Did you know that Herbert Armstrong had a scientific mind and was so advanced that modern-day Creation Science folk believe what they do because of him. Not only was he a great theologian but he was a scientist too! This is from a COG blog I was on in 2007 that helped formulate this blog three years later.
This is from a group that idolizes everything that HWA did.
The church was in such sad shape by the 1920s with much truth lost, that God needed to revive it. What HWA was - was intellectually honest. As HWA researched, information came from many different sources, not just religious groups...but science journals etc. He was one of the first men I've ever seen publish the idea that the geologic column was based on circular reasoning (in his Autobiography). That is now a widely publicized belief of the Creation Science crowd.Someone actually believed that Herb was ahead of his time regarding scientific research! 1880-1940's research as scientific, up to date and modern? Not a chance! When Herb got his sex education material out of books from the late 1800's and passed them off as new and relevant it shows that he was not scientific by any stretch of the imagination. Besides that, the Creation Science crowd are not scientific and still rely on mythology and silly reasoning to come up with its teachings.
The person who called HWA a scientist also said this:
We have all seen very clearly that when someone dismantles the truth (as the Tkach's did) it was like pulling a thread that kept unravelling more truth.If Armstrongism was the truth, it would have never unravelled when Tkach pulled the plug on all of the heretical teachings. The greatest thing about the unravelling is that it can NEVER recover into anything meaningful!
I have seen people debate, tear down, and set themselves up as biblical scholars and they never arrive at the solid building HWA was able to build.So where exactly is the solid building that HWA built today? With hundreds and hundreds of splinter groups trolling society with sheer nonsense, how can any of them claim they rest upon a sure foundation?
This is called "Buying into the Lie" for those who believe this bullshit.
ReplyDeleteThe creation of myths about various group leaders builds a legacy of lies and deceptions. George Washington was made into a god by the following generations. Joseph Smith was called a prophet because he could read magical tablets by looking into a hat. Now we have a high school dropout who studied enough to become a scientist by time spent at the Portland library.
Creating a legacy through lies should be left to liars and the mentally ill. Of which group this individual belong's one can only guess. In the end, Armstrong's lasting legacy will be "the man who stuck his penis into his daughters vagina."
No amount of lies and magical thinking will ever change this. The man was a sexual deviant.
You could probably make a stronger case for Herbie being a Scientologist!
ReplyDeleteHe denied or did not know that acidic vegetables would break down the aluminum in aluminum cookware. He believed that clay containing radium had healing properties. And as we now know, he had no concept of genetics, linguistics, or genealogies, all of which play against British Israelism. He totally bought into Alexander Hislop and Immanuel Velikovsky.
Granted, HWA and GTA both selectively presented certain scientific facts, the ones which tended to support the Armstrongist belief system, but they rejected the facts which played hardball with that system.
HWA was not a scientist. He was a proof-texter who used science only when it supported his teachings. It seems self-obvious that he was a poor judge or arbiter. Everything was carefully crafted to lead his followers to guided conclusions. That is not intellectual honesty, it is a scam.
BB
Blue clay, yes. Oh, it heals, alright. The radium kills the bacteria and lessens inflammation... while it poisons you.
DeleteHerb built a church that stripped its members of their personal autonomy, and held together by terror religion - our way or into the tribulation you go. It was a religious gulag.
ReplyDeleteHow stable can any organisation be if it is in conflict with mans natural rights?
Blaming Joe T, as many do for the unraveling, is a cheap cop out.
SCIENCE FROM HWA ---
ReplyDelete(commenting on what it takes to live to be 100 years old)...
"Just one thing every centenarian did, yet none gave it any credit. Every one had taken a daily rubdown, either with a bath towel after a daily bath or with a massaging brush of some sort.
I was impressed by that, I have followed the daily rubdowns after a daily shower with near-perfect regularity every since. "
So go ahead, drop your gym membership, and start smoking cigars! It is the daily rubdowns that do the trick!. Our friend, Dennis Diehl is helping to promote the regimen with his professional massages as well!
Wasn't there one where it was said that you can't catch a cold? Wasn't it supposed to be built up carbohydrates or something? I used to notice that all the people in the office must have had their carbohydrates all built up the same time when colds went around. Was it Rod Meredith that said don't drink with your meals? How many people gagged on their suppers with that one?
DeleteThese people who I will call "Herbologists" only see the things want to see, and hear the things that they want to hear to make their own kind of "Herbert Patties". that appeal to the Herb Addicts. They literally have a kind of a "Herbertizer" to make things seem a way that in reality they are not, kind of like a "herballucination."
ReplyDeleteThe "Herbertizer" has some unique abilities. Once a Herbologist uses this Herbertizer, It distorts, twists, and shapes raw information into specialized "Herbert Patties". Then the Armstrong Person comes along and seasons it with HerbaSalt and HerbaPepper. This isn't the REAL Salt and Pepper - it's carefully blended to look like the real thing, but it is far from the real thing.
Once you take the "Herbert Patties", seasoned with HerbaSalt and HerbaPepper, the Herbologists then are ready to present their Herbert Patties to their eager and willing audience. They eat it up, because they have been addicted to Herbert Patties for decades. They think it is delicious, tasty and good, and are so eager to present it to all.
But everyone out there knows what the ingredients are. They know that the ingredients in the Herbert Patties they are addicted to are harmful. They never live up to the promises of the real ingredients. They're disgusting and toxic. But the effects of the Herbert Patties after long term use are delusions, illusions of grandeur, a distorted sense of reality, greed, paranoia, intense ego, an aversion to emotion, a false love, and hyper-legalism.
Those of us that stopped eating the Herbert Patties can see the effects that they had. Those who keep using the Herbert Patties are blinded to their effects.
****
It is hard to believe that these people put so many titles on Herbert Armstrong. He was no scientist. He was simply an advertising con-man who had the ability to take bullcrap and make it look and taste like chocolate frosting. All of his hirelings added so many untrue addictive things to it that everyone ended up paying MILLIONS for the crap. And many still try to pedal it today.
Herb and Tkach were both liars. Neither should be regarded with respect or as the solution to anything.
ReplyDelete... the Creation Science crowd are not scientific and still rely on mythology and silly reasoning to come up with its teachings.
ReplyDeleteAs does the scientific establishment.
Don't drink with your meals? At the last supper, did they not have both bread and wine?
ReplyDeleteSay What ?!?! Who the hell ever said he was a scientist must have been high or just plain drunk.
ReplyDeleteAccording to Wikipedia, the first sentence description of a scientist is: A scientist is a person engaging in a systematic activity to acquire knowledge that describes and predicts the natural world.
ReplyDeleteI would say that according to that sentence he would have to be considered a scientist. He certainly acquired knowledge and dispensed that knowledge in most every book, magazine and television program describing a Satan led world full of corruption, poverty, squalor, crime and war that had no knowledge of the true God. He then predicted what would be the outcome of the present world before the arrival of the Kingdom of God.
You could also say he got pretty close to being a true prophet for one event when six months before his death he said: A final personal word. In a few days I will be 93 years of age. For some years now, there have been some, like vultures, waiting for me to die. They would like to come back and take over the leadership of the Church in my stead. I have been deeply concerned about this, but in no sense worried. This is the Church of God, not of any man. Jesus Christ is the living Head of this Church. I am not.
And Jesus Christ will never receive any of those who have gone out to draw a following after themselves to come back and lead God's Church into Satan's liberalism. (June 24, 1985).
History and present events of the greater COG's bear witness to much greater acts of extremism than just embracing Satan's liberalism.
James
ReplyDeleteWhy mention George Washington in a otherwise excellent post. He was a virtuous man who warned of potential government tyranny. I think he is more honored than looked upon as a god by those who believe in limited government.
Stalin or Mao would have been a better choice.
James is probably referring to the mythical stories about and false/modified quotes attributed to Washington.
DeleteThere are two kinds of scientists.
ReplyDeleteThose who have earned a degree in a specific field. Think Mayim Bialik (Also an actress, she plays Amy Farrah Fowler on Big Bang Theory). She has EARNED a Ph.D in neuroscience. She is the true definition of a scientist in every sense of the word. Scientists have degrees and credentials - they know what they are talking about.
Then there are those who do not have degrees. The most common are the "Amateurs". They may know the skill very well - but they have not obtained their degree. This does not indicate necessarily that they do not know their stuff. It means they haven't proven that they do not know their stuff - these types can't obtain employment.
Then there is the other type. This is the "Amateur" that thinks they know their stuff but does not. They obtain a B.S. in their science. I'm not talking about Bachelor's of Science, either.
People may try to consider Herbert a "scientist" in the strictest letter of the law. And in the strictest sense, anyone who tries to learn about how things work in this world are rudimentary scientists, just like kindergartners are students, albeit how elementary. But to try to put him in the level of genuine scientists is simply stupid and insane. Herbert's version of science was:
"I read this book. That book said this. I know better than this. Therefore that book is wrong. This is how I prove it wrong. Now I tell the world that book sucks and I am right in the most convincing way possible via advertising skill."
That's not science. That's just being a pompous ass.
9.47 PM
ReplyDeleteI worked many years in engineering. I have met and worked with graduates with 4 year engineering degrees who could not think. Some were straight out of university, while others were not. I had to 'hold their hand' and do everything for them. These are called 'paper engineers' for good reason. So having a degree/doctorate in science does not necessarily mean one is a true scientist.
True scientists are not anti-intellectual, either. HWA had earned that label for himself early on. He placed himself above the real intellectuals, embracing and teaching ridiculous conspiracy theories instead.
ReplyDeleteIt is not difficult at all to impeach HWA, to find him wanting in terms of truth, humanity, and personal morality. He did rise to a level of accomplishment that no splinter leader has been able to attain, or appears capable of attaining. The core problem is that his “dumb sheep” were programmed to single source all knowledge and wisdom and information to him, and to pattern their lives after him, when even scripture tells us that wisdom is found in a multitude of counsel. HWA placed himself above testing and peer review. So engrained was his vaunted status in the minds of church members that they even trusted him in medical matters and died of totally curable conditions, while he availed himself of the best and latest in medical science.
This quote from the idolatrous group is indicative of the remaining naivety amongst the stalwarts even today, and in spite of all the things that have come out and that we now know. So long as people continue in this line of thought (willful ignorance) there will be Armstrongites.
BB
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ReplyDeleteShe has EARNED a Ph.D in neuroscience. She is the true definition of a scientist in every sense of the word. Scientists have degrees and credentials - they know what they are talking about.
ReplyDeleteThat statement is disturbing and shows way too much faith in the system. The fact is that you can have a Ph.D and still be a crappy scientist. You can even have a Nobel prize and be crappy, or even worse, be full of crap. There are actually books written about some of the bogus Nobel prizes in the hard sciences. The people who write these books are Ph.Ds in the same specialties, they are not idiots.