No real shocker there. The same old party politics and manipulation still are the order of the day.
Robin Webber also lays out some goals that UCG is to be striving for. These goals are the exact same things I have been hearing them say for the last 18 years. For 18 years they have not been able to accomplish any of this. The only thing they have accomplished is division and upheavals.
Robin writes:
We held a retreat session for a day before the formal meetings to earnestly pray and talk to one another as to how to “grow in grace and knowledge” in conveying the gospel of Jesus Christ and the Kingdom of God in a compelling, loving, relevant and hope-filled manner. With today’s fractured and distracted audience, how do we best grab their attention, address their personal needs, and make them consider the great questions of life. Who and what is God? Who and what is man? Why was I born? Why would God even care? What does it mean to believe in Jesus Christ? Does it mean simply to acknowledge Him and experience a casual acquaintance, or does it mean to follow Him by surrendering every fiber of our being into His service? Those big questions of life must be matched by the ultimate Life-giver’s big answers that come directly from the Scriptures."Growing in grace and knowledge" Year after year they have said this exact same thing. For 18 years they have never accomplished this or learned to convey the message of Jesus to the world. Until they surrender to grace and stop prostituting themselves to the law, they are never going to cross the wall they have built that separates them from "grace and knowledge."
Since Jesus is not the focus of UCG's "gospel" message they will never make a huge impact upon their fellow coworkers and neighbors. Because the focus is upon the law and not on Jesus they are not doing their part. Because they do not focus upon Jesus, his word's, his teachings, or actions, they have to leave it up to God to do their work for them. He has to go out and find the people to send to the doorstep. Apparently he has not been to keen in doing that, by UCG's own admission.
It’s our collective prayer and continuing desire to effectively preach the gospel in such a manner that will move people to change their lives and echo the apostle Paul’s words:
“What things were gain to me, these I have counted loss for Christ. Yet indeed I also count all things loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as rubbish, that I may gain Christ and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith; that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His suffering, being conformed to His death, if, by an means, I may attain to the resurrection from the dead” (Philippians 3:7-11).
Allow me to be clear. We are not out to “grow a church” by some worldly methodology, but first and foremost always desirous of growing in understanding the depth of God’s spiritual purposes as defined by His grace, love, law and judgments. When we understand that this is an ongoing activity till the day we die, then things begin to change in our lives, our families, our local congregations and our potential impact expands upon our fellow coworkers and neighbors. As we do our part, God will do His part in what only He can do—call others to understand His truth (John 6:44, 65)! The book of Acts informs us that at times He “adds” (Acts 2:41), and sometimes He “multiplies” (Acts 6:7). We must leave that to Him and “be about our Father’s business” in making ourselves ready as the Bride of Christ.
Maybe Kubik needs to throw the Lifenets "charity" overboard, since the fruits of that so-called 'charity' were to split the UCG in half.
ReplyDeleteIt's hilarious that the UCG would have a new president who was most recently involved in something that resulted in half of their members leaving their super-duper church!
What a joke of a church!
Charlie Sheen = WINNING!, just like
Vic Kubik = WINNING!
I have read elsewhere that Vic resigned as head of Lifenets. However, he placed his wife in charge of the charity, which really means that he is still in charge since women are to be submissive to their husbands. You can be guaranteed that she will never make a decision until she has his approval.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI still prefer to remember Vic as the younger minister who could not take the Weightwatchers diet anymore and bought an on sale Easter Bunny ripping it's ears off in culinary glee and general disregard for the chocolate bunny...lol
ReplyDelete"Grow in grace and knowledge"
ReplyDeleteYeah, well, maybe superstitious belief in ghosts and demons who know the future isn't knowledge at all.
Maybe the existence of a mortal immortal is not a contradiction to the believer but it is to me.
Grace. Grace? If one is forgiven and has the Law to follow for salvation, where is Grace?
Well, she's in the kitchen with Dinah...
Some housekeeping items...
ReplyDelete1) Kubik has been President since May. This is not new information.
2) The UCG/COGWA split had NOTHING to do with Lifentets or cows! That issue happened post-split, when COGWA members attempted to take Lifenets assets (cows) with them. In no uncertain terms did this have anything to do with the split beforehand.
3) Lifenets is not headed by Beverly Kubik. The current chairman is Tom Peine. http://lifenets.org/directors.htm
4) The main reason for the split between Cogwa and UCG was one of future vision and goals. COGWA people had the vision of rebuilding an AC type college on acquired land in Texas, whereas, the current UCG leadership had a vision of more public outreach, ie, TV etc.
5) A red herring argument about a UCG family who operated a school in South America, that stayed open for 19 minutes on Friday eves a couple of times a year during the winter months, was used as a catalyst for COGWA to claim that current UCG leadership was "watering down" doctrine. This was used as propaganda by departing ministers to create suspicion and fear to gather as many members as possible to follow them.
6) The position of President in UCG is not one of an unaccountable leader. The Presidents role is to facilitate operations at the Cincinnati office. In effect, an overall operations manager for the Home Office. He cannot issue radical edicts, change doctrine or "do whatever he wants". He is accountable to the council.
The council is elected by the general council of elders, both paid and unpaid. The large majority of elders are unpaid. There are a couple of unpaid elders who serve on the ruling council.
Joe Moeller
Cody, WY
I believe Cowboy Joe Moeller
ReplyDeleteYa know, Dennis, I do too! I think he gives us the straight scoop, and, he's a good guy. But, we've got our anonymous potshot taker(s) that won't overlook his affiliation. And yet we want as many people as possible who are awakening from RCG and PCG to feel comfortable in visiting with us! Go figure. Some of them might be considering a less toxic ACOG. The way a UCG member is related to here sends a message. I hope everyone realizes that anonymous potshotters are an anomaly, and don't speak for the majority.
ReplyDeleteBB
Victor and his hirelings want to review doctrines that are 2000 years old.
ReplyDeleteThe brethren are taking notice. UCG is a spiritless organization that is ashamed of the Jesus gospel.
The only time that the UCG bosses are clear in their intent is when they vote themselves compensation and benefits, or are complaining about the lack of compensation.
Have you heard any zeal for God?
Interesting, Joe, thanks. I know people in both COGWA and UCG, but have heard about the split only from the COGWA side, shortly after it took place. Therefore I knew the issue with cows in Africa came after the split and did not cause it.
ReplyDeleteHowever, your take on the relative importance of the Texas real estate disagreement and the controversy in South America is different from what I heard before. Fascinating to look at the split from two perspectives.
"4) The main reason for the split between Cogwa and UCG was one of future vision and goals. COGWA people had the vision of rebuilding an AC type college on acquired land in Texas, whereas, the current UCG leadership had a vision of more public outreach, ie, TV etc."
ReplyDeleteI know some people that left an organization (not UCG)to join with COGWA, and they did seem to idolize HWA, so that all makes more sense now.....
I guess COGWA is more in the Flurry/Pack vein......sure is gonna be a lot of concert halls around the country if these splits keep happening......lol
A few facts for ya Joe.
ReplyDelete1. People who go there deny their god HWA but still follow 97% of his doctrines.
2. UCG ministry is loaded with spiritual psychokillers.
3. People who go there are fools.
I think it would be impossible to get a large group of COG types together and not have split after split.
ReplyDeleteBetween the two extremes of the absolute stupidity of the Tkach "leadership style" and the ignorant Bible reading, prooftexting and title taking ego centric Flurry, Weinland and Pack types, what hope would there be of balancing those issues we thought the WCG solved when coming out of our own Protestant, Catholic, Baptist type pasts?
Both extremes of men and thinking would fall under the category of "extremely stupid theologians" outside of the WCG/COG grid.
The historic problem is that from the beginning, before the body cooled, as they say, the Church (which I am not sure any Gospel Jesus intended at all believing God would intervene then) it was already a Jewish Christian/Gentile Christian split. It was never going to heal. Someone would win and someone would lose. The Jewish Christian Church lost in history. WCG was a Jewish Christian Church as are all it's daughters.
Trying to find the balance between a Jewish Church and a Gentile Church is the bottom line for progressive COG's. Pack, Flurry and Weinand demanded the Jewish Christian version. The Tkaches endeavored to shove the Gentile version down our throats bringing most members back to where they came from over about a 2 hour time frame (I was at Big Sandy for "The Sermon") UCG is straddling both concepts and of course it is difficult. It's like standing on a dock with one foot on the dock and one foot in a canoe. Sooner or later you're going to have to make a decision.
The Bible has within it's pages the ticking time bomb of splits and schisms or as I goofed saying once in a Bible Study, "Shits and Splisms"
I recovered by noting,after the howls died down, "well.....there are some shits in the church." It will never change.
Incompetent weaklings: Mister, we could use a man like Herbert Armstrong again -- every body pulled his weight, our La Salle ran great -- those were the days!!!
ReplyDeleteJoe's opinion is, "The main reason for the split between Cogwa and UCG was one of future vision and goals. COGWA people had the vision of rebuilding an AC type college on acquired land in Texas, whereas, the current UCG leadership had a vision of more public outreach, ie, TV etc."
ReplyDeleteIf that's correct, I'd vote for a group that's wasting their members' money building a college, rather than a group that's wasting their members' money on public outreach.
The simple reason being, that the latter effort is more likely to poison new victims with HWA's toxic teachings, while the former effort is more about an 'in-house' activity for present members.
That said, it's a fact that there are many fine people in both the UCG and COGWA It's a shame they need to exist at all, but both groups may be used as a temporary stepping stone by people extricating themselves from evil of Armstrongism.
Anon said:
ReplyDelete"Joe's opinion is, 'The main reason for the split between Cogwa and UCG was one of future vision and goals. COGWA people had the vision of rebuilding an AC type college on acquired land in Texas, whereas, the current UCG leadership had a vision of more public outreach, ie, TV etc.'"
This is not an opinion, it's a fact.
But it's sort of a moot point. Sort of...
Does it matter what you decisions you make to serve people who aren't coming with tithe money they're aren't going to be sending? Does it matter what you plan to do with cash you're never going to have? The fact that UCG and COGWA split over it means it does! I guess it affects who's going to be in charge!
What "Operation Broken Rung" points to is a bankrupt message, shared by both organizations, that is irrelevant to everyone on earth except a declining set of people convinced a dead con artist was the official end-time apostle of the most high everlivin god®. UCG and COGWA are largely carbon-copy organizations, neither of which has much of a reason to exist, or much of a future.
Back in 2006 when Clyde Kilough first proposed the move to Texas, he tried to sell it on the basis of projections that 46% of the then-current ministry would either be dead, medically incapacitated, or retired by 2017, and that then-UCG needed better facilities to train lots of new ministers. It's pretty obvious now that Kilough was leading a cabal that wanted to go back home to Texas, and they wanted to take their jobs (and the jobs of a lot of other people) with them. But they weren't counting on the resolve of the Old-School cabal that had been marginalized for several years, but who had already gone back home to Ohio and taken their jobs (and the jobs of a lot of other people) with them, and by hook or by crook was NOT going to now be dragged to Texas. Besides, according to UCG, ministers don't need that much training, and they've kinda got a point there. If ministers were historically trained to be such conceited, corrupt, abusive, selfish, douchebags, then it would be better not to train them at all!
The growth that COGWA was projecting, planning for (and spending for) for was never gonna happen, and "Operation Broken Rung" is the proof in that particular pudding. What Kilough never factored into his thinking was that the membership would probably decline just as much as the ministry, alleviating the need to "train" so many new douchebags.
Likewise, "Operation Broken Rung" also means that all the spending UCG is doing on television productions and mass media purchases isn't finding a receptive audience among any demographic, so that's just a bonfire of cash as well.
Anyhoo, it never had anything to do with cows.
But this is all just my opinion...
I have heard so many different stories about the split. I told my minister in UCG that I thought the UCG was going to split back in 2008. I cited doctrinal division and that the ministers weren't all speaking the same thing. He seemed flabbergasted! He made some effort to prove what I said...but never agreed with me. I used UCG's own words against them. I left and have never looked back. They have only gotten worse.
ReplyDeleteHead Usher , in general is correct in his opinions immediately above.
ReplyDeleteHowever, many people do not realize that the media operation , "the outreach" is self funding in the UCG. The $2 million or so that UCG is spending annually on media is recaptured from non-member donors and coworkers, who are not members of the church.
No, UCG is not bringing in many new members, but it is not costing the organization any money to continue its media outreach thru the Good News Magazine or the Beyond Today television program.
The organization can at least claim to having a public outreach, and to do so at basic "no cost".
Joe Moeller
Cody, WY
One more affirmative to HEAD USHER.
ReplyDeleteMost UCG congregations are doing just fine with unpaid local elders and local members doing the bulk of the organizing and running of their churches.
Paid pastors are really almost like district supervisors, and may have several churches in their circuits, and/or several states even. The elders in the UCG have 30 to 40 years experience, and know the routine just as well as the paid ministry, and in many cases are better leaders or speakers as well.
Why bother with a college then? Who wants to hear what a 23 year old kid has to say anyway? Much better to save the expense, and time and promote from within with experience and tenure.
Joe Moeller
Cody, WY