Dennis on "Mom! He called me a bad name!"

"Mom!  He called me a bad name!"

You have to love the religiously human...

Titus 1: 12 Even one of their own prophets has said, “Cretans are always liars, evil brutes, lazy gluttons.” 13 This testimony is true. Therefore, rebuke them sharply, so that they will be sound in the faith 14  and will pay no attention to Jewish myths or to the commands of those who reject the truth. Paul was demanding his followers  and the Cretan  brethren pay no attention to Jewish Myths and go with his newer more pagan ones. He was also saying they should only obey his COMMANDS.  In other words, it's Dave Pack telling the brethren not to follow the commands of Bob Thiel or Rod Meredith. (Did I put them in the wrong order?) It's Ron Weinland telling the brethren not to listen to Dave Pack.  It's Dave saying don't listen to Gerald Flurry.  Its Gerald saying...well we get the point.

The Apostle Paul must have liked Epimenides, the 6th Century BC philosopher' at least for his proposing, contrary to  Cretan belief,  that Zeus was  immortal.  The lie of the Cretans was denying that Zeus was immortal and thus would fit Paul's assertion that Jesus was too.  He and Epimenides were telling the truth about God-Men as long as you did not think of Epimenides as a Cretan, who always lie...  Since Paul told us several times in his letters, "I lie not,"  we KNOW he can't be lying!

Epimenides wrote in his immortalize poem from which Paul quoted,

"They fashion a tomb for thee of high and holy one

The Cretans, always liars, evil beasts , idle bellies!

But thou art not dead, thou livest and abidest forever

For in thee (Zeus) we live and move and have our being"

Paul loved these Pagan quotes even though Dave Pack tells us he rejected his mother's pleas to read Plato, Aristotle and Socrates.  Dave also discounts Einstein because "he had wild hair," but I spare you. 

This , "Cretans are always liars, and this is true" concept that Paul had leads to a paradox which Mr. Epimenides may not have considered or even thought of.

Thomas Fowler  (1869) states the paradox as follows: "Epimenides  the Cretan says, 'that all the Cretans are liars,' but Epimenides is himself a Cretan; therefore he is himself a liar. But if he be a liar, what he says is untrue, and consequently the Cretans are veracious; but Epimenides is a Cretan, and therefore what he says is true; hence the Cretans are liars, Epimenides is himself a liar, and what he says is untrue. Thus we may go on alternately proving that Epimenides and the Cretans are truthful and untruthful."

All that aside, here we have Paul calling a whole nation of people liars and since he is not a Cretan (Well, not that kind), he gets to pronounce that indeed they are all liars, evil beasts and idle bellies and declare that "this is true."    

While the paradox of a Cretan saying all Cretans are liars, which would mean he was lying about Cretans being liars, the Old and  New Testaments are FULL of the religious bashing the religious for their views and lying too.  The Prophets made a living off bashing everyone but themselves.  Each group said the pens of the other were lying and the writers thus liars.  There must have been many pants on fire in the OT.

The Apostles often confronted each other and pointed out each other's faults in thinking. Paul bragged in Galatians about  how he "withstood Peter to his face."  Of course we don't have Peter's side of the confrontation, but I suspect we aren't talking about pork here.  I believe Peter now could see that Paul was not abiding by the Acts 15 injunctions about eating meat sacrificed to idols, by what was on the table. I bet Peter called Paul a liar and Paul called Peter a Cretan.   

The entire book of James is a repudiation of Paul's book of Romans.  "Show me your faith without works, and I will show you my faith by my works."  In short, James was calling Paul a doof and a liar for teaching against the teachings.  Paul taught against lots of teachings and other teachers "tried those who say they are Apostles and are not,"   and got an "A" from Revelation Jesus for doing so.  

The true ministers end up calling every one else, "twice dead," "raging waves of the sea,"  "foaming shame,"  and "whose God is the belly," to top it all off.   If this is the case then we must consider Burger King, McDonalds and all Buffets to be Churches in America.

Paul called people whited walls and Jesus called them whited grave stones.  Whited walls are different from whitened grave stones and tombs. The walls of Paul's mind were the ones made smooth so when men 'pisseth against the walls," they don't get as much splashback as when those bathhouse walls were rough.  When he called the High Priest one of these, he got his mouth slapped but apologized because he didn't know it was the High Priest. You only curse the lower classes. 

I guess one can criticize and make fun of the members but not the supreme leaders in the COGs. 

The Apostle Paul crows about "when cursed, we bless and curse not."   (I Cor 4:12) This held true only for so long as cursing others was not necessary.  Once it became necessary, he cursed them.  He cursed them for accepting any other Gospel besides the one he delivered to them and he hope they'd not only get circumcised, but cut off their private parts completely.  Nice!  

(Aside-I hear the guy at the zoo that circumcises the elephants doesn't get much pay for that dangerous work, but he does admit the tips are big...sorry:)

Matthew 5: 22 finds Jesus saying "But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire, " and then going on to curse the Pharisees as fools. (Matthew 23:17).  The apologetic is that Jesus meant not to call fellow believers fools but it was fine to call the unbelieving fools...fools.   I guess ALL those at the Sermon on the Mount were automatic believers and not a fool in the crowd.   It's like Dave Pack forbidding members to give to charity because he can better us their money and it says help if for  "...the least of these, MY BRETHREN," so that doesn't count those outside the group. 

The point is that when there are hundreds of versions of the one True Church , the Restored Church, The Living Church, the Packaged, I mean PKG Church, the Plain Truth, the Present Truth and the One Truth, you're going to get ministers and members bashing each other big time.  On top of that, some of the main players in the COG saga say and do such amazingly stupid things based on their view of scripture, it simply can't be helped. 

I NEVER met anyone who knew they were in the false church or any minister who thought he was a false prophet, priest, king, watcher, witness or lunatic, until it was apparent to all, and then they would  deny it and dig in.  The Apostle Paul set this form of denial as standard practice for ministers when he noted "all those in Asia have turned aside from me," and then went on to ask God not to hold against THEM.  It never occurred to Paul to wonder why they ALL forsook him, because he could not see he was any part of the problem.  The eye that sees can't see itself as we should understand. 

Reputation bashing is standard procedure between members and ministers, friends and foes when talking about their faith and church.  You bash others when you can't think of a logical way to disagree or think critically, but most of us don't do that anyway when the painbody erupts to feed.  We think more clearly and critically after it eats it's full and then goes back to sleep for a time until the next time.  I can write a dozen articles on what's really going on this or that story, scripture or Biblical teaching and get two or three comments.  Post something on stupid is as stupid does and all the pain bodies erupt and the comments soar.

It's just easier to play "yeah?  yeah!  Oh yeah? " than it is to have a good discussion on a new insight into what one misunderstood in the past.  Criticism is more fun than Critical thinking.

If you are truly seeking to understand what is true and honest , correct and more real, you don't get your information from a painbody while it is feeding.  But that's for another day...

All Christians criticize each other.  Those hurt and offended by the behaviors or teachings of others criticize those that do it.  Those that do it, criticize back for being criticized and to reestablish , in their own minds, that they are not teaching what is not so in reality.  Remember, NO one believes they believe the wrong things and most ministers don't believe in their most introspective moments they are teaching what is not true.  Their ignorance is a function of their education and not in the ability to read or be somewhat charismatic in their delivery.  

We all like to believe we are above the fray and as time passes the few can rise above it and let it all be what it was and is.  That is a skill and a gift from the universe if one ever gets there, "and there be few that be that find it," as they say.

Until then, even with all the injunctions to "bless and curse not," found in the Bible, written by those who can't do it themselves,  criticism is to be expected as part of the curriculum here at Earth School.  I guess the Cretans could have sued Paul for defamation of character but he'd just say he was quoting their own Cretan guru so go talk to him.  He could also make the point that since the original comment was a lie from a lying Cretan, Cretans are not really liars.  Awwww...never mind!

Dennis C. Diehl
DenniscDiehl@aol.com