I just don't see it that way.
Ok...I don't see it at all.
Spiders
I gave a sermon once with a large 3D image that , when looked at properly and with parallel viewing skills (go learn ye what that meaneth) one would see the hidden picture embedded in the pattern.
The point was, of course, just how difficult it can be at times to see that which is clearly there if we just know how to do it. Once you could see the image, you could never unsee it. If you could not see it, try as you might or would not see it because one believes it's not there to see, you never saw it.
"How's this thing supposed to work?"
(Didn't listen to the sermon)
"Looks like just a bunch of jumble to me"
(Flippant know it all who states the momentary obvious and isn't about to try to see anything differently or ask how to"
(Flippant know it all who states the momentary obvious and isn't about to try to see anything differently or ask how to"
"Oh I see it!!!"
(That was fast!)
"Ok, ok...you kinda gotta just relax your eyes and cross them a bit."
(Apt to teach)
"You're nuts!"
(Their common response to everything not understood or provides no interest)
"I think I see it."
(Eventually did)
"I think I see it"
(Wanted to but I doubt ever did)
"Yeah I see it it. So what"
(Maybe saw it. Maybe not. Can't admit to learning anything they didn't come up with or not actually seeing it, who cares.)
"I think I see it"
(Wanted to but I doubt ever did)
"Yeah I see it it. So what"
(Maybe saw it. Maybe not. Can't admit to learning anything they didn't come up with or not actually seeing it, who cares.)
(Dinosaur)
"This is stupid"
(That's as far as they got)
"Oh , oh....that is so cool!"
(Went about teaching others how to see it too)
"Um...oh yeah, I see it"
(leaves and didn't really)
"I didn't come to church for this crap"
(I went back to church crap the next week)
"Sorry, I don't see it. I gotta go."
(I think they wanted to but it just didn't work for them)
"Yeah, yeah...I saw it. Let's go to lunch"
(Didn't see it. Didn't want to admit they couldn't see. Changed the topic)
"Diehl is an idiot. I want our old minister back"
(Change is uncomfortable. Long for the past and attack the messenger)
"C'mon! Let's go to lunch!"
(More hungry than inquisitive. Or just can't see it and gave up)
(Just kidding... Dave Pack sermon in 2D. Nothing here to see no matter how long you sit and hope to see it)
"C'mon! Let's go to lunch!"
(More hungry than inquisitive. Or just can't see it and gave up)
2D
Old or Young?
It depends on how you look at it...
Okay, so I have parallel viewing skills. The talent shows up in other places besides these manipulated images that Dennis provided. When I am sitting on the pot in my daughter's bathroom staring at the hexagonal tiles on the floor, I can make the floor look closer than it really is and seem to shift position when I move my head. So I've definitely got parallel viewing skills.
ReplyDeleteThis phenomenon brings up an interesting question. Suppose the talent a number of commenters on this blog call "spiritual discernment" or "recognition of answered prayer" works something like this? That is, a person must possess a brain that can be adjusted in the way required to perceive the message? I can only conclude that I have a defective brain that can't master spiritual parallel viewing skills.
Suppose further that the creator has encrypted secret images in what we view as reality and is straining this vat of human scum he has brewed up so that he can skim off and keep the beings that have spiritual discernment, and that he is planning to incinerate the failed specimens he culls out? If that is the case, then all of you who expect me to be tossed into the Lake of Fire are right. I am doomed.
On the other hand, suppose the big guy is testing for specimens who see bathroom floors in their actual stable location, ones who are not fooled by perceptual illusions? Then people who suffer those illusions are the ones who will be culled out and discarded. They are doomed.
Notice that we cannot possibly settle these questions from our limited perspective. As John always concludes, "Time will tell."
A quote from "Sergeant Schultz" (the late John Banner) from the old "HOGANS HEROES" television show is apropriate here...
ReplyDelete"I SEE NOTHING!
It seems as if this would be one of those natural or intuitive principles, but sadly, it is not. Acknowledging that there are perspectives, especially ones that should be considered as we act or react with others, runs counter to Armstrongite programming. We were taught that there is one correct or approved perspective, and that not making that perspective our own was rebellious, or displayed intellectual vanity.
ReplyDeleteCan anyone honestly fathom a statement like, "Well, that's just Mr. Armstrong's perspective." At the very least, if reported, something like that would earn you a counselling session!
BB
Optical illusions are fun. Are you saying religion should be fun?
ReplyDelete(Now what category would that ? be under?)
Anyway, I think I get your point. We will never ever get to see things in exactly the same way(talkin quantum level), and cults can never change that. In fact, they probably exacerbate the problems.
DBP
I remember these well and found them fascinating. Your analogy to being open minded in order to "see" another opinion is also fascinating. It was easy to visualize your examples, except for the last two of course.
ReplyDeleteOops, I meant the second from the last. I did see the old and young in the last example.
ReplyDeleteI was just looking at a bunch of photos on the web that were smuggled out of North Korea. The prisoners/citizens need permission from the government to even use public transport, and are constantly watch by others, especially soldiers. This is just like government in the slivers
ReplyDeleteNow the perspective is that this is tyranny from the mafia ministers which the bible condemns, or it is legitimate church government with the ministers 'administering gods government.'
Which perspective is the right one?
The Universe doesn't care what you think you see, it just doesn't.
ReplyDeleteIf you see British Israelism as true, then you are wrong. The fact is that British Israelism is a delusion of the class of science fiction dedicated to alternative world history. British Israelism is the worst science fiction ever.
Just because you saw a cloud and you believe it is the Star Trek Enterprise going into warp, it isn't true.
And this is where we have the discussion about distorted perceptions being the root of mental disorders. Except we won't.
That's the beauty of this stupidity: Just because there are some graphics that can be see different ways, does not mean that you can do the same thing with reality and science. To do so allows kooks to achieve social legitimacy when there is none.
Just because Doug Winnail perceives British Israelism to be true and is slated to teach a class in it at Living University does not make him less full of crap because, frankly, he's wrong, all of Armstrongism is wrong and they have to come to grips with it. But they won't. They won't because the fate of ministers and Armstrongist leaders hang in the balance.
So the CoHAM has made a choice: Teach and believe in really stupid lies because if you don't their lives will change for the worse economically. Heavens, some of them might starve or have to do real work.
But on the other hand, it could work out if they can be in a Mental Health facility being fed, clothed and housed because outside they are a danger to themselves and / or others.
Believing you can fly on the wings of an angel to the place of safety when bad times come will leave you standing exactly where you are (or maybe you'll be able to see pigs fly).
And to quote Obi Wan, Many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view
ReplyDeleteThings look different through BI + Church Eras + Place of Safety filters.
i guess from some folks perspective its hard to see how the world is steady marching towards armageddon given the petty topics of discussion on this site...
ReplyDelete1) It's not, and 2) even if it were, who cares? We got to live some pretty darned nice lives instead of having it all come tumbling down in 1975.
DeleteCue Bob Dylan's "Desolation Row".
BB
1) why do you say its not? 2) just as sure as you need air to breathe, food to eat, shelter, safety from thugs, and interaction with like minded people you will care...
Deletebut as long as you retain those things you will take such a stance...
fact is donald drumpf, and that german name is his actual family name, will lead this nation into chaos, and subsequently the world: you will be caring soon enough...
My wish is for COG types to consider seeing their world through new and different eyes so that they might not waste their lives on fairytales and the magicians who tell them
ReplyDeleteThis post is a old ploy used many times by collectivists. I heard two speeches in spokesmans club on this very point. All that Dennis's article confirms is that sometimes patterns are ambiguous, nothing more. His 'new and different eyes' is nonsense. This ambiguity point is used to discredit the five senses and have people blindly believe some demagogue instead. The God created five senses are basically infallible. This is the foundation of human knowledge. To reject this makes one is a slave to other people, in this case a intellectual puppet of Dennis Diehl, and every other predator.
ReplyDeleteDenying the validity or casting doubt on the validity of the five senses is murder.
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeletei guess from some folks perspective its hard to see how the world is steady marching towards armageddon given the petty topics of discussion on this site..."
What you might mean is:
"I can't see it. I don't have to see it, I don't wanna see it and even if I did see it, I would tell you! When we gonna get back to the real stuff like the end times, soon, any day now, in my lifetime...and WE shall be changed!"
That's a good one too. You have to be a church member from a splinter or you'd not even be here , which of course, you don't have to be if it's too shallow for you.
i am not, but you are indeed a scoffer...
DeleteApt metaphor. Selecting a different way of viewing opens the mind to new vistas..
ReplyDeleteWith COGs (or the Bible if you so choose) this can mean simply removing what you might call a "veil of reverence" from your eyes.
When an adherent to HWAism reads articles, booklets etc. and listens to sermons there is a kind of veil over the eyes through which it all passes, that imparts a sort of feeling of reverence to it, so that even nonsensical material takes on an aura of truth somehow.
Remove the "veil" (i.e. acknowledge that these are just men with their own ideas trying to interpret ancient words as they would like them to be interpreted), and suddenly your mind begins processing BS as, well, BS.
I realize most in this forum don't like to hear it, and this is just me speaking, but the same really is true for the Bible too.
If you remove the veil of reverence from your eyes when you read the Bible, propose just for a second that - "ok, *what if* this was not god-breathed but just written by men in the context of their own times?", without that feeling of reverence attached to everything you read in it, very soon the image of it being a very human book will being to automatically pop out on its own, just like in these 3D images. Before you know it, there the image is, and you kick yourself wondering how in the world you ever missed it from the start...
Stephen Hawking needs to look at this.
ReplyDeleteDennis Diehl; Well one thing for sure Dennis, you know what wasting time on a fairytale is all about, and listening to others like Aron Ra who believes in the same fairytale, and you talk talk about others wasting their life, either way Dennis, we will all find out who wasted what in the long run. If there is no God or if the bible isn't true then it really doesn't matter if I wasted my time believing it, on the other hand, what if God and Jesus and the bible turns out to actually be real, that means I didn't waste my time at all, now where that leaves you, I don't know.
ReplyDeleteConnie Schmidt said...
ReplyDeleteA quote from "Sergeant Schultz" (the late John Banner) from the old "HOGANS HEROES" television show is appropriate here...
"I SEE NOTHING!"
Those still in a splinter Church will naturally see nothing, so that's fine. I understand!
:) :) :) :) :) :) :)
Seven Smiles to ya!
It's ants, not spiders, and this statement is inconsequential.
ReplyDeleteAnon wrote:
ReplyDelete"Denying the validity or casting doubt on the validity of the five senses is murder. "
Well at least 3 of my senses tell me I'm sitting on a non-moving foundation.
It took us a long long time to figure out that's not the case, despite what our senses tell us.
It's interesting how some (or many- or most) people don't want to see what's in front of them- or if they do, they just don't care.
ReplyDeleteThey'd rather "see" bullshit that's proffered by their favorite preachers, like those crazy 'truths' of megagachurch preachers- or even when when Marie Osmond(a brood mare for the Mormon Church) says, "I'm Marie, and I lost 50 pounds on Nutrisystem!"
Dennis
ReplyDeleteThe fairy tales aren't really fairy tales.
Since I won't be there when they are about to throw you into the lake of fire, I'II say it now. I told you so. I repeat, I told you so.
Cheers.
You're right. I was not seeing correctly. I repents
ReplyDeleteAnon 2:19 that's called Paschal's Wager
ReplyDeleteAll proving once again that if you keep your mind sufficiently open, people will dump trash in it.
ReplyDeleteThe zombies are always going to see the end times in everything around them, and they're always going to filter everything through the teachings of HWA. They're going to base their purpose in life on Armstrongism. That's their perspective, and it's mighty surreal.
ReplyDeleteBB
Anon said:"I realize most in this forum don't like to hear it, and this is just me speaking, but the same really is true for the Bible too. If you remove the veil of reverence from your eyes when you read the Bible, propose just for a second that - "ok, *what if* this was not god-breathed but just written by men in the context of their own times?", without that feeling of reverence attached to everything you read in it, very soon the image of it being a very human book will being to automatically pop out on its own,..."
ReplyDeleteThat was the greatest catalyst for me, for losing my religion. I have realized, even knowing that some will say that I have been deceived, that the bible is nothing more than the journal notes of men who have come before us who were also in a sense doing their best to figure it all out. There is good and bad in the bible, simply because it was written by men. Jesus Christ didn't write it, nor did he even appear to care to do so. All of the denominations have got it so wrong when they choose to fight over what it really means. Just live it the way JC did and the actions will speak for themselves.
The bible has been translated and mis-translated so many times, that it appears that there is no consequence for not dotting every i and crossing every t. Maybe someone was referring to the "Laws of Nature", when they were warned about getting whatever is in that Book, wrong. None of us can break the law of gravity. "BUT we put men on the moon, including bringing them back to earth!" Yes, but that great achievement was done through greater precision of obedience towards the law of gravity, which is also contained in that Book.
“natura enim non nisi parendo vincitur”
DBP