Dear Mr. Weston:I sat in church listening to you speak about church members who read and/or participate on “hate blogs.” I have been a member of God’s church for well over 40 years and have witnessed much of its growth and transformation into what we are today. I made the move out of the Worldwide Church of God during its apostasy from the truth into the Global Church of God when Mr. Meredith started it.With many of us that came over to the GCG were many ministers and elders. These men carried on in GCG just as they did in WCG. Many were still gracious and loving while many were also still as abusive and controlling as they were in WCG.Church members are sick of the abuses still going on and that is why we come to these so-called “hate blogs” to air our grievances and concerns. Concerns of which you seem to deliberately turn a blind eye to.My question to you Mr. Weston is, why after all of the many abuses and stories told here do you fail to do anything? You in essence have called all of us liars. You have been made aware of the things said here and cannot sit idly by any longer. Have you no integrity to do what is right and correct these abuses? God will certainly hold you accountable if you fail to do anything.
Name deleted by request
Well, don't hold your breath that Weston will do anything. His track record here in Canada proves he won't. Power corrupts.
ReplyDeleteDoing something about it would be improper posturing. They must place themselves above it all. And anyone who thinks otherwise is probably seen as Korah.
ReplyDeleteS.O.S.
BB
Anonymous LCG member, can you provide us with specific examples of ministerial abuse that you've personally witnessed? Not examples you've "heard" about, but witnessed on both sides of the issue? Names, dates, locations, etc.
ReplyDeleteLook at the other thread where a poster describes his conversation with Mr. Weston. The poster wanted to work at LCG HQ, but Weston said the poster was "not political enough" to survive and succeed there.
ReplyDeleteMr. Weston is now surviving and succeeding at LCG HQ. There's your answer.
From LCG's latest weekly update:
ReplyDeleteMr. Stafford gave a very moving sermon on “Seven Character Traits of the Late Dr. Roderick C. Meredith,” and how we must use his example and build these character traits as Christian soldiers.
How many inspiring examples does the Bible give us of men and women whose character traits we should emulate? As a Bible-believing church, LCG should know of at least a few Bible examples they can follow.
So, what do they teach their members? That they must follow Rod Meredith's example! It's cultish and unbiblical! Even if Rod Meredith had been a man known for his great holiness, it would still be far more seemly to point church members to the Bible than to their dead cult leader.
On the other hand, if we are going to honor dead cult leaders, shouldn't we first honor Mr. Herbert W. Armstrong? Let's look at Mr. Armstrong's own testimony, in his own writing, of twelve character traits of Rod Meredith:
• blind to self-will
• angry
• doctrinally correct
• blind to the spirit of God's law
• competitive
• harsh task-master
• rubs the fur the wrong way
• rank conscious
• covets power and authority
• unfit to lead God's Church
• repels people
• has a will to lead but lacks the qualifications
I wonder whether Mr. Stafford discussed more than one of those qualities? Or does Mr. Stafford consider himself a higher authority than HWA or the Bible?
Enjoy the cult you have inherited, Mr. Weston. I hope (but doubt) you will do something to change it for the better.
I have been a part of several splinter groups, since leaving LCG over 18 years ago. Thinking each one we went to, would be a better solution, we quickly found "the same ol', same ol' thing".
ReplyDeleteWhen we wrote a very nice letter to the head of the first group we found issues with, he quickly kicked us to the curb, but gave one rather enlightening thing we should do.....to find ANY minister to attach ourselves to rather than going it alone.
The second group, we quickly found men who hadn't liked what had happened to them in another splinter, formed their own, of course as ministers, and stridently protected their turf like ravenous wolves, all the while claiming they sought peace.
The last one, was a major head case, as we found out at a FOT we attended with them. This was my last straw, as I already knew that the source of the real problems with the overall COG, were the leadership, but I also began to question how was I ever so blind or stupid to keep following such a narcissistic, self serving and self righteous group of men, who hides behind a veil that if pulled back, quickly revealed who the true Pharisees are today.
Having a fair amount of experience with GEW, I also knew this would eventually come to a head, for anyone who started thinking for themselves and not embrace such a group think, lockstep approach that these charlatans have used to throttle us as God's people.
I always find it interesting that the Korah example is continually used as a tool to squelch rebellion among the people, and yet the actual group that was involved with Korah, were the Levites, people these same ministers of today love to find kinship with.
Ironically, they do have a lot in common with Korah, as well as the moneychangers Christ railed against, as they use the same tactics, wrapped in a cocoon of good ol' boys networking, that will NEVER say they are wrong, NEVER say they are sorry, and sadly NEVER admit they don't know everything, often just parroting the AC, 1984 type, of group think and group speak and group abuse.
RE: ANON AT 5:11 AM ...
ReplyDeleteThere is no greater sin ever than "Rubbing The Fur The Wrong Way" !!!
I think that we here may end up perpetuating these useless “tribute” or “nostalgia” groups. By critiquing them, we give them relevance they would not have otherwise. These are people who point to Satan, and his attacks to validate themselves. In a perverse sort of way, we galvanize some of the people who are nonchalantly doing what they do by rote or out of habit, and arouse their passions and a need to defend their leaders and to explain away their prophetic failures, and justify the general lack of ethics which Armstrongism has exhibited throughout its history.
ReplyDeleteReality? The church died the day that HWA expired.
BB
4.20 AM wants names, dates, locations. Give the man what he wants if you desire a 'midnight knock on your front door from the church SS Gestapo.' They have ways of making people recant, and intimidating their victims into silence and denial.
ReplyDelete4:20 am
ReplyDeleteHave you been smoking a little something? There have been numerous names mentioned on this blog and on Exit and Support with details of abuse. It does not take much effort to find this information.
Anon 4:20 AM asked:
ReplyDeleteAnonymous LCG member, can you provide us with specific examples of ministerial abuse that you've personally witnessed? Not examples you've "heard" about, but witnessed on both sides of the issue? Names, dates, locations, etc.
Certainly, I can, as can many others. But I have learned that people who are heavily invested in LCG won't believe anything I tell them, until they experience it for themselves and they then remember that others have reported similar experiences.
What really proves for me the moral bankruptcy of it all is that I watched as people were told that Ben Faulkner was a minister of Jesus Christ and shouldn't be criticized for what seem to be abuses... until HQ turned against him and suddenly all the old reports of abuse were true. The same could be said for Don Haney, who was perfect until he dared to speak out against HQ, at which point all of the old charges of abuse were deemed true. The same with Charles Bryce. And so on.
I could tell you that Rod McNair on a specific date told lies in a court deposition, but it wouldn't change your opinion. I could tell you that on a specific date he told a couple of lies in an HQ sermonette. I could tell you that on a specific date he accepted the word of a jealous and mentally unbalanced woman and used her testimony against innocent congregation members. And so on. Of course, as an insider, your opinion isn't really, "Rod McNair is innocent." As an insider, your opinion is, "Rod McNair must be protected until he is no longer useful."
And, you know what? It doesn't really matter anymore. LCG members are at this point getting what they want from their LCG experience. There is a kind of "spiritual masochism" fostered by LCG, where "endure to the end" becomes a slogan to mask members' feelings of depression and powerlessness. All we can do here is provide a safe space for the few who begin to break free of the mental slavery to which LCG has subjected them. We can't convince anyone of anything. All we can do is support and affirm, while dodging the trolls.
I posted this in the article where Gerald called this website a hate blog and so, I will repost some of it and add some details within the post. Also, my name is my real name. I am not using a fake name. My own story can be confirm by the police officer who they called on me and I have copies of all e-mails correspondence between myself and Gerald Weston. He even got a lawyer to sent me an e-mail. I was in LCG for over 10 years and mainly attended the Mississauga congregation while visiting the various congregations of Ontario from time to time. I won't be able to remember exact dates but year and month is possible. Names and locations, I remember for sure and so, if you wish to dispute this, up to you. I know many others who have similar stories. Some are still in the group, others are out. Either way, you are on the loosing end of the argument if you want to ask for specific. It is like the Sadducees who ask, "who is my neighbours?" when he wanted to justify himself. I have not been here for a while but recently, someone send me the article on Gerald slithering snake calling this place a hate blog and so, I am responding in kind now.
ReplyDeleteThis is the guy who never cared about poor brethren eating only a few fruits for lunch during the feast of tabernacles in Quebec Magog and when asked by a brethren about it, his only response was "this is terrible, someone should do something about it." Interesting since he and the other evangelists makes more then enough to help with someone's lunch but he expects other to help. This is the guy who knew that a brethren, Steve, was mentally unstable but was more concern about getting information from him about a former brethren who left (Noah) because Noah (lives in Toronto and now design webpage for others and has a successful business enterprise of sort) was posting bad stuff about LCG on facebook and he was a youth as well who had connections with other youth. He never cared about Steve Greco (currently lives in Windsor Ontario) who had mental health issues and who eventually ended up in the hospital.
This is the guy, the mighty blessed minister of God who needed to call the cop on me because he felt like I threatened him by e-mail. I basically laughed at the police. I knew he was just doing his job but I told him in no uncertain terms that Gerald got nothing on me. If he did, he would have taken me to court already given how much of a scumbag he is. He continued to sent me literatures even though I requested him to stop and so, I ended up calling that same police (got his name and badge number) to tell the Canadian headquarters to stop sending me literatures (Which they did stop after I called the police on them). Big bad secure Vladimir Weston unable to deal with a twenty four year old (at that time) young man. What a joke and this guy is now the presiding evangelist? Interfering with two young adults relationship (Mike Brown and Jessica James) because they were of different race/skin colour and even went through the parent of Jessica to do it instead of confronting them himself. Talk about having no guts.
This is the guy who needed to go to the Toronto congregation to criticize someone from the pulpit who attended the Mississauga (World Vision on Huron Ontario just one street light off the 401) congregation (The Garay family). This was back in 2009. The Toronto congregation had services at the Hampton Inn at 2:30pm at that time and this hotel is just right off of hwy 401 and on Warden street. Those brethren did not know because they were not there to hear it. Cursing the deaf comes to mind. Also, to criticize from the pulpit when there is no opportunities for people to defend themselves is underhanded and cowardly.
I will continue on another post because my HTML cannot be accepted since it is too long......
I am continuing from an earlier post since it was too long to be accepted.
ReplyDeleteA blind brethren named Charles Pond (formerly Ottawa congregation in Ontario, left in early 2013) braille machine was not working properly and the brethren there started a collection to help him buy a new one because it was expensive. Gerald intervened and stated that the collection had to be centralized when at first he opposed it entirely but changed his mind after some push back. Anyway, he eventually cancel the whole thing. What people do with their money on their personal basis is people's own business, not his. Even if Gerald is concern that defrauding was occurring, people have to use their own judgment to determine that and decide for themselves and if it ended up being a defrauding situation, people will learn from that as well. He also spoke evil of Charles at the Mississauga congregation from the pulpit. I was there. I am witness to all of it. If I had access to the Mississauga library for sermons in 2012 (Charles left in 2013 but the collection stuff was taking place in 2012), I can probably still find it.
These stories are nothing. They are honestly mild in comparison to other stuff that has occurred in LCG and WCG. Maybe some of you will say that these are not abuses. Fine. If that is how you wish to view it. These events only make some of us stronger. I am not here often because I have better things to do in my life without needing to worry about worthless individuals such as Gerald Putin and his gangsters buddies. So, be careful what you ask for. Specific can be given. I honestly have better things to do for the most part though. How about this, why don't you give specific about all the good things that the ministers has done for you, your family and other brethren who you know? Give specific. What have they done for those who left? Who were sick? Who are financially destitute? Who has doubts and questions about doctrines and beliefs (and kicking them out or telling them to keep their beliefs in private does not count)?
Anon 9:14 AM, You're mentioning all these names that involve many people and ministers, but did you personally witness ANY of it? Or, were you personally "abused" in some way by any of these particular ministers, so therefore can "vouch" for the so-called accusers statement? Did you witness, with your own eyes and ears, ANY of the "examples" being presented on this blog? And that doesn't include hearsay and what you read from the internet. Personally, I know MANY of the ministers and lay members and employees at HQ, spent significant amounts of time with them, with many of them being close personal friends, and not one of them come across as being the kind of person you say they are. Nor are they the type of person who simply "puts up with" any abuse from anyone so they can just "keep their jobs" or "make it into the Kingdom". Unless any of us have direct access to BOTH sides of whatever relationship we're making statements about, and ask BOTH sides what really happened, and WHY it may have happened, then everything that has been put out here on this blog is simply hearsay.
ReplyDeleteBig Brother is always right whether it is Big Brother Herbert or Big Brother Donald or Big Brother Vernon.
ReplyDeleteThere is no process in an autocratic organization that leads to self-reform. That is because the leader is always right. And the leader's inherent rectitude trickles down to all of the little leaders from this one big leader. Everyone is a part of the chain of overweening authority except the lowly lay member whose salvation can be placed in peril in the twinkling of a tyrannical eye.
So autocracy holds sway and error accumulates and thrives. There is no forum for anything except worship of the leader. After all, he is chosen by God just like Herbert was as he sat in the public library in Des Moines receiving the direct instruction of Jesus Christ via William Miller.
And this lack of ability to self-reform is why there is a proliferation of so many, many Armstrongist fragment churches. When someone discovers something wrong, the only solution they have is to start a new church.
@ 10:22 AM, you sound like an LCG minister, so I assume that you know your LCG counseling techniques very well. If someone has only heard of an abuse, you can dismiss it because his story is not firsthand and must be assumed false. However, if someone dares to claim that he experienced or witnessed abuse by God's Ministers, the claimant is by definition bitter and under Satan's influence, so his story can be dismissed.
ReplyDeleteAlso, you are making the classic cultist/insider mistake when you write, regarding the LCG HQ staff:
not one of them come across as being the kind of person you say they are. Nor are they the type of person who simply "puts up with" any abuse from anyone so they can just "keep their jobs" or "make it into the Kingdom".
Only a brainwashed cult member feels bound to defend all of his leaders with such absolute statements. If you aren't brainwashed, you are implying that your HQ friends are brainwashed, as people in the real world display a normal range of emotions and attitudes. Even at its peak, WCG had some tares in high places. Same with GCG. Same with UCG and COGWA. Why would you expect LCG to be any different, unless your brainwashing goes very deep?
Also, if you really are an insider, remember the different criticisms Rod Meredith would acknowledge privately when he compared Charles Ogwyn and Wyatt Ciesielka -- each of them a minister "in good standing" in Charlotte, but each one deeply flawed. Rod could be blunt about each man's faults, but he preferred to manage one man's flaws rather than the other.
Ultimately, nothing posted here will change anyone's mind. All we can do is post from our hearts, and when someone has a first-hand experience he can come her and discover that he is not alone in his experiences.
Anon 12:16, You are as I suspected. You have zero credibility when it comes to vouching for the accuracy and authenticity of the many accusations about LCG ministers and HQ staff because you have not personally witnessed anything or spoken to any of the people involved. I'm beginning to suspect you're not even in LCG. You're either just someone with an axe to grind or a complete fraud of a person. If you are in LCG, then people like you make me sick. Playing the hypocrite, pretending to be a team player and playing church for appearance sake. Sure, you stick around LCG "hoping" things change for the "good", all the while spreading unsubstantiated allegations about people you publicly support by your attendance at church services and other LCG functions, if indeed you are who you say you are. Pathetic. Even people who hate their jobs eventually, over time, either quit outright or find another job and then quit. Their frustrations and anger and distaste will finally be cured with new surroundings. I suggest you do the same.
ReplyDeleteIt really doesn’t matter who the apologists believe. We all know that being a member of an ACOG is its own punishment. Let the dead bury the dead.
ReplyDeleteBB
To the LCG defender anon:
ReplyDeleteI didn't personally witness the holocaust. Does that mean it didn't happen?
When enough people have the same experience and share that experience it tends to be valid.
We aren't talking about one or two people being bullied and abused at the hands of LCG ministry, we are talking about MANY people and abuses that have happened over and over again.
Please, continue to stick your head in the sand and live you dream that LCG isn't corrupt and not even on the short list of potential options for "God's True Church".
Just because YOU deny that these things didn't happen doesn't mean they didn't.
Just because the specific people who have access to 1st hand knowledge of dates and times either don't frequent this blog or have chosen not to comment doesn't mean that Rod Meredith, Rod McNair, Gerald Weston and others haven't done horrible things to good people.
I will pray for you. I was once just as blind as you are. I used to tow the LCG line. I completely understand where you are emotionally and intellectually.
It's hard to acknowledge reality when it goes against everything you have been brainwashed to believe.
LCG is full of wickedness and corruption. There is no way it is God's church and you are soooo invested in it.
The good news is that there is still time for you to stop worshipping men and start worshipping the Giver of Life and Breath.
The irony of anon 10:22 is mind-blowing!!!
ReplyDeleteLCG ministers "counsel" and "correct", hell in some case even disfellowship members on rumors and hearsay of things these minister "NEVER PERSONALLY WITNESSED".
If it's good enough for them, it's good enough for me.
2 Corinthians 13:1
ReplyDeleteI don't have to have personally witness the crap that goes on in LCG.
LCG has established a pattern of bullying and abusing its brethren.
It's rampant and repeated.
@ Not-so-Anon LCG HQ poster 4:37 PM...
ReplyDeleteThank you for illustrating LCG's application of leaving the 99 to go after the 1. In LCG, this means ministers letting the 99 sip on spoiled milk while they attack the 1.
Feel the fear in 4:37PM's message. He tells us that everything is wonderful in LCG, then he complains about a two-faced member who feels pressured to keep up a false "happy face" in order to get along. Well, which is it? Are there false-faced members who pretend to be your friend and then run to the ministry, or the hate blogs, to betray you with their tales?
ReplyDeleteLCG Minister,
ReplyDeleteIf you are really interested in righting an abuse, why not start with the Scarboroughs? While it is true that only their side of the story was posted here, due to extremely similar FIRST HAND experience, I doubt nothing that they say. Even if they had some sort of an issue worthy of expulsion, why were they not counseled about it prior to punishment in accordance with Titus 3:10? Why did they have to plead and beg and even sue asking for this basic premise only to be repeatedly ignored? If you really want to change things, start with following that basic Scripture and start with them.
The experience I have first hand information followed such a familiar pattern as the Scarboroughs that I was shocked when I read about them because the experience was so familiar - zero credibility given to members but the ministry given full backing. What I saw was right out of I Timothy 5:19, however two of the people involved were kicked out instead of the minister who was clearly in the wrong. And the people kicked out were never given an official reason (in violation of Scripture), and no amount of begging, pleading, or apologizing made any difference.
You ask for specifics, but no one here is going to identify themselves because they all know that the probability of fairness is essentially zero and the probability of repercussions is almost assured. If you want to make a difference, start with the Scarboroughs, and if not, then post your reasons here why. Post why you would not reach out to them (Luke 15). Even if they decide to stay where they are at, and even if they deserved to be expelled, they also deserved to be told why and they deserved to be counseled, which they were denied.
I have other FIRST HAND experience of church abuse I still personally suffer from and would like to see rectified, but let's start with them first (although I have no connection with them personally).
J
@ 6:17 AM
ReplyDeleteWhat many members do not understand is that a minister's wife was involved with Elizabeth Scarborough in several of the same activities for which Elizabeth was shamed, yet that minister's wife is still a member in good standing while the Scarboroughs were pushed out of LCG. That alone is reason enough for many members to "lay low" about this and similar injustices, because they have seen for themselves the difference in LCG "justice" as applied to ministerial families vs. member families.
Anon 9:55 - Did you see with your own eyes the minister's wife do the thing you say she did? Or is that just what you heard?
ReplyDelete@ 10:45 AM, you sound like Rod McNair trying to figure out whether I attended the congregational event at which Elizabeth and Cathrine and one other lady performed a song that Bob League approved but later called inappropriate. You sound like Rod McNair trying to figure out whether I was at the "Toga Party" with Elizabeth and Cathrine and others. You don't care about the facts of the matter. You are just trying to identify and silence a source.
ReplyDelete5:09 AM wrote:
ReplyDeleteLCG ministers "counsel" and "correct", hell in some case even disfellowship members on rumors and hearsay of things these minister "NEVER PERSONALLY WITNESSED".
Rod McNair has done this more than once. I know firsthand of more than one case in which he got a piece of juicy gossip from an unstable or ambitious source, then took it to RCM before checking it out fully. You see, RCM taught (and Rod McNair believes) that Matthew 18:15 does not apply to the ministry. This means that some grave injustices have been done because Rod McNair didn't get the facts properly.
One of my AC buddies was ratted on for regularly seeing a divorced woman from the church. The rat failed to provide the additional helpful information that the woman was elderly, was going blind, and my bud would go to her apartment to read the Bible and Plain Truth to her. And, during the timespan that I knew him, he certainly never expressed any Oedipal urges. People who rat are usually hearing a radically different drum.
DeleteBB
So a minister can get on the podium tell members not to contact someone without specifics as to why, members sheepishly obey without question but yet the LCg defender wants facts and details, bawahaha that is hilarious. Cult mentally.
ReplyDeleteMy father was a fulltime paid minister in WCG, and an elder in UCG. The stories from others passed on about sexual abuses in the church are staggering. There are many written about online as well.
ReplyDeleteIt seems that if you had to "personally witness" every act to be considered the truth, then I guess you can't believe many of the books of the bible either, as many stories are written by people that weren't there.
To my experience. The most recent was a friend of mine was kicked out our local congregation. The minister told the congregation one story (I recorded it), when I asked him on the phone what happened and why was my friend kicked out, he told a different story. (I recorded this as well) and when I asked my friend what the minister told him, it was again, a third different story.
To many people they wouldn't care about being kicked out, but this has been hard on many people, and it was done with lies and deceit.
My personal experience has been my child was attacked by a sexual predator, and the minister and elders supported the pervert over us, so we didn't attend there anymore. I regret this, and if I could have done things again, I would have stood up and accused that man in front of everyone and shamed the ministers and elders in front of everyone.
I personally suffered physical and sexual abuse at home, having a minister for a father didn't protect me from this, I think it even made it worse, as the physical abuse was based on "tough love" and the common teachings from HWA on parenting. I was told by my father "you have to break a child like you break a horse". (I think this is a quote he got from GTA)
I have personally talked with people that had sexual advances made on them by the minister. Another (a child in the church at the time) experienced witnessing incest at the ministers house between their children, with multiple witnesses. There were even worse beatings in his house than in mine, and his family members are more disturbed than mine.
I was a suicidal young teen with no hope for the future. "the world can't go on for even another 10 years" was the refrain I heard my entire childhood.
Read the stories online about a UCG elder sexually abusing the members in a congregation in the east coast some where in the last 10 years, and nothing was resolved because head quarters sided with the elder. ("I know this man, he'd never do anything like that" from Richard Pinelli). Finally almost the entire congregation just left.
I have relatives that were at Ambassador college that knew about the sexual escapades of GTA, their friends had slept with him. GTA bragged about his conquests.
I knew about HWA's incest issues when I was a young child, when I was a teen I asked my father (again, a full time minister running a congregation) about this, and he didn't deny it. He simply said "If Mr. Armstrong repented of it, God will forgive him".
To top it all off. I had multiple family members that were full time paid ministers. One was a paedophile that died in prison. Guess who he preyed on, church kids.
I met more perverted and vile kids at the feast than I ever did at public schools. And my own experience pales by comparison to many others.
The corporate based churches of God are on a foundation of sand. Those that follow God in truth and seek him and his kingdom, and his righteousness will eventually wake up and find others of like mind when everything falls apart around them. And if not, I hope God has mercy on them in some way.
R. Roberts
Anon 9:55 - Did you see with your own eyes the minister's wife do the thing you say she did? Or is that just what you heard?
ReplyDeleteFebruary 27, 2018 at 10:45 AM
My comment: YES! One event was at Spokesman's Club Ladies night at a country club in Mint Hill which was attended by scores of people including me. Another event was a party attended by approximately 25 LCG brethren who all witness it 1st hand (including me).
I was also at the July 4th BBQ at Patrick and Elizabeth's house mere weeks before they were marked from the pulpit. Funny thing is that Rod McNair, Jim Meredith, Wyatt Ceiseilka, Charles Ogwyn and other LCG headquarters ministers were there grilling and drinking beer freely like they were BFs with the Scarboroughs. I have wondered for years how they went from brethren to "enemies of the church" so quickly!
They were so clearly plotted against and lied about. Nobody goes from churchy-church favored status to enemy status that quickly...
I hear they are in COGWA now. I hope they are happy there and I hope they prosper. For one because they are nice people. And for two because it makes Rod McNair look like the jerk he is. I'm sure McNair was hoping they would fall off the face of the earth and out of the COG. Every day they stay makes him look more and more like the evil, lying tyrant he truly is.
"It really doesn’t matter who the apologists believe."
ReplyDeleteIt really doesn't matter what you claim to believe either because only a fool would listen to it.