Various Church of God prophets and apostles have claimed divine signs and wonders from their gods that they offer up as proof that they are legitimate conduits of their gods wisdom.
From William Miller to Herbert Armstrong and then on to Meredith, Pack, Flurry, Cox, Malm, Weinland, Thiel and many many others, these men all claimed their gods had revealed new truth to them as a warning to the church and the world. Hundreds of thousands of people believed them along the way. Their gods sent them signs, performed wondrous miracles and all kinds of magical tricks in order to impress the people that these men were legitimate.
All of this men made a habit of mocking Christians outside their groups. Other Christians are always wrong or are tools of Satan who uses them to deceive the world. They are always wrong while COG leaders are always right.
Almost-arrested, self-appointed, Elijah, Elisha, Amos, Joshua, Prophet, Apostle, future martyr, Mayan authority, Chief Overseer and the bitter "son" Rod Meredith ended up wishing he had never had, is currently attacking the Eastern Orthodox church because they claim signs and wonders in their church history as do Catholics and some Protestants.
They are all wrong, but Bitter Bob's own signs and wonders are not. The Church of God and his African members are supposed to believe that his god spoke to him in several dreams that set him apart as the new COG leader who was preserving 1st century Christianity. Then he trots out a couple people elsewhere in the world that also had dreams about him as proof of his legitimacy.
He also likes to claim the laying on of hands by Gaylyn Bonjour was a direct sign from his god that it was imparting a "double" shovel full of the Holy Spirit into his being. He and his African ministers are claiming direct spiritual wonders from their god that brought rain and performed other wonders recently.
The list could go on and on about the various signs and "proofs" he trots out to prove his legitimacy. The same goes for Pack, Flurry, Weinland, Malm and others. Their gods speak directly to them telling them many hidden things that the dumb sheep have never been able to see in scriptures. COG members are supposed to swallow their utterances without questioning.
Not one single thing these men have uttered is of spiritual importance to any Christian. Jesus is not coming to sit on Flurry's prayer rock. Jesus is not coming to Wadsworth to walk with Pack as they plan his third coming. Weinland and his loony wife are not going to be killed in the streets of Jerusalem and then rise again 3 days later. Malm's pharisaical whoredom to the law proves that he prefers the "ministry of death" to that of faith. And all of his prophetic predictions and prophecies are a steaming pile of crap.
None of these men are men of integrity and spiritual goodness. All these men do is prove that the Church of God is horribly screwed up.
ReplyDeleteRobert Theil's "prophecies" are so hedged with qualifiers,escape clauses, lame trend extrapolations...
I call him
"COGdom's Cautious Cassandra"
Could he actually predict future events under scientifically controlled conditions?.. No
ReplyDelete“All these men do is prove that the Church of God is horribly screwed up.”
I would not say that the Church of God is horribly screwed up.
I would say that the satanic imposter cults of the false prophets like Flurry, Pack, Weinland, and Thiel are horribly screwed up. Flurry, Pack, Weinland, Thiel, Malm, and so many others are all lying wonders.
Growing up attending Pentecostal/Apostolic churches all I ever heard and seen was "signs & wonders". I had seen "demons" cast out of people, I seen people "healed" of deformities, and I even heard prophecies about "future" events. One evangelist from Louisiana held a tent revival in Corinth, Mississippi making outrageous claims even predicting the "rapture" would happen winter of 1986. We all know how that played out.
ReplyDeleteDPR567, This forum is for x-wcg members not that stupid nonsense you posted. I'm sure if you surf the Web you will find a forum for x-pentecostal members.
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DeleteWell, the Armstrongist so-called Churches of God are FUBAR for sure.
ReplyDeleteThiel either believes his own crap, or he is attempting to establish his credibility to others by pointing towards these shakey factors. Thing is, it doesn't matter. Whoever assumes that he is what he says he is, and attempts to follow him, will end up worse off mentally, physically, spiritually, socially, financially, and emotionally.
BB
I recall being at the Feast of Tabernacles in Biloxi, MS in 1979. Herman Hoeh spoke there. I looked forward to his sermon with great anticipation. I expected an update on prophecy. (Already, the idea of a periodic "update" on supposedly inspired prophecy should raise some red flags.)
ReplyDeleteHoeh spoke and strongly suggested (leaving himself some wiggle room as I remember) that the Times of the Gentiles would be expired in 1982 and thereafter the End Time events would quickly ensue. We were looking at a horizon of just a few years for the Return of Christ. Electrifying.
None of this remotely happened, of course. And yet I remained a member of the WCG until 1995. And I heard of no mass exodus of the disillusioned from the WCG when events did not play out as Hoeh stated in 1979. Hoeh never released a retraction to my knowledge.
The question is why does failed prophecy not convince followers of the lack of integrity of the prophet and his/her theology? In my case, I believed at that time that the WCG was the true church but its members were sometimes weak. Hence, someone, even someone of importance, could make a mistake in prophecy. I believe others viewed it the same way so Hoeh's error, as large as the failure of 1975, was overlooked - I assume - I never heard anything else about it. The whole thing vaporized leaving the WCG intact - no crisis for anyone I knew.
This willingly beneficent attitude of those deceived works in favor of all the nouveau prophets who rise up(compare Trump). That is why this blog will never erode the base that supports these guys. We ex-Armstrongists view the words of the nouveau prophets as fixed but their followers view the words as fluid. Sometimes I think they even see prophecy as a kind of entertainment - like watching Ancient Astronauts on the History Channel - everyone knows it is not true but it is kinda fun. These ad hoc prophecies will fail and these nouveau prophets, like the artful dodger, will duck away unscathed to prophesy again. And they know it. That is why they are so bold in their error. It is for the momentary affect on their base, not us critics.
-- Neotherm
I think my mom summed up the typical church attitude, Neo, years ago when I was sharing with he about the corruption and failed prophecy. She stated "We're loyal to a philosophy, Bob".
DeleteIt's the same attitude that's associated with partisan politics. Democrats and Republicans give their favored guys a pass on horrendous infractions.
BB
The fruits of these leaders of the COGs bears witness to that of impatient men trying to get to themselves acclaim, renown and famousness. They seem to forget or not even care that their words and actions can't stand up to the light of the bible - the word of God. They try to cover up there mistakes by doubling down and then tripling down upon what they originally said, moving your thinking off of the flawed foundation of their original pronouncements unto the structure or superstructure of their latest inspiration. All is well right now especially when a future date is involved or a future of imminent happenings has the spellbound waiting with excitement. When a learned one questions the teaching, the leader brings out the government card. Obey the government and let Christ correct the error of doctrine they say. When one pushes a little harder and asks where they are getting all of [this], they claim it is by the Holy Spirit leading them into all truth. The answer to both of these defenses lies right in the bible which these men hold in their hands. Godly government only works upon a foundation of truth. Christ in his trial before Pilate, stated in a context about government; "Thou sayest I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. That scripture alone leaves these false government wielding leaders a little naked. To finish the stripping, lets answer the statement that they get all this via the Holy Spirit by asking a question. How does the Holy Spirit, which is the Spirit of truth (John 14:17;16:13) lead someone into error on the way to leading that person into some future truth? The answer to that is obvious to those here that are out of the COGs, but what about all the church attendees that visit and read here. When the light of the word of God is held unto these men, they are all naked with nothing more than vain words upon and about them.
ReplyDeleteComment was made saying: "...Jesus is not coming to Wadsworth to walk with Pack as they plan his third coming..."
ReplyDeleteThird coming? What means that?
I have no idea where Dave Pack got that thinking, b/c I don't read his writings, but he may have stumbled upon some truth. After Jesus Christ's murder and being in the grave for 3 days and 3 nights He was resurrected, went to visit His Father, and returned back to earth for a second time (second coming?) and hung around for about 40 days (John 20; Acts 1:3; I Cor 15:4-6) and was seen by hundreds of people.
Most turn a blind eye to that "second coming" and many today are looking for Christ's "second coming," when looking for a third coming would be more accurate.
Other than that Dave Pack spews out lots of "junk food" in the form of lies.
Hey, is Dave Pack "growing in grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ?"
Time will tell...
John
What About The Truth said: ".... When the light of the word of God is held unto these men, they are all naked with nothing more than vain words upon and about them..."
ReplyDeleteThat sounds a lot like the story of the Emperor who thought he was beautifully clothed, but in reality he was naked.
Sometimes these leaders believe they are God's little helpers, little henchmen, and they just want to be treated as and thought of as some god, to be number 1. That sounds like the thinking of another:
Isaiah 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
I, I, I, me, me, me, I, I .........all SELF!
Many human beings, especially professing "leaders," have a tendency to follow their father (John 8:44; I John 3:8; 2 Tim 2:26, etc.), whether they realize it or not.
The day approaches, although it is beyond the Mickey Mouse Millennium, that Satan's thoughts will perish along with his very being when he is taken and destroyed. Until that day comes we may expect human beings to have very similar thinking.
The One God says of Himself:
"For I lift up my hand to heaven, and say, I live for ever." Deut 32:40
The Word can't say that. Jesus Christ can't say that. Certainly, Satan can't say that either. Well, Satan can think and say that, but that vile, evil, thing will be taken and destroyed before all is said and done. God is for ever; Satan is only "for" without that "ever!"
Time will tell...
John