Have the leaders of United church of God FINALLY admitted there is NOT a humble bone in any of their leaders? Don't count on it. The UCG big boys are declaring a fast because their conference is coming up and they need to be united in determining what they believe and how forcefully they want to be in presenting their message to the world. Essentially they've been epic failures in many of their previous "evangelistic" attempts. Due to the lack of humility and purpose in the church leadership, the membership are now expected to fast upon their behalf.
We humbly ask the entire United Church of God to join the Council of Elders and the administration for a day of prayer and fasting to beseech God for the necessary wisdom needed to understand His will. The Council has set the date for this fast for the Sabbath of April 22, which we pray is a day when we can all fast and beseech God together as a church.Apparently UCCG members are being bombarded with satanic conflicts that is causing them to fail to stand behind the ministry and send in their money.
We know that we are living in critical, crucial times. We are bombarded everyday with the conflicts that are extant in the world. God and Christ have commissioned the Church of God to cry aloud and serve as watchman during these tough transitional times. The peoples of the world are filled with a sense of anxiety and discontent.If only UCG had a message of hope for the world. Because it refused to follow and acknowledge the very man they claim to follow, how can they truly be effective?
In these vile and violent times, it is important that UCG members stand behind their leadership, send them as much money as possible so they can get off their indulged behinds and actually do something.
In times like this we need to draw as close to God as we possibly can. The apostle James writes: “Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded. Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness. Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up” (James 4:8-10, King James Version).Can you imagine a UCG or any COG minister "cleaning their hands, purifying their hearts? Will Kubik and Robin Webber publicly "mourn and weep" for the evils they claim to see in the world? They do not do it for the evils in their own church, so why would they do it for the world? Perhaps if they started first with their own church and opened their eyes to the spiritual and doctrinal abuse that costly goes down, then they might be able to see abuse in the world and have an answer for them.
Brethren, we all want to do the will of God and serve Him with all our heart, mind and strength. We need God to help us as never before. All of us deeply desire to do the will of God and finish the work He has given us to do. Note the words of the apostle Paul, “See then that you walk circumspectly, not as fools but as wise, redeeming the time, because the days are evil. Therefore do not be unwise, but understand what the will of the Lord is” (Ephesians 5:15-17, emphasis added).Why is it that the ministry claims on one hand that the brethren "want to do the will of God," and on the other claim that the brethren are not currently doing so? Perhaps the matter lies in the fact that the members "do" want to do the will of God, but it is the privileged and over indulged church leadership and ministers that do not?
Each one of us needs to ask ourselves: “Am I discerning the times”? Am I one of the wise virgins or am I one of the foolish virgins? We all want to be one of the wise virgins and have our lamps filled with oil.The ONLY people that should be fasting in the UCG are the ministers and leadership of the church. They need to publicly declare they are sorry for their mistreatment of members, for being narcissistic, for having no humility, and for expecting that they deserve to be treated as "royalty" in their privileged lifestyles. These are the men who need to be fasting, not the members.
Satan is the one out to destroy them. It is the members fault they allow Satan to control them. The ministry never has THAT problem, at least that is what the boys in Cincinnati believe.
When we fast we are in essence saying, “Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve” (Matthew 4:10, KJV). Jesus was not fasting to get—He was fasting to draw close to His Father so that he might do the will of the Father who sent Him, to die for the sins of the world.
Each one of us needs to ask ourselves: “Am I discerning the times”? Am I one of the wise virgins or am I one of the foolish virgins? We all want to be one of the wise virgins and have our lamps filled with oil.
And so, at this time, we humbly ask the entire United Church of God to join the Council of Elders and the administration for a day of prayer and fasting to beseech God for the necessary wisdom needed to understand His will. The Council has set the date for this fast for the Sabbath of April 22, which we pray is a day when we can all fast and beseech God together as a church. There is a great synergy created when we all fast together for the purpose of humbling ourselves and drawing closer to our heavenly Father. We are not fasting to get, but to give; that is, to be able to more powerfully proclaim the coming Kingdom of God.That last paragraph is a load of bullshit.
When will the boys in Cincinnati EVER set the right example?
It is just so sad that they have to guilt people into giving them money.
ReplyDeleteAll that is accomplished when you fast is that you make yourself hungry. The leadership of the UCG is going to make the same bad decisions whether the members fast or not.
ReplyDeleteOnce again the diligent ministers ignore that you only fast on a Sabbath if it's the Day of Atonement or Tisha B'Av or a real emergency, and I'd say a fast scheduled six weeks in advance doesn't qualify.
ReplyDeleteAnd don't members already fast twice a week as in the first century church (as mentioned in the Didache)?
The beginning of the Kubik/Ward FAST letter sounded a lot like the Living group's FAST letter!
ReplyDeleteIt says: "...This is a few weeks before the General Conference of Elders annual meeting in Cincinnati and we are praying for God’s guidance and direction for the Church..."
It sounds like God has not, is not, providing guidance and direction to this man-made United Ass. And if that is true, then why should God do any of that now? What about all of them past FASTS? Where is all that humility? When will it be obvious for all to see?
We know that the Bible says: "Now we know that God heareth not sinners..." John 9:31
Are there any sinners amongst the United leadership? The United members?
The Kubik/Ward letter states: "...We will all be fasting with these passages in mind. We want to root out finger pointing and evil surmising and break the yoke of wickedness. We want to be reconciled to God, Christ and each member of the Body of Christ, for we are all members of one another (Romans 5:12). It appears that fulfilling the foregoing is a prerequisite for God answering our humble petitions to bless us and lead us..."
When will the members stop that finger pointing, those evil surmisings, breaking those yokes of wickedness? Of course, those are some prerequisites!
And when will the United Ass. leadership teach the brethren to stop begging God, to stop striving to make their voice heard on high? Read God's Word! Don't blame me.
"Behold, ye fast for strife and debate, and to smite with the fist of wickedness: ye shall not fast as ye do this day, to MAKE YOUR VOICE to be HEARD on high." Isaiah 58:4
Why doesn't the United Ass. believe the words God inspired Isaiah to tell us? Fasting serves another purpose besides beseeching God, begging God to hear their voices.
God knows who are His...and His don't need to beg for anything...and God does guide and direct His without being beseeched...as though God were deaf and blind...some dummy someplace that is not in the know.
And what does the Sabbath mean to the United Ass. leadership? The 7th day where God never said: "And the evening and the morning were the seventh day." The United Ass. has no clue as to what that specific day was created for, but they knew it was a Feast day, a day of rest, but a fast day? Where did the United Ass. get that junk food idea from? It comes not from God, b/c it sounds stupid. I'm not saying the leaders are stupid, but their thoughts of vanity? Well, that's something else. No wonder God's thoughts/ways are so far above ours (yes, mine included).
Is United getting geared up to make the voting of doctrinal changes easier to make and then shove down the member's throats? Some think so. So far, the United Ass. is no different than those other xcogs: living, cogwa, philadelphia...et al. Surely, God is not that DIVIDED, or is He?
Sure, this creation was MADE SUBJECT to vanity, but for how much longer?
Well, time will tell...
John
This post is superb. You tell it like it is, that is why many are flocking to this website. It is not the members who should be fasting but the ministry ain't that the truth.
ReplyDeleteDo they ever consider that Jesus Christ now walks amongst the candlesticks of the churches of God in heaven and can and will remove them if he so judges.
They are not alone in this, but they call fasts as if its call the members fault. What is this fast about any ways ?
I thought a Fast was only rod's way of making the sucke....I mean the Brethren feel that they are a part of God's work
ReplyDeleteSeriously, they haven't even begun to repent if they don't disavow British Israelism.
ReplyDeleteThe real purpose of the fast is revealed in the last line.
ReplyDelete"We are not fasting to get, but to give; that is, to be able to more powerfully proclaim the coming Kingdom of God."
Of course the way this is worded the member is going to think that in order to more powerfully proclaim the coming Kingdom of God, the church needs more MONEY.
This approach plainly shows where their heart and soul lie. They are too chicken to come outright and ask for more money, so they make up this ruse that the members may be part of the unwise virgins, so they better dig in and send more money so that it will appear that they belong to the wise.
Yahweh is not fooled by this approach. He is not going to bless them to the extent that their coffers will be filled to the brim with more cash. What will most likely happen is that some weak brethren are going to feel guilty and send in a few extra dollars.
These hirelings need to be put in stocks and have their ass exposed to the world, so that every passerby can give them the well deserved kick in the ass.
ReplyDeleteThey lack the Superfantabulosity of the Pack/Flurry strict-to-the-letter-Armstrongism-Fundamentalism.
They don't even have a gleaming clone-AC campus!
This is probably the biggest scam perpetrated upon the COG membership....ALWAYS relating problems or wants from the ministry to the lack of "fill in the blank" of the membership. It's never THEIR issue, lack of faith or bad behavior, but the underlings that just has to be the problem. The blind emperor ailment is so much the real problem for these people who think God supports their every thought, action or word.
ReplyDeletePerhaps if true humility, the ability to actually admit when they are wrong, don't have all the answers or apologize for their lives and attitudes, God might actually listen or heed to these empty exercises, like church-wide fasts and the clarion calls for more money.
Maybe if they even took on the original 12 apostles edict from Christ to go out and not worry about money, or anything on absolute faith THEMSELVES, some of us might actually believe they are true servants of God and not to their own bloated ideas and lives.
IMHO, the "call a fast" ploy is a sneaky and underhanded pro-active tactic designed to get the people already invested in and behind whatever shitty decisions the leaders are going to wind up making.
ReplyDeleteNone of the ACOGs are making a visible attempt to fulfill the commission which they profess. They've got this concept that in the end, God will work through them, draw attention to them, and a powerful warning will go out to the world. Obviously, this is not happening, the ministers and members are becoming frustrated, and everyone is getting old.
ReplyDeleteThey should be contemplating several possibilities: 1) This is not the end. 2) They are not God's church. 3) God has sidelined and neutered all splinters because leaders could not work with one another in order to preserve the group with its original mass and power. 4) God does not want a "gospel" preached that Jesus will return to make Armstrongism His government in the kingdom. 5) They disqualified themselves by failing to embrace the Tkach corrections. 6) They need to shed the non-biblical British Israel-German Assyria theories. 7) The "commission" was never ordained specifically for them by God. It was something HWA took on, and applied to himself, much as he did with many other things. He was plainly and simply the Wizard of Oz.
As we always did while we were members of HWA's church, I humbly point to the fact that I have come up with 7 points as proof that they are true.
BB
Acts 5:38,39
ReplyDeleteThe founding fathers had a slogan "No Taxation Without Representation".
ReplyDeleteThe UCG asks its lay membership to fast and pray, yet disempowers them to have any say or binding vote on anything. How about "No TITHEATION Without Representation"!
Sort of like the Magna Carta, where the "Nobles" were given a right to vote, UCG elders are enfranchised. That was a good first step beyond "one man rule" but still far short of what is needed. There are no market forces or accountability of any of the ministry to the ones they are suppose to be serving at the bottom. The lay membership are not even technically legal members of the UCG, only the elders are!
Get away from the idea of central command, and have local elected boards of the laity have the ability to hire and fire ministers. This is how many churches operate. Stop it with the the centralization or "federalization" of all of the revenue. There is no market feedback system to motivate and monitor the paid ministry.
Like all socialist systems, they eventually collapse when the "run out of other peoples money". The demographics of the UCG are such that revenue is already shrinking and will only get worse. Will the "Faustian Union" of the paid ministry remain loyal to the concept as the paychecks and security begin to slowly implode? Time will tell.
Time for a Bill of Rights for the UCG laity!
I have never heard of a mainstream Christian church call for a church-wide fast so that they can get the gospel message out. They just preach the gospel and they have faith that god will add to their numbers as he wills. Then again the UCG is not a mainstream Christian church.
ReplyDeleteWe are not fasting to get, but to give
ReplyDeleteSome Mormon elders told me when they fast (monthly or better) they give the money they would have spent on food to the poor.
"The founding fathers had a slogan 'No Taxation Without Representation'. The UCG asks its lay membership to fast and pray, yet disempowers them to have any say or binding vote on anything. How about 'No TITHEATION Without Representation'!"
ReplyDeleteThe problem here, is that a biblical model is a tyrannical one, with power coming down from an absolute despotic authoritarian dictator. Herbie saw that and knew he could make hay with it by inserting himself into the hierarchy that people already believed in.
A democratic approach, one where the power comes up from the people, is an inherently secular approach, which, while I applaud it, is contradictory to christianity's central thesis. Ultimate power cannot reside with both the gods and the people: it must be one or the other.
At the end of the day, however, it remains true, as the Arab Spring demonstrated, that even tyrants only have the power over the people that the people yield to him. Likewise, in reality, gods only have power that people give them. If christians decided to take that power back, their gods would have only the same recourse as Odin and Zeus—none at all.
Sometimes I wonder why I stay with the UCG. It was started in 1995 with the promise of a lot of local control but the leadership has not lived-up to the expectations of the local members. Very disappointing. Now will the leadership try to blame the lay members for any failed effort to recruit more members because enough didn't fast?
ReplyDeleteOK, here we are again. Do not you people know that Mr. Armstrong finish preaching gospel all we have to do is waiting for Christ return. All this groups are nothing but falls bullshit.
ReplyDeleteNo, Ilija, Mr. Armstrong turned sissy and wussed out when the doors opened and he finally got the opportunity to preach the gospel to world leaders. It doesn't really matter, because he was only preaching half a gospel anyway.
DeleteNow God is going to have to raise stones up, because the splinters frittered away all of their power. Well, actually that isn't altogether true. Mainstream Christians are doing an excellent job of spreading the gospel!
BB
Capitalist systems never collapse. They never run out of other people's sweat because there is a never ending supply of wage slaves. Then when they do collapse like in 1929 they just start a war and kill the surplus slaves and make more money blowing things up. That's what makes it such an efficient system, the slave labor and blowing things up, rebuilding them, blowing them up again, making tanks that rust between wars, then making more tanks so they can rust or get blown up. Super efficient. There is no faster way to exhaust the earth's resources than capitalism.
ReplyDeleteNotice how they created a package deal by throwing in at the end "We are not fasting to get, but to give; that is, to be able to more powerfully proclaim the coming Kingdom of God." They decided to disguise and protect the 'give/get way.' The 'give way' has always being the hard working and responsible doing the giving, while the lazy and irresponsible do all the getting.
ReplyDeleteThey refuse to let go of this game of the unjust steward (which conveniently increases the ministers power level), while asking God to bless them.
They want Gods blessings on their own evil terms. Dream on.
IIija
ReplyDeleteArmstrong died over 30 years ago. Should'nt the new generation hear the gospel as well??
I'm gonna stay with the Church of God (7th Day). A church that is still very much alive and proclaiming the Gospel!
ReplyDeleteAnon said:
ReplyDelete"Sometimes I wonder why I stay with the UCG."
You don't have to, you know.
It's as simple as just not attending. (And not giving them your own money.)
Life will go on fine, if not better.
I question the accusation from some that Herb 'turned sissy and wussed out' when witnessing to world leaders. World leaders are not dummies. They had their advisors who would have informed them what's behind expressions such as Herbie 'a strong hand from somewhere.' He respected political protocol by not directly mentioning God, which could have had political consequences for the politicians present.
ReplyDeleteHerb was no social barbarian in spreading the gospel. Neither was Christ. I don't fault Herb on this one.
6.06 PM
ReplyDeleteContrary to what you say, the bible government model is not tyrannical. In Mathew Mark, Christ said not to lord it over members like the gentiles. The word obey appears 26 times in the NT and in 22 cases it means 'take heed of, be persuaded, take not of..' In only 4 cases does it have a military flavour such as 'obey God rather than man.' Lording ministers project tyrannical government into the bible, but at close inspection, it is not there, but rather condemned.
7.47 PM
ReplyDeleteComrad, I volunteer to pay for your one way ticket to North Korea so you can enjoy your anti capitalist heaven on earth.
1:04 AM wrote:
ReplyDeleteYou said a bunch of stuff, but you didn't refute anything I said.
The point was and still is, in authoritarian regimes, the power is theorized to come down from above, while in democratic regimes, the power is theorized to come up from the people.
You can put whatever benevolent spin upon an authoritarian regime headed by a tyrannical god that you want to. It doesn't change the biblical theory on the direction that power is supposed go, or the absolute power that tyrant is supposed to wield according to that bible.
ReplyDelete"Comrad, [sic] I volunteer to pay for your one way ticket to North Korea so you can enjoy your anti capitalist heaven on earth." March 19, 2017 at 1:09 AM
Now that's a generous offer, but it's not fair and balanced. You also need to purchase yourself a one-way ticket to the Libertarian utopia of Somalia.
Notice that the following verse speaks in the PRESENT TENSE not future, but NOW!
ReplyDelete1 Peter 2:9-10 reads as follows: “But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;
The veil was ripped when Jesus died! There is no need for hierarchy, only cooperation amongst those who are led by the Spirit. Democracy can work for a church IF, and thats a big if, the people are indeed led by the Holy Spirit. The spirit is the governing power and authority.
ReplyDeleteThe disUnited Church of Godlessness: Where unrepentant, unconverted, unbelieving perverts go to behave very badly while playing church.
9.17 AM
ReplyDeleteThe reason I didn't refute anything you said (in your eyes) is because you ignored everything I said. The bible is anti-authoritarian, which you insist on dismissing.
I suggest you look long and hard at what God created rather than other peoples theorizing. A government must have the approval of its subjects in order to properly fulfil its role of protecting its citizens rights. This is inherent in reality, just as rubber is flexible or glass is brittle. Which is why God gave Israel king Saul when they reject God and asked for a king. When a government lacks its citizens approval, a government reverts to tyranny to remain in power. The government then becomes at war with basic reality.
Christ will rule for all eternity because He will have the approval of His subjects. It will not be a authoritarian government but a freedom loving, rights respecting government. I suggest you read some books on assertiveness to comprehend this alternative.
Prof
ReplyDeleteOther nations such as Singapore and Hong Kong (before the commies took over) are the closest one can find to the libertarian beliefs.
Besides which, libertarianism is watered down capitalism for the masses. Positive and negatives rights, how ridiculous is that?
According to the bible, the only reason why Christ will have the approval of His subjects is because he employed what the Nazi's called "the final solution" for the vast majority of the human race who were not on board. According to the bible, he's eventually supposed to make Hitler and Stalin look like good guys. I suggest you read some books on propaganda to comprehend how you've been hoodwinked.
ReplyDelete5.57 PM
ReplyDeleteYou are obviously a God hater. It's rare for people to be open about it.
Anon 4:24, Singapore operates on libertarian beliefs? You leave me mystified.
ReplyDeleteAs the name suggests, libertarians (not limited to members of the Libertarian Party) are big on individual as well as economic liberties: people should be free to make choices about drug use, sexual activity, expression of opinion, worship, and so on. Knowing nothing about Singapore except a few reports about caning as a penalty for such misdemeanors as littering, I checked Wikipedia. Here's the first sentence I read: "The government in Singapore has broad powers to limit citizens' rights and to inhibit political opposition."
Other tidbits: the internal security administration "permits indefinite detention without formal charges or recourse to trial"; the death penalty is mandatory "for the possession of more than 14g of heroin"; laws have "restricted freedom of speech and freedom of the press"; adults are required "to enroll for national service."
Libertarians see the ideal government as none at all, except just enough to prevent theft and enforce contracts. Let people do as they wish and settle any issues among themselves; the strong will win out and the weak will submit, die, or emigrate. Somalia has had no central government for 14 years. A headline in yesterday's *Telegraph* reads," 'There are no laws. We are in a country where no one can control anyone else'." Pretty much a libertarian dream carried too far. The result of this free-for-all is rule by regional warlords. The lack of coordinated transportation networks exacerbates famines from drought.
7.43 PM
ReplyDeleteIf you look up the 2017 index of economic freedom (which includes rule of law and government size) Hong Kong is at number one and Singapore at number two.
No, the Libertarians do not view no government as the ideal. They believe that there needs to be government to protect individual rights, hence people settle disputes through the law courts rather than 'among themselves.' This is the same role of government articulated in the Declaration of independence. This was the basic role of American government until the beginning of the twentieth century.
I'm not a libertarian. All Libertarianism says is that small government works, with no underling supportive moral code. So even their definition of rights is dubious. Libertarianism is a mix of hedonism and freedom. I'm not a fan.
"You are obviously a God hater. It's rare for people to be open about it."
ReplyDeleteI hate "god" as much as I "hate" Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy. LOL
It's pretty hard to deny that the bible indicates that "god" is going to gain the approval of "all" of his subjects through a process of mass extermination.
It's also pretty hard to deny that someone who believes, a) this is really going to happen, and b) it will be a good thing, is the here harboring the hatred.
I'm not the one here who believes any of this, or the one rooting for the annihilation of nearly everyone on earth. I'm not the one doing the hating here. All I'm doing is pointing out the inconvenient.
3.23 PM
ReplyDeleteYour point has already been debated here. It proved impervious to reason, so I pass.
How about observing the UCG fast by going to a nice buffet really fast!
ReplyDeleteConnie
ReplyDeleteI disagree. There is a formal/informal hierarchy in all human organisations. In a church setting, hierarchy does not give ministers the right to Lord it over members lives or beliefs. Think of car company as a analogy. There is a hierarchy which defines responsibilities. But the company does not lord it over employees faith or go snooping in its employees cupboards. The ministers are overstepping their boundaries and robbing members of their God given rights, which they deceitfully call 'administering Gods government.' They are power hungry thieving crooks. It's difficult to persuade people on this point, since ministers deliberately hide the concept of rights. It's treated as a taboo topic which robs it victims the comprehension to perceive the abuse.
Expressing it biblically, the ministers are robbing members of the talents that God gives to each person in the parable of the talents.
The problem is robbery rather than hierarchy as such.
ReplyDeleteThe UCG wants to fast its way into growing while sinning. The idea of ceasing to sin in order to grow is out of the question for the UCG. It wants to grow in its sins. This will not work. People in the world can sin freely elsewhere without putting up with all the godless UCG sinners and their nonsense.
It appears that God spit out all the splinters from the world wide church of God including the P.C.G.( Gerald Flurry )which God raised up to lead the Laodicean era of the church in spite of his problems . Satan has infiltrated the P.C.G. through Stephen Flurry and 25 Simon Magus ministers of (Ezk. 8 )leading the whole church away from God ! This is why God had to raise up the 2 witnesses to finish his short strange work.---- It also appears Mr H.W.A. taught 4% bible truths https://lightofthegentiles.com/herbert-w-armstrong/the-former-rain/ -------Mr.Flurry taught 22% bible truths-----https://lightofthegentiles.com/gerald-r-flurry/the-latter-rain/ --------The 2 witnesses for the past 3 1/2 yrs.has been teaching 74% new revelations from God.------https://lightofthegentiles.com/remembrancers/the-rain/ more new truths ----> https://plus.google.com/u/0/109629583007906794739 ---all splinters will have to join forces with the TRUE CHURCH OF GOD ----though it is registered as a foundation led by the 2 witnesses.
ReplyDelete(HERBERT W. ARMSTRONG REMEMBRANCERS AND KEEPERS OF GOD FOUNDATION) or (ARK OF GOD FOUNDATION )since there is no more church eras after Laodicea.--we must prove these things--ETERNAL LIFE IS AT STAKE.
https://plus.google.com/u/0/109629583007906794739 <--- new truths
ReplyDeletehttps://lightofthegentiles.com/remembrancers/the-rain/ https://lightofthegentiles.com/2017/01/22/gods-last-end-short-work/ GOD HAS RAISED UP THE WITNESSES FOR THE PAST 3 1/2 YRS.
ReplyDelete