Exit and Support has the following up:
We need to first understand that the observance of festivals in high demand groups is for the purpose of controlling members. It is much easier to have authority over someone if their lives are molded around the "church."
Leaders of totalistic groups have always taught that if healthy members didn't show up for the Passover service, they were gravely sinning and were in danger of "losing the Holy Spirit." To the contrary, the Scriptures show that the Holy Spirit and eternal life cannot be lost or taken away, and we are sealed the moment we place our faith and trust in Christ. (See John 14:16; John 10:28; II Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:13; 4:30)
Christ, our Passover, has already been offered. Therefore, to continue to observe the O.T. Passover is to say He never came.
Today many Christians observe what is called the "Lord's Supper" (often referred to as Communion), but the issue is not whether we do or don't observe a ritual and how often. It is about what Christ has already done for us and remembering that every day. He no longer holds our sins against us.
The Lord's Supper (excellent study; explains the Last Supper in the context of the Passover; also covers I Corinthians 11 in the 2nd message and how many people have twisted it today) (offsite link]
What about The Night To Be Much Observed?
Should Christians celebrate the Night to be Much Observed? Nowhere does the Bible tell Christians to observe this occasion.
WHAT?!?!?!? How on earth can I say that? It's a Night. To. Be. Much. Observed. The Bible clearly tells us to remember it. It's in the name, for crying out loud.
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How did Christ's original disciples spend the night after the Passover? Were they celebrating the night of this alleged observance, while their teacher's body lay in the garden tomb? It seems unlikely. There is no mention of a celebration that night, and John 20:11 tells us that Mary Magdalene was still weeping when she went to the tomb. The disciples appeared to be visibly upset when Christ met them on the road to Emmaus in Luke 24:17. Lavish food was the furthest thing from their minds.
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In short, the case for celebrating Herbert W Armstrong's Night to Be Much Observed is flimsy at best. Christians who honestly consider its alleged timing and symbolism may find it a tad distasteful. The COGs have us celebrate Christ's victory when His body was barely cold in the grave, yet they ignore the miracle of His resurrection. If were commanded to keep it, that would be one thing. But we aren't. It isn't even in the Bible.
MUST CHRISTIANS OBSERVE THE OLD COVENANT PASSOVER?
Were gentiles in Corinth observing the Feast of Unleavened bread?
Easter FAQ
Easter History part I
Easter History part II
Wayne Carver's Crucifixion Chronology - part I
Wayne Carver's Crucifixion Chronology - part II
...or have not removed every bit of learning from their homes
ReplyDeleteA friend told me how he agonized over a jelly jar that may have contained a breadcrumb. He said he decided to ditch the jar rather than risk the Lake of Fire.
The prayers in the Jewish "Search for Chametz" (leaven) routine contain an escape clause: any leaven, for what ever reason, that was not removed, would be declared "ownerless".
Comment was made saying: "It is almost Passover time in the various Churches of God. There abusive splinter groups are posting all kind so articles letting members know that their salvation is at stake of they take it improperly, miss it, or have not removed every bit of learning from their homes..."
ReplyDeleteThen the abusive splinter groups' leaders are preaching junk food to their listeners!
For one thing, 100% of the leaven will not be removed from their homes. Yet, they have been taught that they must put all leaven out, put all sin out of their lives.
If that is so, then how do those leaders/listeners accomplish that feat? The Bible says:
"He that committeth sin is of the devil..." I John 3:8
I guess the leaders/listeners are not too successful at getting that sin out, b/c the next comment seems to indicate that hardly anything changes from year to year:
"...They will soon gathering in high school gyms, union halls or Masonic Lodges to observe their solemn version of killing Jesus once again, where they will leave him till next year when they gather in the same room..."
What changes from year to year? It is almost like a United or Cogwa (choose any scattered group) member carries a FULL "Santa Claus bag" to Passover services and then magically walks away after services with an empty bag.........but then they're back again the next year with another FULL "Santa Claus bag" needing to be emptied. What's with that? This sounds like junk food!
Many years ago I heard a sermon about the subject of Christ our Passover where an interesting question was posed: if we all have free moral agency, free will, then why did Jesus Christ have to come to this earth to die?
If anyone has trouble getting to sleep at night, then think on that question!
Who would do such a thing in the first place?
Time will tell...
John
Where to begin? Why is this any sort of issue?
ReplyDeleteIt's the Lord's Supper, not the Passover. If Jesus were the Passover, then he would be killed and his blood shed for the Passover, so he couldn't -- even if he said he did -- have kept the Passovers with his disciples. He kept what we have termed the "Lord's Supper" the night before the Passover. The Lord's Supper is on the beginning of the day of the 13th of Nissan at the evening. The Passover is the 14th of Nissan (of if you prefer, since it's more technically correct, the first month). And by the way, if you read the Scripture accurately as it was written, the Passover begins the Days of Unleavened Bread. Just ask yourself what the word "until" mean. If you figure that out, you will be able to see that all the Armstrongists and the Church of God Seventh Day have it wrong, no matter what your calendar might be.
Moreover, there's quite another glaring problem that no one seems to want to address because it ruins absolutely everything. Sure, ignore it. You can't get by the fact that there simply was No Exodus! The Jews lied. Scripture has been broken.
The question is, why would you then keep these silly physical rituals when they simply don't mean a thing? Why? Isn't that being stupid? No exodus, no Passover. Period. God didn't deliver the Israelites from one darned thing. They never came out of Egypt because they never were in Egypt. How can you keep the analogy of something that doesn't exist? It's irrational.
Furthermore, any assumptions you may make about whatever practice Jesus would have you keep is completely irrelevant. Keeping the Night to be Much Observed is fruitless and silly, seeing that the Israelites didn't come out of Egypt and you're not going to observe anything except some sort of ceremonial meal that means absolutely nothing but nutrition for the body. Otherwise, it's a waste of time.
Those of you who are alcoholics worried about taking Passover wine don't have to worry now and don't have to attend with the CoG7 so you can use grape juice because the whole thing is unnecessary, as is washing clean feet. You don't have to bring nitrile gloves for sanitary reasons any more and you don't have to go to clean someone's clean feet.
Wrong times for fantasy science fiction events which never happened based on myths perpetuated by the Jews for $profit$ makes for a really dysfunctional religion. Anyone who claims ascendancy to become leader of some cult is rather powerless and has no backing from God or anybody else as an authority to lord it over people in his little worthless cult.
Why are we discussing this again?
Crazy nuts, this is.
In symbolism, Passover (one of the school teachers) is on the calendar once per year. In expanded, New Covenant application, every single day of the year is Passover for the followers of Jesus Christ.
ReplyDeleteBB
My thought are with the muslim illiterate guard at the coptic church earnin 80 dollars a month shooting at the violent attackers at the christian churches in Alexandria worshopping on Palm Sunday.
ReplyDeletePlease continue our luxurious discussions.
Nck
Thank you Nck.The Copts know what real fear and persecution are.Their fear is lived daily and is genuine.Their faith and hope for redemption is real.
ReplyDeleteThe cogs have no idea what persecution is.They major on the minors and egnore the weighter matters.
If all the "offerings" taken these holy days would go to the families of the victims of these appalling acts in Egypt that would be a true Passover "miracle ".
I fear for Pope Francis. We really ought to be praying for him. ISIS is crazy enough to attempt to take him out during his upcoming visit to Egypt! Imagine what that would cause in international geopolitics.
ReplyDeleteBB
To the contrary, the Scriptures show that the Holy Spirit and eternal life cannot be lost or taken away, and we are sealed the moment we place our faith and trust in Christ. (See John 14:16 ; John 10:28 ; II Corinthians 1:22 ; Ephesians 1:13
ReplyDeleteWow - talk about cherry picking scriptures ... what you accuse others of doing.
How do you dismiss Matt 7?
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
24 “Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock: 25 and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock.
26 “But everyone who hears these sayings of Mine, and does not do them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand: 27 and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it fell. And great was its fall.”
Does that sound like a guarantee? No, indeed. You will be judged by your works. And the works of this blog are indeed evil.
And, to the commentator above - there is indeed much evidence of the Exodus. But, you've already made up your mind.
Just for all of our edification, would you care to present your evidence of the exodus? I for one would like to see it.
DeleteBB
Got it, 4:27. Mistranslation. In your belief system, it should read "..........he who doeth all the things Herbie said were the will of the Father in heaven". Problem is, Herbie's understanding was skewed by the incest. That's why all his prophecies have failed. If he lied to us about 1975, what makes you think he's reliable with the scriptures. Seek better understanding. It's around if you can hang with it.
ReplyDeleteTo anon 4.27 pm,
ReplyDelete"And the works of this blog are evil."
No they are not.
This blog exposes the evil that is done in the name of God by the cog.It exposes the corrupt teachings and appalling abuse perpetrated by the ministry of the cog.Quote all the scriptures you want,but they can not hide the misdeeds and dark works exposed by this and many other webpages.
"But,you've already made up your mind."
"there is indeed much evidence of the Exodus"
ReplyDeleteReally? Where? History? Archeology? Science?
The only 'evidence' offered comes from the Jews who don't seem to believe it is any more than a fable, but are more than willing to use it to sell merchandise (and other things).
It took me quite a long time with a lot of research, but, if anyone would just look at Chronicles (as in the article), there can be no reconciliation in Scripture -- the Bible itself debunks the Exodus.
But this is only for honest people who are willing to go wherever the evidence takes them, people who are willing to weigh the scientific evidence and reject lies, fables and things that are just made up, like British Israelism.
People who make up their mind and refuse to accept evidence are liars and the worst lies are the ones they tell themselves.
"Just for all of our edification, would you care to present your evidence of the exodus?"
ReplyDeleteSo say we all!
Sorry. Have to go. The Cylons are attacking.
My opinion, for what it is worth:
ReplyDeleteIn 2017, in the COGs, Passover was according to the Calculated-Calendar on April 10, and on the Observation-based Calendar, April 12.
It is suggested that as there are calendars differences today there were calendar differences in the time of Christ.
Lk 22:7 Then came the day of unleavened bread [the 14th], when the passover must be killed.
Lk 22:8 And he sent Peter and John, saying, Go and prepare us the passover, that we may eat.
Lk 22:15 And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer:
On the calendar employed in Matthew, Mark and Luke, the Passover was killed between the evenings, that is, towards the end of Thursday April 6, AD30. The Passover was eaten after sunset, that is on the first day of Unleavened Bread [the 15th], according to the Synoptic calendar.
Jn 18:28 Then led they Jesus from Caiaphas unto the hall of judgment: and it was early; and they themselves went not into the judgment hall, lest they should be defiled; but that they might eat the passover.
On the calendar employed by John, Christ the Passover was killed between the evenings on Friday April 7, AD 30, and those who observed that calendar, ate their Passover, after sunset on Friday.
The first day of Unleavened Bread on John’s calendar was on Saturday April 8, AD 30 - hence that Sabbath was great as the first day of Unleavened Bread fell on the seventh day of the week in AD30.
That “between the evenings” is towards the end of the sunset-to-sunset day, not the beginning of the day, is suggested by Mt 14:15 with Mt 14:23:
Mt 14:15 And when it was evening, his disciples came to him, saying, This is a desert place, and the time is now past; send the multitude away, that they may go into the villages, and buy themselves victuals.
Mt 14:23 And when he had sent the multitudes away, he went up into a mountain apart to pray: and when the evening was come, he was there alone.
Not only did Christ fulfill the typology of Passover by not having his legs broken he was also killed between the evenings on the fourteen day of first month of the sacred calendar.
BB 5:30 PM
ReplyDeleteYou commented about the Exodus saying: "Just for all of our edification, would you care to present your evidence of the exodus? I for one would like to see it."
I found a videotape titled The Exodus Revealed-Search for the Red Sea Crossing and the book titled The Exodus Case by Dr. Lennart Moller to be very interesting.
If interested, you may research further the following information, which basically shows that people have been searching for Biblical evidence by going to traditional sites/areas of the Sinai Peninsular when the actual route and crossing was actually elsewhere.
I do have a "mini-transcript" of important points mentioned on the videotape, but it is more than 25,000 characters and is too long to post here (would take 7 pages). I may consider chopping out a lot of information to get the characters to about 4,000 or 8,000 and then post it, but I'd have to think and decide if I want to spend the time doing it.
Anyway, you may use the Internet to research the videotape and the book if interested.
The Exodus Revealed_Search for the Red Sea Crossing DVD Videotape
Produced by: Discovery Media Productions
Distributed by: QUESTAR, INC
P.O. Box 11345 Chicago, IL 60611-0345
Approx. Total Time: 3 hours with extras (Actual movie goes about 1 hour)
ISBN: 1-56855-736-1
www.questar1.com
An excellent, very worthwhile, Book exists with title of: The Exodus Case by Dr. Lennart Moller
John