Pentecost is fast approaching for those in the Churches of God. This Pentecost is a little different than last years "high" day. This one is different in what the legalists and Pharisees love to refer to as a "double" sabbath. The food nazi's are out in force posting warnings before Pentecost. To them it is ok to hop in your car and drive 50-150 miles behind some smog belching truck for a combined church service somewhere but it is a grievous sin to stop and get a soda or ice cream cone for the kids.
The Pharisees are making demands of the true believers to do the following. Notice that if you do not follow these expectations and go out to lunch between services then you are severely TESTING God. His mercy only extends so far! The chances of dying in a car crash on the way home, choking on your food during lunch or having a heart attack during services increase dramatically. God will NOT be tested by your lunch!
If you don’t already have one, buy a cooler into which you can pack enough food to feed your family and to share if the opportunity arises.
Get acquainted with your local supermarket.
The deli section has cheese, meats, and such things as potato or pasta salad, coleslaw, iced tea, lemonade, and other food that is already prepared and easily consumed.
The produce section has lettuce, cucumbers, and tomatoes for those who like to decorate their sandwiches or salads with such.
Fresh bread or other baked goods from the bakery and what more do you need for a delicious and nourishing meal? [All of which you can buy BEFORE Sabbath or prepare your own BEFORE Sabbath]Of course remember to pack a bag to stow your trash before putting it in an appropriate receptacle for that purpose.One more thing to remember, next weekend will be a double Sabbath, so plan accordingly.Expect some stares and quizzical looks from other brethren as you set up your very own Sabbath meal (once a deacon offered to treat me to lunch and when I told him, “no, this is a Sabbath you know?”, the clueless look on his face made the entire encounter worthwhile).There may be many who reason, “I have been buying meals on annual holy days for (fill in the blank) years now and nothing serious ever occurred because of it that I can tell).God’s mercy is vast but it does have its limits.
The legalistic mind of the extreme legalists and Pharisees in the Church of God is comical in their justifications. These chief bastardizers of the law have never kept the law in its entirety and will never be able to. It is an IMPOSSIBILITY!
These men fail to notice that Jesus constantly was in a fight with the legalists and Pharisees but never with the tax collectors, prostitutes, and sinners that were around him. In fact he sat down to eat with them on many occasions. Almost all of the things he did were done to deliberately provoke the legalists and Pharisees.
On Pentecost as you take out a widow or a family that is struggling financially for lunch, know that what you are doing is good and just and don't let any angry Pharisee wag their fingers in your face.
The people who killed Jesus for disobeying THEIR rules were the legalists and Pharisees.
The legalists and Pharisees are puffed up with pride. They do the law better than anyone else. They have set themselves right with God. External rules are more important than the heart. Being seen obeying the rules exalts them above the filthy sinners in their midst who are eating lunch in a restaurant while they sit outside on the grass with their styrofoam coolers. In spite of the external pomposity they portray, deep inside, their hearts are filled with anger, malice and corruption.
"If you don’t already have one, buy a cooler into which you can pack enough food to feed your family and to share if the opportunity arises." In that case you become the waiter/waitress to the person you are sharing your food with. You have committed "work." If you share food with one person is it considered work? How about 500 people???
ReplyDeleteYou can always count on Armstrongists trying to score points with men for making a big scene of their "obedience".
ReplyDeleteJust as in the first century, when people in the movement were running around telling others to get circumcised. If so much of the NT wasnt taken up with answering that argument, HWA would probably have made it a "your salvation hangs in the balance" edict too.
ReplyDeleteWant to get REAL Phaisaical??? On that 50 mile drive, if your car's engine is turning an average of 2400 RPM, by the time you return home, you will have kindled 288,000 fires on the sabbath!
ReplyDeleteMoney will have been paid specifically for the use of the hall in which you are meeting, meaning that you are causing some of the "unenlightened ones" to conduct business on a double sabbath, while also possibly enrichening a pagan organization (Masons).
Is is any wonder why so many of us have had to work so hard to get rid of the manipulative tendencies we learned from Armstrongism, the concept of pain compliance learned from WCG childrearing, and borderline obsessive compulsive disorder, to say nothing of a fractured sense of ethics and social justice?
BB
Well, lets see...
ReplyDeletePeople will be working down at the electric company so that you have lights at your church, water company so that you can flush the toilet, gas company so that you can have heat, etc etc.
The police will be working so that you have an orderly and safe journey to church as well.
BUT... if you buy an ice cream cone for your cooped up kid in the back seat on your long round trip journey, well, its lake of fire time!
Was this a latest rambling from Malm? or from some other legalistic yahoo?
Those who are faithful in little matters are also faithful in bigger matters.
ReplyDeleteWhile Byker Bob is correct that hiring a hall is paying money for using a piece of property during a Sabbath, thus causing the (no doubt non-Sabbath keeping) owners to be earning money on something being used on the Sabbath, that is only the tip of the iceberg. Of course, often this also involves a caretaker to keep an eye on things – which is clearly unacceptable too.
ReplyDeleteNo, there are big problems with the old chestnut of an ‘ox in a ditch’. This principle is misapplied all the time.
If there is a problem, for example a fire, do you call the professionals, the fire service? Not on the Sabbath surely, because the fire service consists of people who are working on the Sabbath, to provide this cover. These professionals cannot be used – they are not regarding your problem as an ‘ox in a ditch’ situation at all – the fire service are sitting there, being paid, knowing that someone will have a fire, and they can get to work, and get paid for it.
No, if there is a fire, you should only call on unprofessional, unpaid people who may be walking by the hall. They could then help, in this situation, because they aren't being paid for this very purpose.
This would of course apply to other public and private services, ambulance, police, medical aid – don’t call on the professional paid people, only those unpaid volunteers that happen to be around.
Clearly also you can’t use electricity, to boil a kettle, or use any lights, as professional workers are there at the power stations, overseeing that the power is running and is available. Don’t cause them any work. This would apply to all water and gas services too.
So in summary, only use halls that you already own, so no one is being paid for hall hire. Make sure you have big windows in this hall that you have bought, as you should not be using any electric lights. All water to be brought in previously purchased bottles, the taps must not be turned on, or toilets flushed. (So you may need to bring some already lit scented candles to cover any unpleasant smells in the restrooms – if the candles blow out, obviously they cannot be lit again on the Sabbath).
No one coming to services is to use any public transport, such as buses or trains, as that also involves paid people working.
Byker Bob has pointed out the problem of using cars, with the hundreds of thousands of fires being kindled by the engine, so the only acceptable way to get to services is to walk, cycle, or ride a horse, (except of course, you can only ride the horse before the Sabbath starts, and go home again after sunset, when the Sabbath ends, as the horse needs the Sabbath off too)!
Just a few guidelines – no doubt you can think of things I may have missed.
Questeruk you've typed a load of sarky rubbish and you know it. And most probably not for the first time either.
DeleteIt was by one of Malm's worshippers. The link is at the beginning of the quote.
ReplyDelete3:50 PM said: "Those who are faithful in little matters are also faithful in bigger matters."
ReplyDeleteReally? Then why did Jesus condemn the Pharisees who were faithfully tithing their garden herbs, their dill and cumin? He said that, in spite of being faithful in these little things, they were ignoring the weightier matters of the law:
Mt. 23:23: Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
A focus on "little matters" is often a sign of neglect of "bigger matters".
from Topic Header:-
ReplyDelete"This one is different in what the legalists and Pharisees love to refer to as a "double" sabbath."
ref: "Mat 23:2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
Mat 23:3 All therefore whatsoever they (should be MOSES) bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their (the Pharisees) works: for they say, and do not." (bolding mine)
I understand that the Pharisees counted Pentecost as 50 days after the First Day of Unleavened Bread that was the day following the previous evening's Passover. That being so, Pentecost could fall on any day of the week. This year 50 days from Passover in the USA arrives on Sunday EVENING, at sundown, making Monday June 13 the day of Pentecost. Having previously started in Jerusalem the day continues on through the US and arrives in Australia on Tuesday June 14, having begun at sundown the evening before.
It was the Saducees who counted Pentecost from the weekly Sabbath that fell out during the days of unleavened bread, thus it would always fall on a Sunday. Ipso Facto.
Omigosh! The poor sabbath! What are these horrible Pharisees thinking? The reality is, humans inadvertently pollute everything that they touch! Whew! Thank God for grace! We would just never make it without that!
ReplyDeleteBB
"You can always count on Armstrongists trying to score points with men for making a big scene of their "obedience"."
ReplyDeleteLMAO! I can't believe I fell for some of this shit not too long ago!
"...(once a deacon offered to treat me to lunch and when I told him, “no, this is a Sabbath you know?”, the clueless look on his face made the entire encounter worthwhile)."
And that will be ALL that they ever get out of it! That feeling of superiority over others.
armstrongism=a stepford religion
"A focus on "little matters" is often a sign of neglect of "bigger matters"."
I'll ask again and again, which is easier to fake, keeping the sabbath or behaving with true christain character?
DBP
So "a focus on little matters is often a sign of neglect of bigger matters" really ? This is in complete contradiction to the words of Jesus Christ. Luke 16:10 Jesus says clearly "Whoever can be trusted with very little can also be trusted much, and whoever is dishonest with very little will also be dishonest with much..."
Deleteon June 4, 2016 at 8:09 PM
ReplyDeleteByker Bob wrote:-
"The reality is, humans inadvertently pollute everything that they touch!"
Not sure of what you mean here,BB. Does 'keeping' the Sabbath mean 'touching' it?
also:
"Thank God for grace!"
You have often commented in the past "grace trumps law every time". Whenever you have done so this scripture comes to mind:-
"Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?"
What is your take on that verse?
cheers
ralph.f
on June 4, 2016 at 9:27 PM
ReplyDeleteDBP wrote:-
"....which is easier to fake, keeping the sabbath or behaving with true christian character?"
and I'm not sure how to answer.
1. How do you 'fake' keeping the Sabbath?
2. How do you fake "behaving with true christian character"?
or
3. Just how does one behave with true Christian character?
cheers
ralph.f
I disagree that a focus on little matters is often a sign of neglect of bigger matters. Rather it is a sign of rejecting bigger matters. For instance, the Pharisees were ripping off widows houses. People either embrace Satan or embrace Gods ways. Anything in between is unstable, eventually forcing people to choose one or the other. I can't help noticing that with the passage of time, people become more evil or more righteous. Sometimes it's not obvious because of peoples ability to wear a mask, but it's there.
ReplyDelete"Thank God for grace!"
ReplyDeleteSin is the trangression of the Law!
But who's law? The law of the pharisees? We can break those laws with impunity.
The Universe has apparently allowed us exemption from their laws. The ones who won't allow exemption are men, the pharisees[fears-i-see]! :P
This is the way that I see it:
sin=error
suffering=the punishment of our errors
Do we have too stay in error and suffer for all eternity? No!
I'm grateful that the Universe will allow us to correct our errors. Honestly, if we listen and learn from the feedback that the Universe grants us, we can begin to reduce our suffering.
DBP
The people working the ice cream stand are going to be there whether you buy a cone or not. They are not directly employed by you "in your gates." They will work on the Sabbath whether you buy a cone or not, so buy two, and enjoy!
ReplyDeleteI suppose in the millennium when all keep the Sabbath things will get sorted out then.
"1. How do you 'fake' keeping the Sabbath?"
ReplyDeleteThe sabbath is of supreme importance to armstrongism. It's easy to show others how godly you are by keeping it and choosing to make a big deal about it.
"2. How do you fake "behaving with true christian character"?"
Really? HWA, RCM, Dave Pack, Fearald Slurry, and GTA seemed to be able to only fool and bamboozle the sheep. Maybe I should have just said that it is easier to keep the sabbath, rather than the tough job of helping someone through a crisis, or even resolving their own skeletons in the closet. HWA's incest with his daughter for 10! years, while he was supposedly restoring the faith once delivered! C'mon, I know you know this too.
"3. Just how does one behave with true Christian character?"
That's a good question. I don't know if that could ever be answered fully, but paying attention to the feedback you get from others is a start.
DBP
What do you mean "Double Sabbath".
ReplyDeleteWhen I first came into the church, Pentecost was always on a Monday because Herbert W didn't know how to count.
After he was taught how to count on both his fingers and toes, it was always then on a Sunday.
WCG never kept Sivan 6 as a fixed date for Pentecost. It was always counted from the Sunday (inclusive) 50 days following the weekly Sabbath after Passover.
I submitted this yesterday to be publish, guess it didn't go through.
well, you've done a fine job twisting things around so that those following God's instructions are portrayed at pharisees, and those that ignore them are "righteous".
ReplyDeleteI had a minister accuse me of being pharisaical for not going out to lunch on a Sabbath, and then in the next breath said "but I'm not hiring them, the owner is" in reference to the people working at the restaurant. (classic pharisaical logic)
goes to show that when someone accuses you of something, they are accusing you of being what they are...guess it's been that way from the start.
the only justification anyone has ever been able to give for going out on the Sabbath is "HWA said it's ok"
well, if you worship HWA, then go ahead.....but if you claim to worship God, you had better do as He said....God can look down and see who is worshiping Him, and who is worshiping a man.
conducting business, buying food or wares, etc. on Sabbaths and Holy Days, is clearly prohibited by God.
the unenlightened always bring up electricity .....oh if they only had a heart for God, we could discuss that.
The only way in which we could know absolute truth, relevant for our time in history, would be by direct revelation from God. So, we all try to do our best, knowing that nobody living today has 100% truth, and nobody has the authority to enforce it. The missing ingredients, we can't get from man, they need to come from God, who will correct all of us in due time.
ReplyDeleteChristians are supposed to have an attitude of being willing to do anything that God would have them do. The problem comes into play when a man, or men, claim to be the only official channel for God, and then lay all manner of burdens on people that God never intended. These people guilt trip and sometimes ridicule people for not "obeying God" when in fact the people are not obeying what these men have told them was mandatory, based on the mens' own interpretations.
And, of course, it complicates matters that the last recorded instructions are nearly 2,000 years old, and have been translated (thus actually paraphrased) from ancient languages into somewhat modern ones.
As goes the sabbath, in the OT, you don't attempt to stoop down and to pick up manna on the sabbath. In the NT, apparently it is OK to bend down, grab an ear of corn, shuck it, (more actual work than simply picking up manna) and separate a few morsels for yourself if you are hungry. Yet, the culture extant in AD 30 was not that much more advanced from the culture in Moses' day. And, the episode with the corn even predates Jesus' final fulfillment of the law on the cross at Calvary, forgiving mankind's past, present, and future sins.
Pharisees count on people having that attitude of doing everything possible to obey God. And then, at least the modern ones will take the most extreme positions on matters of the law, while also invoking the most extreme penalties. This results in an unfair, unwarranted, anxiety-producing burden which defies faith. It places people in a mental position of holding their salvation in doubt each morning as they awaken, and also, since you can never be extreme enough, of constantly fighting attitude problems. Once you have people in such a mental condition, you can do virtually anything to exploit them!
BB
9.22 AM. Yes, you are a Pharisee. As we know, Christ is Lord of the Sabbath, meaning He has the final say on such matters. The holy spirit once put the thought into my mind, warning me that it is getting close to the Sabbath whilst shopping. But it has never ever said anything when going to a restaurant on a Sabbath. So you see, it's Ok to eat at restaurants during the Sabbath. I pointed this out to Mr Shining Light, but he ignored me, since he loves to throw around attention hand grenades. For instance, another hand grenade is that babies still need to be circumcised on the 8th day, and women need to wear a head covering during Sabbath services. All that attention, it's great fun.
ReplyDeleteWhat's that, you haven't heard from the holy spirit? Did I mention that you are a Pharisee.
Romans 6:14-15, Ralph.
ReplyDelete12.30 PM you are either ignoring, or don't understand context. Come to think of it, I have never heard a sermon/sermonette on context or come across one article in Herbies publications on this. Not surprising, since they want to keep the steeple ignorant, so that the Gestapo ministry can play Gestapo.
ReplyDeleteDon't some orthodox Jews have really extreme ways of observing the Sabbath, or Shabot or whatever they call it. You can't even tear toilet paper. In Israel there are people called 'Sabbath gentiles' - people who are hired to do all your household chores on the Sabbath - lighting fires, tearing toilet paper and putting them in piles ready for use.
ReplyDeleteProbably the pharisees posting on here about not going to restaurants on the Sabbath aren't even Jews...... Even orthodox Jews don't think gentiles need to keep the Sabbath. But there are some weird christian sects who not only think they are Israelites, but that they need to keep the Sabbath in a way that equals a pharisee. Hopefully God is not an obsessive who spends his time watching how the numerous ants below keep the Sabbath in minute details -- I would say that is a pretty sad god.
on June 5, 2016 at 12:44 PM
ReplyDeleteAnonymous wrote:-
"Romans 6:14-15, Ralph."
So, you agree then, we should strive not to sin? As vs.15 indicates:- God forbids sin. Or do you have another point to make.
cheers
ralph.f
Outside of Rasputin, do you know anyone who does?
DeleteAnon noted: "As we know, Christ is Lord of the Sabbath, meaning He has the final say on such matters
ReplyDeleteWhile an oft taught concept , that being that Christ/Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath so gets to make the rules, this is NOT what this scripture means in context.
Matthew 12
1At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath. His disciples were hungry and began to pick some heads of grain and eat them. 2When the Pharisees saw this, they said to him, “Look! Your disciples are doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath.”
3He answered, “Haven’t you read what David did when he and his companions were hungry? 4He entered the house of God, and he and his companions ate the consecrated bread—which was not lawful for them to do, but only for the priests. 5Or haven’t you read in the Law that the priests on Sabbath duty in the temple desecrate the Sabbath and yet are innocent? 6I tell you that something greater than the temple is here. 7If you had known what these words mean, ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice,’a you would not have condemned the innocent. 8For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath.”
9Going on from that place, he went into their synagogue, 10and a man with a shriveled hand was there. Looking for a reason to bring charges against Jesus, they asked him, “Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath?”
11He said to them, “If any of you has a sheep and it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will you not take hold of it and lift it out? 12How much more valuable is a person than a sheep! Therefore it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath.”
13Then he said to the man, “Stretch out your hand.” So he stretched it out and it was completely restored, just as sound as the other. 14But the Pharisees went out and plotted how they might kill Jesus.
Here we have the story Jesus catching flack for being hungry and plucking grain on the sabbath along with his disciples. Next the story of hungry David and his men eating not just bread but THE Bread of the Temple on the Sabbath. A point is also made about priests profaning Sabbath by working in the Temple doing their jobs. Next we have a poor sheep helped out of the ditch on the Sabbath.
Summing it all up, Gospel Jesus says, " 7If you had known what these words mean, ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice,’a you would not have condemned the innocent. 8For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath.”
Jesus is not saying HE is Lord of the Sabbath. Son of Man in this context, as in many others in the Bible simply means "human beings." Human beings are more important than the Sabbath as well as the occasional Sheep or Ox. Human beings take precedence over the Sabbath and while one may argue this is in circumstances of hunger and emergency letting others nit pic your lifestyle on the Sabbath is a bigger mistake than whatever mistake others think you made.
Jesus is not "Lord of the Sabbath" Sabbath keeping human beings are and can make their own decisions for themselves on such matters.
Thanks for explaining it in the way that you do, DD.
ReplyDeleteDBP
on June 5, 2016 at 2:08 PM
ReplyDeleteAnonymous wrote:-
"But there are some weird christian sects who not only think they are Israelites,...."
I am curious as to what is your take on this scripture:-
"Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."
cheers
ralph.f
", the clueless look on his face made the entire encounter worthwhile"
ReplyDeleteBecause 'catching' people and laughing at them is so very Christian.
on June 5, 2016 at 4:24 PM
ReplyDeleteDennisCDiehl wrote:-
"....Sabbath keeping human beings are and can make their own decisions for themselves on such matters."
Dennis, would you say that includes working overtime or extra time at your regular weekly job or keeping your hardware store open all that day?
cheers
ralph.f
I won't be worrying about any "sabbath," double or otherwise. Since there was no seven-day creation and hence, no sabbath rest, the "sabbath" is a sham. I've ignored it for forty years now. Holy days too. Ah, sweet freedom.
ReplyDeleteAllen C. Dexter
"Here we have the story Jesus catching flack for being hungry and plucking grain on the sabbath along with his disciples. "
ReplyDeleteI'm not aware of any passage that says Jesus picked any grain.....not that there was anything wrong with doing it.
would be the same as picking a peach off the tree and eating it....some might see it as harvesting, the enlightened would see it as simply eating a peach.
Dennis, I was taught blackboard English, so there is no way in hell that I will believe that "lord of the Sabbath" means your 'Human beings are more important than the Sabbath.'
ReplyDeleteChrist made your point earlier with his 'man was not made for the Sabbath but the Sabbath was made for man.' He did not use 'Lord of the Sabbath' when He made that point. You sound like Tkach and similar, expecting us to believe something that is not there, just because Dennis says so. I suppose occasionally reverting to 'minister mode' (believe me cause I'm the Big Cheese) is a occupational hazard.
"The deli section has [food that is] easily consumed."
ReplyDeleteJust what are foods that are "easily consumed", as opposed to foods that are NOT "easily consumed"?
"The produce section has lettuce, cucumbers, and tomatoes for those who like to decorate their sandwiches or salads with such."
WHAT?!
This idea is OF SATAN!
"Decorated sandwiches" are a tool of Satan the Devil to DISTRACT God's true CHOSEN ONES from the GLORY of GOD, and interest them in the GLORY of SANDWICHES, instead!
There are MANY DISTRACTIONS on the ROAD TO RIGHTEOUSNESS while driving 50-150 miles behind some smog belching truck for a combined church service.
MANY people have gone to the LAKE of FIRE when their cars crashed in fiery blazes because the driver choked on a satanic decorated sandwich, while following too close to a truck and LUSTING after the chrome nekked ladies on the truck's mudflaps.
Allen C. Dexter, your experience shows to me that the sabbath is a man-made law that is used like a litmus test to have everyone stay in the same pend. Even though it is the easiest law to keep, they like to make it the most important. "It's a sign or mark of God's true church!" Well, anybody can keep the sabbath, pedophiles can keep the sabbath too, does that make them one of God's elect?
ReplyDeleteIt would be more productive for us if we choose to discover and learn the Laws that nobody can ever break. I wonder if we can successfully apply the scientific method to human nature and morality?
DBP
Anonymous @ June 5, 2016 at 9:22 AM said...
ReplyDelete"Well, if you worship HWA, then go ahead.....but if you claim to worship God, you had better do as He said....God can look down and see who is worshiping Him, and who is worshiping a man. Conducting business, buying food or wares, etc. on Sabbaths and Holy Days, is clearly prohibited by God."
But anon, what if I don't believe in Gosh or his son Jeepers?
And if I buy a bagel on Saturday, can there be problems with that? Even if it's from a Jewish deli run by my friend Shlomo Neuberger?
DBP, of course it's a manmade law. They all are and most of them precede the decalogue by millennia. Most christians switched it to Sunday while the Muslims switched it to Friday. I rest when I need to, which is a lot more frequently than once a week these days. Allen C. Dexter
ReplyDeleteThe term "Son of Man' is shown many times in the AKJ. I haven't yet found an instance where it refers to an ordinary man.
ReplyDeletecheers
ralph.f
on June 5, 2016 at 10:51 PM
ReplyDeleteAnonymous wrote:-
"I'm not aware of any passage that says Jesus picked any grain....."
Quite so. Scripture says it was His disciples who "plucked the ears of corn" as in:-
"Mat 12:1 At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn, and to eat."
(bolding mine)
cheers
ralph.f
on June 6, 2016 at 7:01 AM
ReplyDeleteDBP wrote:-
"I wonder if we can successfully apply the scientific method to human nature and morality?"
Ah, Science! That wonderful new god. Did you know there is a new quote doing the rounds? It is this:- "Now that they have the truth, let's confuse them with science."
2xLOL
cheers
ralph.f
"The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never worshipped anything but himself." Sir Richard Francis Burton
ReplyDelete"No nature except an extraordinary one could ever easily formulate a theory." PLATO
It has always puzzled me that so many religious people have taken it for granted that God favors those who believe in him. Isn't it possible that the actual God is a scientific God who has little patience with beliefs founded on faith rather than evidence?
There is this much connection certainly between scientific truth, on the one hand, and beauty and morality, on the other: that if a man entertain false opinions regarding his own nature, he will be led thereby to courses of action which will be in some profound sense immoral or ugly. The G.A.O.T.U.[Grand Architect Of The Universe] or the Laws of Nature[whatever they may be] will be the final judge of us all. I think we can both agree to that?
DBP
"Now that they have the truth, let's confuse them with science."
ReplyDeleteScience, done right, leads to less confusion. We are using the fruits of science right now!
4X LOL! ;)
‘Science’ has concluded that 1/2 of what is called science is probably false.
ReplyDeleteBob Thiel has a current interesting post on his Blog on the topic of science. What's more he backs it up with independent and authoritative publishings.
In addition to that, Ben Stein's movie "Expelled - No Intelligence Allowed" is now shown in full on You Tube.
cheers
ralph.f
Ralph said:"‘Science’ has concluded that 1/2 of what is called science is probably false."
ReplyDeleteScience does not prove anything, it can only PROBE.
"Science, like art, religion, commerce, warfare, and even sleep, is based on presuppositions. It differs, however from most other branches of human activity in that not only are the pathways of scientific thought determined by the presuppositions of the scientists but their goals are the testing and revision of old presuppositions and the creation of new." -Gregory Bateson
Ralph said:"What's more he backs it up with independent and authoritative publishings."
So, are you saying that Bob is now using the evidence and opinions of non-religous men to back up his premise?
It's KNOT about authority! Paradoxes can be resolved with paradigms. Our experience of a paradox happens when we are ignorant of the information that we would need to resolve it.
“Science is not about control. It is about cultivating a perpetual condition of wonder in the face of something that forever grows one step richer and subtler than our latest theory about it. It is about reverence, not mastery.” -Richard Power
DBP
on June 7, 2016 at 5:51 PM
ReplyDeleteDBP wrote:-
"Science does not prove anything, it can only PROBE."
I guess that could be a debatable point I sense that science can prove some matters, however I have not heard of science PROBING the existence of "intelligent design", that of a creator God. Hence Ben Stein's movie "Expelled-No Intelligence Allowed",
also:
"So, are you saying that Bob is now using the evidence and opinions of non-religous men to back up his premise?"
I don't get your drift. I simply copied the heading of his article. A heading that was obtained from 'external' sources'. Puts me in mind of that old saying "you can never trust a known liar, for you don't know when they are telling the truth".
Like, can you trust today's weather forecast? Sometimes they get it right and sometimes not. Best to exercise self control, hope for the best and prepare for the worst. LOL
also:
“Science is not about control."
Have you watched the Ben Stein movie? If you have the qualifications and are seeking employment at some academic institute, beware not to mention "Intelligent Design" or you'll be controlled right out the door through which you entered.
cheers
ralph.f
It can be foolish for us to try and be so resolute in our absolutes. There will always be another side to the story that we don't know about, yet.
ReplyDeleteYou said:"...however I have not heard of science PROBING the existence of "intelligent design..."
Now, that can be a tough one to explain. We are both using the fruits of science to talk about things. If I was overly concerned or obsessed with the silly notion that Al Gore created the internet and that you must believe that before we can continue to talk or listen to each other, that would be foolish, right? The scientific method works so much better, because it focuses on the ways and means on how things actually work and that it can be repeatable. Through experimentation, Nature will give us feedback that can prove one theory is more valid than another. I think that proves our intelligence down here on the third rock going around an average star that is adrift in a galaxy of billions! But most religions are obsessed about authority and NOT knowledge. The ways and means and the science of how we humans got here is complicated, for sure. It just seems to me that some are putting the cart before the horse.
I am agnostic, by the way.
"I don't get your drift. I simply copied the heading of his article."
You said:"What's more he backs it up with independent and authoritative publishings."
I didn't reference my response appropiately, sorry about that.
I watched some of it. I bookmarked it, I like Ben Stein. "Bueler,...Bueler...."
DBP
Science is also about authority.
ReplyDeleteI read.
"independent and authoritative"
A theory becomes authoritative only when it stops being independent. Than it is only an opinion. Science is like a building with the current leading theory being backed up by the most and most authoritative institutions, theories and persons.
It works exactly as the google algorythm. There are billions of websites. Google ranks those upon the requested search in order of "importance". That is websites with the most or most authoritative links attached to it.
So if my opinion is backed up by Harvard or Stanford. That scores more points than if my opinion is backed up by a thousand other people with a lesser score on opinions.
That is because Harvard and Stanford are by itself linked to hundreds of thousands other authoritative opinions.
It is possible that a person with only 2 non authoritative links is actually telling the truth as it is. Especially after an initial find of new scientific discovery. In order for that opinion to be sustained it is important that that person finds backing by either billions of people or some hundred of our best and brightest institutions or a mix if you want to make money.
nck
In sociology, politics or economics sometimes the number of believers is more important than the authorities backing up the theory in the network.
ReplyDeleteFor instance if millions of people "believe" the tsarist family are not mythical but just a bunch or usurpers. They become powerless and quite easy to remove.
If however the same amount of people gather in Davos and they seem to have concluded that oil will become a stranded asset and solar energy is the right thing to do and millions of people are gathering around that idea.
Than I say you better short on oil majors and start investing in batteries.
But it doesn't mean that coal doesn't burn very well. It's just that authorities have found another authoritive theory to propell the world forward.
nck
Dang. my second posting is meaningless without the first!
ReplyDeletenck
Everything that came through today is posted.
ReplyDeleteAh yes,
ReplyDeleteI didn't see my expose on the networking quality of science at first.
nck
An authority desires to stay authoritive, obviously.
ReplyDeleteIt's KNOT about authority, but learning "Keep what works, discard what doesn't"
Envy will prevent you from seeing what is actually there.
DBP
ps: puns don't teach, they over-reach
on June 8, 2016 at 4:17 PM
ReplyDeleteDBP wrote:-
"Keep what works, discard what doesn't"
A GREAT philosophy!
also:
"Envy will prevent you from seeing what is actually there."
That's a good one, I like it.
cheers
ralph.f
"..it is God who binds the couple together, not some man!"
ReplyDeleteWell, we don't know for sure that God started https://www.christianmingle.com/
But I do firmly believe that the Universe gave us the tools to do our binding.
DBP
WHOOPS!
ReplyDelete