
The pride that got in HWA's way as he circled the wagons and created an organization over which he had total control is the same pride that renders his adherents unable, even unwilling, to examine things more closely -- or, if they have, to admit to the facts that stare them plainly in the face. So they blithely go on and on and on, content to even invoke his proclamations with a "Mr. Armstrong always said," and so on, and so forth, blah, blah, blah.
The outrageousness of the Flurrys, Packs, et al, stems from that very mindset. People who should be running for cover from their aberrant teachings are instead doubting their own instincts and acquiescing to oddball demands, unsubstantiated doctrines and overreaching proclamations.
Frighteningly ridiculous stuff, really.
A simple definition of heresy is "adding to the teachings of the Bible". Even Josephus warned about what he called "innovations", or "making innovations".
ReplyDeleteWhen examining the teachings and statements of especially PCG, you really have to be up on your Orwell, and know about doublespeak, the thought police, the 30 minute hate, and other key elements. That church especially has a way of turning satanic behavior inside out and misusing scripture to make it appear Christian. This is yet one more set of examples! (as if we needed more)
BB
Flurry's PCG is just another chip off of the old block, as is GCI, LCG, RCG, UCG, COGWA, and all the other COGs, Deceptive, controlling, greedy, money lusting "ministers"...everyone of them!
ReplyDeleteThis item reinforces my suspicion that Gerald Flurry may not even see most of the mail that people send addressed to him.
ReplyDeleteI have a wealthy friend who is employed by one of the other splinter cults. He has sent Gerald Flurry perhaps a half-dozen letters since meeting him at a "Personal Appearance Campaign" several years ago. My friend tells me that Flurry said it was OK to write to him to continue the conversation they had begun at the Personal Appearance Campaign. My friend is disenchanted with his splinter cult, and he doesn't have any interest in working for PCG, but he wants at least some positive feedback from Flurry before making such a big move.
I would think Flurry would jump at the opportunity to hook a "big fish" from another splinter, especially one who would be a big tither and doesn't want a PCG job.
Yet Flurry hasn't even once responded to my friend's letters. This makes me suspect that somebody else is opening Flurry's mail, and that the somebody is jealous at the idea of "bigshots" from other groups coming to PCG.
If this is how even a potential big-tither is treated by PCG, it is no wonder that a divorced woman who had a run-in with a vain and ignorant ministurd would be treated worse.
Steve said...
ReplyDelete[Flurry's PCG is just another chip off of the old block, as is GCI, LCG, RCG, UCG, COGWA, and all the other COGs, Deceptive, controlling, greedy, money lusting "ministers"...everyone of them.]
Excellent comments, and to think that Ezekiel was way ahead of us when he described what some of God's shepherds/ministers would be someday be acting like (as follows):
Ezekiel 34:2 "...Thus saith the Lord GOD unto the shepherds; Woe be to the shepherds of Israel that do FEED themSELVES! should not the shepherds feed the flocks?
3 Ye eat the fat, and ye clothe you with the wool, ye kill them that are fed: but ye feed NOT the flock.
4 The diseased have ye not strengthened, neither have ye healed that which was sick, neither have ye bound up that which was broken, neither have ye brought again that which was driven away, neither have ye sought that which was lost; but with force and with cruelty have ye ruled them.
It's obvious that their concern to take care of $SELF$ is very evident for all to see, after all, that is all part of the fruits they bear for all to see...
Oh, and that pride that some mention? That too is a fruit and there is a cause for that pride we see displayed and God inspired Job to tell us all about it. Pride is a fruit of the very king they serve:
"He beholdeth all high things: he is a king over all the children of pride." Job 41:34
John
Cult leaders get their victims/suckers to hand over their money so that the cult leaders can live in mansions right now. The victims/suckers go along with this in the vain hope that they will get a mansion later on, maybe in some next life.
ReplyDeleteIf the cult leaders--who make up nothing but lies continually--happen to be wrong about everything, well, at least they still get their mansions right now. Their victims/suckers don't do quite so well. Ok, they don't do well at all.
WCG people once knew that they were supposed to submit to God and obey Him and His good laws for the overall good of everyone. Over time, something changed. For the worse.
ReplyDeleteSome of these same people, now trapped in the PCG, have totally forgotten about God and His ways. They have been conditioned (brainwashed) into believing (and fearing) that to get into the Place of Safety, or into the kingdom of God, they must demonstrate their ability to obey and tolerate the absolutely godless, degenerate perverts that drunken false prophets like Gerald Flurry set up as PCG ministers.
These perverts that Gerald Flurry set up as PCG ministers were simply some of the very worst sickos around back in the WCG. They desperately coveted power in the church, and not so they could do any good with it. Rather, they wanted to have power to satanically abuse other people for their own fiendish delight.
PCG leaders remind me of a newspaper article I read a number of years ago. Some religious kook had raped and murdered a young girl. His explanation for raping her and murdering her was that he was trying to protect her from the coming Great Tribulation. Despite his professed good intentions, it was obvious that he had raped her and murdered her for his own selfish and perverse reasons. PCG leaders have the exact same attitude and spirit behind them.
I’m baffled by some of the comments here.
ReplyDelete“…to think that Ezekiel was when ahead of us when he describe what some of God’s shepherds/ministers would…be acting like….” Huh? Are we saying Ezekiel was referring to the ministry of the WCG and its offshoots? Really?
“WCG people once knew that they were supposed to submit to God and obey Him and His good laws for the overall good of everyone.” Huh?
Why the clinging to all this law, and WCG-as-true-church, stuff? Move past it, folks. Break the chains. That’s largely what this site is all about.
Wow, the old notions remain ingrained more deeply than some seem to realize, or perhaps care to admit.
"(Updated 3/27/12) More UnChristian Richard
ReplyDeleteMarch 25, 2012 7:52 AM
their own instincts and acquiescing to March 26, 2012 1:47 PM
Assistant Deacon said..."...Wow, the old notions remain ingrained more deeply than some seem to realize, or perhaps care to admit."
MY COMMENT: Wow! I couldn't agree with you more. All the COGs are just cults, nothing more. There is not one Scripture that applies to them or their con artist leaders.Those of us here give them too much credit and too much publicity. Take Malm for instance. Why give him so much air time?
WOW - if you follow these threads after reading it a while you realize this is an amazing gossip page. So much of it is admitted speculation.
ReplyDeleteThis is worse than sitting in the local beauty parlor! If you keep reading this it will become more and more clear what kind of minds are writing all of this. It's crazy!
Anonymous, if you keep up with that party line mentality, you'll earn an Assistant Deacon armband very soon.
ReplyDeleteI wish COG members could realize that anything a minister says is just an opinion. Because of the Bible, people get used to "Paul says," "James says," "Peter says," and then thing that is the same as "Dave says," "Gerald says," "Ron says," etc. Ministers are Bible readers. They don't derive authority because they can quote or read. Giving yourself a title is plain bullshit. Dave Pack is no more an Apostle than I am. Ron Weinland is not the Witness of Revelation 11. He is just a person, sincere or otherwise, making it up as he goes and probably wrong.
ReplyDeleteCOG members need to get back into critical thinking instead of just being a follower or agreeer when they don't. Wake up folks. These are just men, with opinions that you can take or not depending.
I agree with Assistant Deacon.It seems like quite a few who comment here still cling to many of Herbie's old ideas. Just read some of the bullshit in past posts that some postulate. It IS amazing!
ReplyDeleteIf this poor victim of ministerial abuse happens to read here, I'd like to ease her burden by sharing with her that the "church" is not a corporate entity, such as PCG, LCG, UCG, or COGaWA! The church is Jesus Christ's sheep, who recognize His voice, in other words, sincere believers who have a relationship with Him. When a wolf in sheep's clothing disfellowships you, that does not break the personal relationship you have cultivated with Father God and Jesus Christ!
ReplyDeleteAlthough I know this has hurt you, being disfellowshipped from PCG is the modern day equivalent of Jewish Christians being put out of the temple by the Pharisees. Keep pursuing your relationship with God, and life will get much better!
BB
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteSo much of it is admitted speculation.
If you keep reading this it will become more and more clear what kind of minds are writing all of this. It's crazy!
Don't stay ignorant forever. If you can't learn from the experiences of the 10,000+ people who left the PCG or got kicked out of it, then go to the PCG yourself and learn the hard way.
The PCG really is crazy. You don't know this because you just guess and speculate about it rather than going and getting the facts. Other people much more serious and noble than yourself have learned the truth about the PCG.
Dennis is absolutely right! Freedom to think and critically analyze the claims people and organizations make is essential to avoid risking being baited and taken for a ride. We use such skills when we watch, listen or read corporate advertisements or public campaign speeches in the secular sphere, but such is actively discouraged, even outlawed, in religious circles for some naive and foolish reason. It's a sad indictment on our education system that fails abysmally in this regard thus setting us up to fall for any nonsense. And these modern-day Hophni's and Phinehas's lacking any shred of integrity or decency think nothing of assuming the very same office of Christ's own disciples when they show no sign whatsoever of God having chosen them (e.g. heal diseases, cast out demons, prophesy 100% accurately, speak in tongues, etc.) and besmirch it by giving credence to what amounts to nothing more than Armstrong's trite opinions or rabid speculations over Bible facts. It's a wonder so many continue to go along with the whole charade since if they were to hand over their money in any other situation to procure a product they'd be sure to do their homework beforehand, but when it comes to religion it's like they think they're supposed to just lie back, close their eyes and think of England.
ReplyDeleteKooks from a kook.
ReplyDelete[An harbinger of things to come.]
This reminds me of the abusive scumbag Christian mega-leaders Mark Driscoll and Todd Bently.
ReplyDeleteBut heck, at least Brian Davis doesn't "kick people's teeth in for Jesus" like Todd did at times!
Oh, wait. Maybe Brian Davis is just as abusive, but not so physical about it...
After all, it may be easier to get some dentures than it is to mend a torn-apart family.
Norm
I hate to be captain obvious here, but: who cares?
ReplyDeleteIt's rather obvious that this woman feels that she was unjustly tossed out of PCG. I wager that she'd still be sitting there right now otherwise.
I went through this same phase for months after my family was disfellowshipped by Gerald Flurry, and it took me 9 more years to finally leave armstrongism. This is her chance to break free of it all now. I hope she doesnt waste it.
To risk sounding like an even bigger douche, I think this woman is very fortunate. She's out of a doomsday cult that she might not have left on her own. Maybe she should be thanking those assholes for the favor they did for her? Complaining about them for days on end is borderline pathetic, in the same way I was a decade ago.
$.02
I've refrained from commenting on this so far because I figured I would just come off like an insensitive jerk, but now you guys have already said kinda what I was feeling.
ReplyDeleteI don't think she says anywhere whether she's first or second generation, and that's going to affect how easy or hard it is to leave, and I understand it can be very hard to leave your abusers, but she is infinitely better off without them.
Consider Davis and Hessong exposed as being on the negative end of what we around here think of as a profession, the (relatively) positive end of which, remains negative in absolute terms.
I know this woman's feelings are pulling her in all directions, but the sane thing to do is to RUN! You have your walking papers. Take them and go! Never go back to any of the harlots! Protect yourself. Protect your children. Change your phone number. You are finally FREE!
Rejection is God's Protection
ReplyDeletePCG's METHOD OF OPERATION
ReplyDeleteThe PCG initially collected the names and addresses of as many WCG members as it could find and sent them its PCG literature to try to ensnare them. The PCG claimed to be the true church holding fast to what they had been taught by HWA, while Joseph Tkach changed and wrecked the WCG.
However, once people were in the PCG, it just lied to them and abused them. The ongoing satanic abuse from the perverts that Gerald Flurry set up as ministers left the innocent people who had gone there perplexed and bewildered. Those who just wanted to support the truth of God ended up being ruled over harshly and unjustly by those who just wanted to do evil to others.
The satanic abuse of various forms in the PCG continues relentlessly until the victim is finally disfellowshipped for some ridiculous reason. They are then left believing that they must continue to tithe to the PCG and beg to try to get back into what they have been told is God's only true church and their ticket to the place of safety.
After unfairly getting kicked out of the PCG is when many incurably naive people finally begin to realize that it was all just a big fraud.
Having been forbidden by Gerald Flurry to read any other church's literature, or even to talk to family members in other splinter groups, the PCG members don't realize that Gerald has drastically changed the church's teachings away from what HWA had taught, just as much as Joseph Tkach did.
Gerald Flurry simply lies to people and takes their money, as well as wasting their time and energy trying to defend themselves from predators in the PCG. His methods have been wildly successful at destroying lives. Literally thousands of people have had many years of their lives wasted, and many millions of dollars scammed from them, and their familes and relationships wrecked.
@ Anon AKA Armstrongite apologist:
ReplyDeleteYou know, you could remove "PCG" from your entire post, substitute "WCG" and (excluding your fairy tale elements) still be right on the money.
"The PCG claimed to be the true church holding fast to what they had been taught by HWA"
The PCG was holding fast to what was taught by HWA. Ultimately, this was meaningless when you consider that the belief system they held fast to was essentially an elaborate fairy tale. I don't believe they deviated much from the HWA line until around 1998 with That Prophet. Even so, to this day, they are probably the closest thing resembling right wing, conservative, armstrongism as it was in the final days of HWA.
In 1991, there weren't hundreds of splinters as there are today. There was only one worthy of mention, the PCG. For all their faults, they caught onto the fact that Tkach was making changes and was lying about it. Most of the other groups did not form until the mid 90's, the largest of these, UCG was clearly a kneejerk reaction to the growing number of unhappy members, coupled with men who hungered for power, money, and had little chance of getting either from the Tkaches. Though I laugh at their beliefs today, I still admire the people who stood up against the lies in the early 90's. Deluded, zealots, devout fools clinging to their cult beliefs, yes, but at the very least, fools of conscience.
Of course, in hindsight, the Tkach changes and lies amounted to a positive thing as they inevitably drove thousands of people away from Armstrongism entirely. I only wish my family had been on team: Falling Away and not team Zealot
But going back to PCG:
"The ongoing satanic abuse from the perverts that Gerald Flurry set up as ministers"
Ridiculous. There is nothing "satanic" going on here. Remove Satan from your equation and you simply have greedy, power hungry men - at the top - doing what they can to maintain their power and income. Within the lower echelons, you have the younger ministers simply following their training. The men mentioned in this rant most likely think they're doing the right thing, throwing out the "bad apples" to save the rest of the bushel. This is equally absurd, but there is nothing supernatural at work here. Simply greed, coupled with ignorance and the type of zeal only a cult can produce.
Why spend the money to help her get a divorce if they're only going to toss her out? Simple: They believe that they're doing the right thing. They probably consider her "unequally yoked" or some such nonsense and are trying to free her up for a marriage to a good "man of the faith". They're morons to be sure, but I suspect that very, very few of them "just wanted to do evil to others."
"Gerald has drastically changed the church's teachings away from what HWA had taught, just as much as Joseph Tkach did"
Spoken like a true armstrongite apologist. In truth, PCG is not terribly different from the WCG of the 80's. More controlling environment? absolutely. More secretive? probably. I doubt they've disfellowshipped nearly as many people as Herbert and his goons did over the decades. They've modified MOA, probably other books. They insert a prophet here, a prediction there, but at the end of the day, they're the same cup of tea.
Of course, you probably don't want to admit it as that would cast a shadow over your dearest beliefs. In the end, no matter what splinter cult you select, you're still in a doomsday cult based on the lies of a conniving huckster long since dead.
Best of luck with all that!
I just got three words for everybody whose been abused by these money-hungry and power-hungry sobs whether physical, mental, sexual, financial, or whatever:
ReplyDeleteClass Action Lawsuit
Target them where it really hurts--their hip pocket!! That's the only way these sh--heads will learn!! And at least you'll help others be spared the pain of ever getting mixed up with these sickos and wackos!!
Like I said before it was censored--probably coz of the "colorful" language I used--but 3 simple words of advice to everybody whose been abused by these power- and money-hungry types be it physical, mental, financial, sexual or other form of abuse:
ReplyDeleteClass Action Lawsuit
Target them right where it hurts--in the hip-pocket! That's the only way they'll learn! And at least you'll help spare others years of pain getting mixed up with these messed up bunch of ACOG nitwits!
Does anyone know whether this was an interracial marriage? Flurry is absolutely notorious for breaking up such relationships, and with PCG's strong (but wrongheaded) beliefs in this regard, it is easy to see them paying for a divorce.
ReplyDeleteBB
Jace said...
ReplyDelete"Ridiculous....Within the lower echelons, you have the younger ministers simply following their training. The men mentioned in this rant most likely think they're doing the right thing, throwing out the "bad apples" to save the rest of the bushel. This is equally absurd, but there is nothing supernatural at work here. Simply greed, coupled with ignorance and the type of zeal only a cult can produce."
Jace,
You do not seem to know what goes on in the PCG. I do. There were old predators who DID go there to do evil to others. For sure, they deliberately lied and tried to pass off all their obviously, totally selfish and bad behavior as trying to "help" other people, but that was just outright lying. The way the old sex maniacs and sex perverts would quickly, openly fly into rages and go around slandering their targeted victims who did not go along with their plans sort of gave them away.
The power-hungry schemers that Gerald Flurry set up as "ministers" and local leaders in the PCG were also deliberately deceitful and dishonest and were there to prey on others. They were never in any way sincere at all. They were more deceitful, cunning, and evil than most could imagine.
THE ONLY ZEAL IN MOST PCG LEADERS AND MEMBERS WAS THEIR ZEAL TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE SITUATION WITH THE WCG AND PCG AND USE IT TO PREY ON UNSUSPECTING PEOPLE WHO GOT ENSNARED BY THE PCG.
The PCG and what is going on there is far worse than you realize. IT IS SATANIC.
Now, Jace, I realize that you will have your own opinions, but try not to stomp your feet, and throw one of your temper tantrums, and break out in swearing.
My opinion is that you are a fool. A fool who has no facts with which to base your blanket statements on, and a fool who is projecting your own ignorance and superstition onto me (the least deserving recipient for it!). But then again, you know this based on our last encounter, in which you also failed to make your case and ended up slinking away quietly. New year, perhaps, but you remain a moron still.
ReplyDelete(Protip: Typing in all caps and bold does not make you look any less idiotic.)
Jace said...
ReplyDelete"But then again, you know this based on our last encounter, in which you also failed to make your case and ended up slinking away quietly."
Correction
A reply was left last time, but it appears that NO2HWA did not publish it. He went for a while to requiring Blog owner approval for all comments, perhaps out of fear that you would fly into another one of your satanic fits and make the Blog appear to be full of comments by raging, low-class cussers.
I'll repeat it again, softened slightly:
................................
Jace said...
"Sincerely, Fuck off again."
Working for a female boss on the Sabbath sounds like a disaster.
To modify one of HWA's phrases, "You might be sincere, but you are still sincerely [messed] up."
................................
To continue, perhaps you are angry because I am speaking against the cult of your youth, which you would still be going to if you had not been kicked out of it. Also, perhaps in your case they really were throwing out a rotten apple, as you yourself suggested.
No doubt you won't like this, but for what it is worth, it appears that some people either follow a satanic fraud like Gerald Flurry and won't listen to any common sense whatsoever, or else they leave the PCG and get mad at God and won't listen to any common sense whatsoever. With some people, it is always one bad extreme or another.
Anonymous misogynist wrote:
ReplyDelete" it appears that NO2HWA did not publish it"
Why blame him, maybe Demons did it!
*satanic fit* you sir, are a jackass. */satanic fit*
Yes, it must have been grumpy old satan who did not post the comments. He gets blamed for most of Armstrongism's problems even though they create their own problems.
ReplyDeleteI don't know what Ben is talking about since I have not deleted anyone's posts for a while. Sometimes there may be posts that go automatically to the spam file, but I don't control that. I will post them if I find them there.
Our gracious host wrote:
ReplyDelete"He gets blamed for most of Armstrongism's problems even though they create their own problems."
What are you talking about? Armstrongites don't have any problems. They are the chosen of god, they have special knowledge, they are going to be plucked alive from the snapping jaws of certain tribulation, and they are generally speaking, well rounded members of society who shun sexism, racism, and homophobia. They're fantastic people!
Again? Satan or No2HWA! Please, for the love of Zeus, stop blocking Anonymous from commenting already!
ReplyDeleteI'm sure he's got something to say?
GERALD R. FLURRY'S PHILADELPHIA CHURCH OF FRAUD is one of the worst SATANIC FRAUDS in all of COG history.
ReplyDeleteEither BELIEVE IT or be scammed!!!
"Either BELIEVE IT or be scammed!!!"
ReplyDeleteLet's be honest Anon, you can not believe the satanic part and still be scammed. They're a bad lot, you simply can't prove them to be "satanic".
Which COG did you prefer again?
Jace AKA Satan inspired. said...
ReplyDeleteAt last! Doesn't it feel good to finally come clean and admit it?
Also, Jace AKA tired of this game... said... They're a bad lot, you simply can't prove them to be "satanic".
The Hebrew word SATAN means ADVERSARY. I certainly can prove them to be that. Come to think about it now, you seem to be acting a bit....
I know the PCG and its dirty tricks very well. The PCG is absolutely vile and extremely evil.
It is a serious mistake to fall into the trap of idolizing some drunken, lying, thieving, perverted runt like Gerald "That (FALSE) Prophet" Flurry and let him wreck your marriage, family, and relationships.
At the same time, I also believe it is a mistake to get too carried away raging against God. One serious problem with Gerald is that he lies to people, and tries to make them think that their only choice is to either go with him or else reject God. That is utterly false and a diabolical lie.
(Protip: Notice the clever use of all caps, bold, and italics for emphasis.)
Face it "Ben",
ReplyDelete1) you can't prove them to be "evil".
2) you can't prove them to be "satanic"
3) you can't prove that satan even exists.
4) same goes for yahweh
5) nothing you've written comes across as "clever" no matter how much bold/caps you use.
The bottom line, is that you are a Herbert W Armstrong follower. You are probably a cult member. You follow an absurd, dying religion. You probably feel better about yourself by attacking the worst of the armstrongite cults - PCG - but at the end of the day, you're still a cult member clinging to the ravings of a dead con man, who clung to the ravings of hundreds of men who wrote the bible.
You worship thin air, cannot prove your god exists, and still insist upon attaching metaphysical significance to any situation that suits you.
You are a fool, plain and simple. I am done wasting time with you.
Jace AKA Tooth Fairy Inspired said...
ReplyDeleteFace it "Ben",
This is not Ben. You are mixing me up with some other poster.
I think I understand what you are saying and why you would say it, but I believe you are mistaken.
A good description of the COG situation today actually comes from DCP, a self-made splinter leader (And, NO, I am certainly NOT saying to give him all your money, your house, and your retirement savings.): "Overwhelming, all-encompassing deceit, coming from all sides, has confused, and, in many cases, worn out and totally defeated so many of God's people."
Thanks for offering not to waste any more of my precious time. You probably will waste more, but I suppose it is the thought that counts.
Bad people--like Gerald R. Flurry, for example--are usually bad from the start. However, like tares among the wheat, it is not always clear until sometime later.
ReplyDeleteTime for some history.
After Herbert W. Armstrong (HWA) died in January 1986, Joseph W. Tkach, Sr. (JWT) took over the Worldwide Church of God (WCG). JWT initially said that he planned to walk in HWA's footsteps, but actually started to make changes immediately. The doctrinal changes continued with increasing frequency for almost a decade, always accompanied by denials that any changes were being made. Suddenly, at the start of 1986 the WCG finally actually wrote up in its Worldwide News newspaper that it really was turning against virtually everything that HWA had taught.
What JWT was really like and what he was really up to was not clear to some until after he had completely changed and destroyed the WCG, which is now down to around one tenth of its maximum size under HWA.
Just as JWT was a liar from the start of his reign in the WCG, so was Gerald R. Flurry from the founding of his Philadelphia Cult (PCG) at the end of 1989. Gerald just falsely claimed to be holding fast to what had been taught by HWA.
Gerald started the PCG with some booklet called Malachi's Message, which, despite his denials, he and his co-conspirator John Amos had plagiarized from the writings of Jules Dervaes, who had called it The Letter to Laodicea. After half a dozen updates over the years, Gerald now says it was "delivered by a mighty angel" and is the "little scroll" mentioned in Revelation.
All the doctrinal changes for the worse, and all the craziness in the PCG, are too numerous to mention here.
Of course, Gerald Flurry--just like JWT--did not dare to openly change everything all at once. In fact, Gerald Flurry once quoted Adolf Hitler as saying that, "A clever conqueror will impose his will in installments." Note this well, PCG inmates!
Some people who were fooled by Gerald Flurry just hate to admit that they were completely wrong to follow him. Even when they leave the PCG or get expelled from it, they still like to carry on blabbering away about how the PCG supposedly really did once have the truth and about how Gerald supposedly really was "God's man" for a while until some point in his doctrinal changes where he "went bad." Some small, kooky splinter groups from the PCG are infamous for thinking like this. These delusional morons will get nowhere.
The fact is that Gerald Flurry was a worth-less-than-nothing, drunken, lying fraud from the very start of his PCG cult. As Gerald continues to teach more and more lies and nonsense that contradict what HWA had taught, and, more importantly, that contradict what the Bible teaches, things will become clearer. Some fools (morally deficient people) are so deluded that they will not be able to see this until the PCG and all its members are totally ruined.
The practical reality in the PCG from early on was that people get kicked out for politely refusing to be used by sex maniacs, sex perverts, and predators two or three times their age in the PCG. As someone once put it, "In the PCG each lying, slandering, local tyrant gets to pass off his own satanic abuse as the government of God."
The PCG is a complete fraud and the farthest thing from what HWA had ever intended. It is noteworthy that the delusional idiots and morons who once believed in the PCG and its kooky little splinter groups, and who still praise them as "the closest thing to what HWA taught," now hate God.
Correction
ReplyDeleteSuddenly, at the start of 1986 the WCG finally actually wrote up in its Worldwide News newspaper that it really was turning against virtually everything that HWA had taught.
The date was actually 1995, not 1986.
"Even when they leave the PCG or get expelled from it, they still like to carry on blabbering away about how the PCG supposedly really did once have the truth and about how Gerald supposedly really was "God's man" for a while until some point in his doctrinal changes where he "went bad." Some small, kooky splinter groups from the PCG are infamous for thinking like this. These delusional morons will get nowhere.
ReplyDelete"
Sorry Anonymous, you are no less of a delusional moron if you put any stock in what HWA taught. Same goes for the bible. You're all delusional morons to me.
Just to get some facts straight, as I am just now reading these posts...#1 I do not know what you mean..."bad apple". What ever you're talking about...I'm sure I wasn't that. #2. I was not in an interracial marriage. #3. I do plan on launching a lawsuit. Right now, I'm preoccupied with a lawsuit I have against my next door neighbors whom shot my son's dog at 7:00 am on Dec. 25,2011, (Christmas morning). I sued them and our court date is July 2. The whole crappy truth about why Brian Davis wanted me to leave my ex in the first place was because the other minister involved was telling lies about me because HIS WIFE was jealous of me so Brian Davis and this other minister wanted me OUT OF THEIR AREA! That's the whole FRICKIN TRUTH!!!B.S.
ReplyDeletePS- I would like to post my name, but it would be all over the internet.
Update...Yes, I'm still out here struggling...trying to raise my now 14 year old son by myself. I was the woman mad as hell, posting comments about how crappy I was treated by those idiots...Brian Davis and Andrew Hessong,(his brother-in-law), specifically. Well guess what they're up to now??...Since it starts at the TOP with Gerald Flurry...and under him is Brian Davis...and under him is /was (my areas patsy)...Tim Kucharsky and his wife Nona,who just happen to be...in my opinion...some of the LEAST Christ -like members in the PCG...I was informed by my younger sister recently...that SHE,(my younger sister)...has been speaking to MY LEADER... MR> KUCHARSKY...(NOT), and that Mr. Kucharsky has informed my sister that I owe the PCG money!!...You mean for the PCG having to hire TWO attorneys to send Dennis Leap to defend the PCG'S doctrines during my divorce??...So now THEY,(and I'm assuming, under the ORDERS of Gerald Flurry through Brian Davis) are contacting my family members trying to turn them against me LYING TO THEM! They are AFRAID because I have EXPOSED them. Well let's see..We have Gerald Flurry with his drunken criminal past trying to get SMUT on me from my sister...who just so happens to have several DUI's and has had her license revoked!...She don't have a license anymore and has to take a breathalyzer test every time she turns around! She e mailed me...blasting me, after talking to MY LEADER> MR.KUCHARSKY...How stupid is that??? I'm sure she was DRUNK while she was trying to BAD MOUTH me. But THEN...Tim and Nona Kucharsky, show up at services after they've been drinking...DUI?? And they are some of the biggest lushes in the PCG! The Kucharsky's are just mad because NOW they know the truth about where some of their tithe money has been spent...ON BRIAN DAVIS' BIG FAT MISTAKE...HE STILL WON'T ADMIT!!...Just goes to show...they're reading these posts and are AFRAID they might have to put out lots of money on a lawsuit...which they have left me no choice but to pursue! B.
ReplyDelete